How long is too long? (Instance / Boss fights).

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

To me, it's all about how interesting the content is. If an instance or boss fight lasts 2 hours but keeps tossing me pleasant surprises that perk my interest or the game mechanics are just so fun to play that I don't even realize it's been 2 hours, then 2 hours is fine. But if an instance or boss fight lasts 2 hours and it's full of the same exact activity all the way through "such as killing the same 5 monster mob, 100 different times" or "a boss fight that isn't even difficult or mechanically interesting but it just has a gazillion hit points to elongate the battle", I get bored and it turns into a headache.

If the instance is meant to be long:

• Make sure npcs talk a lot, keep the story interesting.
• Don't make the damn mobs so predictable and copy/pasted. Throw in some weird surprises so encounters feel individual and unique.
• Make bosses have less life value but more strange mechanics and more difficult. <- This makes it fun.

A good example of long instance that was done correctly, was the last battle in PoF. That was fun.

[juhani.5361]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@pah.4931 said:Length (mostly) doesn't matter. Interesting and fun is all that matters. If it's just lame mechanics, there's no reason for the fight to last more than 3 - 4 minutes. If it's awesome mechanics, 10 minutes or more can be fine.

That's actually a very good point. I would suggest that, if the encounter is designed well, DPS

shouldn't matter

all that much. It would mean that high DPS is extra insurance against the boss mechanics, but the most interesting part should be what's going on outside of some rotation. But once those mechanics are proven to be mastered by surviving them, there's no need to continuing to cycle them.

Agreed. While I generally dislike HoT maps, Dragon's stand's meta battle at the end is an example of long, but interesting. It changes up every minute or two, and you really feel like the dragon is having to huff and puff to survive. He changes tactics and targets several times, and players have to be on their toes to keep up.

So, even though quite long, it's interesting anyhow.

Now, Auric Basin's final meta boss fight is the opposite. It basically doesn't change at all, the mechanics are very simple, and you just have to keep pounding it until it dies. (Rather, all four die within a minute of each other.) That's just boring, but the loot is good enough that it's worth doing anyhow. But, I despise the actual battle.

Dragon's Stand's last fight is a tedious bore. Most portions are there to literally waste time since neither you nor the boss can do much to each other.

@juhani.5361 said:

@"Menadena.7482" said:As short as possible (a whole story step should be around 5 minutes for a solo average player unless they are doing optional achieves). I actually prefer non-instanced story steps, which seems much more open to me.

You should not come out of the first instance in the story with all your armor broken and feeling like you have had more than enough GW2 for the day.

I just finished The Departing, and I can't thumbs-up your post enough. I feel like I've been put through the wringer a thousand times. My head hurts. My soul hurts. None of my armor broke, but after ducking and dodging and falling and downed skill-ing for 20 minutes with Balthazar, then wandering around for 40+ minutes, then dodging and ducking another several minutes, I don't want to log in for at least a week :'(

And I didn't even "die" once. The instance length was ridiculous. There was too much noise and visual clutter. Too much everything. If Daybreak is anything like PoF so far, I might never touch it.

If it took 20minutes for the Balthazar fight in The Departing you will probably hate the last two bosses in Daybreak. Maybe last three. Also how does "CC that renders stability useless" sound to you? Apparently ANet loves it.

Well, thanks for the heads up :) I'll probably avoid it then, beyond entering the chapter--and then abandoning it-- one of these years to unlock the map. TBH, I've loathed most of the story fights in PoF. Especially that crystal thingie in Glint's Lair. I'd gotten the thing down to 1% health when it put a shield up. Took me another five minutes or more to get the timing just perfect to take it down-- longer than the rest of the fight. I wasn't in any real danger of dying, except of boredom and rage.

[Rauderi.8706]

@Khisanth.2948 said:Dragon's Stand's last fight is a tedious bore. Most portions are there to literally waste time since neither you nor the boss can do much to each other.

This is also true. The point from the three bosses on is built to drag the encounter out. That part I don't appreciate. The active phases should happen much more frequently.

