Mesmer burst is too much.....

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 2/6/2024 at 2:50 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Every time you're facing a seemingly unbeatable power mesmer take any kind of condi build and see what happens, before crying in the forum.

Its true, not to mention if you can fight oneshot thieves to any reasonable degree you can fight explosion mesmers. I wouldn't count them as even unfun/annoying to fight at this point. 

On 2/6/2024 at 2:55 PM, Deadmoose.6594 said:

or switch to thief, deadeye in particular if you want them to hate thieves so much they will come to the forums and make posts about them

*under my breath* jfc 

Edited February 10 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Nepster.4275]

The only thing mesmer is good at is doing damage in a short amount of time, and that's all

No condi cleanse, no sustain, nothing is built into the whole class, exactly zero into one shot builds

As a moa you have 2 skills you can use to escape, 80% of the times I get moad I am able to get away

Can be annoying for sure, and I agree with the fact that stealth+moa+pistol 5 + one shot combo can get hard to deal with, but first, it requires skill to pull that off second, after moa ends and u are still alive, you have a free kill there, it's a skill issue

[arazoth.7290]

3 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

The only thing mesmer is good at is doing damage in a short amount of time, and that's all

No condi cleanse, no sustain, nothing is built into the whole class, exactly zero into one shot builds

As a moa you have 2 skills you can use to escape, 80% of the times I get moad I am able to get away

Can be annoying for sure, and I agree with the fact that stealth+moa+pistol 5 + one shot combo can get hard to deal with, but first, it requires skill to pull that off second, after moa ends and u are still alive, you have a free kill there, it's a skill issue

Unless you get moad with more enemies focussing you when it happens.

Any other cc has the possibility to escape and then succesfully kite enemies away. But in that form, you're kiting like a helpless bird

[Terrorhuz.4695]

5 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Unless you get moad with more enemies focussing you when it happens.

Any other cc has the possibility to escape and then succesfully kite enemies away. But in that form, you're kiting like a helpless bird

My brother in christ, if I coordinate an entire team to act upon my 90s cd (which can still be blocked\blinded), and it lands, you better die

[arazoth.7290]

1 minute ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

My brother in christ, if I coordinate an entire team to act upon my 90s cd (which can still be blocked\blinded), and it lands, you better die

Still possible to counter with an entire team on you.

If we go out that your allies have the same coordination to counter pressure those on you.

If your in moa you can't contribute much else beside running like a chicken while enemy has free play. If you're normally cc'd, you can counter with a stunbreak while enemy team is on you. Now the difference in both, with breaking cc you can use after your own abilities to kite/counter the enemies.

And if team coordinates enough, they can pressure enough off you while you can do some yourself after cc. With moa you can't

 

So you can defend moa as mesmer main as much you want, but you aint getting it 😁

[Terrorhuz.4695]

19 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

So you can defend moa as mesmer main as much you want, but you aint getting it 

I'm so very scared of the amount of people getting owned by coordinated moa bursts (those people being: you and nobody else)

Edited February 11 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Stand The Wall.6987]

ppl are still complaining about this? lol i remember this exact thread popping up everywhere during core days

[arazoth.7290]

25 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'm so very scared of the amount of people getting owned by coordinated moa bursts (those people being: you and nobody else)

Never said I did myself.

Those who play don't have the team coordination to pull it off and I still haven't seen better players using it bc probably some other elites more usefull overall then 1 trick pony.

But there isn't a reason to update this to make it breakable cc and remove then those abilties you can use to attack, jump away,... .

 

So far I know you main mesmer, yet you don't advocate those 1 trick pony abilties in some occasions strong, others not. Both abiltirs are too far seperated to have a middle ground of reliability and not between useless/really strong in right circumstances.

Why don't you want an ability that's like that, you play mesmer so why don't you think of some ideas to accomplish this.

