Mad King's Labyrinth/Lab Private Instance

[bullsxtwo.1027]

Since the tech for it is now available I would suggest adding the option to create a private instance for Lab, I have found there are a lot of times when I command a squad that there are some new players who don't know about lab farm that run around and randomly opening doors.

As a commander, I end up feeling torn between trying to ensure that everyone gets loot and not wanting to force random players to "obey the community rules". As it is right now you are bound to always end up with conflict between those who are simply exploring and those farming, which is very unlike what GW2 usually do. Even if I as a commander were to ignore them, others in the squad tend to get annoyed and complain.

Allowing us to create our own instances just like DS and the Tower of Nightmares seems like an obvious and easy solution.

[FalanuLachance.4576]

It's simple: Don't bother with randomly opened doors and we newbies come running towards you. Lesson learnt, help appreciated and loot secured.

Edited October 23, 2023 by FalanuLachance.4576

[bullsxtwo.1027]

1 minute ago, FalanuLachance.4576 said:

It's simple: Don't bother with randomly opened doors and we newbies come running towards you. Lesson learnt, help appreciated and loot secured.

The problem is that many just keep opening doors and killing everything alone, and since the doors have a respawn timer it often results in situations where you run out of doors and subsequently, everyone gets less loot.

[PepeLePewPew.2107]

A better solution would be to just chill and let people play the game as they wish.  You want the game to be redesigned around a sort of life-hack method of roaming in a group, giving you command of not just the group but of the entire map.  Personally, I find it enjoyable to roam alone through the spooky maze running into surprises like Steve now and then.  You can easily solo the green doors AS THEY ARE DESIGNED.  I'd say it's working as intended and you should stop trying to control other players.  I've experienced pauses in door respawns, but for the most part there are plenty to go around for solo players and groups.  I prefer a messy wander with occasional group-ups for Steve or purple doors to a regimented group run with no danger.  I don't begrudge those groups their fun, let me have mine.

[FalanuLachance.4576]

38 minutes ago, bullsxtwo.1027 said:

The problem is that many just keep opening doors and killing everything alone, and since the doors have a respawn timer it often results in situations where you run out of doors and subsequently, everyone gets less loot.

Guild Wars 2, where Gold/hour beats social play.

[bullsxtwo.1027]

54 minutes ago, PepeLePewPew.2107 said:

A better solution would be to just chill and let people play the game as they wish.  You want the game to be redesigned around a sort of life-hack method of roaming in a group, giving you command of not just the group but of the entire map.  Personally, I find it enjoyable to roam alone through the spooky maze running into surprises like Steve now and then.  You can easily solo the green doors AS THEY ARE DESIGNED.  I'd say it's working as intended and you should stop trying to control other players.  I've experienced pauses in door respawns, but for the most part there are plenty to go around for solo players and groups.  I prefer a messy wander with occasional group-ups for Steve or purple doors to a regimented group run with no danger.  I don't begrudge those groups their fun, let me have mine.

I distinctly said I did NOT want to force anyone to play the same way as I. What I'm proposing is a solution so that those who want to play as a group can, just as in Dragonstorm you can create a private instance for organised squads, separate from the public one.

I honestly don't get why you are against it, it's a simple change that wouldn't affect you in any way. For one you don't seem to understand how the doors work, the green doors are the ones the larger groups want as they give more rewards based on the number of players as they scale with the number of players. To force groups to play around you is not better than them forcing you to play with them, selfish.

 

1 hour ago, FalanuLachance.4576 said:

Guild Wars 2, where Gold/hour beats social play.

Ah yes, because playing entirely alone, not engaging with the rest is very social.
And are you saying that other players aren't allowed to earn gold, that they should solely play without any goal besides chatting?
 

I'm sorry if I come off as rude, but you are honestly making some quite annoying and honestly rude statements of your own. I find it to be in bad faith.

[Peregrine Falcon.5496]

4 minutes ago, bullsxtwo.1027 said:

I distinctly said I did NOT want to force anyone to play the same way as I. What I'm proposing is a solution so that those who want to play as a group can, just as in Dragonstorm you can create a private instance for organised squads, separate from the public one.