[kharmin.7683]

@"Kiroshima.8497" said:The thing is, I'd expect the player base to have grown over the years and story missions we've had before this. So while the boss times should remain steady, they should definitely get harder as we go. Avoid increasing their health, but definitely add more mechanics and tricks.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a Mario game to have the same difficulty in 8-1 as it did in 1-1. You've been playing for a while, you should have grown as a player, and if not, well, RIP.

Good point; however, I imagine many players who have grown frustrated at the instanced content haven't continued with it, so when new chapters come out with higher "learning curves" it just increases the frustration. Personally, almost all of my characters are stopped at Claw Island because I hate that instance and would rather spend my gaming time doing other things. I have grown as a player by managing my way through open-world content in Core, HoT and PoF, but the solo instances still frustrate me.

[Khisanth.2948]

@juhani.5361 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@pah.4931 said:Length (mostly) doesn't matter. Interesting and fun is all that matters. If it's just lame mechanics, there's no reason for the fight to last more than 3 - 4 minutes. If it's awesome mechanics, 10 minutes or more can be fine.

That's actually a very good point. I would suggest that, if the encounter is designed well, DPS

shouldn't matter

all that much. It would mean that high DPS is extra insurance against the boss mechanics, but the most interesting part should be what's going on outside of some rotation. But once those mechanics are proven to be mastered by surviving them, there's no need to continuing to cycle them.

Agreed. While I generally dislike HoT maps, Dragon's stand's meta battle at the end is an example of long, but interesting. It changes up every minute or two, and you really feel like the dragon is having to huff and puff to survive. He changes tactics and targets several times, and players have to be on their toes to keep up.

So, even though quite long, it's interesting anyhow.

Now, Auric Basin's final meta boss fight is the opposite. It basically doesn't change at all, the mechanics are very simple, and you just have to keep pounding it until it dies. (Rather, all four die within a minute of each other.) That's just boring, but the loot is good enough that it's worth doing anyhow. But, I despise the actual battle.

Dragon's Stand's last fight is a tedious bore. Most portions are there to literally waste time since neither you nor the boss can do much to each other.

@juhani.5361 said:

@"Menadena.7482" said:As short as possible (a whole story step should be around 5 minutes for a solo average player unless they are doing optional achieves). I actually prefer non-instanced story steps, which seems much more open to me.

You should not come out of the first instance in the story with all your armor broken and feeling like you have had more than enough GW2 for the day.

I just finished The Departing, and I can't thumbs-up your post enough. I feel like I've been put through the wringer a thousand times. My head hurts. My soul hurts. None of my armor broke, but after ducking and dodging and falling and downed skill-ing for 20 minutes with Balthazar, then wandering around for 40+ minutes, then dodging and ducking another several minutes, I don't want to log in for at least a week :'(

And I didn't even "die" once. The instance length was ridiculous. There was too much noise and visual clutter. Too much everything. If Daybreak is anything like PoF so far, I might never touch it.

If it took 20minutes for the Balthazar fight in The Departing you will probably hate the last two bosses in Daybreak. Maybe last three. Also how does "CC that renders stability useless" sound to you? Apparently ANet loves it.

Well, thanks for the heads up :) I'll probably avoid it then, beyond entering the chapter--and then abandoning it-- one of these years to unlock the map. TBH, I've loathed most of the story fights in PoF. Especially that crystal thingie in Glint's Lair. I'd gotten the thing down to 1% health when it put a shield up. Took me another five minutes or more to get the timing just perfect to take it down-- longer than the rest of the fight. I wasn't in any real danger of dying, except of boredom and rage.

Heh I did that properly the first time but second time around I just did it lazily(because that character can) and just autoattacked it while I as semi AFK.

[Taygus.4571]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Kiroshima.8497" said:The thing is, I'd expect the player base to have grown over the years and story missions we've had before this. So while the boss times should remain steady, they should definitely get harder as we go. Avoid increasing their health, but definitely add more mechanics and tricks.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a Mario game to have the same difficulty in 8-1 as it did in 1-1. You've been playing for a while, you should have grown as a player, and if not, well, RIP.

Good point; however, I imagine many players who have grown frustrated at the instanced content haven't continued with it, so when new chapters come out with higher "learning curves" it just increases the frustration. Personally, almost all of my characters are stopped at Claw Island because I hate that instance and would rather spend my gaming time doing other things. I have grown as a player by managing my way through open-world content in Core, HoT and PoF, but the solo instances still frustrate me.

