Expanded Weapon Proficiencies Beta Feedback: Engineer

[Daje.4689]

My feedback here is unfortunately simple - I don't understand where to use this weapon. Low DPS and poor boon coverage. Zero mobility or defense. Not very dynamic gameplay. I'm not aware with engineer synergy with weakness, slowness, blindness, or cripple (beyond usual). No explosions. Engineer has many ways to generate might already so I wasn't looking for it.

Random thoughts on how to keep the core idea (chain reactions) but make the build viable or fun and eye opening:

• 1 skill creates a bubble shield. Creating a chain of bubbles would be a brand new concept for the game. (Guardian)
• 1 skill shadow steps: Chain shadow stepping would be strange, but fun to experiment with. Best to do only 1 shadowstep per chain burst, requiring the chain to be separated to get multiple steps. Blast on each shadowstep would create more combos but would require careful spread of the chain to get the most out of the blast while maintaining good positioning. (Thief)
• 1 skill grants brief 1 second distortion. Similar to point 1 this would be a small but brand new gameplay change. 1 second timed aoe dodge could make for some amazing plays. (mesmer)
• 1 skill chain turns others into traps (ranger).

Unrelated: These BETA tests should give characters legendary gear. It would make it easier to test builds and allow players who have never engaged in legendary gear to see what they are missing.

[Jopettaja.7451]

I would like short bow to have a condition dps option in addition of the support option, but in a way that they mostly close each other out so you have to chose what you want and here is how I would do it

Auto Attack: Keep the base auto attack damage low but make it explosive so it benefits from the explosives traitline and make the auto attacks always crit, so it will benefit from the firearms traitline. Now the auto attacks will do burning and bleeding from critting and exploding, but only if you take the damage traitlines. The base damage is very low so the crits wont matter much in heal gear and power builds already have 100% crit so it wont make any change on it especially as the other skills have low power damage too

Essence of animated sand (skill2): Cooldown to 8 seconds, Remove cripple, Add weakness, make the skill poison combo field in addition of being a blast finisher (blast finisher in poison field makes area weakness)

Essence of living shadows (skill3): Cooldown to 8 seconds, Remove weakness (moved to skills 2)

Essence of liquid wrath (skill4): Cooldown to 8 seconds, Remove vulnerability, Remove might, Add burning and make the skill explosive, add both burning and explosive in the chain reaction (explosions with explosive traitline have chance to cripple enemies as cripple was removed from skill 2, explosives also cause vulnerability as it was removed from the base skill)

Essence of borrowed time: Keep the skill as it is

 

General changes and thoughts:

-Make all of the areas bigger (maybe 240).

-Lower cooldows and make them same with each other (apart from skill 5) so you can make more chain reactions

-Skill 5 can be left as big CC

-Make fuse time 1/4 seconds on skills 2, 3 and 4

-I don't think the might in skill 4 is very needed anymore as might is very easy to keep up on both scrapper and mechanist supports after last patch, that is why I would change the skill 4 into a DPS skill, if you play support role you can still use the skill 4 as a filler chain reaction skill to boost up your other skills, so it still wont be wasted skill. If you play dps your aim would be to explode all of the areas with skill 4 to make a big burning field. To Avoid having too high heal and damage at the same time, make the base damage, heal and barrier lower on the skills but reward a lot more for the chain reactions, for example the base barrier on skill 2 would be low, but if you chain 2 or 3 skill with it the barrier will be very high, but if you do this all your skills will be on cooldown and you can't use them for damage, so you cant do both at the same time efficiently, you have to chose. With skill 4 burning it would be the same thing, base damage is lowish, but if you chain it the burning stacks high, but then you cant use your skills to heal or provide barrier. This way you would have to end up having to chose what you use the skills for as bow rewards you highly for doing the chain reactions, the base is quite low, but chain reaction is really high and gear would affect it a lot too obviously

-I would lean quite heavily having your weapon to be affected by your traits and gear opening interesting ways to make your builds and making the chain reactions strong as it is the whole new thing on the weapon, using explosives and fire arms with viper gear would make the bow into a condition weapon, but taking the heal traitlines, alchemy and inventions would lose you almost all of the damage but add big barrier and heal

[Ale.3280]

After a lot of hours in all game modes (PVE, PVP, WvW) this is my updated feedback (by a main decade Engi 😉 )

BAD:

