Core Rev F3 Skill (Your ideas)

[SoulGuardian.6203]

I think the Rev core F3 skill is a little basic and bland.

When the "Trade-Offs" were mentioned by ANet, And if my memory doesn't fail me, the devs also said this would be improved in the future.

So, I'd like to hear your ideas/suggestions/Requests about this skill.

How would you change or improve F3 skill?

 

[nosleepdemon.1368]

Give us 10 seconds of resistance 😄

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

Not sure what to give revenants other than a complete rework at this point since nothing about them these days fits or works well. The whole idea of tradeoffs just falls flat on its face since revenants are being gutted from multiple vectors at this point, all on the notion we get faster recharges for it.

+ We get faster recharges

- Hellacious energy cost

- Inability to choose what skills we want on our bar

- Forced to stance swap so we might even be out of energy for critical moments as needed.

- Weapons that have only one role as they were designed around a concept of one legend instead of the entire kit.

- Damage is middling for all the tradeoffs.

- Lose out on racial skills and abilities (minor)

I think ANet is clearly struggling at this point on what to figure out to do with revenant. It's why I think a rework is on the horizon. Core revenant is considered one of the worst core professions, if not the worst, and pretty much anyone not in an elite spec is considered trolling when they are level 80 at this point. Further feel this considering the half baked rework Herald got that essentially forces the Herald into stance dancing and slapping healing support heralds in the face (not to mention barely touching renegade and vindicator both of whom need help too).

Edited September 10, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[SoulGuardian.6203]

20 minutes ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Not sure what to give revenants other than a complete rework at this point since nothing about them these days fits or works well. The whole idea of tradeoffs just falls flat on its face since revenants are being gutted from multiple vectors at this point, all on the notion we get faster recharges for it.

+ We get faster recharges

- Hellacious energy cost

- Inability to choose what skills we want on our bar

- Forced to stance swap so we might even be out of energy for critical moments as needed.

- Weapons that have only one role as they were designed around a concept of one legend instead of the entire kit.

- Damage is middling for all the tradeoffs.

- Lose out on racial skills and abilities (minor)

I think ANet is clearly struggling at this point on what to figure out to do with revenant. It's why I think a rework is on the horizon. Core revenant is considered one of the worst core professions, if not the worst, and pretty much anyone not in an elite spec is considered trolling when they are level 80 at this point. Further feel this considering the half baked rework Herald got that essentially forces the Herald into stance dancing and slapping healing support heralds in the face (not to mention barely touching renegade and vindicator both of whom need help too).

I agree with what you said.

Rev is one of my favourite classes and think they do have gone "soft".

They do need a major rework from the ground up.

Maybe not in its entirety, mind; but as you said: Having to switch weapons, and legends can be a little overwhelming sometimes; especially when weapons are tied to certain legends.

This is one of the major points that should be reworked.

Then, there's the issue with core F3, Shiro's healing skill is imo the worse healing skill in the entire game; and also imo Jade Winds should be swapped with impossible odds.

I really, really, strongly feel that if the Elite skill is the one where you become the legend, then most certainly Impossible Odds should 100% be the elite skill.

Certain weapons, such as the staff feel old and clunky. I get more satisfaction from old soul reaver 1 on the ps1, in which you can use almost every level stave as a weapon than our Rev staff.

This is just a comparison. 

Kaila utility skills look so poorly designed.

Feel lazy and rushed.

I love the short bow, but the legend theme?

Just meh.

Still don't like vindi dodge... some people find it very effective. It's just a matter of getting used to it.

I find it really strange and annoying, and more of a handicap. 

Vindis are always the first to get caught in battle in wvw.

They very rarely escape a squad coming towards them.  Good on 1v1. Terrible against everything else.

These are just some of the things that this class could do with improving. 

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

I agree with that. I mean if we have to keep the legends thing I would think get rid of the swapping. Let us be able to mix and match the two legend skills we can have active instead of stance swapping that way we can actually have a much needed utility for the moment.

Give revenants another method to build energy instead of standing around with our thumbs up our butt and not attacking. Perhaps on the 1 attack have it be 10 energy being a percentage based around how many attacks the 1 does per second, so if the attack is 3 attacks per second it's 33% or 3.3 energy each attack. Or better yet have each skill refund some energy if it does the thing it is designed to, for instance if you CC an enemy you get energy based on how many you CC or such or better yet if you dodge an attack you get energy.

Reduce the hefty energy cost of several skills. Jade Winds costing 50 energy is ridiculous, and you're right, should not be an ultimate power. Slap a longer recharge on it but I don't want to be forced to choose a CC to actually contributing for the next 10 seconds.

Ancient Echoes should be on ALL profession kits, not just core. Probably the only good thing in core revenant right now.

Vindicator is my most loved profession but it needs something. It's suffering an identity crisis and lacks boon support, and honestly I think the skills vindicator gives should be decided through the traits not a mini stance swap on a stance swap, with potential ability to mix and match them even.