This is true.There has to be a cut off point on the increasing difficulty. .or an easy mode.Or less able players just quit.

I find the bosses as it is, have too much going. And i often don't enjoy them. I don't think Id even try them if they get any harder, as it's not what's fun for me.

And you can't compare an RPG to mario. Mario's skill cap is much lower. Has check points and items to help. Like the P suit in Mario bros 3 or invincibility in New Mario Bros 2. Which effectively skip half the difficulty.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Kiroshima.8497" said:The thing is, I'd expect the player base to have grown over the years and story missions we've had before this. So while the boss times should remain steady, they should definitely get harder as we go. Avoid increasing their health, but definitely add more mechanics and tricks.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a Mario game to have the same difficulty in 8-1 as it did in 1-1. You've been playing for a while, you should have grown as a player, and if not, well, RIP.

Good point; however, I imagine many players who have grown frustrated at the instanced content haven't continued with it, so when new chapters come out with higher "learning curves" it just increases the frustration. Personally, almost all of my characters are stopped at Claw Island because I hate that instance and would rather spend my gaming time doing other things. I have grown as a player by managing my way through open-world content in Core, HoT and PoF, but the solo instances still frustrate me.

This is true.There has to be a cut off point on the increasing difficulty. .or an easy mode.Or less able players just quit.

I find the bosses as it is, have too much going. And i often don't enjoy them. I don't think Id even try them if they get any harder, as it's not what's fun for me.

And you can't compare an RPG to mario. Mario's skill cap is much lower. Has check points and items to help. Like the P suit in Mario bros 3 or invincibility in New Mario Bros 2. Which effectively skip half the difficulty.

Lower skill cap make it so level wont matter

[Taygus.4571]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Kiroshima.8497" said:The thing is, I'd expect the player base to have grown over the years and story missions we've had before this. So while the boss times should remain steady, they should definitely get harder as we go. Avoid increasing their health, but definitely add more mechanics and tricks.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a Mario game to have the same difficulty in 8-1 as it did in 1-1. You've been playing for a while, you should have grown as a player, and if not, well, RIP.

Good point; however, I imagine many players who have grown frustrated at the instanced content haven't continued with it, so when new chapters come out with higher "learning curves" it just increases the frustration. Personally, almost all of my characters are stopped at Claw Island because I hate that instance and would rather spend my gaming time doing other things. I have grown as a player by managing my way through open-world content in Core, HoT and PoF, but the solo instances still frustrate me.

This is true.There has to be a cut off point on the increasing difficulty. .or an easy mode.Or less able players just quit.

I find the bosses as it is, have too much going. And i often don't enjoy them. I don't think Id even try them if they get any harder, as it's not what's fun for me.

And you can't compare an RPG to mario. Mario's skill cap is much lower. Has check points and items to help. Like the P suit in Mario bros 3 or invincibility in New Mario Bros 2. Which effectively skip half the difficulty.

Lower skill cap make it so level wont matter

Huh? Care to expand?

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Kiroshima.8497" said:The thing is, I'd expect the player base to have grown over the years and story missions we've had before this. So while the boss times should remain steady, they should definitely get harder as we go. Avoid increasing their health, but definitely add more mechanics and tricks.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a Mario game to have the same difficulty in 8-1 as it did in 1-1. You've been playing for a while, you should have grown as a player, and if not, well, RIP.

Good point; however, I imagine many players who have grown frustrated at the instanced content haven't continued with it, so when new chapters come out with higher "learning curves" it just increases the frustration. Personally, almost all of my characters are stopped at Claw Island because I hate that instance and would rather spend my gaming time doing other things. I have grown as a player by managing my way through open-world content in Core, HoT and PoF, but the solo instances still frustrate me.

This is true.There has to be a cut off point on the increasing difficulty. .or an easy mode.Or less able players just quit.

I find the bosses as it is, have too much going. And i often don't enjoy them. I don't think Id even try them if they get any harder, as it's not what's fun for me.

And you can't compare an RPG to mario. Mario's skill cap is much lower. Has check points and items to help. Like the P suit in Mario bros 3 or invincibility in New Mario Bros 2. Which effectively skip half the difficulty.