• The thing that i have to click the same button twice to have some effect is annoying, we have it in all all buttons---2-3-4-5...It could be better if the "wells" are like the necro-staff or the guardian-traps, where they does the effect/damage when the enemy goes on it, or they can stay in the world 20 seconds if no1 go throuh them;
• the condis are wrong for me... try torment..bleeding..burning...no1 of them on the shortbow, we should do some condi dps;
• some boons are wrong for me... try protection, resistance, quickness;
• no explosions on any arrow;
• low dps in general (all arrows, in particular in the Arc Detonator damage on nearby enemys);
• 180 too small radius;
• The support abilitys (barrier, healing, etc...) are not on the Engi., he needs to stay on the circle, you could add them staying ranged only for the engi;
• too long the animation to shot the arrow (2-3-4-5)... the targets will move in that time, in all game mode;
• No mobility with any arrow, try the "Essence of Living Shadow" that expode on impact and in the same time the Engi can do a jump back (like the ranger on shotbow i mean);
• 2-3-4-5 skill all on ground targeting, try remove 1/2 of them with explosions or with some bouncing effect like the pistol 3.

GOOD:

• autoattack with more target with the elettric module... but vulnerability is a wrong condi, try burning or torment.

Let's talk again after IMPORTANT changes on this weapon; there is the potential, but as now it will be not used.

Hev a nice day!

PS: Idea for this weapon or for a future update: you can add a trait or similar, where the engi can swap weapons, BUT he can't use kits if he has that trait on.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Ale.3280

[Artemis.8034]

You know of all the things they could do for engi and ele new weapons wasnt it, if they really wanted to give engi and ele players something to be joyful about weapon swapping could have been it! the time has come to allow weapon swapping on them in combat like every other proff gets in this game! Revs has a similar concept to ele with the legends and they can swap weapons. I wouldnt even care to get new weapons if we could weapon swap!

Oh yeah shortbow is awful, clumsy slow not even good for teams. and whats with all these 180 radius benefits? i noticed a lot of the new beta weapons are 180. is this a forewarning of things to come? Like the melee dog pile isnt tight enough you want us to stand on each other to get any benefit? Seriously this game is far too melee oriented and getting worse all the time.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Artemis.8034

[Celeste.9135]

From my toying with the shortbow if it is to stay with this design frame and not recieve any mechanical changes at the very least, the range of the AOEs needs to increase dramatically, more or all skills need to be finishers and fields, perhaps there should be an effect on dropping each arrow and in general the bow needs to provide more, particularly more valuable boons for a support, otherwise I do not see myself swapping to it ever outside of maybe while flak kiting Sabetha and then returning to mace/shield for every other raid encounter. 

If we wanted to open up the weapon to hybridise or be played in other roles I'd love to see some kind of mechanic where depending on which detonation is used on the cannisters of essence the weapon could fit other roles. For example with each explosion, one could give extra healing and/or barrier, another could provide multiple boons with each detonation, another could result in power explosions and of course another could cause conditions per explosion. 

I hope something is done at the very least because by a very very large margin this is the worst weapon added with this proficiency update.

[Wielder Of Magic.3950]

Feedback for Engineer Shortbow

I have been really struggling to find a good role for this. 
It's not a power DPS weapon nor a condi DPS weapon. 
So it is obviously meant as a control and support weapon.
But I  see nothing within the shortbow kit that would make a support engineer take it over Mace/Shield. 
Even if you detonate everything for a specific bonus, it's in my opinion not impactful enough.
The maximum barrier when all stars align can be easily achieved with the kit engineer already has, especially on Mech.
On Scrapper I see no reason why you'd bring this over either hammer (when we care about finishers) or again Mace/shield (when we care about raw heals or defensive boons/reflects/cc).
 Nobody cares about the healing, if we want to we can vomit healing.
Fun that another full detonation can push 25 might, but again we were already doing that in our support roles anyway. 
The stun and bonus slow...what is the point? Nobody really cares for slow and our other support weapons already bring good CC as it is.
What is shortbow doing? What does it do better? What hole in the design of engineer can it patch? 
I simply am unable to find the answer to that.
And if there is no answer it means the shortbow is dead on arrival. 
 

That is all on top of the fact that it does not feel fun to play. Throw down stuff, detonate...and wait.
It feels like Necromancer staff, a strongly criticised design from 2012.
 

I understand that you probably cannot redesign the entire shortbow at this point.
But I do hope for stronger effects, less cooldowns and more rewards for specific detonations or different effects for setting off different detonation chains.
 

