Throw Mine is Actually Strong

[Dirame.8521]

As some of you forum-lurkers know, I have been playing this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlJw2YMsFWJOsOmrcA-D6IeGZKBCZBIvzAAA and I can say that one of the most powerful abilities in that set-up is Throw mine (just ask the Thief that felt bullied by stepping into it 4 times 🤣). Apart from the fact that it stuns your opponents, it also rips 3 boons (6 if you do it point blank on someone with the gm trait in tools ) and that alone enables this build to go toe-to-toe against eles. Then it's unblockability makes it a pain for Guards and block spam wars to deal with and not to mention its always fun to watch someone come running at you whilst about to activate an ability only to suddenly stop in their tracks. It's just an all round brilliant ability. Wouldn't change it in any way unless they want to give it alacrity or something then please go ahead hahaha!

Edited October 9, 2023 by Dirame.8521

[SleepyBat.9034]

2 hours ago, Dirame.8521 said:

As some of you forum-lurkers know, I have been playing this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlJw2YMsFWJOsOmrcA-D6IeGZKBCZBIvzAAA and I can say that one of the most powerful abilities in that set-up is Throw mine (just ask the Thief that felt bullied by stepping into it 4 times 🤣). Apart from the fact that it stuns your opponents, it also rips 3 boons (6 if you do it point blank on someone) and that alone enables this build to go toe-to-toe against eles. Then it's unblockability makes it a pain for Guards and block spam wars to deal with and not to mention its always fun to watch someone come running at you whilst about to activate an ability only to suddenly stop in their tracks. It's just an all round brilliant ability. Wouldn't change it in any way unless they want to give it alacrity or something then please go ahead hahaha!

Anet really needs to unnerf it in wvw.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

48 minutes ago, SleepyBat.9034 said:

Anet really needs to unnerf it in wvw.

Ngl one of my dreams is to play an engi who has created a literal minefield and when 10 enemies walk over it they blow up!

[Alcatraznc.3869]

A 1 sec stun that remove 3 boon on a 30 sec CD, I wouldnt call that strong, just good. 

[Matoro.9708]

The toolbelt honestly keeps me from using it. Takes forever to cast and spreads randomly and won't recharge if just one of the mines doesn't trip. Which is all the time.

[Dirame.8521]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:35 PM, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

A 1 sec stun that remove 3 boon on a 30 sec CD, I wouldnt call that strong, just good. 

Since I've been playing with it for weeks and weeks on end. I can tell you those 30s feel like 5 especially because you can throw them out and the cooldown starts without the mines being triggered. So if someone trips the ones you threw out, you can instantly throw another one.

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 10/7/2023 at 3:28 PM, Dirame.8521 said:

As some of you forum-lurkers know, I have been playing this build: http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PeQAQlJw2YMsFWJOsOmrcA-D6IeGZKBCZBIvzAAA and I can say that one of the most powerful abilities in that set-up is Throw mine (just ask the Thief that felt bullied by stepping into it 4 times 🤣). Apart from the fact that it stuns your opponents, it also rips 3 boons (6 if you do it point blank on someone) and that alone enables this build to go toe-to-toe against eles. Then it's unblockability makes it a pain for Guards and block spam wars to deal with and not to mention its always fun to watch someone come running at you whilst about to activate an ability only to suddenly stop in their tracks. It's just an all round brilliant ability. Wouldn't change it in any way unless they want to give it alacrity or something then please go ahead hahaha!

Well done pointing out an adequately balanced skill, they will probably nerf it now.

[Dirame.8521]

On 10/8/2023 at 3:30 PM, Matoro.9708 said:

The toolbelt honestly keeps me from using it. Takes forever to cast and spreads randomly and won't recharge if just one of the mines doesn't trip. Which is all the time.

The cast is long but with all the CC in our arsenal we can set it up. I was neglecting to use it for a long time then I remembered how powerful it can be (it's just as powerful as a grenade barrage) so I started to use it in my combos and yeah, let's just say people couldn't stay standing. I wish the toolbelt mines still ripped boons as in the old days though. That was useful.

