There's nothing to see in this thread. Move along. Shoo.

[Robert Calais.8425]

No, I'm serious. Unless you want to repeat on page five what's already been said on page one or are just here to ninja-react to posts because you have no hands to type with.
And if you're simply a fan of thread necromancy, then go ahead.

 

Spoiler

So I just got my very first legendary rune and I was about to apply it to the ascended breathers of about 60 characters wearing Marauder gear with Superior Runes of the Scholar.

And then I learned that applying a legendary rune to non-legendary gear will destroy any previously-equipped rune.

How is this acceptable? Applying a normal rune or sigil to legendary gear doesn't destroy any previously-equipped rune or sigil, so why would it be the other way around?
I'm curious about what other players think regarding this situation and I would like to hear from an ArenaNet employee aswell.

ArenaNet, please consider making it so that applying a legendary rune or sigil to non-legendary gear gives any previously-equipped rune or sigil back to the player instead of destroying it.
At the time of writing this, I would be losing over 300 gold by nothing more than equipping this legendary rune I have just spent a fortune on and that is unacceptable.

Edit: I guess I'll just never use the rune. That legendary relic better be worth those 500 gold then. Which I'm pretty sure it won't, because for 500 gold, you could get an awful lot more relics than 73 characters could possibly equip.

 

Edited January 30 by Robert Calais.8425

[Cyninja.2954]

The utility of being able to remove the upgrade without destroying it is tied to the legendary item. 

In case of the armor/weapons, you can freely swap upgrades on that 1 slot where you have a legendary (not to mention in case of armor you even need 3 pieces of armor to cover all weight classes).

In case of runes/sigils, you can swap out the rune/sigil, no matter on which slot you used it (aka you can replace the legendary rune without destroying it with any rune, thus freeing up the legendary rune to be used in a different slot).

Making the change the way you describe it, would turn 1 legendary rune into an infinite rune upgrade extractor. That's almost the entire benefit of having 6-7 runes for the cost of 1.

Edited January 28 by Cyninja.2954

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i'm going to be honest, there's alot to unpack in this post; like why you have 60 characters with marauder's gear and scholar's rune.

[Robert Calais.8425]

6 minutes ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

The utility of being able to remove the upgrade without destroying it is tied to the legendary item. ¹

In case of the armor/weapons, you can freely swap upgrades on that 1 slot where you have a legendary (not to mention in case of armor you even need 3 pieces of armor to cover all weight classes). ²

In case of runes/sigils, you can swap out the rune/sigil, no matter on which slot you used it (aka you can replace the legendary rune without destroying it with any rune, thus freeing up the legendary rune to be used in a different slot). ³

Making the change the way you describe it, would turn 1 legendary rune into an infinite rune upgrade extractor. That's almost the entire benefit of having 6-7 runes for the cost of 1. ⁴

¹ Last time I checked, said legendary rune was legendary.
² That's weapons. You cannot apply runes to weapons.
³ How is this relevant?
⁴ To be honest, I didn't even think of it this way. I just don't think it's nice to destroy over 300 gold worth of runes.

[Robert Calais.8425]

6 minutes ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i'm going to be honest, there's alot to unpack in this post; like why you have 60 characters with marauder's gear and scholar's rune.

I have 87 characters, but they didn't fit on the same account.
Is that really the thing you deemed the most important in my post?

Edited January 28 by Robert Calais.8425

[Cyninja.2954]

2 minutes ago, Robert Calais.8425 said:

¹ Last time I checked, said legendary rune was legendary.
² That's weapons. You cannot apply runes to weapons.
³ How is this relevant?
⁴ To be honest, I didn't even think of it this way. I just don't think it's nice to destroy over 300 gold worth of runes.

No, 2 was not weapons. It's literally armor. Yesy the same rules apply to weapons and sigils though

3. Because you are ignoring the freedom of using a rune on any slot you want versus dedicated armor slots.

4. Yes, I get why you want this to work differently. I'm saying the way the system works now is consistent with all legendary gear

[Robert Calais.8425]

Just now, Cyninja.2954 said:

No, 2 was not weapons. It's literally armor. Yesy the same rules apply to weapons and sigils though

3. Because you are ignoring the freedom of using a rune on any slot you want versus dedicated armor slots.

4. Yes, I get why you want this to work differently. I'm saying the way the system works now is consistent with all legendary gear

No, it IS weapons, because weapons are the kind of legendary equipment I own. "on that 1 slot where you have a legendary"
Excuse me, I'm ignoring what? The situation is that no matter where I'd put the damned thing, I'd lose one Scholar rune per character.

[Cyninja.2954]

1 minute ago, Robert Calais.8425 said:

No, it IS weapons, because weapons are the kind of legendary equipment I own. "on that 1 slot where you have a legendary"
Excuse me, I'm ignoring what? The situation is that no matter where I'd put the damned thing, I'd lose one Scholar rune per character.

