New [Heightened Focus] Ain't It...

[UpsHigh.5724]

I'm gonna throw this in the megathread for old [Daring Dragon] as well just incase, by some miracle of God, someone on the balance team actually reads that feedback but

New [Heightened Focus] which reads: " Heightened Focus: This trait will now also recharge all burst skills when it activates. Reduced the cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. " if we assume it activates as-is on any hit on a sub-50% foe and still has a 12s icd with no visual indicator on either you or the opponent's side that this is up: This is going to be an absolute kitten-awful nightmare for everyone involved.

ANet look. I'm guessing that you're trying to take the "reset burst skill on-X" that people liked from old Daring Dragon and give it to other Warrior stuff. But c'mon. The problem with Heightened Focus right now, isn't really that it gives quickness. (Because Quickness is GOOD.) It's that the trait basically auto-procs when you don't want it to. With NewHF as it's worded or was explained this does nothing to solve the problem.

People Enjoyed Daring Dragon Because: IT WAS FUN. It forced you to get the "damage" in your power budget from your gear or other traits while giving you a unique controllable playstyle. It ruled. This is not that. This is just more of the same problem.

 

Suggestions: If you keep it on Discipline, please for the love of God, don't make it on-hit or on burst-hit. This is far to uncontrollable. PLEASE Either: Put it on-weapon Swap but make the 2nd hit hamstring your damage on that hit OR move it to Dual Wielding on Arms and have it reset your burst skill like 10 times in a row on elite use. (Or a reasonable amount.)

This otherwise makes 0 sense and solves nothing.

Edited October 28, 2023 by UpsHigh.5724

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Should have been something basic like swiftness clears slow/cripple or gain superspeed on weaponswap for 2 sec.

[Jzaku.9765]

Assuming the trigger remains the same - I see very little value in a Trait that essentially randomly procs sub 50% that resets your burst that you might not even have Adrenaline for. You pretty likely won't have enough Adrenaline on Bladesworn - that build is starved enough as-is even with Flow Stabilizer on your bar. 

The worst part is there will be benchmarks using this trait, rerunning untill they have a good enough scripted run where it procs on time, every time, exactly when they need it, muddying the waters on how good this trait actually is. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

It is going to cause salt in PvP because people will get back to back UD boosted DSlashes off.

[Verdict is Vengence.6912]

10 hours ago, UpsHigh.5724 said:

People Enjoyed Daring Dragon Because: IT WAS FUN.

This is the biggest issue regarding balance around warrior. Fun is always the first thing to go. When you look at other classes, you can feel the heart put behind the design and balance. With warrior, it always feels like someone is just looking at a bunch of numbers on a chart or just trying to get their work over with.

[FShoppe.6572]

3 hours ago, Verdict is Vengence.6912 said:

This is the biggest issue regarding balance around warrior. Fun is always the first thing to go. When you look at other classes, you can feel the heart put behind the design and balance. With warrior, it always feels like someone is just looking at a bunch of numbers on a chart or just trying to get their work over with.

Exactly this ^.

Just make it reset your next burst skill but have that burst do 1-tier less or do %30 less damage or cost 10adrenaline or 20 more flow to re-charge something. It's literally already in the game from old Daring Dragon.

[FShoppe.6572]

5 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

It is going to cause salt in PvP because people will get back to back UD boosted DSlashes off.

& Yeah? You know Unyielding Dragon costs 100 flow to cast if you charge it right, which is also the only Universe in which it actually even does anything close to possible damage right? Explain to me how you generate a full 100 flow in PvP in 8 seconds without dedication literally all of your utility skills to it. Go ahead. I'll wait.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

3 hours ago, FShoppe.6572 said:

& Yeah? You know Unyielding Dragon costs 100 flow to cast if you charge it right, which is also the only Universe in which it actually even does anything close to possible damage right? Explain to me how you generate a full 100 flow in PvP in 8 seconds without dedication literally all of your utility skills to it. Go ahead. I'll wait.

You know Flow stabilizer exists right?

[FellFalls.3750]

@Lan Deathrider.5910

You know math and time exist right?

