Thief invisible...

[Puck.3697]

4 hours ago, Burnfall.9573 said:

 

yeah ok

 

So you show me a 1v1 . Lol u trolling. 

 

1v1s are not the intended gameplay in WvWvW large scale pvp is. 

[Burnfall.9573]

 

 

9 hours ago, kash.9213 said:

You must get aneurysms dealing with Stealth in other games if GW2 got you that shook. 

 

Other game Companies, takes a Healthy, Competitive Counterplay approach to Stealth Mechanic.

Whereas, Anet takes a Toxic Non- Counterplay, Anti+Competitive, Anti-Healthy approach to Stealth Mechanic.

As you are fully aware that, Anet Stealth Mechanic, us a threat to Healthy Competition 

Do you know the beauty of Competition, is inspiration?

How about if I told you, the only thing that was inspired in Guild Wars 2, was a flying mount?

That is correct

Blizzard Entertainment was inspired/stole one of Anet flying mount design

Yup, that a Guild Wars 2 Inspiration to the Gaming Industry

A flying mount dragon

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.pcgamer.com/if-you-want-to-try-wow-dragonflights-new-rideable-dragons-just-play-guild-wars-2/&ved=2ahUKEwiNhYXkvpKCAxU2D1kFHWzGB8sQFnoECCoQAQ&usg=AOvVaw23-ph3bSmuLzhlSwdIUMZ2

Where's the lawsuit??

I have no respect for Blizzard Entertainment

 

Nothing more, Nothing less

Edited October 26, 2023 by Burnfall.9573

[agnlaa.7594]

every time someone whines about thief stealth i resolve to be more toxic and obnoxious 

[Jitters.9401]

On 10/8/2023 at 1:38 AM, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

Most stealth lasts only 2-3 seconds per application. Although things can be chained depending on what was used.

When you get hit by a cloak and dagger (#5 dagger skill) that does 5400+damage threat after the thief de-stealths, just so he can go back into stealth again.

 

De-stealth with a fraction of a second to stealth again. Dodge roll to avoid any retaliation, 5k cloak and dagger again.

 

Rinse. Repeat. Game over.

Easy peasy. Very miniscule risk for the highest gain. 

[FrancisN.9276]

32 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

De-stealth with a fraction of a second to stealth again. Dodge roll to avoid any retaliation, 5k cloak and dagger again.

 

Rinse. Repeat. Game over.

Easy peasy. Very miniscule risk for the highest gain. 

Do you even play thief? If you do, you must have notice the flashing "revealed" icon lasting for like 5s everytime you de-stealth. Thief cannot stealth again in that timeframe. And guess what, you can still retaliate even with autoattack when thief stealth because stealth is neither Block nor Reflect (the later has no counter play). With the lowest HP thief has among all classes, thief cannot afford to be hit as often as other classes.

[Jitters.9401]

On 11/2/2023 at 11:08 PM, FrancisN.9276 said:

Do you even play thief? If you do, you must have notice the flashing "revealed" icon lasting for like 5s everytime

Lololol 

The only thing you know about the "thief" class is how to spell it.

 

I am literally writing this out for you, so no clue how you fail to understand. 

 

I am a thief. I hit someone for 5k damage, cloak and dagger. I am now stealthed.

I wait till the STEALTH RUNS OUT. A fraction of a second after it expires I do another 5k damage cloak and dagger.

There is absolutely no stealth debuff when you let the stealth expire before you attack again.

 

With dodges and shadow step (+shadowstep back) a thief can kill someone this way and face next to nil in retaliation.

 

A thief is like that xman "Wolverine". Almost no risk with a crazy high damage output.   He isn't cool. Just someone who exploits his godmode. 

[FrancisN.9276]

58 minutes ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Lololol 

The only thing you know about the "thief" class is how to spell it.

 

I am literally writing this out for you, so no clue how you fail to understand. 

 

I am a thief. I hit someone for 5k damage, cloak and dagger. I am now stealthed.

I wait till the STEALTH RUNS OUT. A fraction of a second after it expires I do another 5k damage cloak and dagger.

There is absolutely no stealth debuff when you let the stealth expire before you attack again.

 

With dodges and shadow step (+shadowstep back) a thief can kill someone this way and face next to nil in retaliation.

 

A thief is like that xman "Wolverine". Almost no risk with a crazy high damage output.   He isn't cool. Just someone who exploits his godmode. 

