Let Loose should provide Quickness in WvW

[Mell.4873]

Forget sPvP since it would be op there, but we need it for WvW.

My thinking is that both Untamed and Druid make good frontline supports with both being able to brawl with some decent melee weapons plus Staff.
With the upcoming Mace It would be a waste to never use it on Untamed due to it providing no unique boons to a Zerg.

Edited January 20 by Mell.4873

[Beddo.1907]

I doubt it would allow Untamed into a squad, but I guess it's a step forward.

[BumboJumbo.1308]

What happened to hammer? Shouldn't untamed be more of a tanky melee dps rather than a support?

I fear that we'll have to wait years until untamed is useable in zergs like how it took years for druid to become a desired support spec.

 

[Beddo.1907]

4 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

What happened to hammer? Shouldn't untamed be more of a tanky melee dps rather than a support?

I fear that we'll have to wait years until untamed is useable in zergs like how it took years for druid to become a desired support spec.

 

We'd need to fix pets dying and either get a weapon or some utility skills that can work at range or some skills that are just too good to pass up.

Nature's Binding could be THE skill for zerg untamed, if they change it a bit.

Edited January 21 by Beddo.1907

[Mell.4873]

9 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

We'd need to fix pets dying and either get a weapon or some utility skills that can work at range or some skills that are just too good to pass up.

Nature's Binding could be THE skill for zerg untamed, if they change it a bit.

They sort of already fix this, the turtle especially right now can survive most zerg clashes. 

The real problem is the low damage they should atleast buff pets in WvW. 

Edited January 21 by Mell.4873

[Beddo.1907]

6 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

The real problem is the low damage they should atleast buff pets it in WvW. 

I can't think of a single way to make pet damage significant in a zerg. Not even talking about pet becoming too strong in roam as a side effect, just the target accuracy and possitioning prevents any damage on tanky and booned players.

Utility and damage taken split is all we will get from pets.

[Mell.4873]

6 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

I can't think of a single way to make pet damage significant in a zerg. Not even talking about pet becoming too strong in roam as a side effect, just the target accuracy and possitioning prevents any damage on tanky and booned players.

Utility and damage taken split is all we will get from pets.

Well in a Zergs pet become a Utility skill. Shield from a turtle or stealth from a smokescale. I don't think anyone expects them to do damage. 

Im more thinking of roaming, there isn't much point in running certain pets becouse the damage is so low. It would be cool to "Sic Em" a drake to kill someone like it was in sPvP but in WvW. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Nothing in a zerg would matter outside Druid support.  If it's just a big group of players---it's a cloud.  They don't balance around clouds or smaller scale battles, so doubt they would add quickness to untamed when practically all of the ranger specs are still good at roaming.  

[BumboJumbo.1308]

On 1/21/2024 at 8:44 PM, Beddo.1907 said:

We'd need to fix pets dying and either get a weapon or some utility skills that can work at range or some skills that are just too good to pass up.

Nature's Binding could be THE skill for zerg untamed, if they change it a bit.

What if they got rid of restorative strikes and replaced it with a new trait where every time you use a hard cc ability it removes 1 boon from the target and applies immob. Would that make untamed powerful enough to people wanting them in zerg groups? 

[Beddo.1907]

53 minutes ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

What if they got rid of restorative strikes and replaced it with a new trait where every time you use a hard cc ability it removes 1 boon from the target and applies immob. Would that make untamed powerful enough to people wanting them in zerg groups? 

1 boon removal in melee range ain't much and we already have multiple aoe root skills, so doubt it.

[Mell.4873]

2 hours ago, BumboJumbo.1308 said:

What if they got rid of restorative strikes and replaced it with a new trait where every time you use a hard cc ability it removes 1 boon from the target and applies immob. Would that make untamed powerful enough to people wanting them in zerg groups? 

Yeah that is probably not good enough, honestly leave Restorative Strikes alone and replace Ferocious Symbiosis with another boon ripe. Maybe a boon corruption and let's keep your effect but 2 boons removed (maybe no immob).

So it would be corrupt 2 boons when CCing a target. 

While we are at it put Let Loose at the bottom and this new skill at the top synergiing with top traitline being a cc notif

[Oahkahmewolf.6210]

I just want my fury back that they took away.

