Ranger's Spirit Bug?

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

So I don't know if its me, but I noticed that all the other spirits boons and conditions are able to be effected by stats, However there is one particular spirit that isn't effect by stats at all and that is storm's spirit Call lightning.

Unlike the other spirit which can be effected by condition damage, expertise and concentration, Storm spirit is effect by the previously mentioned stats however, it is not effected by your power stat. 

Was it intend this way? On the wiki it says it has a coefficient on it but it doesn't uses your stat.  Its would be a weird decision because sun spirit damage is effected by your condition damage stat so why isn't storm spirit effected by your power stat?

[Beddo.1907]

As the wiki page says, the ranger stats don't affect it, so it's not just you.

Why? No clue honestly.

[Dadnir.5038]

Been like that since release. The "rule" also apply for necromancer's minions and engineer's turrets (I'd add elementalist's summoned elementals but I'm not quite sure).

I think it's because they wanted to keep those kind of utilities damage output under control (which is reasonable when you look at the mess that mechanist's jade mech created).

[Zyreva.1078]

2 hours ago, Dadnir.5038 said:

Been like that since release. The "rule" also apply for necromancer's minions and engineer's turrets (I'd add elementalist's summoned elementals but I'm not quite sure).

I think it's because they wanted to keep those kind of utilities damage output under control (which is reasonable when you look at the mess that mechanist's jade mech created).

Ranger spirits aren't summons that deal dmg on their own (also since the rework they don't even persist), so not compareable to the skills mentioned at all. They are closer to guardian's spirit weapons, and those scale with players stats.

[Dadnir.5038]

Just now, Zyreva.1078 said:

Ranger spirits aren't summons that deal dmg on their own (also since the rework they don't even persist), so not compareable to the skills mentioned at all. They are closer to guardian's spirit weapons, and those scale with players stats.

I'm talking about the active skills of those utility thought. Which is exactly the same as the active skills of spirits. This simply how the devs have designed "utility pets".

[Zyreva.1078]

Spirits don't "have" skills, they are a skill. They are not separate entities anymore, unlike all the other skills you mentioned, so no, it's not the same.

Edited January 12 by Zyreva.1078

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Yeah, it's definitely effected by precision/ferocity--quick tests on a PvE golem confirmed what I have been seeing in PvP.  If used on a condi Druid with 1k power, it might hit for 3-4k dmg, but if used on full on power untamed, crits for 10k (~7k in PvP).  

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Spirits don't "have" skills, they are a skill. They are not separate entities anymore, unlike all the other skills you mentioned, so no, it's not the same.

They do, it's called a 'slam':

Call Lightning (Ranger) - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Notice it even says 'storm spirit skill', as the 'slams' are secondary skill they use after initially giving an effect (for storm its daze and vuln).

Think the overall here is storm spirit is crazy powerful, so let's not mess with it.  

Edited January 12 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

4 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Yeah, it's definitely effected by precision/ferocity--quick tests on a PvE golem confirmed what I have been seeing in PvP.  If used on a condi Druid with 1k power, it might hit for 3-4k dmg, but if used on full on power untamed, crits for 10k (~7k in PvP).  

They do, it's called a 'slam':

Call Lightning (Ranger) - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Notice it even says 'storm spirit skill', as the 'slams' are secondary skill they use after initially giving an effect (for storm its daze and vuln).

Think the overall here is storm spirit is crazy powerful, so let's not mess with it.  

yeah just found it weird its the only utility that isnt effected by a major stat, sun spirit is still effected by condition damage. But I understand why for balancing reasons it just an interesting obversation to point out after realizing that.

 

A full cele build might make an actual good use for it.

Edited January 13 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Zyreva.1078]

13 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

They do, it's called a 'slam':

Call Lightning (Ranger) - Guild Wars 2 Wiki (GW2W)

Notice it even says 'storm spirit skill', as the 'slams' are secondary skill they use after initially giving an effect (for storm its daze and vuln).

Think the overall here is storm spirit is crazy powerful, so let's not mess with it.  

That's more flavour text than description of functionality.

Spirit weapons also have a description that suggests, it's the summoned weapon doing something, yet those are players skills with regular player stat scaling.

 

[Levetty.1279]

Are people really trying to argue Spirits are pets...

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

15 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Notice it even says 'storm spirit skill', as the 'slams' are secondary skill they use after initially giving an effect (for storm its daze and vuln).

Think the overall here is storm spirit is crazy powerful, so let's not mess with it.  

 

15 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

That's more flavour text than description of functionality.

Spirit weapons also have a description that suggests, it's the summoned weapon doing something, yet those are players skills with regular player stat scaling.

 

Just to point out, you can still effect sun spirit damage with condition damage and you can get it to hit hard and high if you wanted too. You'd just have to jump over alot of hoops to do it but it's possible.

 

The other thing is that, you can double dip it with might, since they are still considered an entity, so when might is applied to them they gain that power bonus which can lead it to hit hard.  I naturally got storm spirit to hit 16k within two slams and thats only 14 stacks of might on it.