Edited October 9, 2023 by Dirame.8521

[Stalima.5490]

On 10/7/2023 at 11:35 PM, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

A 1 sec stun that remove 3 boon on a 30 sec CD, I wouldnt call that strong, just good. 

It throws out 2 mines at 1.5 seconds (3 sec total stun) tho with gadgeteer and is one of the strongest defensive options you can have on engineer with this trait,  you forget that it is also unblockable.

 

So basically:

24 second cooldown (not 30, remember recharges where baked in base)

up to 3 seconds of stun in spvp

up to 6 boons removed

It is Unblockable

Up to 2 blast finishers

900 range throw

explosive allows excellent trait sync

can be manually detonated at up to double the circles aoe to throw enemies offguard

very low cd toolbelt which deals alot of damage

 

You would usually use it as a form of defense but it is easily usable offensively to prevent blockers.  Just some advice to the OP tho, they massively buffed the elixir X moa so if you are doing core you can drop a 51s cooldown moa grenade now with tools down from 90s, use this knowlege wisely, responsibly and always for the greater good... who am I kidding just moa everything.

Edited October 10, 2023 by Stalima.5490

[MithranArkanere.8957]

I still think it should be converted into a Trap or Preparation, so once placed it's actually invisible to enemies.

Engineers have 4 slot skill types with 5 utility skills each instead of the 5 skill types with 4 utilities other professions have.

I think it would be great for engineers to have that changed for consistency and to give them more skill variety, by converting Throw Mine and the least used or least thematic skill of the other types into a 5th. I would go with these:

• Throw Mine could become "Prepare Mine", still throwable, unlike the other preparations/traps.
• The mostly useless net turret could become "Prepare Net", and when triggered cause the same damage, 2s stun and 3s immobilize effect as when the net turret is placed and overcharges. The greater control as a preparation would compensate for the reduced number of immobilize casts per skill use.
• Elixir S could become "Prepare Escape", to compensate for having to prepare it beforehand, it could get a short 600-unit teleport in the direction where you placed it. The 3s invulnerability would be unchanged.
• The kit is the hardest to choose, but I'd go with Tool Kit.  Box of Nails could become "Prepare Shrapnel" and deal damage and largely increased bleeding instead of immobilize, and also become an explosion.
  And what about the other 4 skills? I would move them to a core Engineer melee weapon, like an axe or a dagger, giving engineers a non-utility core melee weapon without the need for expansions. The auto-attack would be mostly the same, still dealing crippled and vulnerable and repairing turrets, Pry bar could also daze if the enemy is vulnerable,  and Gear Shield and Magnet could be merged into one skill. One skill blocks, and switches over to Magnet, whether you block or not, you can always use Magnet to pull an enemy, maybe with an added effect if you did block attacks. 
  Mace would have been a better choice for this new weapon, but it is taken.

As for the toolbelt skills, I see no need to change them at all. The changed skills would have still the same exact toolbelt skills, including Throw Elixir S, it would not be the first elixir skill tied to a non-elixir skill.

[Panda.1967]

7 hours ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

I still think it should be converted into a Trap or Preparation, so once placed it's actually invisible to enemies.

Engineers have 4 slot skill types with 5 utility skills each instead of the 5 skill types with 4 utilities other professions have.

I think it would be great for engineers to have that changed for consistency and to give them more skill variety, by converting Throw Mine and the least used or least thematic skill of the other types into a 5th. I would go with these:

