Next weapon for Revenant

[Shagie.7612]

I don't quite see what niche this is meant to fill.

It doesn't have a defensive on it, unless there's a bunch of built in aegis/blinds/cleanses, so it probably can't replace mace/shield for any condi builds, even for Ren/Vindi who don't get the shield trait.

The mobility skill is nice, but not having the block is death, and mace also can blast mallyx elite for blinds.

It'll just be used as shortbow 2.0 at that point, then?

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

4 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It'll just be used as shortbow 2.0 at that point, then?

I think that's the point. They went with a melee hybrid weapon. Shortbow is ranged hybrid weapon. There may well be some exceptions if numbers are super strong, but it'll probably end up being mace/axe + spear in pve and spear + GS(Staff, xShield) whatever defensive setup you're using in pvp environments

 

 

[arazoth.7290]

6 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

I don't quite see what niche this is meant to fill.

It doesn't have a defensive on it, unless there's a bunch of built in aegis/blinds/cleanses, so it probably can't replace mace/shield for any condi builds, even for Ren/Vindi who don't get the shield trait.

The mobility skill is nice, but not having the block is death, and mace also can blast mallyx elite for blinds.

It'll just be used as shortbow 2.0 at that point, then?

I guess ====> blinds, weakness and so on and maybe even a mix of damaging condis with chill.

No clue, guess we will see tomorow.

The only thing what I know, animations looked neat, mechanic wise we have to see because of what they pulled of with scepter for example 😂

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

4 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

blinds, weakness and so on and maybe even a mix of damaging condis with chill.

In the video we see torment, chill, and slow visual effects on the mob. We also see vuln on the ranged opener, but that's on the first hit of the fight so it may be from the devastation trait line. The chill and slow looks like they're on the mine skill. And torment just spaced out everywhere. So pretty much same exact pool of condi's rev is use too....

Also the removal of slow off Axe makes more sense now if Spear has a slow. Though I miss my axe slow so much QQ

[Shagie.7612]

12 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

They went with a melee hybrid weapon.

It's not a hybrid damage type weapon, though. It's a condi weapon that's a melee/range hybrid.

I mean, I suppose to some degree all condi weapons are hybrid because they all have some degree of power scaling, but it's designed as a condition weapon first and foremost.

It's got both CC and a mobility skill that tries to punish chasers on it. If it does even slightly decent pressure from ranged, how would it not make shortbow obsolete?

e: I do agree it looks really cool though. Most of the spear kits are neat. Glad they didn't just reuse animations like most of the SotO ones.

Edited June 20 by Shagie.7612

[draxynnic.3719]

2 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It's not a hybrid damage type weapon, though. It's a condi weapon that's a melee/range hybrid.

I mean, I suppose to some degree all condi weapons are hybrid because they all have some degree of power scaling, but it's designed as a condition weapon first and foremost.

It's got both CC and a mobility skill that tries to punish chasers on it. If it does even slightly decent pressure from ranged, how would it not make shortbow obsolete?

The wording is a bit ambiguous. 'Hybrid' is typically used to represent a weapon that has good power scaling and good condition application, but I suspect your interpretation might be correct since they specified that it's condi-based, and implied it might have the same "your auto depends on your distance from the target" mechanic that ranger spear has. Depends on what the power scaling is actually like, though.

[arazoth.7290]

11 minutes ago, UncreativeGreen.2019 said:

In the video we see torment, chill, and slow visual effects on the mob. We also see vuln on the ranged opener, but that's on the first hit of the fight so it may be from the devastation trait line. The chill and slow looks like they're on the mine skill. And torment just spaced out everywhere. So pretty much same exact pool of condi's rev is use too....

Also the removal of slow off Axe makes more sense now if Spear has a slow. Though I miss my axe slow so much QQ

Ohwell, the video made me curious atleast, so will see tomorrow further.

And about axe, it just feels odd, idk why

[Buran.3796]

  Doesn't say the description in the news that the strongest skill (#5) has charges but using some of the other skills do consume those charges? So, on top of energy and cooldowns the use of skills have some sort of a third resource to manage?

   Well, at least they didn't ad stealth..

[arazoth.7290]

8 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Doesn't say the description in the news that the strongest skill (#5) has charges but using some of the other skills do consume those charges? So, on top of energy and cooldowns the use of skills have some sort of a third resource to manage?

   Well, at least they didn't ad stealth..

The other four revenant spear skills enable the use of Abyssal Raze (skill 5) by reducing its ammunition cooldown and keeping you and your enemies positioned opportunistically on the battleground.

So it doesn't consume, just reduces 5th skill cd as the main theater thingy

[Buran.3796]

  Oh, thanks. Next week is the open beta, so we could have a better understanding. 

[arazoth.7290]

8 minutes ago, Buran.3796 said:

  Oh, thanks. Next week is the open beta, so we could have a better understanding. 

And I thought they would show tomorow in a stream all weapon abilities what they do too

[Angesombre.4630]

Tomorrow, we’ll be showing off all of the new spear skills during a Twitch livestream at noon Pacific Time (UTC-7). In addition, there will be a beta event from June 27 at 9:00 a.m. until June 30 at 10:00 p.m. Pacific Time (UTC-7) where everyone can try out spears and give us feedback!

[Tempest.8479]

I think the spear could find an immediate niche in WvW with the aoe pressure and mobility. It also doesn't appear to have any projectiles, as even its ranged autos look like they launch the spear into the air and it crashes down on enemies. To what extent it can actually be viable at range remains to be seen, but getting around projectile hate would give it a leg up in WvW.

[Wulfhearth.7962]

Rev Spear looks really cool, it's gonna work soooo well with the skin "Impaler".

I hope it's as fun to play as it looks good. 