Shortbow is not 'it'.

[VocalThought.9835]

Short bow would be cooler if the used the 5th skill to shuffle the skills 2-4, allowing the 4 skill to have all the current 2-5 skills with 4 ammo. The new 2 &3 skills could be different skills. Maybe 2 skill could be like Cluster Buster and the 3 skill could be an entirely new type of skill.

[Bomboed.5697]

I really want Anet to answer one simple question: why shortbow exists in its current design?

I mean, this weapon has no purpose and solves no problem.
It uses ground-target AoE for all skills - we already have two similar weapons: grenades and mortar.
It is incredibly slow - just like majority of our weapons.
It provides no mobility, no self-defense and no powerful CC.
It lacks damage and will never be able to compete with other damage-oriented weapons.
As a support weapon it is simply worse then mace+shield in all cases.
And the most important thing - it is not fun to play at all. It is clunky to use, it's chain reaction gimmick is meh and has no impact, and it does not provide any new gameplay.

Why this weapon exists?

[LilBiM.3581]

If you ask me, Unblockable and Slow could be rolled into a minor trait in the Inventions line, given a duration (3-4s) and a trigger of when you use a CC and a CD. Might see more use of the Inventions Tree elsewhere or in specific circumstances. Autodefense Bomb Dispenser could go in the trash bin and Protection, Regen and Vigor could be brought to the weapon.

This would free up the weapon itself to do more meaningful and useful things in life, other than making sure we all get our 8hrs of sleep.

[Sigela.6352]

I've tried a beta engineer with this twice. I wanted to like it so I didn't think I should accept only my first test.

First test, didn't like it. It's not a graceful weapon IMO. It doesn't feel like an engineer's weapon. It feels like an anarchist lobbing Molotov cocktails. A very coarse design that doesn't deliver what a fully engineered weapon would deliver. I can live with the AA attack. The rest wasn't my cup of tea. So I walked away.

I tested it again. I got better at it but I still don't like it.

As others have said, it feels like a kit and not a weapon. The most fun I had with it was when I ran it with a kit equipped and used the kit as my primary damage and let my shortbow become the kit to drop into for a few effects and then drop back out for damage and most of my fighting elsewhere.

A significant problem was that the spaceholder icons are not helping me with managing the skills of the shortbow. Testing it with icons that convey better information may be a noticeable upgrade in enjoyment of the shortbow.

I don't see a compelling reason to replace other weapons and toolkits in my engineer play with the shortbow.

[TukTuk.4197]

The Shortbow on Engi fells really off for the Style of the game, not only mechanicly, but in the grand scheam of things.

Let me explain: Weapons skills in GW2 always have 5 diferent types of skill, usualy a chain reaction (main attack) a movement one (dash ou tele), A defensive one, a secondary stronger attack and a CC one. It's not always these configuration, but it it always diferent types, diferent ways of movement, diferent areas. The mechanic of the Shortbow, where 4 out of 5 skills are variating of the same thing fell's like a Elite spec Skill, because in the style of the build building of the game, the skill granted from Elite Spec are always, Gyros being Well's that follow the player, for exemple. So, the shortbow fells on Engi fellws much like a Elite spec bad made, because it does not add extra effects for the same variations of the same skill. Also, right now, does not combo with almost anything, it is not a Explosion to combo with the Explosion trait line, it is not a Elixer to combo with Alchemy traits, and so on.

Im my opnion, they could improve it in Two ways: The one that would wish but it's not going to happen is they made a Elite Spech and use the skills from 2-5 as the Elite Spec skills, removing the early detonation of the skill , having one of the bow skills being a detonador (could deal damage around the Eng) that activates early the areas (witch would made the Bow to be the go to weapon for this elite spec because of the early detonation), and making others skill that fit in the typical styels of the game.

The other way, more feasable, is to transform the skills from 2 to 5 in on single skill , or maybe two, and them complete the rest fo the set with typical skills for weapons, like a dash/dodge. Making it one skill, it could be the barrier variation or the heal variation as the main type, and when you uso some other type of skill it changes. Exemple: It is the barrier variation as base, when you use any Potion skill it becomes, or granted as extra, the effects of the heal variation, when you use any Gadged skill it becomes the Slow and Stun variation (or adds the effect as a bonus, besides de barrier). Or, as said, make them 2 skill, one to be the Area that explodes, and one to rotate between the type, simulating a Green arrow's Quiver of some kind. And it is not like there is not this type of mechanic in the game, just look to the Deadeye Rifle, that has the "on foot" and "kneel" stances, changing it with the 5 skill (that is use only for that)

So yeah, that is my feedback, thank you for the reading, sorry for any English mispell.

