how about a Stunbreak on Legend Swap in Salvation tree?

[Knighthonor.4061]

Since Legend Swap is an important part of the gameplay right? and with the nerf to the support barrier from the dodge, I am forced to legend swap out of Ventari more often now.  And with how we can be CCed in the dodge,  how about having stun breaker on Legend swap be a Salvation trait? Makes it much easier to run support rotation with the weaker support abilities we have now. Maybe make this WvW exclusive were there is more CC spam and server lag to deal with. 

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

We use to have ‘stun break on legend swap’ trait in the GM minor slot of Invocation. It was deemed too strong and just straight up deleted out of the game. And this was back when we had core and herald and the class had less stability options than we currently do today. A stun break on a 10s cooldown as a minor trait was incredibly good, just wish it could have stuck around and moved off the minor slot so it could have been balanced a bit better. As well as pitted against other strong traits such as our current GMs or even the condi remove on swap. 
 

All of this to say, you probably have a 0.00000000000000001% chance of them adding it back into the game.

[Knighthonor.4061]

15 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

We use to have ‘stun break on legend swap’ trait in the GM minor slot of Invocation. It was deemed too strong and just straight up deleted out of the game. And this was back when we had core and herald and the class had less stability options than we currently do today. A stun break on a 10s cooldown as a minor trait was incredibly good, just wish it could have stuck around and moved off the minor slot so it could have been balanced a bit better. As well as pitted against other strong traits such as our current GMs or even the condi remove on swap. 
 

All of this to say, you probably have a 0.00000000000000001% chance of them adding it back into the game.

which is why I believe it would be better balanced in the Salvation tree instead of Invocation, which DPS builds use. 

[Yasai.3549]

2 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

which is why I believe it would be better balanced in the Salvation tree instead of Invocation, which DPS builds use. 

People are starting to use Salvation in PvP and WvW too. Its Condi cleanse on dodge roll is just way too valuable for Revenant, who is inherently a class extremely weak to Condi focus. 
It'll just phase out Devastation and Retribution entirely because if you want a defensive traitline, Salvation will have everything you need from Condi Cleanse, Barrier, Damage reduction and adding a Stunbreak ontop of it will just make it used more, rather than now where it's maybe used if the build can fit it. 

Do I want Stunbreak on Legendswap back? Yes I do, but I don't think it'll ever happen. What's more likely to happen is a trait giving F2 Stunbreak. It's really random that they would give Retribution a Prot on F2, so it could be something they may try. 

 

[Buran.3796]

3 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

which is why I believe it would be better balanced in the Salvation tree instead of Invocation, which DPS builds use. 

   For WvW/PvP and even solo PvE Salvation has become prety much what Defense is for Warriors: it provides so much value in terms of defensive abilities and self sustain that is almost mandatory unless you're playin in a party in which other allies provides the support. You could do ok running against pure power builds and not having Salvation, but if you face hybrids or heavy condi builds you'll miss a lot not running Salvation.

  Take also in consideration that the removal of breakstun at legen swap in Rev was made at the same time it was nerfed across all the professions in the game, in a time in which was considered that having more than 2 breakstuns at our dispossal was unhealthy. Now take in consideration that we have already power creeped close to the past: Vindi can use up to 3 breakstuns in a row, and albeit is not as easy and cheap as just swapping legend (you need to spent energy) those breakstuns provide more effects that just removing your impairment.

[Virdo.1540]

So far every traitline, especially salvation, is pretty strong. Only retribution is somewhat lacking. I could definitely see it there, maybe instead of the passive dwarf elite trait

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

2 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

So far every traitline, especially salvation, is pretty strong. Only retribution is somewhat lacking. I could definitely see it there, maybe instead of the passive dwarf elite trait

I would replace the dumb 'protection on f2' trait they just added since there's no other prot in that line and and old retribution use to have stab on evade on the minor (which was also too strong). If anything, a good compromise may be "gain Xs of Stability and Stunbreak when you use an f2 skill' or even keep it as prot, whatever. But just tack on a stunbreak and turn every f2 on core and each espec into a  stunbreak

[arazoth.7290]

30 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

I would replace the dumb 'protection on f2' trait they just added since there's no other prot in that line and and old retribution use to have stab on evade on the minor (which was also too strong). If anything, a good compromise may be "gain Xs of Stability and Stunbreak when you use an f2 skill' or even keep it as prot, whatever. But just tack on a stunbreak and turn every f2 on core and each espec into a  stunbreak

I misread the changes. I thought it was protection everytime you pressed weapon skill 2 😅😅😅

[Yasai.3549]

5 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

So far every traitline, especially salvation, is pretty strong. Only retribution is somewhat lacking. I could definitely see it there, maybe instead of the passive dwarf elite trait

Invocation's Glaring Resolve feels more at home in Retribution than Invocation imo. 
I do want some Retribution love. 