That sounds more like an exploit than an intended gameplay. I don't mind this getting looked at by the balance team, so they don't nerf the wrong culprit like last time they did with Shadow Meld.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, FrancisN.9276 said:

That sounds more like an exploit than an intended gameplay. I don't mind this getting looked at by the balance team, so they don't nerf the wrong culprit like last time they did with Shadow Meld.

Dont let him bamboozle you. 

Cloak and dagger is 130 range. If a thief is relying on cnd to chain stealth, and is glass enough to do 5ks with it, they're spoon feeding themselves to anyone with a melee weapon or aoe with a shred of object permanence. 

[Bern.9613]

5 hours ago, Jitters.9401 said:

Lololol 

The only thing you know about the "thief" class is how to spell it.

 

I am literally writing this out for you, so no clue how you fail to understand. 

 

I am a thief. I hit someone for 5k damage, cloak and dagger. I am now stealthed.

I wait till the STEALTH RUNS OUT. A fraction of a second after it expires I do another 5k damage cloak and dagger.

There is absolutely no stealth debuff when you let the stealth expire before you attack again.

 

With dodges and shadow step (+shadowstep back) a thief can kill someone this way and face next to nil in retaliation.

 

A thief is like that xman "Wolverine". Almost no risk with a crazy high damage output.   He isn't cool. Just someone who exploits his godmode. 

What are you fighting in your scenario? That golem in the sf area of lion's arch that stands there making noises? An afk thief? There isn't a single player that would stand still, not run any boons and let a thief hit them enough times with CnD to die to it. Most classes run 17k+ hp with endless boons except thief. Thief can't generate boons nor heal like other classes. If a player uses lock auto target and snap ground target then starts any channel skill, the thief is going to eat it in or out of stealth. Unless they dodge. However, neither the dodge nor a shadow step will stop rapid fire, poison dart volley, grenades, etc. from hitting. So once again, how is this a "god mode"?

[Sleepwalker.1398]

12 minutes ago, Bern.9613 said:

What are you fighting in your scenario? That golem in the sf area of lion's arch that stands there making noises? An afk thief? There isn't a single player that would stand still, not run any boons and let a thief hit them enough times with CnD to die to it. Most classes run 17k+ hp with endless boons except thief. Thief can't generate boons nor heal like other classes. If a player uses lock auto target and snap ground target then starts any channel skill, the thief is going to eat it in or out of stealth. Unless they dodge. However, neither the dodge nor a shadow step will stop rapid fire, poison dart volley, grenades, etc. from hitting. So once again, how is this a "god mode"?

Old video yes, and some may argue that stealth on heal trait has been removed but another recent video has just change the heal skill to hide in shadows.

 

[Bern.9613]

25 minutes ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

Old video yes, and some may argue that stealth on heal trait has been removed but another recent video has just change the heal skill to hide in shadows.

 

How about, the nerf to shadow arts ended this. No more 50% increased speed. No more hp regen. No more initiative regen. No more chaining stealth with heal. No more increased base damage and the damage multiplier by 100%. No more increased base healing by 100% and the heal multiplier by 60%. No more life stealing base damage of 320. Reduced dagger storm power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.4 in PvP and WvW. So yea, old video that has no bearing on what this topic is about.

[Sleepwalker.1398]

7 hours ago, Bern.9613 said:

How about, the nerf to shadow arts ended this. No more 50% increased speed. No more hp regen. No more initiative regen. No more chaining stealth with heal. No more increased base damage and the damage multiplier by 100%. No more increased base healing by 100% and the heal multiplier by 60%. No more life stealing base damage of 320. Reduced dagger storm power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.4 in PvP and WvW. So yea, old video that has no bearing on what this topic is about.

 

Recent vid, first fight shows still can be done.
Also many would argue that Shadow Arts made thief better.
Heal in and out of stealth, super speed in and out of stealth, init in and out of stealth.

[Puck.3697]

On 10/26/2023 at 1:26 AM, Burnfall.9573 said:

Other game Companies, takes a Healthy, Competitive Counterplay approach to Stealth Mechanic

How exactly if you don't mind me asking. 

In WoW rogues can stealth repeatively continously. With perma stealth without reveal. Lol

This game limits stealth far more then other mmorpgs. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

 

Recent vid, first fight shows still can be done.

By what metric?

Power zerker is often a free bag even when it tries, and that zerker didn't try a single hit nor was geared to fight outside of a zerg. They were running blood reckoning, running into nowhere away from their group, and  had no game plan.  Its astounding they lived as long as they did. 

Quote

Also many would argue that Shadow Arts made thief better.
Heal in and out of stealth, super speed in and out of stealth, init in and out of stealth.