[nopoet.2960]

Dude.  This has got to be the worst weapon concept in the game. 

So here's what I would do with it.  To make it better maybe the devs just need to double down go all out.  Skills 2-5 each like 2 flip overs for like 12 skills.  I don't play engineer that much but that seems worthy of yall.

1. Each canister should be unique.  One is big and heavy and does a blast finisher.  Another has a little propeller on it that does a whirl finisher.  One is shot low to the ground so it's a projectile finisher.  You could do a little leap shot for the last one to pick up a leap finisher.  This gives you other ways to mix effects.

2.  You still trigger and chain like before.

3.  But what happens to the canisters...?  They become little clockwork attack bots with attack styles that match there design.  They start with some kind of overcharge attack effect then go into standard default attack mode.  (Bonus if the devs can figure out how the make the little guys form up like a mini Voltron)

4.  Finally, you can trigger an explosion but they don't just explode.  They leave dangerous sharp shrapnel everywhere for enemies to hurt themselves on. 

Anyway, hope the devs can make it right for engineer mains cause this is just wrong.

 

[Goosekilla.2796]

On 11/29/2023 at 5:58 PM, Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

recommend for skills 2-5 having the first button press 2-5 activating ground

You realize that this is a setting you can choose in your game options, right? All ground target skills can be set to fire with one button block mouse

[Matt H.6142]

Clearly this weapon can only work on engi who has access to kits, so they might have 2 other weapons to use while waiting for short bow to come off cooldown.  This weapon otherwise goes completely against GW2's design philosophy in recent years of trimming the fat, and if the final implementation isn't just 240 radius wells from a bow, I'd be surprised.  Two skills for a sizeable, desirable effect is not great, and only skill 5 has any real detrimental effect on foes.  It's ranged support "Preparations" giving the overly available Might boon, and heal or barrier if you plan in advance for those moments.  Possibly satisfying if everything goes according to plan, more likely than not, a lot of misses.  (Getting off the 4 arrows on some HOT trash mobs was the extent I experienced that.)

Edit - Learning that chain reaction triggers when a new arrow is placed on an already pulsing arrow did help create some flow for this weapon and made it feel a bit more reactionary; like you could roll through the weapon set somewhat continuously.  Kits still feel necessary (but not mad at it.)  

Edited December 3, 2023 by Matt H.6142

[Tiviana.2650]

totally disgusted with it, this has to be the most awkward use of a weapon in the history of weapons. also axe thief beta char in Temple of febe strike doing 35k yeah thats fair , but we get ....shortbow 😒

[NoggDog.5486]

First, if this method of detonating every one of them and having bonuses based on all the detonates makes it to Live, it needs far more than what it has.

First large problem, detonating the 2. First, why does detonating the one with the blast finisher not blast any of the fields? On top of that, it gives a terrible amount of barrier baseline and only in one bulk sum. I suggest making it pulse barrier instead, with the amount of barrier determined by how many essence arrows you have on the ground.

Detonating the 3 is currently fine as a bulk heal.

Second major issue that NEEDS to be addressed, detonating 4. While yes, it is INSANELY fast 25 might... Why is it just might? Why is the only boon this weapon provides Might when we have magic from multiple sources? IMO to fix it, instead of just focusing Might generation with the 4, add UNIQUE boons on each canister's detonations when you use 4's detonate. I.E. make the 2 give Vigor when the 4 is detonated, 3 Regen, and since the 5 has a higher cooldown, give it something unique to Shortbow. Since 5 is a lot of slow, why not give it Resistance?

The 5's detonate is okay, though IMO it needs more than just the non-damaging condis, but I don't know what to add.

Ideally, this just gets completely overhauled, but if you really want to keep this format of it, make it do more. As of right now the only thing it has going for it is 25 might in the blink of an eye, and it's a pain to set up anywhere that is not PvE.

[foxtrot.6902]

Team: make it a hybrid condition/power weapon like rev short bow.

