Nov 28 Thief Balance

[Tails.9372]

Reducing the ini cost of Unload to 3 should eliminate the burden it puts on other skills and trait choices, not the most elegant solution to the problem but it does solve some of the main issues the weapon set is suffering from so credit where credit is due.

On 10/28/2023 at 2:16 AM, BobbyT.7192 said:

They really are doubling down on the pew pew spam, they don't think that maybe they should look pistol 2 instead?

Why "instead"? If there are multiple things that could use improvement then there are multiple things that should be improved. This is not an "either or" situation. It's not even that hard to give Bola Shot a purpose either, just make it a disengage. Mobility is one of the main things missing from the weapon set and this would solve both issues.

Edited November 9, 2023 by Tails.9372

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

3 hours ago, Doggie.3184 said:

Do it to Signet of Shadows as it's one of the most boring Signet actives in game. We have a billion other ways to blind, weaken and vuln.

But it's Daredevil and supposed to be GW1 style brawler Assassin with no need for Stealth, just defensive offensiveness and speed. Give it actual good traits for that and get rid of dodge choice traits and put all the dodge mechanics onto the F bar to make room for better traits.

id love to be a bullet while using Dash that would interact with everyones combo fields as a projectile finisher. the thing is wed have to dodge into the field and NOT deal damage...so wed be applying raw conditions without actually dealing damage to enemies. dodge through light field? = give everyone healing, dodge through smoke field?=blind enemies you pass through, dodge though poison fields?=poison enemies you dash through

[Geriatrics.5823]

Quote

The improvements to staff are focused on Debilitating Arc and Dust Strike to give these skills a more unique identity and application

Between the Dust Strike cone nerf, the auto attack nerf, and a telegraphed 8 initiative leap, I don't understand what they were thinking if those are actually intended as "improvements". Dust Strike's fast poke carries staff against actually decent opponents that know how to abuse the animation locking and expensive initiative costs of other defensive staff skills, and nerfing the range on that skill is devastating to those matchups because you want the blind/weakness application before you're trading in melee range. Auto attack reflects, while difficult to use effectively, at least offered some protection to staff that didn't rely on initiative, and I don't think having reflect on demand is worth that trade off. Helmet Breaker, on top of being insanely expensive in terms of initiative, completely opens you up to counter pressure from any sources of blind/aegis/stability in the game.

I want to huff the copium, but these changes seem more harmful than helpful as a longtime staff player.

Edited November 2, 2023 by Geriatrics.5823

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

7 hours ago, Geriatrics.5823 said:

Between the Dust Strike cone nerf, the auto attack nerf, and a telegraphed 8 initiative leap, I don't understand what they were thinking if those are actually intended as "improvements". Dust Strike's fast poke carries staff against actually decent opponents that know how to abuse the animation locking and expensive initiative costs of other defensive staff skills, and nerfing the range on that skill is devastating to those matchups. Auto attack reflects, while difficult to use effectively, at least offered some protection to staff that didn't rely on initiative, and I don't think having reflect on demand is worth that trade off. Helmet Breaker, on top of being insanely expensive in terms of initiative, completely opens you up to counter pressure from any sources of blind/aegis/stability in the game.

I want to huff the copium, but these changes seem more harmful than helpful as a longtime staff player.

what about the 1000 range on scorpion wire, its even going to be harder to force engagements now...goodbye wvw wall pulls

 

[Skullsox.9162]

Man, another meh balance  for thief , I guess you can RP better now? Anet just has no clue what to do with thief .

Guess I'll just keep my thief main shelfed....again

[sorry.5746]

i dont get how they call this a staff improvement when everything i see is nerf specially for wvw, the dust strike was a really good skill if you know how to use it, the new one looks awful and too costly, i mean we literaly got the same effect on the auto attack but now we need to pay 4 initiative for a skill that makes nearly no damage, got a 180 aoe for 1 sec reflect (lol). For this we lost a 600 range skill (our only mid range skill),  the 8 vulnerability stack, and a great skill to blind multiple target. 

I really dont get the change on staff, it synergize with nothing, we didn't ask for it and dont want it, if they really want to improve staff, then remake the 3 animation so your character isn't stuck for a second after using it, or give us back the combo vault shadowstep (good old time with vault at 5 init).

[ThiefPlayer.1823]

On 11/2/2023 at 10:52 AM, Geriatrics.5823 said:

Between the Dust Strike cone nerf, the auto attack nerf, and a telegraphed 8 initiative leap, I don't understand what they were thinking if those are actually intended as "improvements". Dust Strike's fast poke carries staff against actually decent opponents that know how to abuse the animation locking and expensive initiative costs of other defensive staff skills, and nerfing the range on that skill is devastating to those matchups because you want the blind/weakness application before you're trading in melee range. Auto attack reflects, while difficult to use effectively, at least offered some protection to staff that didn't rely on initiative, and I don't think having reflect on demand is worth that trade off. Helmet Breaker, on top of being insanely expensive in terms of initiative, completely opens you up to counter pressure from any sources of blind/aegis/stability in the igame.