I am unsure how:

Quote

In case of the armor/weapons, you can freely swap upgrades on that 1 slot where you have a legendary (not to mention in case of armor you even need 3 pieces of armor to cover all weight classes).

relates to weapons. Are you not reading something correctly? This applies to both weapons and sigils as well as runes and armor.

[Robert Calais.8425]

Just now, Cyninja.2954 said:

I am unsure how:

relates to weapons. Are you not reading something correctly? This applies to both weapons and sigils as well as runes and armor.

Quoted literally right next to my response.

[Cyninja.2954]

6 minutes ago, Robert Calais.8425 said:

Quoted literally right next to my response.

? You can apply runes to armor no? Legendary armor is tied to 1 specific slot. Legendary armor requires 3 pieces of armor to cover1 slot for all weight classes to have the same benefit on that 1 slot as a legendary rune would have. Does this make it more clear?

Edited January 28 by Cyninja.2954

[Linken.6345]

If your aqua breather was legendary it would work like you want it to work OP.

Your legendary rune dont turn everything else into legendary you trying to put it into.

[Sarrs.4831]

>87 characters
>has the gold to give them all scholar's runes
>upset enough that he can't remove them outside of an Extraction Tool to post on the forums

the firstest of first world problems

[Robert Calais.8425]

5 minutes ago, Sarrs.4831 said:

>87 characters
>has the gold to give them all scholar's runes
>upset enough that he can't remove them outside of an Extraction Tool to post on the forums

the firstest of first world problems

First off, how many characters someone has shouldn't be your concern.
I have 78 gold and I owe someone 220. Those characters developed over the entirety of this game's runtime. Most of these runes cost me twice as much as they go for nowadays. (In other words, 300 gold is a gross understatement.)

I said I'm interested in opinions, not insults.

Edited January 28 by Robert Calais.8425

[Cuks.8241]

Can't you use upgrade extractor? I think we have them now in WV for equivalent of ~ 1g. Should be worth it for many expensive runes. Maybe I am missing something, it's been a long time since I used it (have lege armour).

1 hour ago, Robert Calais.8425 said:

Edit: I guess I'll just never use the rune. That legendary relic better be worth those 500 gold then. Which I'm pretty sure it won't, because for 500 gold, you could get an awful lot more relics than 73 characters could possibly equip.

Well that's often if not always the case with legendary equipment. You will most likely not save gold with it. Especially if you are not changing stats often. 

edit: Oh and if we are talking about exotic equipment (and not ascended) and you have some black lion kits. Just use those and replace the equipment. Stat selectable exotics are trivial to get. You'll recover the rune and you'll probably even make some g because you'll get ectos out of them.

Edited January 28 by Cuks.8241

[Sarrs.4831]

27 minutes ago, Robert Calais.8425 said:

First off, how many characters someone has shouldn't be your concern.
I have 78 gold and I owe someone 220. Those characters developed over the entirety of this game's runtime. Most of these runes cost me twice as much as they go for nowadays. (In other words, 300 gold is a gross understatement.)

I said I'm interested in opinions, not insults.

Okay my opinion is that you should invest in some upgrade extractors.

And also that it's really weird that someone with 87 character slots is upset about 300g. Like you've spent tens of thousands of gems on character slots dude. 300g is chump change.

Like I know I'm a jerk but sometimes you see the facts laid out and you just think "how did this person not know better".

Edited January 28 by Sarrs.4831

[Robert Calais.8425]

30 minutes ago, Cuks.8241 said:

edit: Oh and if we are talking about exotic equipment (and not ascended) and you have some black lion kits. Just use those and replace the equipment. Stat selectable exotics are trivial to get. You'll recover the rune and you'll probably even make some g because you'll get ectos out of them.

Exclusively ascended.
Edit: I've got one Black Lion salvage kit. It has six uses. Because all my characters used to have different stat combinations which all made combat a living hell for me (Berserker's, for example) before I eventually got them all Marauder gear and I was in a similar situation years ago, where I had a ton of characters stuffed with Scholar runes on equipment I wanted gone. And ArenaNet eventually removed Black Lion salvage kits from the login rewards and Black Lion chests, so I would have to get them through the gem store and that's just not going to happen.

Edited January 28 by Robert Calais.8425

[firedragon.8953]

1 hour ago, Cyninja.2954 said:

Making the change the way you describe it, would turn 1 legendary rune into an infinite rune upgrade extractor. That's almost the entire benefit of having 6-7 runes for the cost of 1.

This right here.

Your rebreather is not legendary and neither are the runes you had in them. This is how non-legendary + non-legendary combinations have always worked (sans extractors).  The legendary rune was not slotted in your non-legendary gear (it was a non-legendary rune), and thus you destroy the rune (or the gear depending on choice of salvage). You need legendary + legendary or non-legendary + legendary combinations to prevent destruction. You clearly had a non-legendary + non-legendary combination.