[LilBiM.3581]

To sum up my experience: OUT OF RANGE, OBSTRUCTED, 1 maybe two impacts if you're lucky
This weapon really isn't powerful enough to justify 900 range and the inability to stand behind any object, including blades of grass, and watch all of your traps that you meticulously set up spam obstructed messages. Also people spend all of 0.5s standing in them. Essentially this is like playing bomb kit with LoS issues and the guy is 700 range away so nothing you do matters. I know what you're thinking, but support your allies. Look, herding cats is equally as good of a strategy as herding Charr. You would need to predict movements or spray these things on downed targets while your gang is beating the crap out of some poor soul whose legs have been on Charlie Murphy's couch for too long.

It requires your enemy and your allies to cooperate and stay in one place for too long to make an impact. Also the impact isn't noteworthy, it's like a medkit without regen, vigor and reliability. Everybody else makes the plays, you just swoop in and pretend you're helping.

[AshenOwl.2485]

Engineer Shortbow. This is one I have some mixed feelings on; on the one hand, I think the unique weapon mechanic is pretty interesting, on the other, the nature of the mechanic makes the skills all feel very repetitive. And the animations here feel clunky and need some work. The skills require so much time to place, and then additional time to arm, and then manually trigger them. The flow of the weapon in comparison to the flow of most combat is really holding it back now. Especially when you compare it to something like Necro Staff.

I think one possible solution to this would be to turn the damage and slow arrows into targeted skills, while keeping the heal and barrier arrows as ground targeted. They would otherwise function normally, but when you activate the payload arrow it creates the AoE centered on the target of the first attack (as if the arrow with the payload was stuck in them). If the enemy dies before the payload is activated, the arrow "drops" and creates a aoe zone at the area the creature died. I feel like this would help guarantee some of the damage from the damage payloads (which can often be completely avoided by even NPC mobs if placed incorrectly), and also increase the decision making involved in the use of this weapon. And since so much of the "class fantasy" involved in this weapon seems like it revolves around making "trapped" areas you lure enemies into, this would also benefit that.

So, Engi Shortbow bulletpoints:

-Speed up cast times and animations
-Diversify the type of weapon skills on this weapon

[Dschromm.2946]

well, this one is tough... i love the idea behind the shortbow, but it somehow feels clunkz and not as impactful as i hoped it to be.

autoattack:

PROs: nice attack speed and the vulnerabilty helps to feel like a offensive support - enabling your allies to dish out more damage.
CONs: the detonation doesn't apply weakness as stated in the tool tip, puts on vuln instead. the damage feels incredibly low when you are out in open PvE. the damage may be okay in PvP, WvW or instanced content (no clue about PvP or WvW whatsoever), but if you just want to be the nice guy during world events, it feels pretty bad... i mean, it deonates and shocks enemies...

skills 2-5:

PROs: i like the animation of the toggled skills and the potential behind chain reactions.
CONs: ground-targeting makes it feel clunky and very frustrating against moving targets (i assume it's even worse in PvP and Wvw). the inital attacks have no damage and no effect, feeling like wasted actions. the containers all look the same except for colour. 

i have problems to figure out the shortbows identity: is it offensive or defensive support?
-> barrier (skill 2), healing (skill 3), blind, weakness and potential area blindness (skill 3) as well as slow and potential chaos auras (skill 5) imply defense
-> autoattacks, might, vuln and potential area might from skill 4 imply offense
-> skill 5 is useful for defense and offense

can it compete with mace/shield as defensive support?
-> since shortbow isn't range support and somehow forces you to go into mid-range or melee, mace/shield seems to be better... by a lot. other users have stated why above.


potential fix ideas:

- give it an identity - preferably offensive support/direct damage hybrid (personal preference)

- get rid of ground-targeting on skills 2-4

- make the inital hit impactful was well - give it damage and/or an effect/non-damaging condition

offensive support idea:
autoattack: more power damage, maybe make it an "explosion" as well. 20% projectile finisher.