I want to huff the copium, but these changes seem more harmful than helpful as a longtime staff player.

 

3 minutes ago, sorry.5746 said:

i dont get how they call this a staff improvement when everything i see is nerf specially for wvw, the dust strike was a really good skill if you know how to use it, the new one looks awful and too costly, i mean we literaly got the same effect on the auto attack but now we need to pay 4 initiative for a skill that makes nearly no damage, got a 180 aoe for 1 sec reflect (lol). For this we lost a 600 range skill (our only mid range skill),  the 8 vulnerability stack, and a great skill to blind multiple target. 

I really dont get the change on staff, it synergize with nothing, we didn't ask for it and dont want it, if they really want to improve staff, then remake the 3 animation so your character isn't stuck for a second after using it, or give us back the combo vault shadowstep (good old time with vault at 5 init).

Everything is on this two post, if you're a long time playing thief in WvW you know this will harm the staff players a lot.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

No fixes to trickery dependency, again. So core problems aren't getting fixed still.

[Chips.7968]

Need to play the changes to see how they work out. No problem with doing that.

It's just whether it "keeps up" (if it keeps up) with everything else... 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

Why do we need to dodge to obtain a buff. Bounding dodger seems counter productive. Other classes don't have this as bad. Forcing others to expend a defense to gain an offense is bad design. Even by relic standards.

 

Still pissed scorpion wire gets a range reduction when it barely saw any use given the velocity and inability to proc with basilisk venom.

 

Now that it's getting a range reduction, how we gonna help pull wall campers and such in competitive modes?

 

In deadeye rifle, scorpion wire works really well with landing scorpion wire in tandem with spotters shot for ranged harrassment. At 1k range this isn't going to do anything. It doesn't even arc like an arrow should and falls short after 1500 units!

Edited November 7, 2023 by Lithril Ashwalker.6230

[Chips.7968]

13 hours ago, Lithril Ashwalker.6230 said:

Still pissed scorpion wire gets a range reduction when it barely saw any use given the velocity and inability to proc with basilisk venom.

 

Now that it's getting a range reduction, how we gonna help pull wall campers and such in competitive modes?

 

Wait, where's this come from? I don't see it in the update notes whatsoever.

Edited November 7, 2023 by Chips.7968

[Cool Boy.2195]

For the love of god, please just change some of the Thief/Daredevil traits instead of these small QoL changes. 

PLEASE Change Havoc Specialist. Why am I playing a Dodge class that can't dodge during PVE encounters?
I have 3 endurance bars For SHOW, since the minute I gain more than 1 endurance bar, my damage drops off like a cliff. 

Just make it so we get the damage bonus for not having full Endurance and that's it. Or the damage bonus cut-off starts at having 2 endurance bars, not 1. 

This class has so many Janky traits and terrible animation locks. Like using Dagger traits on Power Staff Daredevil just so it can keep up with other classes. 

They made Vindicator, a better version of Daredevil with a GS and complete control of movement when they dodge. Even Willbender is a better "thief" than Thief with twice the mobility and none of the Jank.
I just want ANet to actually acknowledge this class in PVE instead of giving it light taps on the kitten every 6 months. 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

8 minutes ago, Cool Boy.2195 said:

For the love of god, please just change some of the Thief/Daredevil traits instead of these small QoL changes. 

PLEASE Change Havoc Specialist. Why am I playing a Dodge class that can't dodge during PVE encounters?
I have 3 endurance bars For SHOW, since the minute I gain more than 1 endurance bar, my damage drops off like a cliff. 

Just make it so we get the damage bonus for not having full Endurance and that's it. Or the damage bonus cut-off starts at having 2 endurance bars, not 1. 

This class has so many Janky traits and terrible animation locks. Like using Dagger traits on Power Staff Daredevil just so it can keep up with other classes. 

They made Vindicator, a better version of Daredevil with a GS and complete control of movement when they dodge. Even Willbender is a better "thief" than Thief with twice the mobility and none of the Jank.
I just want ANet to actually acknowledge this class in PVE instead of giving it light taps on the kitten every 6 months. 

see this! this is what im saying, why do i have to expend endurance to maintain damage...its bad design

[Axelteas.7192]

The initiative cost reduction of unload is a fraud! they promised to reduce the cost from 5 to 3.

Now it still costs 5 points but the skill regenerates 2 points.

This is not as good as they promised because it takes 2 seconds to regenerate the 2 points of initiative.

[emtea.6931]

5 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

The initiative cost reduction of unload is a fraud! they promised to reduce the cost from 5 to 3.

Now it still costs 5 points but the skill regenerates 2 points.