They have to pop out of stealth to benefit from their traits if they take SA now, which is what the nerf brigade wanted.Thieves adapting to that is no argument.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Fueki.4753]

9 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

How exactly if you don't mind me asking.

In the case of WoW, there is visual and audio information, when the stealthed enemy is in close proximity. At least it existed when I last played (which was in BfA) and I see no reason for them to remove that.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Puck.3697]

3 hours ago, Fueki.4753 said:

In the case of WoW, there is visual and audio information, when the stealthed enemy is in close proximity. At least it existed when I last played (which was in BfA) and I see no reason for them to remove that.

I've never seen either a visual or audio information regarding stealth??. 

You sure it wasn't a addon/weak aura providing this? I know stealthing had a visual and audio when the rogue entered stealth. But you could stealth before the game started to dodge this occurring. 

Hence why rogue is despised so much in open world pvp in WoW, because in open world rogues world just farm players in open world 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Fueki.4753]

7 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

I've never seen either a visual or audio information regarding stealth??.

There#s always been that sound that indicate a stealth enemy is nearby. Maybe you should make a Horde character and take it to Cataclysm's version of the Azshara map to encounter the hidden Night Elves to hear the sound. If that doesn't count as an audio clue to you, literally nothing does.

And you can also see the silhouettes of nearby stealthed enemies (it may also look a bit leaf-y for Hunter's Stealth), as long the proximity is close enough. if that doesn't count as visual information to you, nothing does.

7 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

You sure it wasn't a addon/weak aura providing this? 

I don't play with add-ons. I like enjoying games for what they are, not what third parties make out of them.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Puck.3697]

Just now, Fueki.4753 said:

There#s always been that sound that indicate a stealth enemy is nearby. Maybe you should make a Horde character and take it to Cataclysm's version of the Azshara map to encounter the hidden Night Elves to hear the sound. If that doesn't count as an audio clue to you, literally nothing does

In pve yes, i don't think pvp has the same thing tho I've never heard the noise occur when a stealthed player is near you. 

[Puck.3697]

21 hours ago, Bern.9613 said:

How about, the nerf to shadow arts ended this. No more 50% increased speed. No more hp regen. No more initiative regen. No more chaining stealth with heal. No more increased base damage and the damage multiplier by 100%. No more increased base healing by 100% and the heal multiplier by 60%. No more life stealing base damage of 320. Reduced dagger storm power coefficient from 1.0 to 0.4 in PvP and WvW. So yea, old video that has no bearing on what this topic is about

You want thief completely gutted in spvp for the sake of killing its ability to play WvWvW incorrectly. As it isnt balanced for 1v1s but large scale pvp which its already terrible at? 

Itd be complete garbage in spvp if these nerfs occurred lol. You'd delete the only viable way thief can be played lol. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Fueki.4753]

2 minutes ago, Puck.3697 said:

In pve yes, i don't think pvp has the same thing tho I've never heard the noise occur when a stealthed player is near you. 

While I can't say anything about Arena or War Mode, I often heard it before getting flat-lined on Open World PvP servers (before they introduced War Mode) and in Battlegrounds.

Edited November 5, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Puck.3697]

14 minutes ago, Fueki.4753 said:

While I can't say anything about Arena or War Mode, I often heard it before getting flat-lined on Open World PvP servers (before they introduced War Mode) and in Battlegrounds

I didnt rly engage with open world pvp prior warmode, so I can't vouch there, I never heard anything when a rogue went for me however 

No idea on that front really. I will say tho WoW has perma stealth + in combat access to several perma stealths however, WoWs stealth is a heck lot stronger then gw2s. 

I do remember you used to see a outline of tbe rogue when nearby, I think this now only occurs if the rogues alot lower then you. Now if equal level you wont see that outlier u just get smashed 😂😂 

Players typically use AoEs to knock thief's out of stealth. 

But either way, hard nerfing like this will destroy thief entirely, not balance it and we are discussing 1v1ing in WvWvW, something the games never been balanced around. Thief ain't great at WvWvWs intended gameplay. 

Same as WoW doesnt balance its 1v1s or open world ganking, but rogues will 1v1 and absolutely slaughter players in this regard. 

I mean this would leave thief in dire need of a rework (although I'd argue it already needs one). Completely gutting a class in every other form doesn't seem like a good option. 

Edited November 5, 2023 by Puck.3697

[Jitters.9401]

12 hours ago, Puck.3697 said:

Players typically use AoEs to knock thief's out of stealth

No they do not.

First Thing to Remember. 

