Vindicator

[Gotejjeken.1267]

May need to be looked at (again).  

The burst potential on whatever build is coming around is huge; things are dying in seconds--power vindi has been strong for a bit, but this is kinda nuts.  

Seeing more of them popping up--and also getting weird skill lag issue when there's enough of them in the game; just got out of a game with four (two on each team) and skill responsiveness was noticeably down.  Wasn't ping as no rubber banding (ping was 50), but skills just would not activate correctly.  

[arazoth.7290]

What is precisely the problem you have against high glass vindi builds. Ps. they aren't op currently, rather balanced and that's fine imo.

But tell your problem which parts of them you find difficult from them? And on which spec you play vs them. Then we can maybe help with this l2p issue. Because most of the times, things can be avoided when you look at it more closely.

[Jake.7526]

hmmm vindi seems really bad right now, what rank are you? I am curious who the vindi that was hurting you was. Thanks

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

All I wanna know is why are we pretending GS 5 then covering with an extended dodge that also damages on land, then poking from a distance with Archemorus 8 and 0 until Shiro is off cd again is not that good, but also nerfing power berserker every chance we get ❤️ 

If Vindi is acceptable, balance power zerk like that. 

 

Edited February 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261
Now with 90% less snark

[Vinny.7260]

12 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

All I wanna know is why are we pretending GS 5 then covering with an extended dodge that also damages on land, then poking from a distance with Archemorus 8 and 0 until Shiro is off cd again is not that good, but also nerfing power berserker every chance we get ❤️ 

If Vindi is acceptable, balance power zerk like that. 

 

I would like to request the full-snark edition.

 

Also I blame a difference in mechanics in this situation really. The energy mechanic makes it more acceptable for Vindicator to do what it does; even if it is pretty degenerate.

 

Only way Warrior could do something similar is if it had abilities that consumed Adrenaline or something... Hold on. Goes to stare at GW1 Warrior skills.

Edited February 13 by Vinny.7260

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

17 minutes ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Only way Warrior could do something similar is if it had abilities that consumed Adrenaline

*Deadpan stare at the camera, no laugh track. Slowly looks over to every burst skill and Berserk that crit for 4.5-6k on a good day and hits prot /glances/whiffs/is blinded/is blocked by a single stack of aegis anytime else*

Quote

The energy mechanic makes it more acceptable for Vindicator to do what it does; even if it is pretty degenerate.

Jokes aside

The energy mechanic is a non issue because vindi skills dont use significant portions of the bar, and vindis that take major trait 2 can reset it whenever they want.

And given that they have magnetic tracking on spear from range, they have breathing room to do that. 

I'm not saying it's degenerate.  Just balance warrior like that. I'd love having a button that can just eat through aegis/multiblock utilities/blinds that lingers after I cast it, and all that.

Edited February 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[arazoth.7290]

37 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*Deadpan stare at the camera, no laugh track. Slowly looks over to every burst skill and Berserk that crit for 4.5-6k on a good day and hits prot /glances/whiffs/is blinded/is blocked by a single stack of aegis anytime else*

Jokes aside

The energy mechanic is a non issue because vindi skills dont use significant portions of the bar, and vindis that take major trait 2 can reset it whenever they want.

And given that they have magnetic tracking on spear from range, they have breathing room to do that. 

I'm not saying it's degenerate.  Just balance warrior like that. I'd love having a button that can just eat through aegis/multiblock utilities/blinds that lingers after I cast it, and all that.

Using F2 skill with that trait in alliance stance, is kinda a waste of useage

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

7 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Using F2 skill with that trait in alliance stance, is kinda a waste of useage

I am merely pointing out that the option exists on top of an already negligible energy usage for most vindi skills to begin with. 

The main point is that if energy is the determining factor for why vindi's damage spread looks the way it does, that factor is of insignificant consequence.

Warrior's damage spread should look like that but Anet trips over itself in an effort to go the opposite direction. 

Edited February 13 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Buran.3796]

  Sure Rev's  hammer and staff could get some nerfs. Also: Renegade. 

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

I am merely pointing out that the option exists on top of an already negligible energy usage for most vindi skills to begin with. 

The main point is that if energy is the determining factor for why vindi's damage spread looks the way it does, that factor is of insignificant consequence.