Think of it like this, either legendary armor or legendary runes have a certain property that makes the "magically malleable." You can't insert your magically malleable rune without extracting the non-malleable rune from the non-malleable armor, which will destroy it unless you got a very fine set of tools (upgrade extractor, etc.)

Edited January 28 by firedragon.8953

[Robert Calais.8425]

8 minutes ago, Sarrs.4831 said:

And also that it's really weird that someone with 87 character slots is upset about 300g. Like you've spent tens of thousands of gems on character slots dude. 300g is chump change.

I don't have 87 character slots, I have 87 characters. I still have enough space for more than 20 additional characters, but there's only so much you can do within 16 hours, especially when you're forced to stay logged in on chest farmers for over a minute because you cannot manually arrange and lock your character selection. Something I've been begging for for years and since given up on.

I'm upset about 300 gold because 300 gold is a lot, especially when your only source of income is flax. Gets boring fast, profit is negligible and constant farming eventually makes you have enough and leave.

I've spent hundreds of thousands of gems on this game. The #1 theoretical spender pales in comparison and I don't regret supporting the best MMO developer there is.

"Chump change"? Good for you. I have a different opinion on that.

[Robert Calais.8425]

11 minutes ago, firedragon.8953 said:

Think of it like this, either legendary armor or legendary runes have a certain property that makes the "magically malleable." You can't insert your magically malleable rune without extracting the non-malleable rune from the non-malleable armor, which will destroy it unless you got a very fine set of tools (upgrade extractor, etc.)

Honestly, I didn't even think of upgrade extractors, because I never have any. *sigh*

Neither did I realize that having legendary runes not destroy non-legendary runes would practically give someone an infinite upgrade extractor. Simply because I'm not one to look out for things I can abuse. I'm just trying to get along. Which, by the way, is unbelievably difficult in a game that has literally zero accessibility options. Yet another thing I have been begging for for years and since given up on.

Side note, in case a moderator reads this: Yes, I know I shouldn't be posting multiple messages after another, but I don't know how I would have been able to have this block of text in my previous message, so that's just how it's gonna be.

Edited January 28 by Robert Calais.8425

[Pinkeh.4207]

I made 7 legendary runes to bypass OP's problem.  I later did Envoy's Herald. I still use normal runes and sigils and ascended items to hotswap equipment because its cheaper than buying equipment templates. i.e. switching between firebrand tank weapons for different encounters (staff, mace, axe, shield, focus)

Edited January 28 by Pinkeh.4207

[Robert Calais.8425]

3 minutes ago, Pinkeh.4207 said:

I made 7 legendary runes to bypass OP's problem.  I later did Envoy's Herald. I still use normal runes and sigils because its cheaper than buying equipment templates.

I didn't expect that problem to exist in the first place. Had I known this beforehand, I wouldn't have crafted a legendary rune to begin with, because nothing I could possibly gain from that would justify the trouble I've got from doing so.

There are reasons to why after eleven years (game's runtime, I have no idea when they added legendary armor because it was never an option for me anyway), I don't have a single piece of legendary armor and unless ArenaNet does a 180 in terms of accessibility options, I'll never have any.

[Pinkeh.4207]

1  rune is pretty useless. 6 runes is the norm and 7 is luxury.

You should probably wait till after the legendary relic releases to complete your rune set. 

I am not sure what you mean by accessibility, you don't need to do anything for WvW armor. Just participate and earn skirmish tickets. You need to do WvW anyway for Gifts of Battle.

Raids are a different story.

Edited January 28 by Pinkeh.4207

[Luthan.5236]

As far as I unterstand it is as explained: The free swapping (without the existing upgrade being destroyed) is for legendary items and tied to their upgrade slot (armor, weapons). Not to the item you use to upgrade (the runes, sigils). Meaning you'd have to use an upgrade extractor. Or a black lion salvage kit if you don't want to keep the base item.

Since the old rune you used is not legendary ... it would not even make sense to tie free swapping to the rune. Then you'd still be able to only freely swap the legendary in but not the old one out ... when the old rune was not legendary.

I'd suggest getting upgrade extractors slowly - from the vault. And trying to aim for at least one legendary armor piece. (Then you can use a black lion salvage kit for salvaging one of your non legendary pieces - maybe get two or so and for the other 10 chars the upgrade extractor. I hope they are going to bring some in the vault in the future.)

[Robert Calais.8425]

7 minutes ago, Pinkeh.4207 said:

I am not sure what you mean by accessibility

Stuff that makes playing a game for people with disabilities more bearable.

[DanAlcedo.3281]

How on earth do you have 60 characters and dont know how none legendary gear works?

Put a rune in a none legendary item => old rune gets destroyed.

Gearing 101.