Lower skill cap make it so level wont matter

Huh? Care to expand?

Make it so easy a lvl 1 can do it with easy so will most be happy not me really but i get that many play too relax not for challenge

[Taygus.4571]

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@Laila Lightness.8742 said:

@Taygus.4571 said:

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Kiroshima.8497" said:The thing is, I'd expect the player base to have grown over the years and story missions we've had before this. So while the boss times should remain steady, they should definitely get harder as we go. Avoid increasing their health, but definitely add more mechanics and tricks.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a Mario game to have the same difficulty in 8-1 as it did in 1-1. You've been playing for a while, you should have grown as a player, and if not, well, RIP.

Good point; however, I imagine many players who have grown frustrated at the instanced content haven't continued with it, so when new chapters come out with higher "learning curves" it just increases the frustration. Personally, almost all of my characters are stopped at Claw Island because I hate that instance and would rather spend my gaming time doing other things. I have grown as a player by managing my way through open-world content in Core, HoT and PoF, but the solo instances still frustrate me.

This is true.There has to be a cut off point on the increasing difficulty. .or an easy mode.Or less able players just quit.

I find the bosses as it is, have too much going. And i often don't enjoy them. I don't think Id even try them if they get any harder, as it's not what's fun for me.

And you can't compare an RPG to mario. Mario's skill cap is much lower. Has check points and items to help. Like the P suit in Mario bros 3 or invincibility in New Mario Bros 2. Which effectively skip half the difficulty.

Lower skill cap make it so level wont matter

Huh? Care to expand?

Make it so easy a lvl 1 can do it with easy so will most be happy not me really but i get that many play too relax not for challenge

It doesn't have to be ridiculous.

A little less AoE's and less health and lowee damage would improve it plenty, for people less able.I'm sure this would be easily do able while then offering a hard mode for the bosses.This would suit both crowds.

Why is it those who favour hard-core, often react with "yeah, nerf it for level 1 or one shot, that's fun" when someone suggests making story instances a lil easier? This isn't what people are asking for.

Anyway my original post was on duration. And it seems the majority of commenters would prefer shorter instances.

An example is Mord. fight. It would've been much better to split the first two bosses from the last one.I've had to leave that story 3 times now, due to not having time to complete it. It's extremely boring repeating it all.

[juhani.5361]

@kharmin.7683 said:

@"Kiroshima.8497" said:The thing is, I'd expect the player base to have grown over the years and story missions we've had before this. So while the boss times should remain steady, they should definitely get harder as we go. Avoid increasing their health, but definitely add more mechanics and tricks.

I mean, you wouldn't expect a Mario game to have the same difficulty in 8-1 as it did in 1-1. You've been playing for a while, you should have grown as a player, and if not, well, RIP.

Good point; however, I imagine many players who have grown frustrated at the instanced content haven't continued with it, so when new chapters come out with higher "learning curves" it just increases the frustration. Personally, almost all of my characters are stopped at Claw Island because I hate that instance and would rather spend my gaming time doing other things. I have grown as a player by managing my way through open-world content in Core, HoT and PoF, but the solo instances still frustrate me.

There's another couple of assumptions going with the OP here that are reasonable, but probably not representative of the current player base: A) that players are doing the content in official chronological/story order (LWS 2/HoT/LWS 3/PoF) and b. that players have been around for years. Neither assumption is unreasonable at all, especially if you're* a multi-year vet with a collection of long-term friends and guild(s). You've probably logged on regularly, done the expansions and Living World seasons as they've released. You've probably done fractals/dungeons, etc. until you're sick to death of them. Your skill has grown and you've learned to outthink ANet at its own game. You may or may not be in ANet's most populated age demographic (per the poll, 20s-40s), so your reflexes may well be at their prime.

*"You" is a hypothetical veteran player who has logged in regularly and played for years.

A lot of us are either newer or have a much more spotty history with story content. Personally, I've done a lot of the instanced content. I've also quit out on a lot of it. My cumulative time with the game is about 8 mos. The content itself has been very mixed in terms of difficulty for me. Some of the hardest stuff for me has been in the early parts of the game or later. Don't get me going about one of the early Sylvari quests with waves of invading undead or trying to take the Priory back from the Dredge in the Norn Vigil questline or most of the Priory stuff. Instanced content has always been a crapshoot in terms of difficulty.