Warrior's damage spread should look like that but Anet trips over itself in an effort to go the opposite direction. 

The option exists, but it doesn't adds more meaningfull.

I merely pointed out that it is better to use on 1 of the core stances, shiro, centaur, mallyx and dwarf.

I wasn't trying put an argue, just was pointing out something too

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

The option exists, but it doesn't adds more meaningfull.

I merely pointed out that it is better to use on 1 of the core stances, shiro, centaur, mallyx and dwarf.

I wasn't trying put an argue, just was pointing out something too

I understood, also wasn't trying to argue. :3 

[Sereath.1428]

🤣

Brother, vindicator is the only decent spec for Revenant at the moment, and has been for a while. Very bad variety.
>Strong
Strong now means too decent I suppose. Needs more nerfs so that the class goes back to being the least played one. But isn't it already?
Too used to Revenants being as unrewarding and unforgiving as other builds that were good a long time ago, like Power Herald, huh?

Also, Energy Meld with a 30s cd is bad, even if you want to abuse the "free energy" with the middle trait. Especially since, in order to make Energy Meld do something now, they completely deleted the traits that gave vindicators reliable endurance, such as that middle one that used to give 10 endurance with every legend and alliance swap. That was a lot better for consistency.

And here I thought it was "finally balanced", since it has been by far the least mentioned class on this forum. Aka forgotten.

Edited February 13 by Sereath.1428

[Eddie.9143]

vindi heals basically do nothing now with the amount of condi, poison, and demon queen. if you want to beat a vindi just use condi and CC. I actually think herald is in a better spot right now just because infuse light can keep you alive vs FA and some other heavy hitters when vindi's heals end up doing nothing, or getting cc'd.

[Sereath.1428]

2 hours ago, Eddie.9143 said:

vindi heals basically do nothing now with the amount of condi, poison, and demon queen. if you want to beat a vindi just use condi and CC. I actually think herald is in a better spot right now just because infuse light can keep you alive vs FA and some other heavy hitters when vindi's heals end up doing nothing, or getting cc'd.

Yeah, one heals for 2.8k, the other for 3.5k. Both have a very long channel and both have a 30s cd. 💀
And you have to commit to changing your entire utility bar if you want to make use of a particular heal. And if you are locked out because of the 10-second cooldown on Alliance Tactics, tough luck.

Infuse Light has good potential, in theory.
2 seconds is miserable, even against multiple players, and even worse against a single good player.

The duration is so poor that even if you get buried in conditions/aoe spammed, you will not heal enough and still die a second after it ends:
Twitch

With Power Herald you need to be at least twice as good as everyone else. That's why no one bothers with it:

https://youtu.be/M2DRrEHsP-4

WvW doesn't have that nerf along others and Herald is still dead there.
Yeah, in fictional scenarios the heal sounds good, but it just doesn't work that well with the current durations. The casting time on Facet of Light was already a fantastic change that happened a long time ago.
Maybe they wouldn't be as bad if they weren't all 30s cd.

Edited February 14 by Sereath.1428

[Shagie.7612]

important to note here that this is about a hammer rev

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

12 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

important to note here that this is about a hammer rev

Please explain so I can switch back to 💀 if true

is channel the dragon up to memes that people think need to be balanced?

I need context. 

[Shagie.7612]

37 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Please explain so I can switch back to 💀 if true

hammer slammered with big... dammered idk i got nothin

nobody dodges the 2/3 and hammer 4 has a 1.8coeff now which is pretty big
 

[Unknown.6851]

Vindi is actually dogwater rn...

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

1 hour ago, Shagie.7612 said:

hammer slammered with big... dammered idk i got nothin

nobody dodges the 2/3 and hammer 4 has a 1.8coeff now which is pretty big
 

I just need to know -why- we are talking about hammer suddenly. Is OP's grievance with hammer vindicator? 

I believe people eat hammer 2/3 because people literally eat everything then come here to complain but is OP doing this?

I'm talking about the vindi that actually plays half decently. The greatsword/staff one. or Greatsword/Sword Sword if you're feeling spicy~

28 minutes ago, Unknown.6851 said:

Vindi is actually dogwater rn...

nah, gaslighting.