I swear to God, the people that comment on Bladesworn have neve actually played it in their lives. The point that I believe this FShoppe dude is trying to make (correct me if I'm wrong here) is that You stated Lan, that "it will cause problems in pvp because you will be able to get 2 back-to-back Unyielding Dragon slashes off" but:

 As he said it's basically impossible to get any kind of value out of this because, (even with flow stabilizer,) it's next to impossible to generate the required 100 flow (for a full slash) in less than the 8 second cooldown that Dragon Trigger has even without the proposed Heightened Focus trait.

Math:

Flow Stabilizer generates: 8 flow/s + a flat 15s base if you already have fury. (So assuming you use a fury generating skill, let's say gunsaber 5 for example: (which has a 1/2s cast time w/ an aftercast of ~1/4s - it puts the fury on after this aftercast) and you IMMEDIATELY double tap Flow Stabilizer and by some miracle of God have it not bug out and actually give you the 30 flow and put +4flow/s for 8s on your bar. You still NEED TO WAIT THOSE 8 SECONDS or via math a minimum of 8 seconds = 40 flow generated (+1 for base-in combat = +5/s flow generation for 8s) and then will need to wait an additional 30 seconds for the rest of the flow.

 

However Bladesworn obviously has other sources of Flow generation. So let's then assume ABSOLUTE IDEAL CONDITIONS for [Flow Stabilizer] as you suggested:

+ You already have fury on your bar (somehow.)

+ You have not used any charges of flow stabilizer and have both up w/ Tactical Reload also up.

+ You have some additional +1s flow at least from a Bladesworn trait + another permanent (again "somehow") + 1flow/s source.

 

This still requires:

Double tapping Flow Stabilizer + casting Tactical Reload (1/2s cast time) = 45 base flow + 7flow/s for 8 seconds. = 55 which is JUST enough to get a 2nd dragon slash off. IF you can make all of those stars align. However, this necessitates dedicating both a double-count recharging utility slot as well as your elite slot to just this burst. And, more importantly, YOU STILL NEED TO WAIT THOSE 8 SECONDS TO GENERATE FLOW EVEN WITH THE BOOSTED RATE ANYWAY. And that's not even accounting for the 1s down-time from the cast time of Tactical Reload towards boosted generation. (So in reality you need to wait 8.5-9s.) Which, frankly if you want to do, fine. But that leaves you weak as a kitten after. Plenty of other classes, i.e. Burst mesmer etc. Function in similar ways. But this also presupposes that you have 100 flow built before this entire combo, without blowing any of these buttons for the first slash anyway, you still need to channel the 2nd UD slash to "load the bullets" so there's plenty of time for counter-play, and this still does nothing to take advantage of any potential Heightened Focus reset Heightened Focus Trait by virtue of Flow Stabilizer "simply existing" as you suggested.

 

| The Closest You Could Come: |

---------

The absolute ONLY way to get 2 back-to-back full UD slashes off, nearly instantly would be:

+ Have "To The Limit" on your bar.

+ Have "Fury Signet" on your bar.

+ Have "Flow Stabilizer" and Fury Already somehow on your bar.

+ Blow Tactical Reload for the double Flow Stabilizer proc + faster bullet loading.

Blow literally ALL of these ^ after landing the first slash. Hit them again (as the trait as-read in the notes / how it works in the game currently only triggers when you hit someone who is blow 50% health" - again more time off your 8s limit to do this) and charge and land the 2nd slash.

 

And again, that's if, by some miracle you manage to have HF currently ready, (somehow know that - because there's no way for either you or your opponent to know that this is up because it does not add any kind of visual indicator or buff to your bar,) and then have all these stars align and get the 2nd slash off. And that's still with a minimum 0.75s "faster" bullet charging, + working to hit the dude, + 1s cast time for To The Limit + 1/4s cast time for Fury Signet + 1/2s cast time for Tactical Reload. SO MINIMUM: 2.75-3s down time for one slash only AT BEST.