[arazoth.7290]

2 hours ago, Wulfhearth.7962 said:

Rev Spear looks really cool, it's gonna work soooo well with the skin "Impaler".

I hope it's as fun to play as it looks good. 

I hope for lots of new spear skins

[Angesombre.4630]

So how can I put this tormenting, super-slow skill 4 and 5 animation with an incantation time unlike all the other weapons des autres professions and very low damage. RIP revenant, after the scepter, the spear

Edited June 21 by Angesombre.4630

[Buran.3796]

  Had luck enough to open the stream and was finishing Ranger so I saw Reevant and all ended in 6 minutes. My impressions:

* Condi weapon with slow animations and barely any cover condtion (chill in the cc, which is also delayed to the last pulse).

* 0 potential in PvP/WvW roaming since is just a worse short bow and short bow in PvP is wielded with power builds.

* The movement skill (#3) is at most a 450 dash. I think that is evcven shorter.

  So 0 hype. As happened with SotO, I don't think I would buy the expansion at the release.

[Sereath.1428]

That was awful. Scepter moment.

>Condi
>Awful range
>Short dash
>Slow as kitten

Ok.

Edited June 21 by Sereath.1428

[Angesombre.4630]

Another shame for the "revenant". After the scepter, the spear...

[Angesombre.4630]

I can’t wait to give feedback because it’s crap at first glance.

Elem skills are 1000 times better

Edited June 21 by Angesombre.4630

[Shagie.7612]

Trying not to be too cynical but... 600 range is really rough, especially on a weapon that, by their own description, has a big ramp up time. You've gotta close massive range, and then land a bunch of slow casts?

Shortbow at 900 already runs into situations where you're massively on the back foot or lost the trade before you even get into range (1200+ longbows, deadeye rifle, necro staff, that kinda stuff), and condi legends don't have real gap closers, nor would you really want to anyways since that's throwing away the advantage of a ranged weapon.
They mentioned they might bump up the range, and if they do it'd be better. At 900 you're now creating two weapons filling the same spot, which seems really silly.

I really think it should have been an alternative to mace+shield/axe rather than a ranged weapon, the condi version of greatsword.

Having said that, it's ENTIRELY torment for damage? You're never gonna hurt anything, torment's literally worse damage than bleed in pvp 99.9% of the time.
You land a Skull Grinder on czerk and it does like 9 different conditions at once. You land all 3 Abyssal Razes, your biggest move here, and you have.... torment? The amount of chill and slow on the other skills is fairly low too.

This doesn't help condi builds where they struggle, and even in PvE how will you play it without Abyssal Chill, which throws away a ton of damage from every other source via Pact of Pain.

bro lol the pull field doesn't even pulse chill, it's ONLY the final tick and after 1.5s on top of the 1s cast time? like what

Edited June 21 by Shagie.7612

[Angesombre.4630]

 

I'm so mad at Anet with everything going wrong and him listening to no one.

Edited June 21 by Angesombre.4630

[Buran.3796]

Any of the underwater Rev weapons run in circles around the spear...

Maybe the solution would be wielding Soshadoo, kicking out the ztupid quaggan and putting there a Rev asura with trident?

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

PVE POINT OF VIEW

Once again, the weapon seems like it was designed on a dps golem with the idea that you'd be under permanent quickness and alacrity. The animations are so slow without the numbers to back up the the time it takes. For example, If I'm hitting a single target, it'll take 5 uses of Raze to even get to the most impactful version that applies 5 torment. That's not a condi weapon, that's a position 2 skill for a lot of classes. Once again, from the perspective of hitting a single target WITH ALACRITY and putting together a rough rotation just based off of the tooltips (obviously the hands on beta will let us get a better grasp of things) would be: 

Raze (3) 10e, 1 torment
Force 5e, 2 torment, 2s chill
Raze (2) 10e, 2 torment
Raze (1) 10e, 3 torment
Blot 12e, 0 torment, 2s chill
Auto's 1 torment each
Raze (2) 10e, 4 torment
Force 5e, 2 torment, 2s chill
Raze (1) 10e, 5 torment

That's over a 10+ second window, 72 energy used, for a total of 19 torment applied (minus the autos). That seems extremely lack luster. You decide to shoot yourself in the legs to use abyssal chill and congrats, you now have 22 torment.... so much synergy kek. 

I need the beta to get a better grasp of what it feels like with the ammo resets, but I'm kind of at a loss of words for how underwhelming it feels on paper. IDK, well see

EDIT: Also that rotation will only work for the first swap. Once you swap weapons your abyssal stacks will time out and you'll have to build them back up to 5 stacks again when you get back to spear. HOWEVER, because the ammo recharge of Raze is 15s (11.25 alacrity) you wont even have a single charge to use when you swap back and cant even use the same rotation and probably wont even be able to hit 5 stacks again in a 10s window.

 

Edited June 21 by UncreativeGreen.2019
Additional thought

[Tobias.4975]

Where should i start? I realy like the animations and the idea behind it.

BUT:

600 range, realy? It's a shame to talk about "maybe change to 900." It needs at least to be 900 range, no discussion.

The condi-variety isn't that great. Maybe adding bleed, or poison, and / or some non damaging condis. To play with the trait "Abyssal Chill" you need a constant sources of chill. Why not making Skill 4 pulsing chill, or add some on the other skills? The on-last-puls-Idea isn't good, did't work on chrono wells, got fixed years after, so why making the same mistake again?

The Mine-Dash looks good, except for the range, but that's for all the new dashes, 

Last but not least, why are all skills snail-like slow. Doe to the long casttimes It doesn't look very rewarding. Plus you got a long rampup time befor your mainskill 5 does it's maximum damage. Damage seems a bit low for the effort, but we will see next week. Paperwise its not good.