I don't even play mesmer, so why do I have to bring attention to this even. Well that's because about other classes and don't want stuff to become useless like I have often stated on other topics not related to this. 

So go ahead put something up instead of going on like that

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 minute ago, arazoth.7290 said:

So far I know you main mesmer, yet you don't advocate those 1 trick pony abilties in some occasions strong, others not

Depends on the counterability. Never asked for nerfs to rampage or lich form, for example, and moa works just the same. Super telegraphed skill, and the mesmer has no way to convert that into a kill; it requires the team, and moa alone is a wasted cooldown. There's a reason mesmers are running pretty much every elite (even time warp) before moa.

[arazoth.7290]

Just now, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

Depends on the counterability. Never asked for nerfs to rampage or lich form, for example, and moa works just the same. Super telegraphed skill, and the mesmer has no way to convert that into a kill; it requires the team, and moa alone is a wasted cooldown. There's a reason mesmers are running pretty much every elite (even time warp) before moa.

And that's why some suggestions to change it for the overall good. I am pretty sure mesmers would be more then pleased for an extra elite option that is working nicely and not something like that

[Terrorhuz.4695]

5 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

And that's why some suggestions to change it for the overall good. I am pretty sure mesmers would be more then pleased for an extra elite option that is working nicely and not something like that

I am pretty sure mesmers would not. Let us play with our wonky elite and have fun with memes. It's almost totally unused, it's plenty counterable, it's fun, don't make a problem out of it. It's not.

Edited February 11 by Terrorhuz.4695

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I am pretty sure mesmers would not. Let us play with our wonky elite and have fun with memes. It's almost totally unused, it's plenty counterable, it's fun, don't make a problem out of it. It's not.

Some people say, fix what is broken and don't temper what isn't. 

And then you have people who like to play with broken stuff (not meant like op, just damaged)

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

On 2/11/2024 at 2:42 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I'm so very scared of the amount of people getting owned by coordinated moa bursts (those people being: you and nobody else)

Untrue

I also get hit by moa burst because whenever moa lands I am morally obligated to stop whatever I am doing and type "QUACK" or some derivative, then heal whoever on my team needs it the least

Edited February 14 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Meviken.2054]

On 2/6/2024 at 1:46 PM, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

I feel personally attacked by this kind of content

Why? Have you complained excessively about thieves?

[Meviken.2054]

On 2/11/2024 at 12:24 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

And that's why some suggestions to change it for the overall good. I am pretty sure mesmers would be more then pleased for an extra elite option that is working nicely and not something like that

Nope. I play a mesmer (not as often as I'd like), and it's a fine class. I get stomped in WvW real quick. What's the issue?

[Terrorhuz.4695]

4 hours ago, Meviken.2054 said:

Why? Have you complained excessively about thieves?

I'd debate the "excessively", but yeah I might have done that.

[Nepster.4275]

I really can't understand why people are still stuck up on mesmers literally having something that actually has a use, like man, the whole kitten class is a mess at this point, traits got changed so much that they make no sense with each other, you can't even go anything of a defensive sustain build since they needed to do a full expansion just so mesmers finally get a supportive weapon which probably is close to being useless since the whole design of the class is resting on gimmicky mechanics and perfect timings, like when did you see a hammer DH counting the dodges of an enemy in a 1v1 or a warrior treating their movement abilities like if it would be the Holy Grail, we have no sustain built into the traits that actually get use, you use all your weapon skills for burst and after that you are running around with only your dodges left, you don't even have swiftness on you kitten

Like, okey, so we can't burst... But then give mesmer an actual duelist build with self-sustain healing and boons while I can keep using some damage traits and don't need to go Chaos/Insp for it...

Rather go and complain on Guardian/Ranger forums because like this at the end they will just make so mesmers can only stand in one place on the middle of home

 

Edited February 14 by Nepster.4275

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

5 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

Like, okey, so we can't burst... But then give mesmer an actual duelist build with self-sustain healing and boons while I can keep using some damage traits and don't need to go Chaos/Insp for it...