arrows of skills 2-4 now stick to the prime target:

essence of animated sand (skill 2): initial attack (IA): fire an arrow equipped with a payload dealing damage and crippling the prime target.
                                                              toggle (T): detonate container, deal damage again against your prime target and surrounding enemies. on detonation,
                                                                                  cripple the prime target and surrounding enemies (up to a total of 5) , cripple again with every pulse (5 pulses), grants (low) barrier to
                                                                                  allies; explosion finisher
                                                              chain reaction (CR): if you use this skill's toggle effect to initiate a chain reaction, every other container from skills 3 and 4 detonates as
                                                                                                     well, dealing damage again (less damage than the initial toggle effect of course), grants additional barrier  and inflicts a condition
                                                                                                     or a boon
                                                                                                    (as chosen by developers)
                                                                                                     skill 3 container: applies poison on affected targets (condi version, CV) or grants allies around the
                                                                                                     prime target resistance (boon version)
                                                                                                     skill 4 container: applies additional vuln on affected enemies (CV) or grants allies around the prime target fury (BV)
                                                                                                     skill 5 container: if skill 2's toggle manages to chain react with skill 5's ground-targeted container, you immobilze your prime
                                                                                                     target and surrounding enemies (CV) or elongating the effects of alacrity and quickness on your allies by x seconds (BV)

essence of living shadows (skill 3): initial attack (IA): fire an arrow equipped with a payload dealing damage and blinding the prime target.
                                                              toggle (T): detonate container, deal damage again against your prime target and surrounding enemies. on initial detonation,
                                                                                  blind and weaken the prime target and surrounding enemies (up to a total of 5). the prime target becomes a moving dark field for you 
                                                                                  and your allies to combo with. The field pulses (low) damage and additional weakness to enemies within the field for 5s.
                                                              chain reaction (CR): if you use this skill's toggle effect to initiate a chain reaction, every other container from skills 2 and 4 detonates as
                                                                                                     well, strenghtening the dark field (ramping up the pulsing damage) and inflicts a condition or a boon
                                                                                                    (as chosen by developers)
                                                                                                     skill 2 container: detonates (explosion finisher!) and applies short time-fear around on affected targets (CV) or                                                                                                                                       grants allies around the prime target swiftness and vigor (BV)
                                                                                                     skill 4 container: grants allies around the prime target short time quickness and might (BV)
                                                                                                     skill 5 container: if skill 3's toggle manages to chain react with skill 5's ground-targeted container, you chill your prime target
                                                                                                     and surrounding enemies (CV) or granting life steal to your allies for x seconds (BV)

essence of liquid wrath (skill 4): initial attack (IA): fire an arrow equipped with a payload dealing damage and inflict high-impact vulnerability (10 stacks, 5s) on the prime target.
                                                         toggle (T): detonate container, deal damage again against your prime target and surrounding enemies. on initial detonation,
                                                                              burn the prime target and surrounding enemies (up to a total of 5) and grant allies might (5 stacks). the prime target becomes a moving fire
                                                                              field for you and your allies to combo with. The field pulses additional might to allies within the field.
                                                        chain reaction (CR): if you use this skill's toggle effect to initiate a chain reaction, every other container from skills 2 and 3 detonates as
                                                                                                     well, strenghtening the fire field, granting additional might stacks and inflicts a condition or a boon
                                                                                                    (as chosen by developers)
                                                                                                     skill 2 container: detonates (explosion finisher!) and applies blind and burning to affected targets (CV) or                                                                                                                                                grants allies around the prime target quickness (BV)
                                                                                                     skill 3 container: dazes (short) affected targets applies confusiongrants allies around the prime target resolution and
                                                                                                     regeneration (BV)
                                                                                                     skill 5 container: if skill 4's toggle manages to chain react with skill 5's ground-targeted container, you slow your prime target
                                                                                                     and surrounding enemies (CV) or elongate the effects of might, fury and quickness on your allies by x seconds (BV)

essence of borrowed time (skill 5): initial attack (IA): ground-targeted, explosion finsher: fire an arrow equipped with an ethereal mine. other than your other inital attacks, this one
                                                                                                 causes no damage in the area. instead, it creates a ethereal combo-field where it lands and waits for detonation.
                                                               toggle (T): detonate container, deal massive damage against  enemies in the area. on initial detonation, inflict a random condition
                                                                                    on enemies they don't already have (never applies fear) and replenish the ethereal combo field. allies gain superspeed and stability.
                                                              chain reaction (CR): if you use this skill's toggle effect to initiate a chain reaction, every other container from skills 2, 3 and 4 detonates as
                                                                                                     well, strenghtening the ethereal field (1st additional container for CR: knock down, 2nd additional container for CR: float;
                                                                                                     3rd additional container for CR: launch).
                                                                                                     skill 2 container: detonates (explosion finisher!) and triggers the field to deal its damage again (the later it triggers in the CR the
                                                                                                     stronger it gets: 50/75/100% of ethereal field's toggle damage)
                                                                                                     skill 3 container: the pulses of the dark field grant barrier to allies (the barrier pulses are stronger the later it is triggers in the CR)
                                                                                                     skill 4 container: when it triggers, all boon effects on allies are elongated by x seconds. the duration increases the later
                                                                                                     it triggers in the CR: 1st: +1s; 2nd: +1,5s; 3rd: +2s)

well, just an idea... a thought. just had fun goofing around 😄

cheers.