People were asking for Commanders to be able to create a private instance for their squad during End of Dragons for the Dragon's End meta, during Living World Season 4 for the Dragonfall meta, and even way back during Heart of Thorns for the Dragon's Stand meta. There were probably other times as well. And ArenaNet's been ignoring those requests since at least Heart of Thorns.

13 minutes ago, bullsxtwo.1027 said:

I'm sorry if I come off as rude, but you are honestly making some quite annoying and honestly rude statements of your own. I find it to be in bad faith.

It's not you. There's a group of people who live on the forums and attack anyone who doesn't love every single little thing about the game, who asks for any change, dislikes any minor little thing about the game, or dislikes anything the devs have done. There are even some who attack people in the bug reporting forum for the highly offensive crime of reporting bugs. So don't sweat it, it isn't you.

[PepeLePewPew.2107]

The Labyrinth is more like an instanced open world event than a meta, so apples and oranges.  A better analogy:  A guild is doing an open world event when a few solo players join in.  The commander and some other guild members then yell at the solo players insisting that they go away or switch servers.  This is actually what happens in the Labyrinth, just to put some perspective on who is doing the attacking here.

I would argue that the op's solution is simply unnecessary.   There is plenty of fun for all and no need to control how others play.  Some like to be efficiency experts on loot, some enjoy exploration.

 

[bullsxtwo.1027]

15 minutes ago, PepeLePewPew.2107 said:

The Labyrinth is more like an instanced open world event than a meta, so apples and oranges.  A better analogy:  A guild is doing an open world event when a few solo players join in.  The commander and some other guild members then yell at the solo players insisting that they go away or switch servers.  This is actually what happens in the Labyrinth, just to put some perspective on who is doing the attacking here.

I would argue that the op's solution is simply unnecessary.   There is plenty of fun for all and no need to control how others play.  Some like to be efficiency experts on loot, some enjoy exploration.

 

You are definitely not wrong that it's closer to an open world than a meta. It's just that you can effectively "grief" one another, which is very anti-gw2 as it's a lot like kill stealing in other games. There simply isn't enough for everyone.

As for the yelling to go away part, there have definitely been times where this becomes an issue, like when the underwater skimmer mastery was released and you were required to fail an event to unlock it but a bunch of randoms would always complete it, similar was the Zhaitan legendary that required a failed event. Or more recently the Valdhertz crypts which required people to leave it so that it would reset and allow others to complete it and yet a bunch afked in it. Tequtle and the shatterer tend to have a similar issue as well.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

On 10/23/2023 at 3:20 PM, bullsxtwo.1027 said:

The problem is that many just keep opening doors and killing everything alone, and since the doors have a respawn timer it often results in situations where you run out of doors and subsequently, everyone gets less loot.

You are confusing efficiency when you talk about respawn time for doors and players that only are there to do normal farming without having efficiency in mind. After all there are enough NPCs around to kill in between doors and also farming nodes, so you still get loot from doing something else then open doors. There are also achievements that newer player might want to finish up, so shared instance (from Public instance) is better then Private Instance.

MMO are built on shared content which means that map instance (in this case Lab) are public for everybody that entering that map instance. LFG is a tool to get player that have the same goal to be on the same instance, but without looking out other player with other goals that are moved into the same instance.

Private Instance like Dragonstorm (which came much later with IBS) are something that have been added with a timer for Public Instance (Private can only be entered if there is enough player in your squad), Lab on the other hand isn't on any scheduled timer (and have limit instead of duration as it is part of Festival which last 2-3 weeks).

[Solvar.7953]

It does seem like there would likely be some bad (from Anets PoV) effects of letting people make private instances of maps.  In case of labyrinth, one could do then run (open all the doors), then switch to a new private instance with all doors to be opened again, which would increase rewards.  And they would have to add some logic in to make sure people don't try to abuse their servers by making private instances, entering them while they try to get a squad forming, and doing little else, such that there are now a lot more instances running than now.