THIEF IS ALWAYS GETTING THAT FIRST HIT. (I put in caps so it isnt missed) . If you attack a thief first they just run away. 

The CONCEPT is to use aoe's to knock a thief out of stealth.

Because if this was actually a viable solution then we (yes,  everyone in wvw) would not be seeing thieves being chased by 3,4,5 etc. People and still getting away after they murder someone. 

Here is what I did in the past.  

"Steal" into "cloak and dagger", "dodge roll" through my opponent, he tries to defend but I am already behind him again. He fails. The dodge role negated his defensive attack.

Doesn't matter as to much what he tries.  As he moves for those few seconds, I move. 

Then another cloak and dagger and roll through. 

It is pretty simple.  If they teleport. I shadowstep to them. 

But if you are good....

My thief is a mule now, but once in awhile I take him for a run. I play condition. 

It was a fairly well known streamer (on dps thief) that attacked me from out of nowhere., but My condition thief is specifically made to kill thieves.

He lasted about 7 seconds. 

But what I can do on my thief to enemy thieves, I cannot come even close to do with any other wvw avatar I have.

The Reailty Is:

People can talk about how you defend against stealth exploiting thieves till they turn blue in the face, but we have all seen the  reality of most players trying with futility to fight that high dps stealth thief. 

 

 

 

[Bigpapasmurf.5623]

On 10/11/2023 at 3:18 PM, Sleepwalker.1398 said:

In and out of stealth and not doing much you say. Pls go fight the [PNOY] Deadeye from FA and then post us a clip of how great that is.

 

HEYYYYY I might have some clips vs this one....some when im on my Druid and on my DE. Gotta dig em up now to see.

[ZeroTheRuler.7415]

On 11/2/2023 at 9:30 PM, Jitters.9401 said:

When you get hit by a cloak and dagger (#5 dagger skill) that does 5400+damage threat after the thief de-stealths, just so he can go back into stealth again.

 

De-stealth with a fraction of a second to stealth again. Dodge roll to avoid any retaliation, 5k cloak and dagger again.

 

Rinse. Repeat. Game over.

Easy peasy. Very miniscule risk for the highest gain. 

 Not exactly... If a stealth attack actually lands, a "revealed" de-buff is applied on the attacker for at least 3-4 seconds depending on the game mode for competitive modes. You can't instantly stealth right after.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Revealed

Quote

Revealed is an effect applied when stealth is broken by a player either striking a target with power damage or exiting a Shadow Refuge circle prematurely. Various skills, listed below, apply revealed on enemy players in WvW and PvP.

When applied as a result of breaking stealth, the effect lasts 3 seconds in PvE and WvW and 4 seconds in Structured PvP. An "Immune" message pops up if an attempt to stealth is made during that time. This effect prevents people from repeatedly attacking and then using stealth before the enemy can respond. When this effect is applied to a target that is in stealth, it will end the stealth effect, rendering the target visible immediately.

Allowing stealth to end normally without attacking will not apply the Revealed effect.

Players under the effect of Revealed have a pair of shining feline-like eyes above their heads.

Also it sounds like you are running a glass build if 5.4k is "a lot". Generally full glass requires a little more skill, especially vs people who sufficiently good at PvP or WvW. I would suggest reading up on classes you have difficulty with in order to improve yourself.

Edited November 8, 2023 by ZeroTheRuler.7415

[Sweetbread.3678]

Man this game really does have the worst designed stealth mechanic in gaming history. It always makes me laugh when I think about how Anet wasted so much money and went so all in on that big esports push when it's like, "Yo dude nobody wants to play your pvp that has multiple classes who's archetype can be summed up as 'Invisible dou---bag with huge burst damage that's virtually impossible to punish.'" Like just the straight up absurdity of trying to make a competitive pvp game while also making classes that are *100% by design* as horrible and frustrating to play against as possible, because it "fits their class theme" or some bullkitten. I mean, good god man, how did this kitten ever make it to even the beta with nobody going "Hey maybe it isn't a great mechanic idea for there to be a long-duration, spammable, in-combat, total invisibility with virtually no real counterplay for the defending party besides blindly flailing and hoping for a hit so that they can play makeshift Battleship with the combat log?"

 

6 hours ago, ZeroTheRuler.7415 said:

Also it sounds like you are running a glass build if 5.4k is "a lot". Generally full glass requires a little more skill, especially vs people who sufficiently good at PvP or WvW. I would suggest reading up on classes you have difficulty with in order to improve yourself.

You know what really makes glass builds require more skill? Actually dealing with the consequences of being glass by not being completely invisible 80% of the time.