• Throw Mine could become "Prepare Mine", still throwable, unlike the other preparations/traps.
• The mostly useless net turret could become "Prepare Net", and when triggered cause the same damage, 2s stun and 3s immobilize effect as when the net turret is placed and overcharges. The greater control as a preparation would compensate for the reduced number of immobilize casts per skill use.
• Elixir S could become "Prepare Escape", to compensate for having to prepare it beforehand, it could get a short 600-unit teleport in the direction where you placed it. The 3s invulnerability would be unchanged.
• The kit is the hardest to choose, but I'd go with Tool Kit.  Box of Nails could become "Prepare Shrapnel" and deal damage and largely increased bleeding instead of immobilize, and also become an explosion.
  And what about the other 4 skills? I would move them to a core Engineer melee weapon, like an axe or a dagger, giving engineers a non-utility core melee weapon without the need for expansions. The auto-attack would be mostly the same, still dealing crippled and vulnerable and repairing turrets, Pry bar could also daze if the enemy is vulnerable,  and Gear Shield and Magnet could be merged into one skill. One skill blocks, and switches over to Magnet, whether you block or not, you can always use Magnet to pull an enemy, maybe with an added effect if you did block attacks. 
  Mace would have been a better choice for this new weapon, but it is taken.

As for the toolbelt skills, I see no need to change them at all. The changed skills would have still the same exact toolbelt skills, including Throw Elixir S, it would not be the first elixir skill tied to a non-elixir skill.

I made a similar suggestion a long time ago… though my suggestion involved turning Elixir S into a Gadget skill and making both Throw Mine & Slick Shoes into Traps… and I had suggested turning Bomb Kit into a trap (got a lot of flakk for that one…) I still think Bomb Kit is the best choice for a kit to become a trap… but maybe as an Elite Trap skill that places all 5 bombs at once… though I do see the merit behind choosing Tool Kit, since it is arguably the worst kit…

[Alcatraznc.3869]

14 hours ago, Stalima.5490 said:

It throws out 2 mines at 1.5 seconds (3 sec total stun) tho with gadgeteer and is one of the strongest defensive options you can have on engineer with this trait,  you forget that it is also unblockable.

 

So basically:

24 second cooldown (not 30, remember recharges where baked in base)

up to 3 seconds of stun in spvp

up to 6 boons removed

It is Unblockable

Up to 2 blast finishers

900 range throw

explosive allows excellent trait sync

can be manually detonated at up to double the circles aoe to throw enemies offguard

very low cd toolbelt which deals alot of damage

 

You would usually use it as a form of defense but it is easily usable offensively to prevent blockers.  Just some advice to the OP tho, they massively buffed the elixir X moa so if you are doing core you can drop a 51s cooldown moa grenade now with tools down from 90s, use this knowlege wisely, responsibly and always for the greater good... who am I kidding just moa everything.

Then this is for PvP because WvW is still 30 sec for 1 sec stun duration.

 

I would rather run something like rocket shoes which IMO becomes more and more mandatory for WvW considering the movement powercreep.

[Arantheal.7396]

18 hours ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

I still think it should be converted into a Trap or Preparation, so once placed it's actually invisible to enemies.

-snip- 

Yea, I like the trap Idea, I dislike your approach of taking out perfectly fine utilities that get niche use and add build variety, when we have a giant elephant in the room that could be adressed instead: turrets

first of all, those that actually see some frequent use need to be salvaged: healing turret and rifle turret.

rifle turret: now becomes a gadget, called "shoulder-mounted gun". Elite Skill. Upon activation, you gain 10 charges. When you strike a target, a charge is spent, and the shoulder mounted gun shoots a bullet at your target. These projectiles can crit, and are 100% projectile finishers. 1sec internal cd, 30sec cd, toolbelt stays the same, and if gadgeteer is active, those bullets cause vulnerability and have a 50% damage increase.

healing turret: now becomes a gadget called "healing dispenser", replaces A.E.D. as the gadget healing skill, and stays functionally the same. Gadgeteer grants the same effects as experimental turrets did previously. toolbelt remains unchanged.

new utility line: traps

new trait: trapper
"trapper" replaces "experimental turrets". This trait swaps places with "anticorrosion plating", and therefore becomes a grandmaster trait in inventions, in competition with bunker down and medical dispersion field.
trapper allows all traps to be thrown, creating a second copy at the engineers feet once a trap is successfully placed. (thrown traps are unblockable, ensuring they will land, but their effects very well may be blocked or mitigated as normal)