Edited January 14 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[Gotejjeken.1267]

16 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

That's more flavour text than description of functionality.

Spirit weapons also have a description that suggests, it's the summoned weapon doing something, yet those are players skills with regular player stat scaling.

 

You think they actually recoded them into a skill instead of a summoned entity? It'd be way less work to leave the entity rules in place and have them just automatically provide the secondary effect and then disappear then it would be to rework the rules entirely.  

I say that as they have always been entities, and the rules for them haven't changed since they could walk around.  Only things that have changed are being static / destroyable with ability to trigger their 'skill', and now static / indestructible with everything occurring automatically on skill use.  

It's the only thing to me that explains the buggy interactions, because we have both situations--one where player stats affect the damage output (sun spirit), and the other where they do not (storm spirit), however the spirit is affected by boons such as might and fury.  

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

You can make them invisible as well! with druid at least for a fun fact.

[anduriell.6280]

Question: are the spirits still like unplayable garbage or did anet improved on them?

 

[Zyreva.1078]

On 1/14/2024 at 2:45 AM, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

You think they actually recoded them into a skill instead of a summoned entity?

I don't know how the coding in the background looks like, and yes, it is very likely that they are still treated as seperate summon in the background.

All i'm saying is, that it doesn't make much sense anymore to treat them like seperate entities, as their functionality differs greatly from all the other skills, that actually summon some sort of "pet" and the way spirits scale (or not scale) appears to be inconsistent and buggy.

But it's also not having a whole lot of negative impact for the class, other than maybe confusing some players, so it's whatever ...

Edited January 15 by Zyreva.1078

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

On 1/14/2024 at 11:37 AM, anduriell.6280 said:

Question: are the spirits still like unplayable garbage or did anet improved on them?

 

Eh, Really depends on the perspective or game mode your looking. Storm spirit seems to have some decent use in Pvp and WvW. It kinda strong with Nature's Vengeance, and for the added effect of opening strike kinda has a strong burst window. I've gotten some lucky damage on people of 8k per slam.... 16k if both hits with modifers. It's also an Aoe so a good setup can burst multiple people at the same time.

Here are some samples

Sample 1 - video

Sample 2 - video

Sample 3 - video

Sample 4 - video

Sample 5 - video

Sample 6 - video

Damage Log - 1

Damage log - 2

 

You can get it to hit really hard if you juice your ferocity. I hope this answers your question whether its good or not.

Also some of those fights I was playing Core Ranger.

It generally has good synergy with Sword and Hammer, since when the opponent is disable/defiant you get the added effect from the weapon abilities.

 

 

 

 

Edited January 16 by Oahkahmewolf.6210

[DarkFlopy.8197]

On 1/14/2024 at 6:37 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Question: are the spirits still like unplayable garbage or did anet improved on them?

 

I believe so, they don't just work out of the box for anything, it needs to be synergized IMO.

17 hours ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

Eh, Really depends on the perspective or game mode your looking. Storm spirit seems to have some decent use in Pvp and WvW. It kinda strong with Nature's Vengeance, and for the added effect of opening strike kinda has a strong burst window. I've gotten some lucky damage on people of 8k per slam.... 16k if both hits with modifers. It's also an Aoe so a good setup can burst multiple people at the same time.

Here are some samples

Sample 1 - video

Sample 2 - video

Sample 3 - video

Sample 4 - video

Sample 5 - video

Sample 6 - video

Damage Log - 1

Damage log - 2

 

You can get it to hit really hard if you juice your ferocity. I hope this answers your question whether its good or not.

Also some of those fights I was playing Core Ranger.

It generally has good synergy with Sword and Hammer, since when the opponent is disable/defiant you get the added effect from the weapon abilities.

 

 

 

 

Personally I have been running Stone Spirit in my build for a while now preparing  for the maces, trying to get out of Wilderness Survival jail and looks like I made it, I do not know the real potential of the build yet since it's made for the maces to be included in the weapon set.

I have been running with the Stone Spirit for the protection pulses and for the cripple/weakness on slam, I am not sure about Nature's Vengeance tho.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

2 hours ago, DarkFlopy.8197 said:

I am not sure about Nature's Vengeance tho.

I only found that good with Storm spirit, if you seen the video you can see it slamming twice.

[DarkFlopy.8197]

5 minutes ago, Oahkahmewolf.6210 said:

I only found that good with Storm spirit, if you seen the video you can see it slamming twice.

Yeah I know, I guess it depends on which spirit is being used, for example Stone Spirit requires you to stay on it for the protection pulses since it's used more defensively but Storm Spirit on the other hand is more aggressive so you will want to place it on the enemy which where Nature's Vengeance is more beneficial.

Edited January 16 by DarkFlopy.8197

[anduriell.6280]

Also I think  anet removed the internal cooldown on the cleanse on dodge trait so maybe it is true we can get out of the wilderness survival trait line jail. 
 