I actually tried experimenting with the new Spiritual Reckoning and Vicious Reprisal. It's really not bad, especially with Vicious' duration increase for Resolution. My only grievance regarding Retribution these days is the Master tier traits. Set in Stone is big ????? because it enforces F2 casting for some reason. Resolute Evasion is.... nice. It's not special, just nice. DBT is a sore subject for me because of how little weakness/CC Revenant realistically plays with, yet it's probably the strongest pick out of the 3 traits in Master.

I kinda hate the feeling of my trait choices being limited to "Pick this one because it's the best but it's only the best by default" 

[Shao.7236]

On 12/2/2023 at 6:45 PM, Yasai.3549 said:

I kinda hate the feeling of my trait choices being limited to "Pick this one because it's the best but it's only the best by default"

Empty Vessel was exactly that and there was no reason to go without it which on top of the toxic gameplay was killing all opportunities to use anything else.

Most seem to forget anyway that Anet did take all the easy short stunbreaks out of the game, not only Revenant.

One can argue that Salvation is mandatory but that's only for those who can't manage conditions as well as some other people can.

[Yasai.3549]

42 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Empty Vessel was exactly that and there was no reason to go without it which on top of the toxic gameplay was killing all opportunities to use anything else.

Most seem to forget anyway that Anet did take all the easy short stunbreaks out of the game, not only Revenant.

One can argue that Salvation is mandatory but that's only for those who can't manage conditions as well as some other people can.

Empty Vessel was worse imo because it was a Minor. You basically HAD to take Invocation or else you had no stunbreak, especially on Ventari. Now Invocation still hold a monopoly on Revenant builds but for Fury as well as bonus damage for having Fury. I wish they would rework Assassin's Presence already so that it had better Fury uptime. I'd take anything, even something like "Gain Fury when you use a Movement skill" 

And nah, Salvation is the traitline for Revenants who can handle their condis properly. The dodge roll is costly to waste on simply removing 1 Condi at a time. People who can't handle Condi on Revenant would straight up use Retribution for Versed in Stone. That one really handles any sort of condi damage, especially if against those "Burst and I'm dry" sort of Condi builds.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Yasai.3549

[Shao.7236]

14 hours ago, Yasai.3549 said:

Empty Vessel was worse imo because it was a Minor. You basically HAD to take Invocation or else you had no stunbreak, especially on Ventari. Now Invocation still hold a monopoly on Revenant builds but for Fury as well as bonus damage for having Fury. I wish they would rework Assassin's Presence already so that it had better Fury uptime. I'd take anything, even something like "Gain Fury when you use a Movement skill" 

And nah, Salvation is the traitline for Revenants who can handle their condis properly. The dodge roll is costly to waste on simply removing 1 Condi at a time. People who can't handle Condi on Revenant would straight up use Retribution for Versed in Stone. That one really handles any sort of condi damage, especially if against those "Burst and I'm dry" sort of Condi builds.

Dunno man, people just evade often because why not and it works in their favor pretty well if they just evade after burst with last in first out.

If Versed in Stone was really "the" choice I sure as hell never saw it once if at all in PvP, but Salvation? I see it all the time.

[Yasai.3549]

52 minutes ago, Shao.7236 said:

Dunno man, people just evade often because why not and it works in their favor pretty well if they just evade after burst with last in first out.

If Versed in Stone was really "the" choice I sure as hell never saw it once if at all in PvP, but Salvation? I see it all the time.

Versed in Stone gets used more in WvW roaming due to the isolated case by case encounters.

In sPvP, I expect people are using Salvation more for Barrier and letting the team's cleanses spill over. On the flip side, Salvation also helps cleanse for your team too and grant them DR. All round much better than Retribution for team fights. I don't sPvP often so if I'm wrong anywhere my bad. 

 

[Shao.7236]

I won't disagree that Versed in Stone is superior and more broad overall for teamfights because you don't need stats to make it worthwhile. It's just that "nobody" plays Jalis typically so you don't really ever see it being used at all.

Take it from me, I've done RotGD enough in tf's to know it's value and definitely more so with a support. There is a lot of value in doubling the team HP, but dodging to remove condi's for solo play is just seen more because again, no one plays Jalis as often if at all in NA PvP.