A.E.D.: now is considered a trap. when activated, it places a device at the engineers feet, which will heal the engineer for a small amount after 5 seconds within 360 range. if a hostile target walks into 180 range of it, or the engineer gets downed within 360 range of it, it immediately triggers, rallies the enginner (if need be), and heals the engineer for a large amount within 360 range. Upon activation, All allies within 360 range get healed for a small amount of health (roughly half of what the trap would do after 5 seconds), Toolbelt remains the same.
Can be manually detonated to heal for 50% of its full burst, and will do so regardless of the engineers current state or position. This option does not take any second A.E.D. trap on the field into consideration when manually detonated, and despawns all of them, not healing any allies in the process.

Throw mine: now is considered a trap, and renamed to "lay mine". When activated, it is placed at the feet of the engineer. Otherwise it stays functionally the same, and can be manually detonated. 180 trigger range, 360 effect range. 12 sec cd.

thumper turret: renamed to "seismic charge", and is considered a trap. Upon activation, it lays a trap at the engineers feet, that is functionally the same as thumpers overcharge, but only triggers once. can be triggered manually. With trapper activated, and good positioning, you could launch a enemy into the second trap, for extra hilarity. 180 trigger range, 360 effect range. Toolbelt remains unchanged. 20 sec cd.

flame turret: renamed to "pyroclastic charge", and is considered a trap. Upon activation, it lays a trap at the engineers feet, that spawns a smoke feild. Targets inside this smoke field gain blind (4s), burning (4s) and confusion (4s) on a 1 second interval, and the field lasts for 5 seconds. After 5 seconds it blasts itself, dazing targets within its range for 1 second, and either granting AoE stealth on its last tick by blasting its own smoke field, or blasting whatever friendly field currently is overlaying it. Can be manually detonated, 180 trigger range, 360 effect range. Toolbelt remains unchanged. 20 sec cd

net turret: renamed to "cryogenic charge" and is considered a trap. Upon activation, it lays a trap at the engineers feet, that spawns an ice field. Targets inside this ice field are stunned for 2 seconds once upon activation, gain chilled (2s) on a 1 second interval, and the field lasts for 5 seconds. Can be manually detonated, 180 trigger range, 360 effect range. 20 sec cd.
The toolbelt stuns and immobilizes the engineer himself, engulfes him in a block of ice, makes him immune to all incomming damage and/or conditions currently affecting him. On a 1 sec interval, removes 1 condition, grants protection (2s), vigor (2s) and alacrity (2s). Lasts 3 seconds, and prevents the engineer from contributing to point capture in WvW and PvP. It's called "cryogenic sleep", and is considered as elixier skill.

rocket turret: dunno. it is functionally too similar to throw mine already, and we would have 6 trap skills without it already. Just scratch it I guess.

Supply crate: is now considered a trap, and drops a mine, a seismic charge and a pyroclastic charge instead of its former turrets, but otherwise remains unchaged. same for its toolbelt. with "trapper", it doubles the traps it drops, which is perfectly reasonable in my book, considering it's still on a 180 cd.

All traps have the explosive tag on their main utility skill.
Underwater, all  traps place explosive buoys instead, or launch them at targets, with "trapper" active.

There. A broken (nerfed to oblivion) utility line gone, finally a proper on-theme elite-skill gadget, and a utility line that interacts with our existing traits quite well already.

[Stalima.5490]

12 hours ago, Alcatraznc.3869 said:

Then this is for PvP because WvW is still 30 sec for 1 sec stun duration.

 

I would rather run something like rocket shoes which IMO becomes more and more mandatory for WvW considering the movement powercreep.

well obviously, if you actually looked at the build it is equipped with spvp equipment, not standard equipment.

 

also, wiki says 24cd for wvw with only the boons removal nerfed to 1 instead of 3 https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Throw_Mine

Edited October 11, 2023 by Stalima.5490