I've given up a lot from frustration. I won't roll a Priory or Shadows alt anymore. I made it halfway through LW Season 2 before giving up entirely. "Hidden Arcana" did me in with its annoying mechanics and buggy crystal boss.** HoT was too much of a pain in the you-know-what with the mastery system and low XP from mobs to get past the frog village. I've made it 95% of the way through PoF. Open world combat difficulty has been fairly consistent between Silverwastes/Drytop and PoF and HoT, but the instanced fights have been all over the map difficulty-wise. Instances where I've been able to use my actual combat skills, I've been fine. It's the weird mechanics and "innovation" that have done me in. Not to mention bugs, like boss attacks not telegraphing correctly or random bits of server lag recently.

** Those tiny crystals don't show up anymore during the fight. I watched the battle on YouTube after insta-dying ten times, only to find out that it casts a field of exploding crystals after the shield attack.

[juhani.5361]

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@juhani.5361 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@pah.4931 said:Length (mostly) doesn't matter. Interesting and fun is all that matters. If it's just lame mechanics, there's no reason for the fight to last more than 3 - 4 minutes. If it's awesome mechanics, 10 minutes or more can be fine.

That's actually a very good point. I would suggest that, if the encounter is designed well, DPS

shouldn't matter

all that much. It would mean that high DPS is extra insurance against the boss mechanics, but the most interesting part should be what's going on outside of some rotation. But once those mechanics are proven to be mastered by surviving them, there's no need to continuing to cycle them.

Agreed. While I generally dislike HoT maps, Dragon's stand's meta battle at the end is an example of long, but interesting. It changes up every minute or two, and you really feel like the dragon is having to huff and puff to survive. He changes tactics and targets several times, and players have to be on their toes to keep up.

So, even though quite long, it's interesting anyhow.

Now, Auric Basin's final meta boss fight is the opposite. It basically doesn't change at all, the mechanics are very simple, and you just have to keep pounding it until it dies. (Rather, all four die within a minute of each other.) That's just boring, but the loot is good enough that it's worth doing anyhow. But, I despise the actual battle.

Dragon's Stand's last fight is a tedious bore. Most portions are there to literally waste time since neither you nor the boss can do much to each other.

@juhani.5361 said:

@"Menadena.7482" said:As short as possible (a whole story step should be around 5 minutes for a solo average player unless they are doing optional achieves). I actually prefer non-instanced story steps, which seems much more open to me.

You should not come out of the first instance in the story with all your armor broken and feeling like you have had more than enough GW2 for the day.

I just finished The Departing, and I can't thumbs-up your post enough. I feel like I've been put through the wringer a thousand times. My head hurts. My soul hurts. None of my armor broke, but after ducking and dodging and falling and downed skill-ing for 20 minutes with Balthazar, then wandering around for 40+ minutes, then dodging and ducking another several minutes, I don't want to log in for at least a week :'(

And I didn't even "die" once. The instance length was ridiculous. There was too much noise and visual clutter. Too much everything. If Daybreak is anything like PoF so far, I might never touch it.

If it took 20minutes for the Balthazar fight in The Departing you will probably hate the last two bosses in Daybreak. Maybe last three. Also how does "CC that renders stability useless" sound to you? Apparently ANet loves it.

Well, thanks for the heads up :) I'll probably avoid it then, beyond entering the chapter--and then abandoning it-- one of these years to unlock the map. TBH, I've loathed most of the story fights in PoF. Especially that crystal thingie in Glint's Lair. I'd gotten the thing down to 1% health when it put a shield up. Took me another five minutes or more to get the timing just perfect to take it down-- longer than the rest of the fight. I wasn't in any real danger of dying, except of boredom and rage.

Heh I did that properly the first time but second time around I just did it lazily(because that character can) and just autoattacked it while I as semi AFK.

OMG, how? How? I tried all kinds of "innovation," like dodging inside its shield and attacking at melee range, hanging out with freeloading Kas, Rytlock and Canoch in their little happy shield bubble. Seriously, I'm the commander. Why aren't they doing any work? None of that made a dent in the last teeny sliver of health once the shield was up.