 

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 10/23/2023 at 9:10 AM, bullsxtwo.1027 said:

Since the tech for it is now available I would suggest adding the option to create a private instance for Lab, I have found there are a lot of times when I command a squad that there are some new players who don't know about lab farm that run around and randomly opening doors.

So your complaint is that other people having solo fun (fun being the purpose of an in-game festival) is interfering with your command-structured loot farming.

Get over yourself.

[bullsxtwo.1027]

4 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

So your complaint is that other people having solo fun (fun being the purpose of an in-game festival) is interfering with your command-structured loot farming.

Get over yourself.

Seriously, is it really that hard to read what I actually wrote? Learn to properly read everything and don't cherry-pick...

4 hours ago, Solvar.7953 said:

It does seem like there would likely be some bad (from Anets PoV) effects of letting people make private instances of maps.  In case of labyrinth, one could do then run (open all the doors), then switch to a new private instance with all doors to be opened again, which would increase rewards.  And they would have to add some logic in to make sure people don't try to abuse their servers by making private instances, entering them while they try to get a squad forming, and doing little else, such that there are now a lot more instances running than now.

 

Hey, look an actually well-thought-out counterargument.

5 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

You are confusing efficiency when you talk about respawn time for doors and players that only are there to do normal farming without having efficiency in mind. After all there are enough NPCs around to kill in between doors and also farming nodes, so you still get loot from doing something else then open doors. There are also achievements that newer player might want to finish up, so shared instance (from Public instance) is better then Private Instance.

MMO are built on shared content which means that map instance (in this case Lab) are public for everybody that entering that map instance. LFG is a tool to get player that have the same goal to be on the same instance, but without looking out other player with other goals that are moved into the same instance.

Private Instance like Dragonstorm (which came much later with IBS) are something that have been added with a timer for Public Instance (Private can only be entered if there is enough player in your squad), Lab on the other hand isn't on any scheduled timer (and have limit instead of duration as it is part of Festival which last 2-3 weeks).

You get way less, a majority of loot comes from green doors. And the random enemies around the map can be cleared out way faster than the door respawns, leaving no enemies whatsoever.

Yeah, because raids, guild missions, dungeons, strikes etc aren't a thing and are definitely no major part of MMOs.

I honestly have no clue what achievements have to do with anything... If nothing else it would make it easier to finish the achievements since they wouldn't have to worry about others getting in the way and if they need help, just ask someone.

[Teknomancer.4895]

18 minutes ago, bullsxtwo.1027 said:

Seriously, is it really that hard to read what I actually wrote? Learn to properly read everything and don't cherry-pick...

I did read what you actually wrote, and picked a representative remark which summed up your argument as a whole. That being that solo players doing their own thing are "griefing" your regimented loot farming, because they're playing in a way of which you disapprove. Everything else you wrote is filler.

Private instances are unlikely to ever happen for a festival, which by definition is a public event. That leaves us with the labyrinth as it is, warts and all.

And did you ever stop to consider that your complaint goes both ways? What about the people who are just randomly running around in there for fun (because, you know, festival), and then some brainless zerg with a cat tag runs in, stomps the loot out of everything in sight and then takes off to do the next spot -- leaving nothing for the solo player to do except wait for everything to respawn? Screw those solo hippies, what they need is a tour in your Loot Army?

Guess we know whose house needs the eggs and TP treatment this year.

[Farohna.6247]

People....if there is a commander or mentor tag on a map PLEASE join or follow them and/or do NOT open doors, out of courtesy...I do!   If you are on a a map without a comm or mentor, have at it.  To crazy opening doors and slaughtering mobs...I do.   

Unfortunately, there's always someone who doesn't have good game etiquette or maybe is unfamiliar with how it works, and some are just...rude.  This is not overwhelming, no need to change it, but hey let's be nice out there.  Sorry for groups who have people opening ahead of time.... it's lame.

[bullsxtwo.1027]

13 minutes ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I did read what you actually wrote, and picked a representative remark which summed up your argument as a whole. That being that solo players doing their own thing are "griefing" your regimented loot farming, because they're playing in a way of which you disapprove. Everything else you wrote is filler.

