Astralporing.1957 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 4 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said: So the issue were the players who tried blindly rushing into cm without even understanding/completing normal mode and not that there is a task in a vault. And you think those two are not connected? I mean, people in this very thread claim this is exactly what the task was supposed to accomplish - pull in there people that are completely new to the content. With very predictable results. 3 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, Astralporing.1957 said: And you think those two are not connected? I mean, people in this very thread claim this is exactly what the task was supposed to accomplish - pull in there people that are completely new to the content. With very predictable results. Yea maybe try normal first or watch mukluks get to the point atleast? 11 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 8 hours ago, Linken.6345 said: Yea maybe try normal first or watch mukluks get to the point atleast? People doing both would have ended in CM on their own at some point anyway. The people pulled specifically with the Vault "advertisement" are not from that group. That's one of the issues with methods like that - they pull into that content people well before they are ready. 2 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 14 minutes ago, Astralporing.1957 said: People doing both would have ended in CM on their own at some point anyway. The people pulled specifically with the Vault "advertisement" are not from that group. That's one of the issues with methods like that - they pull into that content people well before they are ready. The bar isn't set too high for when people are ready for CO CM, unless of course you consider the ability to read chat for a few seconds and memorize 3 lines and grabbing a DPS build from somewhere anywhere near difficult. 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astralporing.1957 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 9 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said: The bar isn't set too high for when people are ready for CO CM, unless of course you consider the ability to read chat for a few seconds and memorize 3 lines and grabbing a DPS build from somewhere anywhere near difficult. Look at the overall player community, and decide for yourself how common those two abilities are. 1 3 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuks.8241 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 2 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: People doing both would have ended in CM on their own at some point anyway. The people pulled specifically with the Vault "advertisement" are not from that group. That's one of the issues with methods like that - they pull into that content people well before they are ready. You're making it sound like an application for a highly specialised NASA job that requires 8 years of education and 1 year on the job training. It's just a strike with a few additional mechanics to normal and a mild DPS requirement. The WV spawned quite a few training/progression runs from what I saw and also partook in some. And many were successful and some probably not. And I saw random people from LFG doing progression and succeeding at the end. The best part of instance content in my opinion. And maybe some realised it's too much for them and some learned the fight well and got some KP and some even realised that there is nothing scary about this and similar encounters. All I see is benefits for players and game mode. Instanced content in this game is not hard. But you and your group have to be willing to progress, which means also to fail a few times. And there lies the problem that groups on LFG usually don't expect progression but a clean clear. And opportunities like this give chance to players to actually progress without actually having a specialized guild or a static. Also, just FYI we managed to clear the fight (with 30 sec to spare :)) in a LFG group titled "CO CM for newbies" and it took us 3 tries and 0 bad blood. 8 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 The true CO CM requirements. -Can you read? -Can you communicate with others in a normal manner? -Can you do 15k dps? - Do you have eyes and the monitor on? Yes? Welcome aboard! 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 (edited) 14 hours ago, Astralporing.1957 said: And you think those two are not connected? I mean, people in this very thread claim this is exactly what the task was supposed to accomplish - pull in there people that are completely new to the content. With very predictable results. Is this a heavily time limited offer? People literally need to do it this week without ever trying normal mode or it's gone? 🤔 And hell, even if it was just a week -which it isn't even close to- it's still not hard to, you know, logically go through normal mode first. What is this weirdly twisted "there's a higher reward for higher difficulty so I MUST! go directly through that higher difficulty without ever touching the base one first" logic you're trying to get into here? Lets also not forget about the last sentence of my post you (completely accidentally?) cut out: 18 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said: I experienced people running away from the green arrow like headless chickens in co cm before that task was added. Players like that existed before the objective was added. Yes, the issue in this case is still individual player's approach, not the task. Edited January 29 by Sobx.1758 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 cm was a fun experience. kp masters gate keep it sadly but i made my own group and succeeded. side note later on tried to join ant group after i had the cm done and was kicked because not enough kp. i feel a little ridiculous how ppl still don't let people join who with proof finished a cm because they don't have kp from raids. anyhow hope we get more people do non kp runs since its not that hard and i myself will do more non kp runs for other people. hope that can ease this elitist cm community. 