Why does Bladesworn still have 2 Tradeoffs when they've eliminated them from all of the other Specializations...?

[TyrantPuppy.1893]

Like I understand that the way it's currently made it "needs" Gunsaber to work. Fine. But shouldn't we at least get our normal burst-skills back at some point? Maybe they could even use ~30 flow per "burst level" used or something.

CmC said they were eliminating Tradeoffs... What gives? Is there another class that I've just plain forgotten that still has something like this? The only other ones I can think of are Deadeye Steal and Core Rev F2 vs Regengade F-Abilities vs Energy Meld. (Which, again, these classes need to function so see Gunsaber Concession #1 above ^.)

[Fueki.4753]

I'd prefer to see Junksworn getting weapon swap, instead of it getting core bursts.

And no, I don't count the not-a-sabre kit as a weapon swap.

Edited November 15, 2023 by Fueki.4753

[Smoosh.2718]

I would say 3 trade offs.
1: Loss of access to the second weapon
2: Loss of access to burst skills
3: Provided with half a weapon kit which provided no change to the playstyle of warrior. (missing its mainhand counterpart)

[Khlori.6209]

Another trade off is irl hearing loss after a while of playing this post rework explosion spam

[SkyRight.2370]

@Smoosh.2718

Pretty much. It also losses the ability to use 4 on-swap sigils via Discipline's [Fast Hands], which was like the last thing Warrior had going for it, as Revenant can.

And I thought it was just me but thank you for confirming that Gunsaber IS in fact the loudest thing in existence.

---

Honestly, with how Jank/Bugged half the kit is and how the skills from the other half "just fail" half the time. I'd be down for a complete rework/overhaul of the spec at this point.

With how much Development money + time the Devs are clearly spending on Systems for things like Elementalist Pistols, Ranger Maces, etc. They clearly have the capacity to do this. They just are not because no one cares about / has any passion for Warrior over there. And instead of just biting the literal bullet and offloading the work to a Dev that cares about Warrior like Taylor cares about Ranger, they go "Buhhh number go up will fix problem." and layer more redundant Steroids / Traits on to the kit.

Heaven forbid they shuffle the Tactics traits to make this class anything approaching functional' as a support in PvE or, miracle of miracles, actually completely revise ALL of it's broken, outdated, bugged and jus plain BAD weapon skills and systems. Bladesworn being at the top of this list.

 

I'm not opposed to Cal or Taylor or whoever infusing passion into work on classes they care about. The Ele and Ranger and Rev for that matter updates look SICK. I just wish they cared about all of their children equally.

[Lighter.5631]

yea, dragon trigger should be burst skill to gunsaber only

and other weapon maintains it's original burst skill, so those weapons can actually be at least usable, 90% of mainhands, and two-handers are completely useless, only axe and offhanders are useable.

also make fast hand baseline, since now without a shared dragon trigger, you can't bypass weapon swap CD via dragon trigger, which would make it essential for basically all war specs

[Dirame.8521]

19 minutes ago, Lighter.5631 said:

yea, dragon trigger should be burst skill to gunsaber only

and other weapon maintains it's original burst skill, so those weapons can actually be at least usable, 90% of mainhands, and two-handers are completely useless, only axe and offhanders are useable.

also make fast hand baseline, since now without a shared dragon trigger, you can't bypass weapon swap CD via dragon trigger, which would make it essential for basically all war specs

Rifle BsW is actually pretty good and so is hammer. The only thing hammer lacks is DPS for 1v1s but in a team fight, it's actually quite the pain. Rifle BsW can take on literally any class and can win if you know what you're doing. Haven't tried GS because I was never good at GS. Dagger, I've heard from a theorycrafter, it is actually really nice because when paired with Shield its one daze or stun after the other. Never tried mace on either hand. I tried torch and its actually a good laugh to be a burning BsW.

 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

I still stand by putting all of the Dragon Trigger skills onto the F keys and have each of the Dragon Slashes charge with a flipover to release them. The Armaments should become new weapon kits, Combat Stimulant being healing and offensive boons, and the others flavored appropriately.

[Lighter.5631]

2 hours ago, Dirame.8521 said:

Rifle BsW is actually pretty good and so is hammer. The only thing hammer lacks is DPS for 1v1s but in a team fight, it's actually quite the pain. Rifle BsW can take on literally any class and can win if you know what you're doing. Haven't tried GS because I was never good at GS. Dagger, I've heard from a theorycrafter, it is actually really nice because when paired with Shield its one daze or stun after the other. Never tried mace on either hand. I tried torch and its actually a good laugh to be a burning BsW.

