Stealth is not OP, you are just bad

[AliamRationem.5172]

What could possibly be wrong with unrestricted stealth at-will with hardly any direct counters?  It's almost like you'd have to balance a class to be terrible at combat in order for this to be okay. 🤔

[Flowki.7194]

8 minutes ago, magickthief.6492 said:

. no

also, those good thieves, can probably waffle you on your main with your main. i already explained why

Er yes.. the constant target drops is degenerate af, very cheap mitigation. Stop defending crutch mechanics becuase I garuntee if stealth had universal counters like it should do, 95% of you so called ''skilled'' thiefs would have some serious l2p issues. Youre hard carried by a broken mechanic.

 

There is 0 respect to be given to thief skill, it is completely over shadowed by the low risk crutch gameplay. All specs die in the hands of newbs, so get off the excuse that thief is ''punishing for mistakes''.. it does not take much skill to unlock thiefs mobility, and then get away with lots of dumb plays.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[magickthief.6492]

10 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

All specs die in the hands of newbs

My point, made by you.

14 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Er yes.. the constant target drops is degenerate af, very cheap mitigation. Stop defending crutch mechanics becuase I garuntee if stealth had universal counters like it should do, 95% of you so called ''skilled'' thiefs would have some serious l2p issues. Youre hard carried by a broken mechanic.

 

There is 0 respect to be given to thief skill, it is completely over shadowed by the low risk crutch gameplay. All specs die in the hands of newbs, so get off the excuse that thief is ''punishing for mistakes''.. it does not take much skill to unlock thiefs mobility, and then get away with lots of dumb plays.

in case you want to retract

[magickthief.6492]

16 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

What could possibly be wrong with unrestricted stealth at-will with hardly any direct counters?  It's almost like you'd have to balance a class to be terrible at combat in order for this to be okay. 🤔

I know that players cant cope with a stealthless thief. I KNOW FOR A FACT. How MANY NERFS WENT TO SHIRO HERALD..... My point in the original post was the truth. Most of you are terrible at the game. Shiro Heralds are the stealthless thief and YOU STILL COULDNT COPE. 

Checkmate, you lost. Confuse me, let me know I'm right.

[Flowki.7194]

15 minutes ago, magickthief.6492 said:

My point, made by you.

in case you want to retract

Hahah look around buddy... nobody likes thief stealth mechancis apart from thiefs. Deal with the facts, stealth in GW2 is a HUGE crutch.

 

Herald and willbender TPing to people, rooting them in place, then doing faceroll dmg, is bad game design. Just like a thief who can escape nion any ecnounter if he FAILS, is bad game design.. since if he doesnt fail YOU DIE. Go on bud, keep on justifying the lowest risk class in the game ;p. Youre funny.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[magickthief.6492]

2 minutes ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Hahah look around buddy... nobody likes thief stealth mechancis apart from thiefs. Deal with the facts, stealth in GW2 is a HUGE crutch.

answer the next point, then we can have a discussion

[AliamRationem.5172]

23 minutes ago, magickthief.6492 said:

I know that players cant cope with a stealthless thief. I KNOW FOR A FACT. How MANY NERFS WENT TO SHIRO HERALD..... My point in the original post was the truth. Most of you are terrible at the game. Shiro Heralds are the stealthless thief and YOU STILL COULDNT COPE. 

Checkmate, you lost. Confuse me, let me know I'm right.

So what are we debating?  Just slap a cooldown on it and everyone's happy.  Checkmate? 🤣

[magickthief.6492]

25 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

So what are we debating?  Just slap a cooldown on it and everyone's happy.  Checkmate? 🤣

Even with it removed, players cant cope. There were no more moves to be made. 

[Psycoprophet.8107]

1 hour ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

What could possibly be wrong with unrestricted stealth at-will with hardly any direct counters?  It's almost like you'd have to balance a class to be terrible at combat in order for this to be okay. 🤔

Unrestricted stealth??? Oh here we go with the hyperbole that is gw2 forums. Ini restricts stealth AND at same time restricts ALL weapon attacks while it's at it while the teef stacks stealth, to a ini restricted amount. Oh and whatever utility he takes that gives him some more at cost of utility skill.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

The fact my statement confuses anyone proves my point, I name how the class mechanic works and how it restricts stealth ie doesn't allow infinite stealth.... and it confuses someone who is clearly making balance opinions. Hence there in lies the issue.