 

| What New [Heightened Focus] Should Do |

---------

How new [Heightened Focus] should work imo. The issue with the proposed HF change as I see it, is not WHAT it does but HOW it does it. In theory the trait is for nuking your opponent down below sub-50% and Quickness is quite a good boon for this. So disregarding balance power-level: The new HF trait essentially aims to fill the same function as the old one, but in a cooler way. However:

As Cal has stated, many many times, the automatic sub 50% traits, both offensive and defensive are problematic because there's very little both agency/ability to know that these traits are up' on part of the user and very little counter-play on the part of the opponent. Doubly so with something like new HF if it's a) only going to trigger randomly when you hit a sub 50% hp opponent -- resetting a skill that needs adrenaline / flow that you just blew all of your adrenaline / flow to use anyway and thus (see above ^ cannot even remotely capitalize on without HEAVILY devoting your power budget to it) and b) it has a 12s icd. Something that neither you nor your opponent will likely be aware of or be able to keep track of since there's no visual indicator or buff for this.

>> Thus: Assuming they would like to keep this trait functionally the way it is, but maybe introduce some of the actually fun functionality from old Daring Dragon that people seem to miss, because tying the trigger to randomly hitting the opponent is stupid, is to either:

 a) Have it simply reset each burst skill once but make you do 20% less damage on each. (= More Functionality, Less Damage, Since all of Warrior's current power balance AND functionality are on it's burst skills anyway.)

OR

 b) Have it Reset the next 10s of Burst skills after you use after you use an elite skill. (10s Buff similar to the Tactical Reload one for loading bullets faster.)

AND/OR

Separately: Just give us back the Daring Dragon slash-reset and put that functionality on Immortal Dragon but reduce the healing, like everyone and their cat seems to want. And put something NEW in the [Heightened Focus] slot.

 

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

The mental gymnastics going on are a nice read, thank you for the humor.

People will get back to back UD slashes off. There will be easy ways and hard ways to do it, but people will do it, and Woodstock will be posting about it on November 29th.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Lan Deathrider.5910

[SevenFives.2734]

Right... how tho. You haven't listed any of these "easy" or "hard ways" and the guy above just proved your 1 idea doesn't work.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

11 minutes ago, SevenFives.2734 said:

Right... how tho. You haven't listed any of these "easy" or "hard ways" and the guy above just proved your 1 idea doesn't work.

Take your pick of traits or utilities. Flow is feast or famine, and even in pve where dragon spike mine is used to reset it back to back slashes are possible and does not require having 100 flow upon entering DT to get a full slash off.

[SevenFives.2734]

Dang. So your argument again avoids the question. And doesn't explain how to actually generate 100 flow in sub 8 seconds. Nice. As OP said UD only ever does any damage when fully charged. So it's only a threat when that happens. (As shown by your own example of Dragonspike Mine - Which currently exists, and no one is raging about in PvP.)

If you're predicating your argument on repeated-smaller UD slashes then I've got news for you [Daring Dragon] used to reset your DT WAY more and Literally No One gave a kitten about that in ranked. Getting micro-stunned by slashes randomly that do 1/4s -1/2 s stun minimum 2s apart isn't going to change anything.

---

And that wasn't even OP's point anyway. Their point was that it needs a better trigger or more consistent cleaving effect on the sub 50% enemies, not what it does. Falls also mentions this.

 It's not humorous. You're just wrong.

You haven't listed any of these "easy" or "hard ways" and the guy above just proved your 1 idea doesn't work. So unless you're gonna provide any better examples maybe think before you touch a keyboard again. Stop trying to use straw-man arguments and hypotheticals to tear down people providing good, actually reasoned-out feedback and use some of that effort to use your own brain and give the devs some feedback of your own. Uniformed comments like this are why the devs think all Warrior players are idiots and you do nothing but push Warrior further from fun' mechanics into stupid, ancillary numbers changes that mean nothing gameplay wise.

Edited October 29, 2023 by SevenFives.2734

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

18 minutes ago, SevenFives.2734 said:

Dang. So your argument again avoids the question. And doesn't explain how to actually generate 100 flow in sub 8 seconds. Nice. As OP said UD only ever does any damage when fully charged. So it's only a threat when that happens. (As shown by your own example of Dragonspike Mine - Which currently exists, and no one is raging about in PvP.)

