nerfing antitoxin without touching condi zerker...buffs condi zerker

[Eddie.9143]

bad move. it's even harder to beat now

[Okhu.7948]

Good. Back to the good old days of HoT Skull Grinder warriors.

[Saiyan.1704]

Am I wrong in thinking that Antitoxins basically adds a cleanse to any and every Self Cleanse skill you have, but sacrifices a cleanse to every other ally on your team? In comparison to Cleanse on Shouts which is 2 cleanses everytime you use a Shout skill....

Example: Sigil of Cleansing = 1 cleanse, with the Antitoxin relic it is 2 cleanses.
IF the icd of Antitoxins was say, 20 or 30 seconds, it will STILL be a cleanse every time you swap weapons which will proc Sigil of Cleansing. So 2 cleanses every 10 seconds with Sigil of Cleansing.

"Outgoing condition cleanses removes an additional condition."
[this effects an ally only once per ICD]

Am I incorrect? 
EDIT: I'm 99% sure i'm correct. It hasn't changed in sPvP only when you're amongst allies.... which was utterly strong in WvW (and arguably still is unless Relics have unique CD stacking).

Edited September 13, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

26 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Am I wrong in thinking that Antitoxins basically adds a cleanse to any and every Self Cleanse skill you have, but sacrifices a cleanse to every other ally on your team? In comparison to Cleanse on Shouts which is 2 cleanses everytime you use a Shout skill....

"Outgoing condition cleanses removes an additional condition."
[this effects an ally only once per ICD]

Am I incorrect?

The relic hasn’t been properly tested as far as I know…but the assumption is that it is an ICD specific to an ally. So for instance, if you used a skill that cleanses a condition on 5 allies, then antitoxin will not trigger on those same 5 allies if you use another skill that cleanses 5 allies if you use it before 5 seconds. In an environment like WvW, the effect of this is where it becomes useful since your skills won’t always target the same 5 people each time. In PVP, the effect is reasonable (180 condition cleanses maximum in a 3 minute engagement)

if the ICD is global and not target specific…then it would be 1 additional outgoing cleanse every 5 seconds, which would be pretty crap (36 cleanses maximum  in a 3 minute engagement) which is why the former is assumed over the ladder. 

Quote

Example: Sigil of Cleansing = 1 cleanse, with the Antitoxin relic it is 2 cleanses.
IF the icd of Antitoxins was say, 20 or 30 seconds, it will STILL be a cleanse every time you swap weapons which will proc Sigil of Cleansing. So 2 cleanses every 10 seconds with Sigil of Cleansing.

This would be incorrect. If the ICD regardless if it was global or target specific, the ICD triggers on the relics cooldown not the skill that activates it. So it wouldn’t cleanse every time you swap if the ICD on the relic was increased.

Edited September 13, 2023 by JusticeRetroHunter.7684

[JusticeRetroHunter.7684]

@Saiyan.1704 I edited my post slightly to give you some numbers for comparison. 

[Saiyan.1704]

11 minutes ago, JusticeRetroHunter.7684 said:

This would be incorrect. If the ICD regardless if it was global or target specific, the ICD triggers on the relics cooldown not the skill that activates it. So it wouldn’t cleanse every time you swap if the ICD on the relic was increased.

I did a few tests (before the nerf) that showed that it self-cleansed me with zero CD meaning i could spam any cleanses and i'd get an extra +1 cleanse. After patch I did another test that showed it was the same situation but ngl... it was a quick test and it just felt the same. Just wasn't sure if this was 100% confirmed or not....

Edited September 13, 2023 by Saiyan.1704

[Sahne.6950]

41 minutes ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

I did a few tests (before the nerf) that showed that it self-cleansed me with zero CD meaning i could spam any cleanses and i'd get an extra +1 cleanse. After patch I did another test that showed it was the same situation but ngl... it was a quick test and it just felt the same. Just wasn't sure if this was 100% confirmed or not....

just tested this.

its not true.

The ICD works on selfcleanse.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Removing it altogether from sPvP would be a great idea, as it isn't needed there.

Antitoxin was way more applicable to WvW when it was a rune because of all the cele condi trash running around; it has no place in sPvP.  

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

💀

Lets hope their adjustment to condi zerk is as focused as their adjustment to soulbeast. I sure would hate (but sure do expect) to be punished for people camping in fire fields until their W is finished baking again, just like HoT days. 

[Curennos.9307]

Don't like the anti-toxin change - why couldn't they add, say, charges or something to it that cool down independently and per person? Five charges, can only ever get the bonus for five people at once before it cools down. Something like that. Upping it to 10 sec feels excessive and kills its usefulness outside of support builds with lots of cleanse that can reach a lot of people at once.

[Saiyan.1704]

11 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

just tested this.

its not true.

The ICD works on selfcleanse.

Ah ok Thanks!! I think I had double cleanse sigils on and I trolled myself lol.

 

10 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Removing it altogether from sPvP would be a great idea, as it isn't needed there.  

Removing things instead of fixing them, is very bad practice. A Relic that gives players more options to cleanse can definitely be an alternative over a 10% damage one, or some other utility Relic.

[Bazsi.2734]

Do I have to change my forum icon again? I got so used to commenting "ranger" on most threads, having to comment "warrior" instead will be very upsetting.

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Saiyan.1704 said:

Removing things instead of fixing them, is very bad practice. A Relic that gives players more options to cleanse can definitely be an alternative over a 10% damage one, or some other utility Relic.

Not in sPvP it isn't.  Just look at all the amulets they removed and for good reason.