1 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biziut.3594 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: cm was a fun experience. kp masters gate keep it sadly but i made my own group and succeeded. side note later on tried to join ant group after i had the cm done and was kicked because not enough kp. i feel a little ridiculous how ppl still don't let people join who with proof finished a cm because they don't have kp from raids. anyhow hope we get more people do non kp runs since its not that hard and i myself will do more non kp runs for other people. hope that can ease this elitist cm community. So You were perfectly capable to get it done without kp, but still have a beef going against those who ask for kp? Why? What is Your problem with them? I guess Your run wasn't successful without at least one fail, all of this kp asking peoples were in Your place as well. Failed in 0 kp runs to finally get 1 kp, failed some kp runs to get more. Now they run more kp runs to get a kill on the first time, and avoid wasting time on fails or risk peoples leaving due to fails or lack of time. Whats Your problem with this, and how it is gating peoples from content if You were perfectly able to do it yourself without joining kp run? 7 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jozze.9532 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: cm was a fun experience. kp masters gate keep it sadly but i made my own group and succeeded. side note later on tried to join ant group after i had the cm done and was kicked because not enough kp. i feel a little ridiculous how ppl still don't let people join who with proof finished a cm because they don't have kp from raids. anyhow hope we get more people do non kp runs since its not that hard and i myself will do more non kp runs for other people. hope that can ease this elitist cm community. The KP they are asking for is not for raids. It's for the strike CM. It has it's own coffer. People collect the information they got it with killproof.me. People "gatekeep" their own groups, because they want to play with people who went through what you already went through. They already have experience with the strike and then don't want to go into progression mode again, because other people kitten up mechanics. They want to play with players on their own level, so the run goes smooth. What if you had already spend weeks playing this strike CM and you had like 2 weeks of that wiping in random groups. What would you like for your group? Finishing the strike quickly without wipes or wiping again over and over? You will probably want to do the thing that costs you less time. And that is more likely with people who have the same experience level as you. No one should force them, to potentially carry other players. You can still open those groups if you have the time for it. But not everybody does have the time. The issue is that a lot of players who do not have KP, are not opening groups themselfes. There are enough veterans out there who will still open groups for people without requirements. There is also communities out there offering those runs. They want an unproblematic run. To call this gatekeeping, while the game has thousands of other players that just don't open groups even though they could at any time, is rediculous. 7 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 4 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: cm was a fun experience. kp masters gate keep it sadly but i made my own group and succeeded. side note later on tried to join ant group after i had the cm done and was kicked because not enough kp. i feel a little ridiculous how ppl still don't let people join who with proof finished a cm because they don't have kp from raids. anyhow hope we get more people do non kp runs since its not that hard and i myself will do more non kp runs for other people. hope that can ease this elitist cm community. Unless specified as LI any KP asked for Strike CMs is the Strike CM Coffer. We know that in GW2 "Gatekeeping" lost its meaning and is now just a buzzword used for requirements people don't like. As said already, being told that to join a person's group you need to have experience is not gatekeeping considering there are no KP Runs for CO CM and, as you said you made your own group. In the same sentence you complain about people gatekeeping others with KP you also prove that... people don't gatekeep with KP since you could just make your own group. 10 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 8 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: cm was a fun experience. kp masters gate keep it sadly but i made my own group and succeeded. side note later on tried to join ant group after i had the cm done and was kicked because not enough kp. i feel a little ridiculous how ppl still don't let people join who with proof finished a cm because they don't have kp from raids. anyhow hope we get more people do non kp runs since its not that hard and i myself will do more non kp runs for other people. hope that can ease this elitist cm community. Good job on succeeding. You are now at the point where many others were months ago (or in case of specific raids, years ago). Now unless you decide to run this content for ever, weekly, willing to keep training new players over and over and over (which is exactly what trainers and training guild/discords do btw. Which is exactly why they get recommended), you will be in the same boat as the majority of players: quitting the content or enforcing KP down the road (or joining a static). Unless ofcourse you do decide to stick around as a trainer for new players for a long time, in which case: I salute you. Keep up the "good" fight. If you do dare stop though or stop training inexperienced players, remeber: you will become exactly the type of player you are complaining about now. You then get to reap the dissatisfaction of inexperienced players. See how this works out? It's a lose-lose for any veteran player, even those of use who trained others in the past. Some of this content is multiple years old by now and it's the same process every single time. Good