Private instances are unlikely to ever happen for a festival, which by definition is a public event. That leaves us with the labyrinth as it is, warts and all.

And did you ever stop to consider that your complaint goes both ways? What about the people who are just randomly running around in there for fun (because, you know, festival), and then some brainless zerg with a cat tag runs in, stomps the loot out of everything in sight and then takes off to do the next spot -- leaving nothing for the solo player to do except wait for everything to respawn? Screw those solo hippies, what they need is a tour in your Loot Army?

Guess we know whose house needs the eggs and TP treatment this year.

You are literally proving yourself wrong in that you read it...

"and not wanting to force random players to "obey the community rules". As it is right now you are bound to always end up with conflict between those who are simply exploring and those farming, which is very unlike what GW2 usually do. Even if I as a commander were to ignore them, others in the squad tend to get annoyed and complain."

Ah yes, how would we possibly solve the issue of "brainless zerg with a cat tag runs in, stomps the loot out of everything in sight and then takes off to do the next spot -- leaving nothing for the solo player to do except wait for everything to respawn"? IDK, maybe make it so that they don't have to fight each other over enemies, but how would you possibly do that? There definitely isn't a method to separate them in such a way that both get what they want... Nooo~ that's impossible...

[PepeLePewPew.2107]

2 hours ago, Farohna.6247 said:

People....if there is a commander or mentor tag on a map PLEASE join or follow them

 

Mad King sez:  Bullies can be SO tiresome.  

Your "community rules" are all in your head.  Seriously, chill and just play the game.  Ignore solo players as they ignore you.  Etiquette.

Edited October 25, 2023 by PepeLePewPew.2107

[draxynnic.3719]

3 hours ago, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I did read what you actually wrote, and picked a representative remark which summed up your argument as a whole. That being that solo players doing their own thing are "griefing" your regimented loot farming, because they're playing in a way of which you disapprove. Everything else you wrote is filler.

Private instances are unlikely to ever happen for a festival, which by definition is a public event. That leaves us with the labyrinth as it is, warts and all.

And did you ever stop to consider that your complaint goes both ways? What about the people who are just randomly running around in there for fun (because, you know, festival), and then some brainless zerg with a cat tag runs in, stomps the loot out of everything in sight and then takes off to do the next spot -- leaving nothing for the solo player to do except wait for everything to respawn? Screw those solo hippies, what they need is a tour in your Loot Army?

Guess we know whose house needs the eggs and TP treatment this year.

Like someone else said, the OP's proposal would help to resolve that as well. Plus, it's a lot easier for someone who wants a solo lab experience to switch maps if there's a commander tag on the map than for a squad to be able to switch maps because there's a few solo players opening doors.

Edited October 25, 2023 by draxynnic.3719

[Eekasqueak.7850]

Might be an issue of server architecture, probably not a high dev priority regardless. 

[Solvar.7953]

Given this is the only situation where there is likely need for players to get their own private instance of a map (there could be some other cases I'm not aware of - I know that there used to be multi loot for auric basin and this would make something like that easier), I suspect there is little desire for Anet to spend any resources on it.

In fact, as I think about it, if this was allowed for all maps, it would likely get abused for farming, as resource nodes tends to be per map (so if you are doing an iron loop and managed to get on a fresh map, those nodes are refreshed).  Likewise, those farming monsters for resources, it would make an easy way for those to refresh.

 

[Zebulous.2934]

For awhile there were people complaining about the EoD metas.  Some folks were exploring or fishing and then they would get harassed by a squad who wanted the map for themselves.  The squad wanted more of their members on the map but the randoms were in the way.

I am sure that the explorers and fishers would have liked a map free from a meta squad.  Don't want to lose those fishing stacks, especially if you started fishing before the meta started.

Squads starting their own maps seems reasonable to me.

It could also stop a map from randomly closing during a pre-meta chain because the random folks randomly left.  I keep hearing about metas failing because of long pre-events and the map deciding to close.