[magickthief.6492]

9 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

The fact my statement confuses anyone proves my point, I name how the class mechanic works and how it restricts stealth ie doesn't allow infinite stealth.... and it confuses someone who is clearly making balance opinions. Hence there in lies the issue.

many of the posters in this thread have confused thief leaving the fight for other objectives as permanent stealth, let that sink in

[AliamRationem.5172]

33 minutes ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

The fact my statement confuses anyone proves my point, I name how the class mechanic works and how it restricts stealth ie doesn't allow infinite stealth.... and it confuses someone who is clearly making balance opinions. Hence there in lies the issue.

Had you considered that "infinite stealth" isn't the problem?  If you just stayed in stealth, why would anybody care?  Lots of games let you do that.  But GW2 is the only one that I can think of that lets you stealth whenever you want to while providing almost no direct counters.  In most games the ability to attack someone and then just disappear over and over again is extremely limited.

[Psycoprophet.8107]

19 minutes ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Had you considered that "infinite stealth" isn't the problem?  If you just stayed in stealth, why would anybody care?  Lots of games let you do that.  But GW2 is the only one that I can think of that lets you stealth whenever you want to while providing almost no direct counters.  In most games the ability to attack someone and then just disappear over and over again is extremely limited.

Eso magika allows infinite stealth by just pressing button every 3 secs, well at least 30+ secs of stealth. Wow is infinite but used out of combat but also rogue has skill can use once in combat for infinite stealth till attack again.

[TrollingDemigod.3041]

1 hour ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Eso magika allows infinite stealth by just pressing button every 3 secs, well at least 30+ secs of stealth. Wow is infinite but used out of combat but also rogue has skill can use once in combat for infinite stealth till attack again.

Dunno about WoW, since I don't play low iq games, but in case of ESO:
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/magelight - Summon a mote of magelight, revealing stealthed and invisible enemies around you for 5 seconds. < Available to EVERYONE IN THE GAME.
A counter, available to everyone, need some time to get it, sure, but everyone can get it. In case of GW2, not everyone have it, most of it is garbage with high cooldown for same amount of "reveal".
Also ESO PvP is quite garbage, better than WoW though.

[Burnfall.9573]

30 minutes ago, TrollingDemigod.3041 said:

Dunno about WoW, since I don't play low iq games, but in case of ESO:
https://eso-skillbook.com/skill/magelight - Summon a mote of magelight, revealing stealthed and invisible enemies around you for 5 seconds. < Available to EVERYONE IN THE GAME.
A counter, available to everyone, need some time to get it, sure, but everyone can get it. In case of GW2, not everyone have it, most of it is garbage with high cooldown for same amount of "reveal".
Also ESO PvP is quite garbage, better than WoW though.

It offers Risks, Counterplay vs Anet Toxic Stealth Mechanic

"Exposed enemies cannot return to stealth or invisibility for 4 seconds."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Magelight\

 

ESO Stealth/Sneak Detection Indicator

1. A horizontal line indicates you are completely hidden, or "stealthed". This is accompanied by the text hidden, and your character gains a shadow over their location.

2. The "eye" begins to open as you get near to a potential witness, or if an NPC begins to search for you.

3.  A solid oval means that somebody knows where you are or can see you. This is accompanied by the text detected. Note that you will also see this icon and text whenever interacting with objects even if there are no witnesses around to see you.

 

Edited October 1, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[MalekithDG.6124]

On 9/30/2023 at 7:03 AM, magickthief.6492 said:

When sword/dagger was meta, it had only one stealth skill, dagger 5. And it was still too much for the average gw2 player. They want easy wins, and when they don't get it, they go to excuses. So, with the S/D murdered by anet, they come for stealth. Most of you dont even know what your skills do. With all due respect, practice

I respect you man. I really do. ı really respect your needless struggle to defend your OP class from any harm so you can enjoy yourself 2-3 days longer, stomping on "noobs". What you are missing is the next balance patch is probably a year away so sit back and relax, go pour yourself a coffee or a tea man.