[Khisanth.2948]

@juhani.5361 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@juhani.5361 said:

@Khisanth.2948 said:

@Daddicus.6128 said:

@Rauderi.8706 said:

@pah.4931 said:Length (mostly) doesn't matter. Interesting and fun is all that matters. If it's just lame mechanics, there's no reason for the fight to last more than 3 - 4 minutes. If it's awesome mechanics, 10 minutes or more can be fine.

That's actually a very good point. I would suggest that, if the encounter is designed well, DPS

shouldn't matter

all that much. It would mean that high DPS is extra insurance against the boss mechanics, but the most interesting part should be what's going on outside of some rotation. But once those mechanics are proven to be mastered by surviving them, there's no need to continuing to cycle them.

Agreed. While I generally dislike HoT maps, Dragon's stand's meta battle at the end is an example of long, but interesting. It changes up every minute or two, and you really feel like the dragon is having to huff and puff to survive. He changes tactics and targets several times, and players have to be on their toes to keep up.

So, even though quite long, it's interesting anyhow.

Now, Auric Basin's final meta boss fight is the opposite. It basically doesn't change at all, the mechanics are very simple, and you just have to keep pounding it until it dies. (Rather, all four die within a minute of each other.) That's just boring, but the loot is good enough that it's worth doing anyhow. But, I despise the actual battle.

Dragon's Stand's last fight is a tedious bore. Most portions are there to literally waste time since neither you nor the boss can do much to each other.

@juhani.5361 said:

@"Menadena.7482" said:As short as possible (a whole story step should be around 5 minutes for a solo average player unless they are doing optional achieves). I actually prefer non-instanced story steps, which seems much more open to me.

You should not come out of the first instance in the story with all your armor broken and feeling like you have had more than enough GW2 for the day.

I just finished The Departing, and I can't thumbs-up your post enough. I feel like I've been put through the wringer a thousand times. My head hurts. My soul hurts. None of my armor broke, but after ducking and dodging and falling and downed skill-ing for 20 minutes with Balthazar, then wandering around for 40+ minutes, then dodging and ducking another several minutes, I don't want to log in for at least a week :'(

And I didn't even "die" once. The instance length was ridiculous. There was too much noise and visual clutter. Too much everything. If Daybreak is anything like PoF so far, I might never touch it.

If it took 20minutes for the Balthazar fight in The Departing you will probably hate the last two bosses in Daybreak. Maybe last three. Also how does "CC that renders stability useless" sound to you? Apparently ANet loves it.

Well, thanks for the heads up :) I'll probably avoid it then, beyond entering the chapter--and then abandoning it-- one of these years to unlock the map. TBH, I've loathed most of the story fights in PoF. Especially that crystal thingie in Glint's Lair. I'd gotten the thing down to 1% health when it put a shield up. Took me another five minutes or more to get the timing just perfect to take it down-- longer than the rest of the fight. I wasn't in any real danger of dying, except of boredom and rage.

Heh I did that properly the first time but second time around I just did it lazily(because that character can) and just autoattacked it while I as semi AFK.

OMG, how? How? I tried all kinds of "innovation," like dodging inside its shield and attacking at melee range, hanging out with freeloading Kas, Rytlock and Canoch in their little happy shield bubble. Seriously, I'm the commander. Why aren't

they

doing any work? None of that made a dent in the last teeny sliver of health once the shield was up.

I don't recall the exact details but I if I remember correctly the damage I was doing was in the double digits only because of the shield but the damage it did to me wasn't much either.

[Menadena.7482]

@Hevoskuuri.3891 said:10 minutes is the absolute maximum length for a story boss fight; any longer than that screams poor design to me. I hate bosses that are designed to be simple damage sponges or have frustrating repetitive phases/mechanics that serve no purpose other than to annoy you and delay the fight to make the story feel longer.

Unless of course there are some very unique mechanics or a clear reason for the boss lasting longer than that; expansion/last LS chapter final bosses are justified to last more than 10 minutes IMO. But mid-story bosses shouldn't.