Renegade wells are still underwhelming a lot of times, and mine still get knocked down or even killed which is quite awkward (and still no team assisted reviving or finishing like a scrapper well can do). ANet give renegades a well that can revive teammates and finish foes.

 

Right now considering revenants identity crisis for the entire profession and not just core or its elite specs I am struggling to figure out what scepter will even do for us. Each weapon is tied to a legend, which also hurts the design freedom of the class on its own. Scepter does not scream at me anything outside of secretly giving revenants a new legend, and I still can't imagine what it will do (other than being for glint since shield on its own is terrible). I would have preferred a dagger because that would have fit Shiro and maybe Malyx stance (not to mention fit the image of the Revenant wielding a dagger they have for the background of the forums) but I am struggling to think what a scepter will do except be another condition stick weapon, maybe dual natured healing. Hell, would like a mesmer legend for once but since they seem to be avoiding more elite specs the whole core of revenant is kind of getting tossed.

Edited September 10, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Za Shaloc.3908]

I assume you're talking about Ancient Echo, right? I think the 25 energy is great across the board and in itself makes it a nice button to press. In terms of the power level of each legend-specific effect...

-Ventari: Really great. Perfect choice for the legend. For QoL purposes, it would be nice if the Tranquil effect could stack so you can use it immediately upon swap without blowing your other Tranquil charge. 

-Jalis: Very fitting for the legend and impactful in PvP/WvW. If memory serves me correct, it doesn't benefit from the condition damage reduction if you have Versed in Stone traited which is a shame, but don't quote me on that interaction as I never run the trait.

-Shiro: Pretty neat and can be really impactful in particular with Jade Winds or another CC skill. However, it applies a separate buff from the unblockable from Phase Traversal, and they both get consumed together on each hit. That should be fixed. In general too, Rev has so many multihits so it can be hard to take advantage of the unblockable. Would be nice if maybe Impossible Odds doesn't consume an unblockable stack. 

-Mallyx: Extremely meh. Was fine before the resistance rework when resistance was omega OP, but now it's the most lackluster of all the legends in terms of its potential impact. Would prefer it to do something like transfer conditions on your next X strikes, grant FULL condi damage immunity, or something with more offensive impact. 

If we're gonna talk about things that the skill may not really need, but I'd like anyways, I'd like for Ancient Echo to ALSO grant a unique boon for each legend. Mallyx's could stay as resistance (in addition to a unique effect like what I listed above), Ventari could get regen, vigor, or prot, Jalis could get stab, and Shiro could get quickness. Why? Well tbh I just think it'd be cool and would give further incentive to play core Rev. I really dgaf that core will never be meta in PvE and I don't mind if it's a sidegrade or slight downgrade from elite specs in PvP/WvW, but giving people that extra little reason to want to play the spec would be pretty neat.

 

Edited September 10, 2023 by Za Shaloc.3908

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

I love all the suggestions in the Rev forums that are like “the class is awful needs a total rework.” Just f*** everyone who likes the class the way it is I guess simply because you’d selfishly prefer something else??? Maybe play a class you jive with more if you hate every aspect of it instead of advocating for complete reworks lmao 

Edited September 11, 2023 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

6 minutes ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I love all the suggestions in the Rev forums that are like “the class is awful needs a total rework.” Just f*** everyone who likes the class the way it is I guess simply because you’d selfishly prefer something else??? Maybe play a class you jive with more if you hate every aspect of it instead of advocating for complete reworks lmao 

Yes, because the people saying something needs to be done don't love or play the class either, they are just here to demand changes to mess with you. Talk about selfish and burying your head in the sand. The atypical play something else line demonstrates a large disconnect there.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Gustaff.6581]

Does it really need an F3 button?

In my opinion, there are many utility skills which are very expensive, i rather prefer to reduce the energy cost of some utilities rather than having this.

The best idea i have is to reset the cd of changing legends.

[LucianTheAngelic.7054]

5 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Yes, because the people saying something needs to be done don't love or play the class either, they are just here to demand changes to mess with you. Talk about selfish and burying your head in the sand. The atypical play something else line demonstrates a large disconnect there.

I seriously wonder why you play the class considering each of your posts is typically about how the entirety of the class is awful and needs massive reworks. The disconnect is only you believing that the class needs to change entirely to adjust to your vision instead of being what it is currently. Changes are fine, but they should be smart and still maintain the core of the class, not massively reworked into something else unrecognizable 

Edited September 11, 2023 by LucianTheAngelic.7054

[SoulGuardian.6203]

3 hours ago, LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:

I seriously wonder why you play the class considering each of your posts is typically about how the entirety of the class is awful and needs massive reworks. The disconnect is only you believing that the class needs to change entirely to adjust to your vision instead of being what it is currently. Changes are fine, but they should be smart and still maintain the core of the class, not massively reworked into something else unrecognizable 

I would like to remind you that:

1. You are straying off topic way too much.

2. You are taking this personal and are throwing everything at the other poster but the kitchen sink.

3. As far as I can tell, no one is saying to modify Rev in its entirety, only what is lackluster, such as energy cost and weapon to legend compability; not the Rev functionality.