 

hah, why would you go rifle BsW when you already have projectile damage from gunsaber, and get destroyed when there's any amount of projectile hate. gunsaber outshines rifle in anyway without counting burst skill. and you will have little cleave damage

hammer is just garbage, the whole point of the hammer is to set up damage, but you can already set up without the need of having hammer for earth shaker(dragon trigger), why would you take it over any big damage weapon, and it gives literally 0 defense.

there's a reason why nobody ever use these weapons on BsW, unless it's some bronze tier pvp game.

"can take on literally any class" is such a big statement, i wonder why it's not meta LOL

Edited November 16, 2023 by Lighter.5631

[Rico.5710]

12 hours ago, TyrantPuppy.1893 said:

What gives? Is there another class that I've just plain forgotten that still has something like this? The only other ones I can think of are Deadeye Steal and Core Rev F2 vs Regengade F-Abilities vs Energy Meld.

Specter still has 3 less initiative, mech has no tool kit and harbinger gets its health reduced thanks to blight. Don't know why some trade offs got removed and others didn't 😞

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

5 hours ago, ric.3875 said:

Specter still has 3 less initiative, mech has no tool kit and harbinger gets its health reduced thanks to blight. Don't know why some trade offs got removed and others didn't 😞

Anything that changes the profession mechanic is fair game with especs, its the other things they touched that need to be removed. For BSW that is the loss of weapon swap, which is what CMC stated as the tradeoff during the reveal. Not every espec had something like that taken away though, many stayed contained to the profession mechanic, which the three you mentioned are examples of.

[KryTiKaL.3125]

Honestly they should find a way to treat the Gunsaber as a weapon itself due to the functionality and focus it has for Baldesworn. Let us stow it, let it be affected by its own Sigils. That would help a lot with how it feels to use, particularly the stowing. I hate not being able to cancel out of animations on it because I can't stow the kitten thing. Give the same treatment to other kits in the game with stowing, I don't care, just let us stow it.

[Dadnir.5038]

On 11/15/2023 at 8:45 PM, TyrantPuppy.1893 said:

CmC said they were eliminating Tradeoffs...

Did he? Even if he did, the devs didn't prove to be thorough in the various things they said they would do over the years.

In case of bladesworn I do think it's simply because he got a fairly different mechanism than the other specializations of the warrior. You should look at bladesworn like a necromancer look at scourge instead of looking at it like a necromancer would look at a reaper or harbinger. Or look at him like an engineer look at the mechanist. Look at him like a mesmer look at the virtuoso... etc.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Did he? Even if he did, the devs didn't prove to be thorough in the various things they said they would do over the years.

In case of bladesworn I do think it's simply because he got a fairly different mechanism than the other specializations of the warrior. You should look at bladesworn like a necromancer look at scourge instead of looking at it like a necromancer would look at a reaper or harbinger. Or look at him like an engineer look at the mechanist. Look at him like a mesmer look at the virtuoso... etc.

He did.

[Dirame.8521]

22 hours ago, Lighter.5631 said:

hah, why would you go rifle BsW when you already have projectile damage from gunsaber, and get destroyed when there's any amount of projectile hate. gunsaber outshines rifle in anyway without counting burst skill. and you will have little cleave damage

hammer is just garbage, the whole point of the hammer is to set up damage, but you can already set up without the need of having hammer for earth shaker(dragon trigger), why would you take it over any big damage weapon, and it gives literally 0 defense.

there's a reason why nobody ever use these weapons on BsW, unless it's some bronze tier pvp game.

"can take on literally any class" is such a big statement, i wonder why it's not meta LOL

Considering I played both Hammer and Rifle quite extensively and was giving both Signet Mesmers and pre-nerf and post-nerf SoBe Rangers a hard time with both weapons, and I was climbing so fast I got into Platinum like instantly, I would say the only reason why people don't play it is because of the general thinking of people.

I've been part of this community for years. They really never try anything new or think anything is meta until a big name pvp player uses it in a pvp match and wins with it.

I remember when Support Chrono was ruling PvP. The one counter to them was Corrupt Necro. Particular Core Necro. But did anyone play it? Not really. Most people thought Core Necro was weak. I used it to get to Legend in that same meta. People don't play what's strong. They play what's popular.

Edited November 17, 2023 by Dirame.8521