[Kuma.1503]

Stealth is OP

Lets stop pretending it's not. 

 

That being said... stealth doesn't exist in a vacuum. Over time, as classes that have kept stealth have been balanced relative to everyone else, sacrifices had to be made in order for these classes to keep the mechanic. Thief has had to make the most sacrifices since it has significantly more stealth than any other class. 

Thief still has stealth and top tier mobility. But it also has mediocre to bad  tankiness, sustain, Aoe/cleave, and support/utility. They've also seen massive bloat to resource costs over the years. With weapon skills getting simultanously weaker and more expensive (compare old Pistol whip to current day).  

 

You can lose to a thief and point out that they're abusing a broken mechanic. Because it's true. Same way you can point out that your average engi is abusing broken nades. But if the class is balanced around it... then the mechanic being broken isn't the reason you lost. You probably still got outskilled because your build is equally if not more broken in other areas and you weren't able to leverage your build's advantages to get the win. 

 

I hate fighting thief as much as the next guy, but what I hate more is nerfs that make something unplayable all for the sake of satisfying the angry mob. 

 

 

 

 

 

[MalekithDG.6124]

2 minutes ago, Kuma.1503 said:

Stealth is OP

Lets stop pretending it's not. 

 

That being said... stealth doesn't exist in a vacuum. Over time, as classes that have kept stealth have been balanced relative to everyone else, sacrifices had to be made in order for these classes to keep the mechanic. Thief has had to make the most sacrifices since it has significantly more stealth than any other class. 

Thief still has stealth and top tier mobility. But it also has mediocre to bad  tankiness, sustain, Aoe/cleave, and support/utility. They've also seen massive bloat to resource costs over the years. With weapon skills getting simultanously weaker and more expensive (compare old Pistol whip to current day).  

 

You can lose to a thief and point out that they're abusing a broken mechanic. Because it's true. Same way you can point out that your average engi is abusing broken nades. But if the class is balanced around it... then the mechanic being broken isn't the reason you lost. You probably still got outskilled because your build is equally if not more broken in other areas and you weren't able to leverage your build's advantages to get the win. 

 

I hate fighting thief as much as the next guy, but what I hate more is nerfs that make something unplayable all for the sake of satisfying the angry mob. 

 

 

 

 

 

Between 50 second refreshing blind and stealth they have to choose one. Im completely fine with thief stealth if they remove pistol 5 smoke field. Make it so that its a flash bomb instead and creates a light field and blinds the enemy for 1 second.

"But you are literally nerfing the stealth with this"

They can add stealth to ANY UTILITY SKILL for compensation. It could be anywhere between 5 to 10 seconds I wouldnt care. Go nuts.

[ccccc.4963]

lot of players in this thread with low fov and it shows 

[Sereath.1428]

8 hours ago, magickthief.6492 said:

I know that players cant cope with a stealthless thief. I KNOW FOR A FACT. How MANY NERFS WENT TO SHIRO HERALD..... My point in the original post was the truth. Most of you are terrible at the game. Shiro Heralds are the stealthless thief and YOU STILL COULDNT COPE. 

Checkmate, you lost. Confuse me, let me know I'm right.

Ha, excellent point actually.

How do some players here expect for some melee classes to engage in combat without the same level of sustain and CC of classes such as warrior and ranger.
"But the porting through walls! I can't expect that when I'm tunneling another toxic enemy player!"
"Yeah kitten stealth and teleports! They should be forced to run in a straight line and have to face tank my rotation if they want to get to me."
(And go watch recent Boyce streams if you want to see the state of Shiro Herald, actual throwing build currently.)

I've mentioned this before, if they were to replace the stealth of thief or the CC of warrior, etc, they would have to be insanely buffed in return, i.e., permanent superspeed, way more dodges, more blinds, more soft CC... or just way more damage. Just to stay decently viable while still adhering to the class theme.
And people would lose their minds for that.

Without realising it, some players here are advocating for homogenisation. Because any approach to combat that differs from their ideal is considered unfair.
Which is a strange mentality to have in an mmorpg.
Only ever satisfied the moment other players stop playing those other things.