Sounds interesting. 

[ZeftheWicked.3076]

Welp why don't I throw in my 3 cents.

Storm spirit can be boosted by might, but not one applied to your own character.
It needs to receive it like any other player - via AoE application.
Of course due to it's very short window of existence that is rather hard and the second slam from nature's vengeance has only 50% of initial one's power.

Things are no less weird when putting Moment of Clarity and Remorseless traits to work.
First Strike will ensure crit on all targets hit, but only one target will suffer 25% increased damage from Remorseless.

It gets even weirder if you have Attack of Opportunity up from a previous interrupt.
One target will take damage amped by both First Strike and Attack of Opportunity, stacking multiplicatively.
Another one will take damage amped by 25% from first strike only.
Rest will take normal damage, but still at 100% crit chance.

Edited January 30 by ZeftheWicked.3076

[Remus Darkblight.1673]

On 1/12/2024 at 6:47 PM, Zyreva.1078 said:

Spirits don't "have" skills, they are a skill. They are not separate entities anymore, unlike all the other skills you mentioned, so no, it's not the same.

Except they do. When you activate a spirit utility it summons the spirit at the target location. The spirit itself grants the effect of the tooltip, then slams and casts a completely different skill before disappearing. If you trait Nature's Vengeance it will slam again after a few seconds, and then disappear.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Storm_Spirit

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Call_Lightning_(Ranger)

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Spirit

Water Spirit Aqua Surge heals for more based on your healing power

Sun Spirit Solar Flare deals more burning 

Storm Spirit Call Lightning deals fixed damage and is unaffected by your power

The boons/conditions caused by the spirit skills themselves are all affected by your concentration/expertise, including Storm Spirit.

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

On 1/30/2024 at 1:30 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Also I think  anet removed the internal cooldown on the cleanse on dodge trait so maybe it is true we can get out of the wilderness survival trait line jail. 
 

Sounds interesting. 

its alright by itself, but great if you pair it up with energy sigils. I'm waiting for the day they make it on Dodge & Evade, Then it would be more great alternative to wilderness survivals condition cleansing.  If they include the evade part, well then you can clear a condi on sword 3, Dagger 4, Greatsword 3, Griffon stance, Lightning reflex and devourer merge retreat. One could only dream 😄

[DarkFlopy.8197]

On 1/30/2024 at 8:30 PM, anduriell.6280 said:

Also I think  anet removed the internal cooldown on the cleanse on dodge trait so maybe it is true we can get out of the wilderness survival trait line jail. 
 

Sounds interesting. 

They did, I have tested it yesterday and it doesn't have an internal cooldown. I wanted to pair it with antitoxin relic for extra benefit but it has an internal cooldown (I have tested it multiple times and recorded it to verify)

Personally I can totally see wilderness survival not being used and I am running a roaming build (power melee untamed) without wilderness survival, the thing is wilderness survival had 3 key features why it was the preferred choice:

1) condi cleanse

2) fury uptime

3) stab and protection

You can get the fury and the protection from other sources and "somewhat close" to the same condi cleanse but still there are some things that wilderness survival has that others don't like the stab and heal with protection.

Edited February 1 by DarkFlopy.8197

[Bastrii.3047]

I actually find the spirits really powerful as a hybrid, more than any other utility at times, especially as druid. The damage potential is not absurd (as you're not focusing on one stat), but it's definitely potent on top of powerful sustain.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?POgAMZlJwOYKsN2JO2Tat7BkA-DyIY1oivMCLBatAkf0UgfNQFA-e

This is the build I run for general play. It's basically pure AoE. Storm Spirit is a free 7-14k damage. I'm constantly at 25 might. It's raining arrows around me half the time. I can self-blast during Rejuvinating Tides for AoE burst healing, while at the same time pumping out more boons than I can handle. I basically never have to leave longbow because I'm essentially pushing out constant, non-stop, area wide damage, and when I'm on cooldown for longbow skills, I just enter CA.

The pros are that this build is super flexible and tanky. Anything around you or your spirits is never going to have a chance to deal damage, because they are 1. Dazed, 2. Rooted, or 3. Blinded. On top of all other effects, like Chilled, Crippled, and Weakened from Call of the Wild. And your damage output, while not game-breaking or topping charts, is decent enough while providing a ton of healing and boon coverage.

I'd suspect a build like this would be toxic in PvP, if it didn't have longer cooldowns on the spirits and CA. Because you can use Spirits in stealth, without breaking stealth. Then you can end stealth with CA for free CC. I honestly wouldn't know what to do during this if I was desperately trying to cap a point and suddenly, a hailstorm of CC, AoE, and Condis began to rain down on top of me. And the person doing it all is invisible, and about to dazelock me. Thankfully, the cooldowns in PvP are too long to encourage nuking, and people can still outrun it if they're smart. On top of this, you'd still want CC break, so you'd have to drop *something* for it.