Edited December 2, 2023 by Dschromm.2946

[Riot Inducer.8964]

This one definitely needs more work. The chain detonation arrows are a neat idea and have a cool visual but they are a bit too much setup for not enough payoff. Tried on a quick-heal scrapper and the best use was chaining 2 & 4 to generate a nearly full stack of might then drop more blast finishers on the field to finish it then cycle arrows 3 & 5 alongside 2 as it comes off cooldown to chain blast finishers. Outside of this use case I can't see much, maybe you can get similar use with an alac mech by pumping out barrier from skill 2.

My thoughts on improving this one:

1. Please add some damage to this across the board. I'd recommend a large amount of damage on the initial detonation of each arrow plus bumping up the pulsing damage a fair bit to boot.
2. The chain effects are cool but hit or miss on their potency. Skill 5 sharing out pulsing slow is great! Skill 3 sharing out sub-regen level heals is not!
3. This weapon needs more offensive applications, aside from the low damage only half of the chain effects have an offensive aspect. What if skill 3 & 4 shared out pulsing poison and burning respectively?

[Artemis.8034]

I still say drop the weapon and give engi a weapon swap! We dont need a shortbow, we can use a weapon swap. Because i know where this is going, and to make their pet project more appealing to use they are going to nerf our other weapons, mace shield inc nerf! Hammer inc nerf, all to push this sb thing no one likes, just keep the bow and let us weapon swap!

[Zzik.5873]

13 hours ago, Artemis.8034 said:

I still say drop the weapon and give engi a weapon swap! We dont need a shortbow, we can use a weapon swap. Because i know where this is going, and to make their pet project more appealing to use they are going to nerf our other weapons, mace shield inc nerf! Hammer inc nerf, all to push this sb thing no one likes, just keep the bow and let us weapon swap!

I fear your right it so like anet to nerf stuff that are balance for the sake of pushing us toward their new idea... But this time no, I dont want to play with another mortar kit (shortbow) on my bar... I really dont... I dont care if we have our shortbow 3 months after everyone but this need to be redesign from the ground up... This thing is not fun, unwanted, and seriouly feel super lazy compare to every other new weapons... Im myself is a game dev, and I generaly defend anet, but this is super lazy, it must not as been hard to code... I cant see how it was...

[Random Wax Orc.7695]

Scrap it all, and give Engineer dual wield Axe/Axe.  That would help make up for the pathetic weapon combinations available to Engineer.  One 2h weapon is a single gimmick weapon choice.  Two 1h weapons gives pistols 2 more options, and sword/mace/shield each one more option.  That's almost double Engineer's current weapon options, and over double Engineer's current viable options.

And stop trying to force every new Engineer build into being Support, while continually nerfing Engineer Dps.  Give Engineer more OPTIONS and more versatility.

[Coolster.2536]

I liked the concept for shortbow. I thought it was going to add really interesting totem gameplay, similar to Renegade spirits. Leaving massive area denials while bruiser'ing up yourself and allies, but it all just fell flat. You could give an 8k barrier with Animated Sand, a massive burst heal from chaining Living Shadows, or instant 25 Might with Liquid Wrath, but with how long it takes to set up, whoever you were trying to give it to would be long gone before the chain went off. Even with chaining the arrows one-by-one, the effect of the first arrow would end before the fourth arrow landed. And with how small the radii are, that "massive area denial" only ends up being like 400 radius at best, if the opponents actually feel it. The lingering effects by themselves are really weak. With how the conditions are on Shortbow, you'd need Expertise to make them stronger, but healers want Healing Power and Concentration. You know what stat set has Healing Power, Concentration, and Expertise? Celestial, and Celestial Healers are not known to do very much healing. The boon access on Shortbow is very poor for being a "support" weapon. Mace/Shield was three boons in Regeneration, Vigor, and Protection, while all Shortbow has is Might. Shortbow not having Protection makes me consider not running Inventions, since I feel Inventions is a boring traitline, but the only other option, Tools, is even worse for Support builds than Inventions, so the adept tier in Inventions just ends up as a dead tier, especially on Heal Mechanist. As a whole, I really don't see what niche shortbow is supposed to fill. It's too slow, immobile, and unimpactful to see use in sPVP or WvW and the support it provides is worse than other options to see use in PvE. On the plus side, Shortbow makes Engineer the first class to have every combo field in the game!