The strike mission setup with public instances and private instances sounds good to me.  Folks can't complain about each other if they never meet in the first place.

[ShadowCatz.8437]

45 minutes ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

[...]

Folks can't complain about each other if they never meet in the first place.

There are nothing in GW2 that haven't been a reason to complain about as far as I have been on this forum in all those years.

Complains about people open doors and commanders that dislike players that are on Lab, but not in their group isn't something new. It have existed since the start of Labs existence. 

[Zebulous.2934]

2 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

There are nothing in GW2 that haven't been a reason to complain about as far as I have been on this forum in all those years.

Complains about people open doors and commanders that dislike players that are on Lab, but not in their group isn't something new. It have existed since the start of Labs existence. 

Exactly.  With private instances the touchy squads will never meet the randos.  The squad that doesn't want random interference will be isolated away where it can't cause trouble.  The issue can be finally solved! 

[Teknomancer.4895]

On 10/25/2023 at 1:27 PM, Solvar.7953 said:

it would likely get abused for farming, as resource nodes tends to be per map (so if you are doing an iron loop and managed to get on a fresh map, those nodes are refreshed).  Likewise, those farming monsters for resources, it would make an easy way for those to refresh.

Oh, it would certainly get abused for farming; that's the whole reason for the request. That's also probably the main reason it is the way it is, but even though it might resolve the conflict:

4 hours ago, Zebulous.2934 said:

Folks can't complain about each other if they never meet in the first place.

That solidly faceplants into this much more basic point I raised earlier:

On 10/24/2023 at 7:56 PM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

Private instances are unlikely to ever happen for a festival, which by definition is a public event. That leaves us with the labyrinth as it is, warts and all.

It's been the same open public map since 2012 and as mentioned above, people have been whining about this the whole time:

2 hours ago, ShadowCatz.8437 said:

Complains about people open doors and commanders that dislike players that are on Lab, but not in their group isn't something new. It have existed since the start of Labs existence. 

That obviously means that this is not a new issue of which they are unaware, and would seem to make it quite clear that if they were going to allow private instances, they would have done so by now.

What happens if you approach it from that perspective, while also taking into account their years-long lack of action on innumerable, objectively broken game elements which are live year-round? You realize that ANet is not going to change a signature part of its oldest annual festival just so some people can squeeze even more loot out of what is already a gold mine.

[DragonNero.4259]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:56 PM, Teknomancer.4895 said:

I did read what you actually wrote, and picked a representative remark which summed up your argument as a whole. That being that solo players doing their own thing are "griefing" your regimented loot farming, because they're playing in a way of which you disapprove. Everything else you wrote is filler.

Private instances are unlikely to ever happen for a festival, which by definition is a public event. That leaves us with the labyrinth as it is, warts and all.

And did you ever stop to consider that your complaint goes both ways? What about the people who are just randomly running around in there for fun (because, you know, festival), and then some brainless zerg with a cat tag runs in, stomps the loot out of everything in sight and then takes off to do the next spot -- leaving nothing for the solo player to do except wait for everything to respawn? Screw those solo hippies, what they need is a tour in your Loot Army?

Guess we know whose house needs the eggs and TP treatment this year.

Got it well egg and tp your house in a few days. More over the point as someone whos been running a tag in lab for years yes it does get frustrating having to constantly ask new players to not open doors and just move with the tag as guess what everyone gets more loot that way and you know what majority of new players respond with after running for a bit yes i was correct they do get more loot running with the group and get more halloween goodies. The only real people who lose out in this situation is the loser trolls that feel the need despite being asked not to that run ahead and open the doors anyways which begs the question as your so aganst private instances so you dont have squads and solos fighting over doors whats wrong with private instances? Does it upset you that much you wont be able to run ahead of squads opening doors and killing everything before others can get there? You literaly lose nothing as a solo player if commanders can make their own instances for say their big guilds if they wana do a guild run of lab or commanders and people that just wana zerg everything and earn as much gold/loot as possible in fact it benefits solos more as then theres a less chance of having to contend with a zerg for doors.