This is not as good as they promised because it takes 2 seconds to regenerate the 2 points of initiative.

balance patch isn't till the 28th of Nov as per title. Latest patch does not include the up coming changes proposed (not promised, things may still change) 

[MATIC.9542]

On 11/7/2023 at 10:10 AM, Chips.7968 said:

Wait, where's this come from? I don't see it in the update notes whatsoever.

there was an attempt to be clever on page 1:

 

 

Quote

 

So here is a sneakpeak of the next upcoming balance changes:

• Impact Strike: This skills evades has been decreased by 0.25 seconds. Decreased the cooldown from 30 seconds to 27 seconds in PvP and WvW.
• Scorpion Wire: The range has been reduced from 1200 to 1000. Has now a count recharge of 19,5 seconds from 20 seconds. Power-coefficient has been increased from 0.01 to 0.1 in PvP and WvW only 
• Surprise Shot: Increased the immobilize from 2 seconds to 2,25 seconds in PvE only
• Pressure Striking: Decreased the duration of torment from 8 seconds to 5 seconds, now applies 3 stacks of torment instead of 2

And that's it see you in Fall 2024 for more minor and useless changes

Edited October 29 by Felices Bladewing.3914

 

 

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

On 11/7/2023 at 10:10 AM, Chips.7968 said:

Wait, where's this come from? I don't see it in the update notes whatsoever.

There was a post that I cannot seem to find regarding potential nerf to it amongst other changes. Unless I'm out of my mind and having nightmares of patch notes 📝 

[Venport.3925]

Man its gonna be hard coming back to the game with how hard they're gutting my staff, spinny autoattack reflects was my favorite thing to do 😞

[omega.3758]

Anet should REALLY get a developer who MAINS thief (proven with playtime, minimum 2500HRS+) to be part of the balance team cause it's obvious NOBODY in the balance team have a single clue on what to do with Thief. EVERYTHING from the weapons, skills, to trait lines are all over the place with little to no cohesion.

At this point they should just take Thief back to the drawing board and re-work it from the ground up. Doing a complete overhaul of base Thief and weapons, then followed by specializations and their weapons. But this time come up with a plan on what they want Thief to be and do. (A clear identity and purpose) Not a mish-mash that kind of works like we have right now with current Thief.

[Lithril Ashwalker.6230]

7 hours ago, omega.3758 said:

Anet should REALLY get a developer who MAINS thief (proven with playtime, minimum 2500HRS+) to be part of the balance team cause it's obvious NOBODY in the balance team have a single clue on what to do with Thief. EVERYTHING from the weapons, skills, to trait lines are all over the place with little to no cohesion.

At this point they should just take Thief back to the drawing board and re-work it from the ground up. Doing a complete overhaul of base Thief and weapons, then followed by specializations and their weapons. But this time come up with a plan on what they want Thief to be and do. (A clear identity and purpose) Not a mish-mash that kind of works like we have right now with current Thief.

We've said this till blue in the face. Preaching to choir bud

[Bunny.9834]

On 10/27/2023 at 1:46 PM, Stx.4857 said:

No Sword buffs lol.  I guess they really are okay with Sword being a completely dead weapon in PvE.  

For real tho. 

I don't get this "balance" team. 

They keep buffing the already popular weapons in PvE but kept leaving the dead ones for thief dead. 

and also

Acrobatics still is lame. 

[Doul.9314]

"balance" team? 

They probably do not maintain their own balance. 😆

[Skada.1362]

 

• Scorpion Wire: The range has been reduced from 1200 to 1000. Has now a count recharge of 19,5 seconds from 20 seconds. Power-coefficient has been increased from 0.01 to 0.1 in PvP and WvW only 

This is such a lame and boring nerf Anet, seriously. The skill was already quite unreliable and should've had its velocity buffed if anything. Why are you anti-fun Anet?

[kash.9213]

49 minutes ago, Skada.1362 said:

 

• Scorpion Wire: The range has been reduced from 1200 to 1000. Has now a count recharge of 19,5 seconds from 20 seconds. Power-coefficient has been increased from 0.01 to 0.1 in PvP and WvW only 

This is such a lame and boring nerf Anet, seriously. The skill was already quite unreliable and should've had its velocity buffed if anything. Why are you anti-fun Anet?

You basically have to be a master fly fisherman to get the angles, arches, snap backs, and momentum just right to not only connect, but to follow through and pull someone in a way that they won't just oops their way out of it and lol while they go about their business. 

[DioBrando.9643]

Honestly, I just wanted to see some number changes.😅 In raids, daredevil underperforms a little bit; it’s actually one of few power classes whose benchmark doesn’t reach 40k… Now, I guess making staff 4 reflect is neat, but these changes feel like for PVP/WVW only; something that I can maybe use in 1v1 encounters. But if you know a bit about daredevil rotation, you’re simply not going to use staff 3 or 4; it is a dps loss after all.
Personally, I was hoping they would *tweak the numbers* just a lit bit, you know, make auto attack, or staff 2, or fist furry damage numbers just 2-3% higher, and I think daredevil would be in a good, not underperforming state any more for PVE content!