Exactly, people expect the final boss to last longer than the others. Not that it is fun but at least it is expected. It is when a big boss occurs at some random time. Looking at you the second-to-last part of act 1 in POF. Even worse, when it is the first instance that all the content is locked behind, which anet does pretty often.

I like soloing stories but after a few last year I think I will rethink that for 2018 and look for story parties now as soon as we get a major patch.

[Chamelion.9536]

skipped the 3 pages so if I re-state anything, it's just to add to the talley. For personal instance solo stories, I would love if it had a pause button, or save points so if life gets in the way, you don't lose progress.

As for length of instances, I'm fine if they take 20-30 minutes.. especially for the end boss of a Living World story released every few months.

[reikken.4961]

I haven't had an issue of anything recent being too long. The only thing that's ever too long is unskippable dialog that you don't want to hear. You should be able to skip that stuff if you've seen it before. (or even if you haven't)

The only other change I would make is giving story instances a difficulty selection of some kind. A really practiced player with a good build and gear will clear enemies and bosses and traps a lot faster than a new player will, or a player who just doesn't seek challenge. So it would be nice to have some kind of adjustment.

[Khisanth.2948]

@reikken.4961 said:I haven't had an issue of anything recent being too long. The only thing that's ever too long is unskippable dialog that you don't want to hear. You should be able to skip that stuff if you've seen it before. (or even if you haven't)

The only other change I would make is giving story instances a difficulty selection of some kind. A really practiced player with a good build and gear will clear enemies and bosses and traps a lot faster than a new player will, or a player who just doesn't seek challenge. So it would be nice to have some kind of adjustment.

Especially when they are getting increasingly more long winded.

[Zoltreez.6435]

a boss fight should not take longer then 10 min... No matter what..... Except maybe bosses with Cool HUGE game changing Phases so you dont bore to death...

Some boss fights take so long that when the boss is at 50% HP i just wish i would get killed by the boss or something so i finaly can take a rest on the floor as a dead body and go drink or check the forums or Stretch a litle or anything just no more fighting that boss.......lol

MMORPG devs needs to Learn that HP SPONGE BOSSES ARE BAD AND UNFUN DESIGN !!!!!!!!!!!

[Taygus.4571]

@reikken.4961 said:I haven't had an issue of anything recent being too long. The only thing that's ever too long is unskippable dialog that you don't want to hear. You should be able to skip that stuff if you've seen it before. (or even if you haven't)

The only other change I would make is giving story instances a difficulty selection of some kind. A really practiced player with a good build and gear will clear enemies and bosses and traps a lot faster than a new player will, or a player who just doesn't seek challenge. So it would be nice to have some kind of adjustment.

I'd love a difficulty selector.But the instances can be quite long, especially if you fail often or dc.

Check points would really make then more enjoyable. So that you could leave an instance part done and continue the next day or if you dc, you don't have as much to get through.

[mauried.5608]

Id love to see boss fights which arnt simply keyboard dexterity tests.Far too much emphasis on fast movement in order to survive, which means rapid keyboard punching on a continuous basis.I no longer do any of the living stories as they simply arnt fun, even when I actually get thru them.

[Elva.6372]

@"mauried.5608" said:Id love to see boss fights which arnt simply keyboard dexterity tests.Far too much emphasis on fast movement in order to survive, which means rapid keyboard punching on a continuous basis.I no longer do any of the living stories as they simply arnt fun, even when I actually get thru them.

I feel the same way, I am at the point where I really no longer enjoy the difficulty and tedious natures of the "stories".... I want the story with out some huge ordeal of really annoying mechanics and long drawn out encounters. The last one for me was the Volcano Balthazar's dogs...I had great difficulty timing the dog kills and targeting their corpses while aloft...I quit that chapter only to find the floor trap garbage waiting for me in the next chapter.

So, I guess I surrender, I wanted to follow the story but not if all I get is frustration....no enjoyment only relief if I do manage to complete it after multiple deaths/reattempts.

I am going to stick to WvW and PvE open world from now on...

[Taygus.4571]

@Elva.6372 said:.

I am going to stick to WvW and PvE open world from now on...

This, I haven't bothered with a story step in awhile. They just aren't fun anymore.Which is disappointing.

On the other hand, I've since discovered the fun in WvW, a game mode, I never really played much of before.