-
I will say though, the stealth here is the strongest one I've seen around.
It's weird, in some games they actually reduce your movement speed but here they are now giving you superspeed
and some classes in other games (AION for instance) had the ability to see through stealth no matter the distance for like half a minute.
The same can be said for CC here, it's so long, it's everywhere and it has no diminishing returns.

Stealth here is indeed too hard to outplay for most players, but outside of the superspeed it gets nowadays (through trait or relic), it's much better balanced than it used to be.
(I actually hate thieves too, you have no idea, but it has been a while since I've died to one, they are just very annoying and a waste of time to fight as they will never die when they're close to losing.)

For a while now, I've had way bigger problems with other specs being low risk / high reward. From a design point of view, I find their designs putrid.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[AliamRationem.5172]

7 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

Ha, excellent point actually.

How do some players here expect for some melee classes to engage in combat without the same sustain and CC of classes such as warrior and ranger.
"But the porting through walls! I can't expect that when I'm tunneling another toxic enemy player!"
(And go watch recent Boyce streams if you want to see the state of Shiro Herald, actual throwing build currently.)

I've mentioned this before, if they were to replace the stealth of thief or the CC of warrior, etc, they would have to be insanely buffed in return, i.e., permanent superspeed, way more dodges, more blinds, more soft CC... or just way more damage. Just to stay decently viable while still adhering to the class theme.
And people would lose their minds for that.

Without realising it, some players here are advocating for homogenisation. Because any approach to combat that differs from their ideal is considered unfair.
Which is a strange mentality to have in an mmorpg.
Only ever satisfied the moment other players stop playing those other things.

Nice "all or nothing" argument.  Of course stealth can only exist in its current state or the universe as we know it will end.  You might as well erase the class if it can't stealth over and over again whenever it wants. 🙄

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Nade engi is a FAR more egregious misuse of stealth than anything thief can do, but anet still doesn't touch it.

Probably because topics like these are ultra focused on thief which stopped being a threat years ago.

[Sereath.1428]

10 minutes ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Nade engi is a FAR more egregious misuse of stealth than anything thief can do, but anet still doesn't touch it.

Probably because topics like these are ultra focused on thief which stopped being a threat years ago.

Yeah and I don't think engi players like that either.
Their whole class is constantly being balanced around that single playstyle and it seems to be the case with other classes as well.

To the other comment:
I love one-dimensional people who read one sentence because they have already made up their mind about "their" idea.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Sereath.1428

[Flowki.7194]

6 hours ago, AliamRationem.5172 said:

Had you considered that "infinite stealth" isn't the problem?  If you just stayed in stealth, why would anybody care?  Lots of games let you do that.  But GW2 is the only one that I can think of that lets you stealth whenever you want to while providing almost no direct counters.  In most games the ability to attack someone and then just disappear over and over again is extremely limited.

This is the exact problem. The thiefs ability to attack you at his choosing, and escape at his choosing AKA low risk high reward. Nobody can return that kind of situation onto the thief, not a single other class, putting the thief in a powerful position of engagement control. That is what annoys me about thief, he only has to be ''average'' at using his stealth mechanics to become unkillable UNLESS he gets greedy.

 

 

6 hours ago, Psycoprophet.8107 said:

Eso magika allows infinite stealth by just pressing button every 3 secs, well at least 30+ secs of stealth. Wow is infinite but used out of combat but also rogue has skill can use once in combat for infinite stealth till attack again.

This truly highlights that you havent got a clue. The stealth in WOW was far more balanced than GW2. Every single player in the game could reveal the rogue if they got close to him, and aoe would break his stealth, if he had a dmg condition on him before going into stealth, that would also break it (off the top of my head, long time ago). The hunter class had two decent counters (although it was far from a rock paper scissors, good rogues were still hard to kill). Now, even with far superior universal counter mechanics in wow, the rogue was constantly on the edge of being OP, and people in general did not like fighting rogues. The very concept of a class that can sneak up on you and deal massive dmg before you can react is not a popular one for all but the players doing it, you need to deal with that reality. In GW2 there are no universal direct counters to stealth (any stealth by any spec), which is toxic af since ALL of the specs that have access to stealth also have dmg that can kill you in under 4 seconds. The situation is worse with thief becuase they are simply unkillable too much of the time.

