DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Gehenna.3625 said: the difference between a boonball and a group of players that isn't as well organised is humongous Yes, there needs to be more equality by design and the ceiling brought down a bit. Boons and Aura spamming have always been overpowered in the mode and it needs to be addressed. The amount of pulls in the mode needs to be nerfed too and Moa finally removed entirely. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 minutes ago, ArgothCZ.6420 said: Similar balance could be achieved by letting people transfer and incentivising transfers to (and playing on) weaker/underpopulated servers. Currently, there is basically no bonus/penalty for playing while being outnumbered or against outnumbered (everyone cares about bags these days and they drop regardless). Hmm i don’t think people transfer because of loot. They transfer because they don’t like to get outnumbered and ganked. as soon as you open transfers, a bandwagon-moment will set in and we have maguuma 2.0 i think. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 Just now, CafPow.1542 said: as soon as you open transfers, a bandwagon-moment will set in and we have maguuma 2.0 Mag wasn't a problem to fight, in fact they were the most fun to fight the past few months. The problem continues to be the Dev's trying to control and micromanage us. How can a proper counter force arise to a "Mag2.0" when the Dev's are keeping everyone else locked down? That's the problem, it has been for years, the players fighting the Dev's. Opening worlds and leaving them open is a better solution. 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 24 minutes ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Opening worlds and leaving them open is a better solution. So they will be even more piled up, and those who are outnumbered will be even more outnumbered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArgothCZ.6420 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 6 minutes ago, CafPow.1542 said: Hmm i don’t think people transfer because of loot. They transfer because they don’t like to get outnumbered and ganked. as soon as you open transfers, a bandwagon-moment will set in and we have maguuma 2.0 i think. I see bandwagon moments as a symptom of an underlying issue. No one wants to be on the losing side because it sucks and choosing to help the losing side gives nothing back. When farmers bunch up together and start farming one side, others will join them for various reasons. One of them is other people going elsewhere for the benefit of a stronger team, making the issue worse and boosting the bandwagon. I remember a few of these moments and I always heard these reasons - "They are better.", "My world is dying.", "No one is playing here." I'm fully for blocking transfers during the match (which means a transfer at most every ~2 months?) or limiting them in some way, that's fair and okay, but I wouldn't stick to WvW being bound to servers when other modes are no longer locked similarly due to megaservers. People will come and go for various reasons (real life, focus on different content, want to play something else,...), so it's much better to allow them to regroup naturally and incentivize the logical transfers or play with disadvantage rather than to keep them in server like a prison. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said: But couldn’t we more or less assume that, if all players are randomly equally distributed to all servers (i know: hypothetical scenario), those different kind of players would also be distributed equally? so if we completely forge new servers and redistribute all players random and then block every transfer forever, we would have a more or less balanced population wouldn’t we? i know this will not be done for a lot of good and bad reasons but I’m afraid that’s the only real solution. Sure. But Anet assumed groups of players, communities, still wanted to play together and thus WR came into being - a way to auto-balance worlds with more randomness yet still have long term cohesion like monolithic worlds, within limits. Technically if we want perfect balance WvW should just be 2 sides where you join the lowest populated one every time you click a map and the only thing you can play with is a core warrior with a preset build. Then again maybe some people are better at warrior than others. Hm. Its so complicated. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy.3728 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 How many players can an alliance take? When it remains an alliance war (the wvw) on who-cares-about-the-world-name-then-anymore, then it'll give the game name a reason (Guild Wars). First time since 10,7 years. 🤣 But I'm against this beta for language reasons. As long as there's no working fix in that regard, there's no chance for this from me. It excludes people. Therefore I'm against it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 minute ago, Lucy.3728 said: It excludes people. People excludes people, not language. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy.3728 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 2 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: People excludes people, not language. Semantics. Whatever consequences a language barrier cause remain real however you name it. I name it: excluded by language barrier. If this game was in Chinese, I wouldn't play it... because of the language barrier. Edited January 19 by Lucy.3728 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeWolfe.2174 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said: So they will be even more piled up, and those who are outnumbered will be even more outnumbered. Right now it appears most of the old Mag are on Griffonfall and they are spawn camping EB, as usual. Why? Because Red (Skrittsburgh) it outnumbered and has the outnumbered buff to prove it. 1) If WvW was designed without tiers and the Worlds fought in one multiverse match, other players could go fight them. Instead, we have this kitten. 2) With open Worlds, players could go move to Worlds to fight them even with the tiered design. As it's been, we the players can't do anything because the dev's have tied our hands behind our backs because they've kept worlds closed. Now in this Beta, all control is given to the Dev's, which is worse! Again, the problem is actually not the players but, the dev's and their control mechanisms. 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mabi black.1824 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, ArgothCZ.6420 said: No one wants to be on the losing side because it sucks 1 hour ago, ArgothCZ.6420 said: incentivize the logical transfers You wrote them in the same answer, the question is how do you make them both work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 1 hour ago, Lucy.3728 said: Whatever consequences a language barrier cause remain real however you name it. The consequence seems to have been that WvW has had 2.65 million kills+deaths this week, which I do believe is a record (I think the last beta week had 1.8 million, but I have seen 2.3 million for one of the other weeks). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 24 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: The consequence seems to have been that WvW has had 2.65 million kills+deaths this week, which I do believe is a record (I think the last beta week had 1.8 million, but I have seen 2.3 million for one of the other weeks). How much is it normally in average? and k/d ratio or kills per team would be more important in terms of balance right? I heard it’s already way better than some „bad servers“. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmouse.2163 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 I don't personally mind the idea of bandwagon servers/teams, so long as there's more than one. Then the bandwagon teams can fight each other. A bad guy server makes for a villain to try and defeat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: How can a proper counter force arise to a "Mag2.0" when the Dev's are keeping everyone else locked down? It's a trap question. The answer is there would be no Mag 2.0 (or the probability of one is so low as to be almost non-existent) because Mag as a server is broken up into smaller slices - diluting them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, DeWolfe.2174 said: Yes, there needs to be more equality by design and the ceiling brought down a bit. Boons and Aura spamming have always been overpowered in the mode and it needs to be addressed. The amount of pulls in the mode needs to be nerfed too and Moa finally removed entirely. Do you not see any irony at all in you asking for "equality by design" with regards to combat while at the same time being against an "equality by design" team formation change? 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaba.5410 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 3 hours ago, ArgothCZ.6420 said: Similar balance could be achieved by letting people transfer and incentivising transfers to (and playing on) weaker/underpopulated servers Really? Then how come it hasn't occurred in the past 10 years? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 4 hours ago, ArgothCZ.6420 said: Similar balance could be achieved by letting people transfer and incentivising transfers to (and playing on) weaker/underpopulated servers. Currently, there is basically no bonus/penalty for playing while being outnumbered or against outnumbered (everyone cares about bags these days and they drop regardless). You know that's the whole reason we have 500gem cost to lower population servers in the first place, right? It didn't solve anything, it just encouraged easy bandwagons, because players can't help themselves, can't police themselves. You have your bandwagoners that moved for their own amusement and content. (Fite guilds) You have your bandwagoners that moved to stay with friends and guilds on another server that's full, so they had to keep joining the links. (Guild worshippers) You have your bandwagoners that moved simply to be with winners to have an easy ride for the rewards. (BG/Mag worshippers) None of these people cared about the link server, only that it was cheap enough for them to keep doing what they were doing. You could add in a bunch of other incentives/restrictions but that wouldn't really work unless they wanted to be invested in those servers they moved to, and given the three reasons I stated above that would be hard to do unless something happened to those main host servers, like the guild moved, a bandwagon left them, or the server had too many queues. Also a problem with outnumbered is always a case of the two strongest preying on the weakest, the mechanics in this game is terrible with snowball effects that basically makes no sense for a 3 way game mode, there is no motivation for two weakest vs the strongest, it's a bully simulator, you have to earn points to win and everyone will always take the path of least resistance, not that points matter these days, but the ingrained motivations are still the same. Edited January 19 by XenesisII.1540 3 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucy.3728 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, Dawdler.8521 said: The consequence seems to have been that WvW has had 2.65 million kills+deaths this week, which I do believe is a record (I think the last beta week had 1.8 million, but I have seen 2.3 million for one of the other weeks). And how many less kills when winterdays was? Edited January 19 by Lucy.3728 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 1 hour ago, CafPow.1542 said: How much is it normally in average? and k/d ratio or kills per team would be more important in terms of balance right? I heard it’s already way better than some „bad servers“. Kills + death is overall activity in WvW, not balance. In terms of balance everything have to to be judged. Just looking at either kdr or kills tells a warped story. I dont look at it frequently but I do know that the week after that 1.8 million (ie in normal WvW) had a significant drop, think it was 1.2 million or somewhere around there but I cant really remember so could be wrong. Edited January 19 by Dawdler.8521 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CafPow.1542 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 24 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Kills + death is overall activity in WvW, not balance. In terms of balance everything have to to be judged. Just looking at either kdr or kills tells a warped story. I dont look at it frequently but I do know that the week after that 1.8 million (ie in normal WvW) had a significant drop, think it was 1.2 million or somewhere around there but I cant really remember so could be wrong. Oh okay. Imo balance (e.g. k/d) would be more interesting for what i would describe as fun but of course the difference is important. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 (edited) 10 hours ago, Dawdler.8521 said: I hasnt been quite 8 of them, but I agree - Anet should have had the sorting fixed by now. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/World_Restructuring#Betas This is number 8, although I believe the first one was cut short if I remember right. We still have queue problems too, despite adding extended duration, and the two or three fixes they stated they did. 🤷♂️ Edited January 19 by XenesisII.1540 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dawdler.8521 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 36 minutes ago, XenesisII.1540 said: This is number 8, although I believe the first one was cut short if I remember right. Then it hasnt been quite 8 then 😛 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XenesisII.1540 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 5 minutes ago, Dawdler.8521 said: Then it hasnt been quite 8 then 😛 Pfft it was up for a couple hours it still counts. 😆 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ashturen.2561 Posted January 19 Share Posted January 19 On 1/17/2024 at 10:22 PM, Ragnarox.9601 said: I really hope you are smart and stop doing this and leave servers as IS, you should better come with something promising like new rewards, quality content and changes for wvw instead. As a long wvw player who enjoyed it untill now I really hope you learn from this mistake and don't ruin what is good in wvw. I really hope this don't go trough. I am sorry but this is bad. end of rant. I couldnt have said it any better . Anet should really delete that dumb idea of alliances.. I played every Beta so far and literally in every beta some friends and guildies endet up on the wrong server. So many guilds got split, or friends that play together - despite the fact that they choose the same alliance-guild up front.... It will never work Anet, just delete the idea and give us a 5th wvw -map , maybe even an underwater map or an Island that u have to conquer. and just make server transfer free of cost again ,as it was in the beginning of the game, and ur problems are solved . 1 2 1 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now