Never buy the bold.

Nuke mesmer is one of the only variants I enjoy fighting. 

Coming from someone who is thematically obligated to hate Mesmers breathing near me due to maining warrior (but also obligated to respect the players thereof because power mes is kinda hard), I would many times over rather a nice QTE fight over minutes upon minutes of:
"Oh he's casting staff/scepter", "oh now he's distorted" "he's over there now" "I have a bunch of confusion on me so I literally just have to kite while he chases without swiftness", etc. 

Especially now that I have a little bit of stab, so I can bait powerblock enhanced distractions by casting the heal, then covering it at the last second with stab to take a change of the mantra off the skillbar. 

Quote

give mesmer an actual duelist build

This is virtuoso. duelist mesmer presents its own problems, and I would much rather "I can delete you by looking at you but a single burn stack ruins my day" than a staring contest. 

Edited February 14 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Nepster.4275]

18 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

This is virtuoso. duelist mesmer presents its own problems, and I would much rather "I can delete you by looking at you but a single burn stack ruins my day" than a staring contest. 

Well, okey, let's call virt a duelist build tho it is not even close to a normal duelist build like Holo for example, or Untamed or even Willbender, yes I agree it has block and it has around 6 second of invuln with maxed out F4 and the utility skill, but that's all it has, if you are as you said a warrior player, you can easily kite around for that duration, and again if you take most of the other duelist builds they are not full power builds, they take a sustain trait but if you take a sustain trait on mesmer or God forbid a sustain rune, you do no damage as the first thing, the second is that all of the mesmer defensive traits are bad, let me explain

So, if you go Dueling(for confusion on blind and confusion trait) you lose Illusions/CDR on shatters + Burning from torch + Torment on shatters + Reflect on Distortion

If you go Illusions you lose Dueling/Extra bleeding from phantasm attacks + Fury uptime +and some vigor

And what you gain with dropping any of these traits for either Chaos or Insp? With insp you get some rather unpredictable condi cleanse, and 1-2 sec more distortion or ~1k healing on shatters, like Holo has more condition cleanse in it in one trait than the **whole** Inspiration traitline

And what you get if you go chaos? You can either get some boons and daze on your healing skills (With 75s ICD) or some laughable amount of protection that is tied to shattering which makes it to be used in the offensive process not in the defensive one, you get some of the worst condi cleanses on distortion with a 35s ICD, you can enhance stealth duration and maybe get actually useful boons during stealth, or you can get might and vigor on F1 and F2 shatters, which again giving you 3 stack of might for 5 seconds and 5 sec of vigor, and that's it

Where in the world could I build a duelist build with these when even if I go Insp/Chaos I get some unpredictable boons, ~1k healing every 3 sec if I can shatter 2 clones on average, and a whopping total of 4 condition cleanses if I cast a phantasm and use distortion, like, yeah and let me remind you that I lose all my damage like this and now, let's get the first build from metabattle for Warrior just to compare

Defense/ Prot on heal skill + Heal for adrenaline spent(Around the same as heal on shatter) + -10% damage when u have Resolution and condi cleanse for each bar of Adrenaline spent up to 3
Discipline / Adrenaline gen(pointing it out since mesmer can't generate any clone to use it's effects only with weapon skills) + Movement speed with addition damage with swiftness and immob cleanse on movement skills so I would assume atleast GS3+5 SH4 + CDR and condi cleanse and adrenaline on wep swap + might generation + swiftness on adrenaline spent 

And I will not go into SPB or Bers for the other traits there, like yes, your traits actually have synergy give you damage+chase potention + heal + condi cleanse, so basically these two traitlines and enhancing each other, while on mesmer one trait locks you into one weapon basically(Domination for GS/ Chaos for Staff / Illu for torch+scepter / Dueling for pistol)