Below is a list of nitpicks and suggestions I had and I hope they're useful in making Shortbow better. As I said before, I like the totem playstyle, so I don't want the entire concept scrapped, but I do want it made more flexible to fit Engineer's versatility.

• Arc Detonator could interact with the rest of the Shortbows kit more, since it's all you have after setting up a big chain. Maybe like "Attacking the same target 5 times tags them with a spare canister that will chain if the target is hit with any arrow" or something.
• As a support, you're doing nothing while setting up arrows to be chained. Consider moving the detonation effect to trigger on impact and then we detonate to start a chain reaction
• Remove the fuse animation and just have the canisters blow up instantly. Most of the arrows are too weak to for the fuse time to be meaningful. Maybe keep it for Borrowed Time, since I can see people wanting a tell to dodge the stun.
• Increase the radius to at least 240. Consider allowing the chain bonuses to have a larger radius than the canisters, otherwise it'll just encourage dropping everything in the same spot, instead of spreading them out to cover a larger area.
• I'm not sure how I feel about barrier on Animated Sand and healing on Living Shadows. Barrier and Healing effectively do the same thing, so it makes these skills feel redundant to me. Most weapons pre-SotO seem to have one or the other, but not both.
• Borrowed Time is probably the best skill on the weapon, but chaining the slow is a very weak effect. I think it'd be very interesting if the skill had a pull instead of a stun. core Engineer doesn't have an AoE pull, so putting one on shortbow would solve that problem and allowing it to chain would be like having a mini-Gravity Well
• Boon access on the Shortbow is very poor. Engineer doesn't have an easy way to share Fury, Aegis, Resolution, or Resistance to allies, but if you want it to compete with Mace/Shield, it will at least need Protection.
• Honestly, it seems like you want Shortbow to replace Medkit or Elixir Gun. But Shortbow doesn't do enough to take one of those out of the equation or shore up Engineer's other weaknesses to make it an option over shield. It feels more like a utility weapon than a support one, which is bad on a class that can't weapon swap.

Visuals

I know visuals and animations are a WIP, but to add my 2 cents on Shortbow's visuals

• Animated Sand: Ground effect is distinct enough, but the chain animation just looks like a fart cloud. It'd be cool if you reused the swirling bone animation from Scourge Sand Shades and make them bigger to be more noticeable (and hopefully not too visually cluttered)
• Living Shadows: The Ground effect looks really similar to Liquid Wrath. Consider making it less indigo and more purple/black/red. The chain effect also looks a lot like Mesmer's purple magic. It'd be cool if you reused the walking shadows effect from Specter Wells for it, though Specter Wells are notoriously visually cluttered.
• Liquid Wrath: Ground effect looks similar to Living Shadows. Consider making it the same type of blue from Cleansing Flame (Guard Torch 5). The chain effect looks about right, but it could stay fire-y for a bit longer instead of turning into a cloud
• Borrowed Time: Good.
• Arc Detonator: Good. The spark-y sound is a nice touch.

On 11/29/2023 at 4:35 PM, BenaSPACE.6028 said:

After sleeping on it a bit, I think I can come up with some example skills:

~snipping the kneel design so this post wont be overly long~

I like this design and could be interesting. Though wouldn't it feel clunky since you'd have to Kneel -> drop payload -> Stand Up -> DPS to get any effects of the chain bonus?

On 11/29/2023 at 7:16 AM, Darkhart.4769 said:

Instead of mechanical genius effecting attribute stat or cooldown, why not have mechanical genius be the trait that allows boon to share with the mechs. Whenever we are close with the mech or have the mechanical genius UI active, whenever the player gain boons, it is share towards the mech like the shift signet thus removing it from the signet. And whenever the mech move away too far from the player the the boon share is turn off.

+1 to this idea. I had another idea where Mechanical Genius worked similar to Compounding Power or Deadly Blades on Virtuoso, but folding Shift Signet into Mechanical Genius is a much better idea to balance the Mech.