If you (or Anet devs) believe that in your soul, balance warrior like vindi, lets go

Edited February 14 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Wolf.1972]

5 hours ago, Sereath.1428 said:

🤣

Brother, vindicator is the only decent spec for Revenant at the moment, and has been for a while. Very bad variety.
>Strong
Strong now means too decent I suppose. Needs more nerfs so that the class goes back to being the least played one. But isn't it already?
Too used to Revenants being as unrewarding and unforgiving as other builds that were good a long time ago, like Power Herald, huh?

Also, Energy Meld with a 30s cd is bad, even if you want to abuse the "free energy" with the middle trait. Especially since, in order to make Energy Meld do something now, they completely deleted the traits that gave vindicators reliable endurance, such as that middle one that used to give 10 endurance with every legend and alliance swap. That was a lot better for consistency.

And here I thought it was "finally balanced", since it has been by far the least mentioned class on this forum. Aka forgotten.

Preach it brother, it's literally all that power rev has and people want it "looked at" LOL I swear.. you know classes that are high skill should have high reward but honestly people can't handle that good players tend to play rev and thus they get owned and go.. WOW ITS SO OP!! IT MUST BE!!! xD

[Shagie.7612]

1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Is OP's grievance with hammer vindicator? 

probably not specifically but that's what was clobbering everyone in the match op was in 10 minutes before this post was made lol

anyways i don't think it's fair to call vindi bad in the meta, not the strongest but not weak.

and it's got waaaaay more options and available choices and buttons to it than herald and renegade

the latter i think is the major complaint people have in general about balance, big power creep gaps between the top and bottom still even if balance is decent around the top

Edited February 14 by Shagie.7612

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

probably not specifically but that's what was clobbering everyone in the match op was in 10 minutes before this post was made lol

Oh no... 💀

[Shagie.7612]

14 minutes ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Oh no... 💀

more specifically it's this dude

18 hours ago, Jake.7526 said:

hmmm vindi seems really bad right now, what rank are you? I am curious who the vindi that was hurting you was. Thanks

 

[Lucentfir.7430]

11 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

*Deadpan stare at the camera, no laugh track. Slowly looks over to every burst skill and Berserk that crit for 4.5-6k on a good day and hits prot /glances/whiffs/is blinded/is blocked by a single stack of aegis anytime else*

Jokes aside

The energy mechanic is a non issue because vindi skills dont use significant portions of the bar, and vindis that take major trait 2 can reset it whenever they want.

And given that they have magnetic tracking on spear from range, they have breathing room to do that. 

I'm not saying it's degenerate.  Just balance warrior like that. I'd love having a button that can just eat through aegis/multiblock utilities/blinds that lingers after I cast it, and all that.

I weep when I see people whining about Spb or Warrior doing any sort of significant damage with long wind ups and animation locks. Having learned and playing Deva Vindi as secondary it's VERY strong when you nail down how to play it, people are underestimating the consistency of a well executed Vindi since it has some massive explosive tracking damage and ports, and is even less prone to Whiffing because of resistance on movement skills,  Shiro port -> Deathstrike lands you a  Unblockable. Unblindable, unweaken-able 7k single hit(after hitting the first), if not evaded, and could combo into any other of the high damaging skills, it's a little condi prone but managing alliance stance and legend swapping well you don't worry too much about it since Tree Song Cleanses and it heals per condi on top of regen.. I feel  like the Energy Mechanic only matters sometimes if you're being reckless with spamming skills but like if you sit on it for just a few seconds instead of going buck wild it's easy to just get extended burst combos off as long as you're in combat . Energy would really be crucial management resource if it did not reset to 50 every time you legend swap(this is a bad idea btw). Though tbh I think it's fine where it is currently mainly because there are plenty of other specs around that are pretty obnoxious to fight too. 

[Gotejjeken.1267]

2 hours ago, Shagie.7612 said:

more specifically it's this dude

And what rank is "that dude"? As if you are correct about the match (there were three back-to-back in unranked)--I assure you 'that dude' knows what they are doing and is capping.  

We'll see if it makes it into AT or how prevalent it becomes in higher ranked; I see at least one vindicator in every ranked game I play now at mid-g3.