 

2 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

Ha, excellent point actually.

How do some players here expect for some melee classes to engage in combat without the same level of sustain and CC of classes such as warrior and ranger.
"But the porting through walls! I can't expect that when I'm tunneling another toxic enemy player!"
"Yeah kitten stealth and teleports! They should be forced to run in a straight line and have to face tank my rotation if they want to get to me."
(And go watch recent Boyce streams if you want to see the state of Shiro Herald, actual throwing build currently.)

I've mentioned this before, if they were to replace the stealth of thief or the CC of warrior, etc, they would have to be insanely buffed in return, i.e., permanent superspeed, way more dodges, more blinds, more soft CC... or just way more damage. Just to stay decently viable while still adhering to the class theme.
And people would lose their minds for that.

Without realising it, some players here are advocating for homogenisation. Because any approach to combat that differs from their ideal is considered unfair.
Which is a strange mentality to have in an mmorpg.
Only ever satisfied the moment other players stop playing those other things.

-
I will say though, the stealth here is the strongest one I've seen around.
It's weird, in some games they actually reduce your movement speed but here they are now giving you superspeed
and some classes in other games (AION for instance) had the ability to see through stealth no matter the distance for like half a minute.

Stealth here is indeed too hard to outplay for most players, but outside of the superspeed it gets nowadays (through trait or relic), it's much better balanced than it used to be.
(I actually hate thieves too, you have no idea, but it has been a while since I've died to one, they are just very annoying and a waste of time to fight as they will never die when they're close to losing.)

For a while now, I've had way bigger problems with other specs being low risk / high reward. From a design point of view, I find their designs putrid.

 

No, youre bias and defending bs mechanics. A universal counter to stealth is needed, which will up the risk/reward of thief. If that comes with some additional direct sustain for the thief then so be it.. but right now the thiefs low risk high reward game play is toxic af and not impressive at all. It cannot be considered genuine skill if you have the mechanics that allow you to escape almost any situation.. you need to think about that. Thief isnt the only one with high escape mobility, their are a few other specs that need to be slapped in line due to the same issue, low risk engagements due to the ability to get out at will.

 

1 hour ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Nade engi is a FAR more egregious misuse of stealth than anything thief can do, but anet still doesn't touch it.

Probably because topics like these are ultra focused on thief which stopped being a threat years ago.

 

There are countless examples of bad game design in gw2, one doesnt simply trump the other in terms of dealing with it.

 

Thief stopped being a threat? to who? Im getting nothing but elitist vibes here. If you are a plat player then you should understand the importance of average level play, in retaining a playerbase which will ensure you have enough population to feed into plat level games (hows that going right now?.......). In average level play there are a number of specs that are horrednously OP in that environment, and a lack of universal counter to stealth, puts thief right up there on that list of toxic matches. 5 button burst builds, and 5 button bunker/deulist builds are also on that list. The game is at that point now, if you don't enjoy or play one of the degenerate specs, well.. might aswell quit

 

- See you at next patch ^^

Edited October 1, 2023 by Flowki.7194

[Psycoprophet.8107]

8 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

It offers Risks, Counterplay vs Anet Toxic Stealth Mechanic

"Exposed enemies cannot return to stealth or invisibility for 4 seconds."

https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Online:Magelight\

 

ESO Stealth/Sneak Detection Indicator

1. A horizontal line indicates you are completely hidden, or "stealthed". This is accompanied by the text hidden, and your character gains a shadow over their location.

2. The "eye" begins to open as you get near to a potential witness, or if an NPC begins to search for you.

3.  A solid oval means that somebody knows where you are or can see you. This is accompanied by the text detected. Note that you will also see this icon and text whenever interacting with objects even if there are no witnesses around to see you.

 

Yeah but stealth is far easier to stack for longer durations, easier to restealth, gw2 has reveal to, and revealed skins on some classes that shut thiefs stealth down.

U all are a combination of 1. Bad player, 2. Whiny player. 3. u simply dislike the class and want it removed for ur own selfish...kinda narcissistic reasons. Worlds don't revolve around u guys...hate to breaker to ya's lol.

Edited October 1, 2023 by Psycoprophet.8107