I did not avoid. Take your pick of traits and utilities. Even now with DSM it is possible to do it back to back, but no one is going to blow their stunbreak for that in PvP. The new heighted focus will open that up though. 

18 minutes ago, SevenFives.2734 said:

If you're predicating your argument on repeated-smaller UD slashes then I've got news for you [Daring Dragon] used to reset your DT WAY more and Literally No One gave a kitten about that in ranked. Getting micro-stunned by slashes randomly that do 1/4s -1/2 s stun minimum 2s apart isn't going to change anything.

Cause DD did not stun and do damage.

18 minutes ago, SevenFives.2734 said:

---

And that wasn't even OP's point anyway. Their point was that it needs a better trigger or more consistent cleaving effect on the sub 50% enemies, not what it does. Falls also mentions this.

The issue isn't full 100% slashes, it is repeated slashes doing damage and stunning the target while being unblockable and unblindable. That is an unfun mechanic for the people fighting the BSW. That will happen, and the 💩 show that is the PvP forums will complain about it, and get other things nerfed on warrior, though hopefully contained to just Bladesworn when it happens.

18 minutes ago, SevenFives.2734 said:

 It's not humorous. You're just wrong.

DT drains 5 flow per interval, at 1/4s intervals for 2.5s and 50 flow required to hit a maximum dragon slash. It isn't that I need 100 flow in 8s, that is a moot point, I just need that flow to execute back to back slashes, and flow stabilizer and any of the minor traits that I am forced to take make generating that simple. The 8s is just a red herring that I ignored as one should.

18 minutes ago, SevenFives.2734 said:

You haven't listed any of these "easy" or "hard ways" and the guy above just proved your 1 idea doesn't work.  So unless you're gonna provide any better examples maybe think before you touch a keyboard again. Stop trying to use straw-man arguments and hypotheticals to tear down people providing good, actually reasoned-out feedback and use some of that effort to use your own brain and give the devs some feedback of your own. Uniformed comments like this are why the devs think all Warrior players are idiots and you do nothing but push Warrior further from fun' mechanics into stupid, ancillary numbers changes that mean nothing gameplay wise.

As to the rest of your comments, you must be new here or haven't paid much attention so I'll be kind and forgive you. And if that isn't enough for you then you are welcome to look through my 12k post history, though I warn you some of that is friendly banter and commentary. I suggest you look through the old Omnibus thread as well.

 

[Lighter.5631]

yea, all 50% hp things are bad, they got rid of a lot of them

%hp auto proc are meme

HF now is just a better meme

i know i'll be able to triple gunflame on my meme rifle zerker, but it's still meme bad

 

should have been gain quickness when weapon swap, reset burst skill against 50% hp enemy.

so it's reasonably less meme-y

even with quickness on weaponswap i doubt it will be better than the other 2 GM tbh

Edited October 30, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

12 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

yea, all 50% hp things are bad, they got rid of a lot of them

%hp auto proc are meme

HF now is just a better meme

i know i'll be able to triple gunflame on my meme rifle zerker, but it's still meme bad

 

should have been gain quickness when weapon swap, reset burst skill against 50% hp enemy.

so it's reasonably less meme-y

even with quickness on weaponswap i doubt it will be better than the other 2 GM tbh

Triple Gunflames will be a lovely meme, but it will be a meme nonetheless.

[Ovark.2514]

It appears that the burst skill recharge of Heightened Focus will (most of the time) only be useful on Bladesworn. This is because Heightened Focus competes in the GM slot with Bust Mastery soooooooo if you use a burst skill (expending all adenaline) then proc HF, you are able to use a burst skill again . . . except you have 0 adrenaline. If you then swap weapons to get more adrenaline the burst skill on the new weapon would have ALREADY been recharged without the HF proc thanks to how low the CD is.

 

TLDR: Heightened focus is not skillful or interesting and should be reworked into something completely different.