I'm not saying warrior is op, or anything is op, all I am doing is just showing that even tho people say virt is a duelist build, it's not, you either go full DPS on it and rely on dodge/invuln and sometimes block when ofc you are not getting hit with unblockables and you lose all condi cleanse and all of your healings or you can go any of the defensive traits but then again weapon specific traits are the only useful ones there, which you either use or not

And this isn't warrior only, you can take a holo or a ranger as an example too, even guardians 

As I said, either here or somewhere else, mesmer traits got reworked so much that you basically have no synergy not just between traitlines, but mostly even between traits inside the same traitline, and I would be happy if this would be possible to solve with just a simple trait rework, but no, the mechanics of mesmers again got changed together with traits so much, that nowdays the whole class is held together with gimmicky mechanics that you are either good enough to pull off, or not

It's enough if you compare the top 50 classes in PvP, you maybe find one or two mesmers there, and maybe some who are good at pulling off one of the gimmicks of mesmers. but that's it

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Nepster.4275 said:

I'm not saying warrior is op, or anything is op, all I am doing is just showing that even tho people say virt is a duelist build, it's not, you either go full DPS on it and rely on dodge/invuln and sometimes block when ofc you are not getting hit with unblockables and you lose all condi cleanse and all of your healings or you can go any of the defensive traits but then again weapon specific traits are the only useful ones there, which you either use or not

This is what I meant by "presents it's own problems", by the way. I agree with this..

I was being catty. Virt can duel a little because of the mitigation options bladesongs afford, but it's so slow to the point that it's often not going to get the position to do that until well after they are needed somewhere else. There are additional problems with the design that make it unfitting for prolonged point contesting, even though it's pretty obvious the intent was for it to fill that role.

Quote

 the second is that all of the mesmer defensive traits are bad, let me explain

I am less in agreement with this chunk, but this is neither here nor there as far as the thread topic goes

Edited February 15 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Virt can duel a little because of the mitigation options bladesongs afford, but it's so slow to the point that it's often not going to get the position to do that until well after they are needed somewhere else

On the opposite end of the spectrum we have oneshot virtuosos sniping the support from 1200 range with 5 boonrip + 10k bladesong harmony through a block, because those little firebrand are having way too much fun.

Edited February 15 by Terrorhuz.4695

[Nepster.4275]

28 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

On the opposite end of the spectrum we have oneshot virtuosos sniping the support from 1200 range with 5 boonrip + 10k bladesong harmony through a block, because those little firebrand are having way too much fun.

Like if deadeye would not be capable of doing the same, except the unblockable, a DH coudn't LB5 F2 trap spam in the middle of the teamfight, or a WB coudn't jump in there, and chain CC and burst the support then jump back to the other side of the map, or a reaper coudn't jump into there and elite -> unblockable -> reaper 54

And even tho, it is unblockable iirc you can still dodge and I only know about ripping 2 boons, not 5

[Terrorhuz.4695]

2 hours ago, Nepster.4275 said:

Like if deadeye would not be capable of doing the same, except the unblockable, a DH coudn't LB5 F2 trap spam in the middle of the teamfight, or a WB coudn't jump in there, and chain CC and burst the support then jump back to the other side of the map, or a reaper coudn't jump into there and elite -> unblockable -> reaper 54

And even tho, it is unblockable iirc you can still dodge and I only know about ripping 2 boons, not 5

Shattered Concentration strips one boon per blade, shoot 5 blades you strip 5 boons. Other classes has better ranged options, but being able to sneak a fat ranged burst through bubbles without excessive telegraph is a thing virtuoso is quite good at.

So long as nobody is focusing you, that is, but that's what freecasting mesmer does.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

3 hours ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said:

On the opposite end of the spectrum we have oneshot virtuosos sniping the support from 1200 range with 5 boonrip + 10k bladesong harmony through a block, because those little firebrand are having way too much fun.

Welcome to thief

[Terrorhuz.4695]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Welcome to thief

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