Luck! Edited January 30 by Cyninja.2954 10 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 (edited) 10 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: cm was a fun experience. kp masters gate keep it sadly but i made my own group and succeeded. side note later on tried to join ant group after i had the cm done and was kicked because not enough kp. i feel a little ridiculous how ppl still don't let people join who with proof finished a cm because they don't have kp from raids. anyhow hope we get more people do non kp runs since its not that hard and i myself will do more non kp runs for other people. hope that can ease this elitist cm community. "This content is so gatekept that I simply made my own group in public lfg and completed it" is such a weird attempt at "elitism!" complaint. You literally did what people advise to do whenever someone claims anything there is somehow "gatekept" (...or "impossible to pug" or "lfg being nonexistent"), not sure how despite that you're still trying to complain about it in the same post. Edited January 30 by Sobx.1758 8 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 14 hours ago, Sobx.1758 said: "This content is so gatekept that I simply made my own group in public lfg and completed it" is such a weird attempt at "elitism!" complaint. You literally did what people advise to do whenever someone claims anything there is somehow "gatekept" (...or "impossible to pug" or "lfg being nonexistent"), not sure how despite that you're still trying to complain about it in the same post. u seems not to read all i said but i know,thats the standard reply from raiders by now. ironically u guys didn't made kp required on ur first runs but u do it for everyone else 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 19 hours ago, Biziut.3594 said: So You were perfectly capable to get it done without kp, but still have a beef going against those who ask for kp? Why? What is Your problem with them? I guess Your run wasn't successful without at least one fail, all of this kp asking peoples were in Your place as well. Failed in 0 kp runs to finally get 1 kp, failed some kp runs to get more. Now they run more kp runs to get a kill on the first time, and avoid wasting time on fails or risk peoples leaving due to fails or lack of time. Whats Your problem with this, and how it is gating peoples from content if You were perfectly able to do it yourself without joining kp run? i already said ppl who even can proof they finished a certain cm still get kicked by a made up cm requirement, which has,nothing to do with the cm. that's like i do a kp only run for rift farming. its just unnecessary 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balsa.3951 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 19 hours ago, jozze.9532 said: The KP they are asking for is not for raids. It's for the strike CM. It has it's own coffer. People collect the information they got it with killproof.me. People "gatekeep" their own groups, because they want to play with people who went through what you already went through. They already have experience with the strike and then don't want to go into progression mode again, because other people kitten up mechanics. They want to play with players on their own level, so the run goes smooth. What if you had already spend weeks playing this strike CM and you had like 2 weeks of that wiping in random groups. What would you like for your group? Finishing the strike quickly without wipes or wiping again over and over? You will probably want to do the thing that costs you less time. And that is more likely with people who have the same experience level as you. No one should force them, to potentially carry other players. You can still open those groups if you have the time for it. But not everybody does have the time. The issue is that a lot of players who do not have KP, are not opening groups themselfes. There are enough veterans out there who will still open groups for people without requirements. There is also communities out there offering those runs. They want an unproblematic run. To call this gatekeeping, while the game has thousands of other players that just don't open groups even though they could at any time, is rediculous. there is no kp in co cm 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Linken.6345 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 11 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said: u seems not to read all i said but i know,thats the standard reply from raiders by now. ironically u guys didn't made kp required on ur first runs but u do it for everyone else How would this be possible you cant have kp before you kill it so yea kinda strange you want them to do the impossible. This dont make it impossible for new people after to also do their first no kp run tho 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Entara.3075 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Wow! I amazed that this thread has gotten to 5 pages and people are still arguing about it so I will add my two cents. By this point most active players have gotten everything of value out of the WV and are just buying gold. Than means that the 250AA translates to a whopping 8.3G. I joined a pug group on LFG where the most experienced of us had done it once and we cleared it. It took about 1.5 hours, many attempts and was challenging in a fun way but definitely not worth the time for just 8.3G. I personally hope that ANET offers more challenges like this for all game modes as it added another activity for people to engage in. In all honesty I probably would never have been prompted to do it without the optional task in the WV special tab. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyninja.2954 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Balsa.3951 said: there is no kp in co cm Yes there is: the CM reward chest counts as KP. If you decide to open it, using killproof.me and updating your account info will increase the amount of CM chests acquired. Keeping a couple of chests unopened is usually sufficient for players that do not wish to create a kp.me account. You are once again misinformed. Edited January 31 by Cyninja.2954 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Biziut.3594 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: i already said ppl who even can proof they finished a certain cm still get kicked by a made up cm requirement, which has,nothing to do with the cm. that's like i do a kp only run for rift farming. its just unnecessary Proof how? If You have a single coffer from cm kill You could just buy it, on my first kill one guy died at 80% by attack from nm green arrow, he have a kp now thanks to us and yet don't have idea how even nm mech works. Thats why peoples usually ask for more than one kp. But it doesn't mean that there are not groups that look for exactly one kp too. And peoples ask for more kp for the sole reason of wanting a smooth run. Becouse they already failed their fair share of times, gained expirience and now they don't want to waste time by staying x time in a single instance more than neccessery. Who are You to tell me that I must waste my time failing a boss over and over with not requesting kp, to get peoples I do not know a kill, instead of getting a fast kill with exp kp peoples like me and than proceed to do another content/having fun with my friends? Not even mentioning the peoples who really don't have time coz irl reasons and just want to get a kill as fast as possible. So again. What is wrong with that in Your opinion? What gives You a right to tell this peoples they "have to" spend their free time on You and newbies? Especially that You just proved with Your kill thay they are by all means not neccessery for new peoples to score a kill. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanAlcedo.3281 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Page 6! Here we gooooo! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sobx.1758 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 (edited) 6 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: u seems not to read all i said but i know,thats the standard reply from raiders by now. ironically u guys didn't made kp required on ur first runs but u do it for everyone else You addressed nothing I wrote. And I'm still not playing exclusively in kp groups, so not sure what you're on about here. You don't like kp groups, so you made a no-kp group (literally how you've been told to), people joined and played the content. What's your issue exactly? 6 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: i already said ppl who even can proof they finished a certain cm still get kicked by a made up cm requirement, which has,nothing to do with the cm. Like what? 6 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: there is no kp in co cm You clearly have no idea what you're talking about. And to make it worse, the post you quoted there already explained it to you right at the start of it. 🤦♂️ Edited January 31 by Sobx.1758 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IAmNotMatthew.1058 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 7 hours ago, Balsa.3951 said: ironically u guys didn't made kp required on ur first runs but u do it for everyone else Considering the only Strike KP I have kept is a single Ankka CM Coffer I got on day 1 - as proof of doing it due to bugged achievement - I find it really hard to require KP for CO CM runs, since telling people that I've done CO CM 6 times so far is worth as much as anyone saying it without any proof. If you want to complain about others asking for KP first make sure it's people who actually ask for KP for their runs and not just roll with the Experienced tab saying "experienced". 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alethia.3597 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I know we may sound like broken records when saying something, but people attempting this the first time shouldn't be scared to put up their own LFG saying that it is there first time or they need help/commander etc. There have been a bunch of veterans taking the time to join the groups when they can and giving pointers. You may not be as likely to get a kill as in a specific training run, but a lot of the community jumping in here needs the experience of several pulls (and sometime getting appropriate gear and builds) before they get over the line. I have never listed a KP group (I have used exp when short on time), but I absolutely support the right for people to do so. It is a matter of respecting others time when they usually just do a single clean pull and they are done for the week. For some people that is the only 20 minutes this week they had to to list, fill and do the strike. If a bunch of people join that have no idea what they are doing it will likely not happen Everyone loses and the veterans get a little more salty about LFG unknown people. Almost all of my game time this week has been spent in training runs and a bunch of guildies, friends and strike regulars have been kind enough to help out here and there. It is a fact we are bringing experienced challenge mode DPS players into some of these runs to pull the average DPS up high enough to get inside the timer. At the end of the first week, in 14 training kills I have an estimate of taking 98 people through their first or second kill. For some people this CO CM has been the first strike in any mode they have done and it is really down to them being willing to take time to learn jumping in the deep end skipping normal mode. From runs where I am actively teaching people, not just jumping into a random group to help, average time to a kill (excluding instructions and pointers between attempts) has gone up slightly since the start of the week as the type of player changes, is now 57 minutes. Average number of pulls to a clear, including all of the deaths to first green arrow, is now at 9. If you are new to the content, that might give you a bit of an idea what to expect compared to veterans who will single pull in around 8-9 minutes. People are still out there listing training groups or looking out for them when have time to help. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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