[Aaron.1294]

Dragon trigger is not a burst skill, dragon slash - force/boost/reach are.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

9 hours ago, Ovark.2514 said:

It appears that the burst skill recharge of Heightened Focus will (most of the time) only be useful on Bladesworn. This is because Heightened Focus competes in the GM slot with Bust Mastery soooooooo if you use a burst skill (expending all adenaline) then proc HF, you are able to use a burst skill again . . . except you have 0 adrenaline. If you then swap weapons to get more adrenaline the burst skill on the new weapon would have ALREADY been recharged without the HF proc thanks to how low the CD is.

 

TLDR: Heightened focus is not skillful or interesting and should be reworked into something completely different.

You would use it with Merciless Hammer or the soon to be buffed Opportunist. Heck, Furious with Flury or Flaming Flurry would work, ditto for either longbow burst with Furious. Any multi target burst with Furious will give up to 5 adrenaline, swap weapons to the same weapon type in the 2nd set and use the burst again. 

You can rig it in such a way as to get 3 Gunflames off, it'll be a meme but people will do it.

[Ovark.2514]

8 hours ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said:

You would use it with Merciless Hammer or the soon to be buffed Opportunist. Heck, Furious with Flury or Flaming Flurry would work, ditto for either longbow burst with Furious. Any multi target burst with Furious will give up to 5 adrenaline, swap weapons to the same weapon type in the 2nd set and use the burst again. 

You can rig it in such a way as to get 3 Gunflames off, it'll be a meme but people will do it.

Good points. I still don't like it though. Anything that has an ICD is bad design and one that triggers on hitting foes under a certain % HP to trigger is even worse design.

[Yerlock.4678]

On 10/27/2023 at 11:55 PM, UpsHigh.5724 said:

I'm gonna throw this in the megathread for old [Daring Dragon] as well just incase, by some miracle of God, someone on the balance team actually reads that feedback but

New [Heightened Focus] which reads: " Heightened Focus: This trait will now also recharge all burst skills when it activates. Reduced the cooldown from 15 seconds to 12 seconds. " if we assume it activates as-is on any hit on a sub-50% foe and still has a 12s icd with no visual indicator on either you or the opponent's side that this is up: This is going to be an absolute kitten-awful nightmare for everyone involved.

ANet look. I'm guessing that you're trying to take the "reset burst skill on-X" that people liked from old Daring Dragon and give it to other Warrior stuff. But c'mon. The problem with Heightened Focus right now, isn't really that it gives quickness. (Because Quickness is GOOD.) It's that the trait basically auto-procs when you don't want it to. With NewHF as it's worded or was explained this does nothing to solve the problem.

People Enjoyed Daring Dragon Because: IT WAS FUN. It forced you to get the "damage" in your power budget from your gear or other traits while giving you a unique controllable playstyle. It ruled. This is not that. This is just more of the same problem.

 

Suggestions: If you keep it on Discipline, please for the love of God, don't make it on-hit or on burst-hit. This is far to uncontrollable. PLEASE Either: Put it on-weapon Swap but make the 2nd hit hamstring your damage on that hit OR move it to Dual Wielding on Arms and have it reset your burst skill like 10 times in a row on elite use. (Or a reasonable amount.)

This otherwise makes 0 sense and solves nothing.

They really needed to just fix Daring Dragon so that it auto attacked after the initial charge up, instead of going directly back into the charge up mode. It would've been super thematic also, just charging your burst and then bursting immediately after 2/3 more times like an anime action DBZ type of thing. You would get great mobility out of it at the expense of having no might or unlockable attack, and could act more as a roaming type of BSW. This change they're doing isn't going to repair that loss.

[Wolf.3490]

I always felt that this trait needed a rework,but i still do not see it being slotted in with axe mastery and burst mastery competing with it,not on a power berserker anyway.I always liked the concept of burst recycling after a hit but with how axe burst functions on zerker this trait will only be used to maybe get a sneaky arc divider off but usually that will net in damage loss when your not back to back hitting axe bursts on a single target,it also only activates on 50 percent hp so for half a boss fight its a dead trait then the other half its giving you a burst recycle every 8 seconds and some quickness. I have not played enough of the other warrior elite specs to see how this will function on them but this rework seems very geared towards core warrior mostly,it will be a fun trait though when we reset arc dividers back to back to just clean trash mobs.

[Grand Marshal.4098]

Should have been an entirely sustain/survival type of trait