[frazazel.7501]

Untamed already has access to boonstrip with unleashed pet f2, with unleashed ambush if you trait for it (also turns previous strip into corruption), with unleashed hammer 3, and with greatsword unleashed ambush. I feel like it's something that is part of Untamed's identity, in a way that it really wasn't for base rangers, but not as much as it is part of Spellbreaker's identity. I like the idea of having to build for better boonstrip, instead of having a lot of it in the base kit.

I think replacing Restorative Strikes with something like (boonstrip + AoE damage) with ranger unleashed or (condition transfer + AoE barrier) with pet unleashed on CC (3s internal cooldown) would be great. It could still be the best survivability grandmaster trait, but have some offensive power when you don't need the barriers, while bringing additional boonstrip utility.

[Lazze.9870]

On 1/21/2024 at 10:44 AM, Beddo.1907 said:

We'd need to fix pets dying and either get a weapon or some utility skills that can work at range or some skills that are just too good to pass up.

Nature's Binding could be THE skill for zerg untamed, if they change it a bit.

Pets dying is almost irrelevant. Yeah, you lose a bit of your kit, but it's not necessary to make Untamed work in a zerg,

The easiest way to make Untamed good in a zerg meta is if they bump up the damage numbers on unleashed hammer skills  and maybe bump GS back up slightly as well (+ a little frost trap buff). You stay unleashed 100 % of the time and use Let Loose to refresh the ambush skills on every weapon swap. Frost trap, Signet of Hunt and Wild and entangle or the elite cantrip on your bar. Protect me if you need a stunbreak.

Bonus if skills like Nature's Binding were a little less crap, but it's not needed.

Wether you're on Untamed or Soulbeast, the most damage potential you have in a coordinated group is a full melee build. Other specs do that better atm, which is why some buffs are warranted (especially on hammer, that weapon has near zero utility anyway).

For clouding outside of groups, untamed is already a potential monster on quickdraw double longbow because it adds multishot to the mix.

Edited January 28 by Lazze.9870

[Gotejjeken.1267]

Was endless whining about Ancient Seeds proc'ing off hard CC and giving bleed/immob...

You really think they are going to put boon rip / corrupt on hard CC? 

[Beddo.1907]

5 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Was endless whining about Ancient Seeds proc'ing off hard CC and giving bleed/immob...

You really think they are going to put boon rip / corrupt on hard CC? 

Depends on how it works with stab. If stab stops it, then it probably won't be even used. If stab stops cc, but not strip then it shouldn't be nearly as annoying as old seeds, while having some niche use. If strip happens before cc and removes stab, then it won't exist, because I doubt anet wants to open that can of worms.

[Soilder.3607]

On 1/25/2024 at 6:02 AM, Lazze.9870 said:

Pets dying is almost irrelevant. Yeah, you lose a bit of your kit, but it's not necessary to make Untamed work in a zerg,

The easiest way to make Untamed good in a zerg meta is if they bump up the damage numbers on unleashed hammer skills  and maybe bump GS back up slightly as well (+ a little frost trap buff). You stay unleashed 100 % of the time and use Let Loose to refresh the ambush skills on every weapon swap. Frost trap, Signet of Hunt and Wild and entangle or the elite cantrip on your bar. Protect me if you need a stunbreak.

Bonus if skills like Nature's Binding were a little less crap, but it's not needed.

Wether you're on Untamed or Soulbeast, the most damage potential you have in a coordinated group is a full melee build. Other specs do that better atm, which is why some buffs are warranted (especially on hammer, that weapon has near zero utility anyway).

For clouding outside of groups, untamed is already a potential monster on quickdraw double longbow because it adds multishot to the mix.

Lazze is correct in his assessment of Untamed's performance in organized WvW squads. It is a melee locked spec and GS/Hammer is the only way to play it (in an organized squad). He is correct that its damage needs to be improved. There is also room to improve its boonstripping. Untamed is a bit underrated right now; most guilds think its F tier but its actually C tier and can put up comparable damage and strips to a Reaper with the right group composition.

 

My own gameplay video demonstrates a basic way to play Untamed in squads. There are open comms so you all can hear how squads are commanded. The important numbers to watch on the charts are damage, downs contribution, strips, and downs out.

 

Buffing hammer damage by 10-15% and adding an additional boonripping skill (say they reworked exploding spores to be similar to break enchantments) would put it in a much better spot.

 

Quote

Edit: as always you can be spitting facts on these forums and people will push the confused button

This is also true. 