Why don't you chill out a little and give your ideas as a neutral poster whilst trying to remain On topic.

If you wish, you can start your own post and rant away to your heart's content.

Thank you.

Edited September 11, 2023 by SoulGuardian.6203

[arazoth.7290]

12 hours ago, SoulGuardian.6203 said:

I would like to remind you that:

1. You are straying off topic way too much.

2. You are taking this personal and are throwing everything at the other poster but the kitchen sink.

3. As far as I can tell, no one is saying to modify Rev in its entirety, only what is lackluster, such as energy cost and weapon to legend compability; not the Rev functionality.

Why don't you chill out a little and give your ideas as a neutral poster whilst trying to remain On topic.

If you wish, you can start your own post and rant away to your heart's content.

Thank you.

About point 3, the irony is that you reacted on such a post in this thread. So yes there is that, you can scroll back hehe.

core revenant F3 might be little simple, but it is pretty good. That extra amount of energy solves some issues for high energy abiltiy costs atm if you want to play core bc of that. Aside the extra energy, you get some bonus effect. I will agree some bonus effects are better then others in comparison power wise. Mallyx resistance only and centaur regenation is pretty weak compared to jalis big damage reduction for low cost and 2 extra unblockables on shiro for low cost (mostly pvp/WvW). So these boons could be atleast shared with others for example.. .

Selecting skill abilties and not swapping will give a lot more issues. They have to redo the whole energy costs and cds and how much power each ability has. 

It would be better for some skill abilties to have less energy cost and adjusted cd. How much this would be I made idea topics before about, so lets just hold it at the main idea the majority agree with.

[SoulGuardian.6203]

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

About point 3, the irony is that you reacted on such a post in this thread. So yes there is that, you can scroll back hehe.

I'm not even sure what is you're trying to get at here, but ok. Lame excuses are always a laugh; so there's that.

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

core revenant F3 might be little simple, but it is pretty good. That extra amount of energy solves some issues for high energy abiltiy costs atm if you want to play core bc of that. Aside the extra energy, you get some bonus effect.

Every hardcore Rev knows 100% fact that it is NOT one of the best efforts to give us a decent trade-off. You can say what you like; but it's lazy and just a quick fix for something that requires more attention.

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I will agree some bonus effects are better then others in comparison power wise. Mallyx resistance only and centaur regenation is pretty weak compared to jalis big damage reduction for low cost and 2 extra unblockables on shiro for low cost (mostly pvp/WvW). So these boons could be atleast shared with others for example.. .

Now we're getting somewhere.

The boons you get from one legend should linger on legend switch, and perhaps even on weapon switch.

A good fix here would be that if you remain in that legend, with its assigned weapon, you should get bonus boons.

Let's call it "Compatibility bonus" or something along those lines.

However, not to sound contradictory; whenever you switch weapon;  each legend should get different boons, according to each different weapon you would switch to. 

Let's say you have centaur and staff. 

Then, your healing bonus would increase by #%.

If you switch to hammer while in centaur; then you would get healing+ Power = Bonus concentration for a certain amount of time. 

What I'm trying to explain is that each combination should get a bonus boon on weapon switch or legend switch.

That is an option and a way to go.

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Selecting skill abilties and not swapping will give a lot more issues. They have to redo the whole energy costs and cds and how much power each ability has. 

So what you suggest here?

This is what we are trying to get at.

Energy cost is obscene for what they do.

For instance. Shiro's healing skill is the worse one in the entire coll of classes and ESs.

It does not justify its cost.

It should heal for more with every hit, or offer bonus boons, such as resistance, aegis, or regen for a certain time.

In reality, Shiro's invincible stance would allow him to regain a huge percent of health while being immune to conditions, then some, he would transfer all conditions to all enemies in the area.

Why hasn't this been applied in Shiro's legend?

Why are revs not worthy of such abilities? 

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

It would be better for some skill abilties to have less energy cost and adjusted cd.

There ya go.

We got there in the end, it seems.

One example is: why on earth did Herald get nerfed on the first place?

They were in a decent spot and never needed nerfs to begin with.

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

How much this would be I made idea topics before about, so lets just hold it at the main idea the majority agree with.

All in all, Rev is still a strong contender; especially compared to "I hate you" Warrior, "Why you even exist"? Which gets to chew the bones after every single other class has the juicy stake; but it has been nerfed a lot more than necessary.

Again, F3 core skill is lazy and "quick fix" "that'll do" thing, which a twelve year old with no game dev xp could come up with.

You cannot be serious when you tell me that is perfectly fine.

I can think right now at the top of my head a few ideas that would totally make that skill a lot more useful and exciting... but wait... core rev was never meant to get useful and exciting; otherwise xpacs would not sell as much.

If you catch my drift.

Edited September 12, 2023 by SoulGuardian.6203