[Arheundel.6451]

On 1/20/2024 at 8:43 PM, Mell.4873 said:

Forget sPvP since it would be op there, but we need it for WvW.

My thinking is that both Untamed and Druid make good frontline supports with both being able to brawl with some decent melee weapons plus Staff.
With the upcoming Mace It would be a waste to never use it on Untamed due to it providing no unique boons to a Zerg.

No...just no...bloated traits is the quickest way to get yourself overnerfed around the same trait. If you want quickness on Untamed, then use any of the other 2 GM, as it stands you have no reason to use them, given the minimal benefit they provide

[Gotejjeken.1267]

5 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

 

I know somewhat (or really all) unrelated here--but the first 15 seconds of this I watch sounds like an auction 😂.

7 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

Depends on how it works with stab. If stab stops it, then it probably won't be even used. If stab stops cc, but not strip then it shouldn't be nearly as annoying as old seeds, while having some niche use. If strip happens before cc and removes stab, then it won't exist, because I doubt anet wants to open that can of worms.

Well yeah; the problem with seeds was as we know, the hard cc removing stab then the immob happening forcing a cleanse.  So either the boonrip happens before the CC negating stab or it happens after, but it's already removed stab (as hard CC's remove stab stack)--so you are now ripping something like prot too.  Of course, that's assuming only 1 stack of stab, but sometimes that's all some classes / configurations get.  

I see that getting problematic with shortbow builds for the same reasons seeds did--but not just shortbow, as WH also now has a CC (remember for years when it didn't daze?!), as does GS, as does LB....hammer has a ton...not sure about maces (I forgot that beta already lol), but still.

Edited January 27 by Gotejjeken.1267

[Lazze.9870]

20 hours ago, Soilder.3607 said:

There is also room to improve its boonstripping.

Boon stripping could for sure be improved as well. It feels a little bit tacked on atm, not sure if that was Anet's intention or if it was supposed to be a more integral part of the spec at some point. Rending Vines isn't exactly a prime wvw skill with how it is tied to the pet + its small radius. You're very dependent on the GS ambush right now. Exploding Spores is a good candidate to add some boon strip.

Sword/Axe is also an alternative to hammer, but Relentless Whirl probably just about make the hammer worth it. Depends on how well you can land axe 5s.

Soulbeast with Untamed Ambush skills would have been juicy. Sad thing is, that's about the level it needs to be at to compete with the dps meta builds.

Edited January 28 by Lazze.9870

[Mell.4873]

I'm sure I have already mentioned this but just replace Ferocious Symbiosis with another boon strip, maybe swap some of the grandmasters around. Let Loose for example is should be at the bottom since it's more related to Ambushs than CC. 

Anyway the new grandmaster should be something like for ever CC inflicted corrupt 2 boons, or steal them. Something like that. 

That would complete the kits, along with Quickness in WvW. 

[DarkFlopy.8197]

13 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I'm sure I have already mentioned this but just replace Ferocious Symbiosis with another boon strip, maybe swap some of the grandmasters around. Let Loose for example is should be at the bottom since it's more related to Ambushs than CC. 

Anyway the new grandmaster should be something like for ever CC inflicted corrupt 2 boons, or steal them. Something like that. 

That would complete the kits, along with Quickness in WvW. 

I doubt this will happen, they won't replace Ferocious Symbiosis because that's the only increase damage trait untamed has to help try keep it "relevant" in PvE content, I know you mean to WvW but anet never totally changed the full functionality of a trait between game modes, especially from giving damage to a totally different thing, normally it's just from boons x/y/z to a/b/c or something like that.

Edited January 29 by DarkFlopy.8197

[Beddo.1907]

19 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Ferocious Symbiosis

This one's fine, yeet the Restorative Strikes.

[Mell.4873]

4 hours ago, Beddo.1907 said:

This one's fine, yeet the Restorative Strikes.

Maybe you are right, I do like it but honestly you get more healing from Let Loose.

[DarkFlopy.8197]

4 minutes ago, Mell.4873 said:

Maybe you are right, I do like it but honestly you get more healing from Let Loose.

I really want to use Restorative Strikes but the usefulness of more frequent ambush skills and might stacks is giving much more value than what Restorative Strikes offer.
Also I really hate that Restorative Strikes and Cleansing Unleash have no icon notification when they are ready like Unleashed Power, It just shows how unbaked the elite specialization is.