Best counters against Willbenders in WvW/PvP?

[Iustitian.9176]

What are the best counters against Willbenders in WvW/PvP?

I played the actual meta by myself and after 1 hour i was ashamed how strong it is (i was). Most people got down after 1-3 seconds. Only a bunker condi druid got me (and a thief ran away successfully). 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Like always. 

👉Don't play PvP👈

👉Don't run around solo in WvW👈

👉Gain inner peace👈

[Sonork.2916]

First, learn to Dodge sword 5.  Next,

From personal exp, the classes below need to put the least effort to beat a WB.

Cele - Rev/harb/Mirage/condi teef  (though these can stall out along with other cele classes)

Power - Bladesworn and Spell Breaker/Holo/Teef(stealth/port)/Vindi/Weaver/Mesmer

There are some unkillable rangers but I don't know the build.

 

Edited March 21 by Sonork.2916

[Kuya.6495]

5 hours ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

What are the best counters against Willbenders in WvW/PvP?

I played the actual meta by myself and after 1 hour i was ashamed how strong it is (i was). Most people got down after 1-3 seconds. Only a bunker condi druid got me (and a thief ran away successfully). 

You played against a deadeye or daredevil on willbender and made them run away? Wow you must be the greatest guardian player ever! I bet you are so good with your OP build that you could even solo a staff spellbreaker. I'm not sure if anet should nerf willbender or you!

Good on you, OP!

Edited March 21 by Kuya.6495

[Iustitian.9176]

5 hours ago, Sonork.2916 said:

First, learn to Dodge sword 5.  Next,

From personal exp, the classes below need to put the least effort to beat a WB.

Cele - Rev/harb/Mirage/condi teef  (though these can stall out along with other cele classes)

Power - Bladesworn and Spell Breaker/Holo/Teef(stealth/port)/Vindi/Weaver/Mesmer

There are some unkillable rangers but I don't know the build.

 

Thanks 🙂 i will test some of these cele builds (Druid and Mirage) and Spellbreaker. Perhaps i learn to avoid the first spike attacks better this way.

[Verungi.4396]

I use Dragon's gear on my WB and while sometimes I do get quick kills (although sometimes the "opponent" is AFK...), I find that often other willbenders make quick work of me. I suppose the crucial thing is timing dodges correctly and I fail at that.

Sometimes I come across what I assume are really new players and then I can kill two players almost at once. I wonder if that is how it feels most of the time for those players who actually are really good? 🤔

[Kuya.6495]

22 minutes ago, Verungi.4396 said:

I use Dragon's gear on my WB and while sometimes I do get quick kills (although sometimes the "opponent" is AFK...), I find that often other willbenders make quick work of me. I suppose the crucial thing is timing dodges correctly and I fail at that.

Sometimes I come across what I assume are really new players and then I can kill two players almost at once. I wonder if that is how it feels most of the time for those players who actually are really good? 🤔

Every player I've met that dies to a willbender in seconds has always stood there tanking hits for no reason.  Sometimes I even wonder if I was fighting a bot. It's really shocking when someone isn't even immobilized but they stand in whirling wrath during its entire duration!

Edited March 21 by Kuya.6495

[Iustitian.9176]

18 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

Every player I've met that dies to a willbender in seconds has always stood there tanking hits for no reason.  Sometimes I even wonder if I was fighting a bot. It's really shocking when someone isn't even immobilized but they stand in whirling wrath during its entire duration!

You rly don't know how the actual willbender meta works 😄 i knew that after your first sarcastic, toxic comment here. 

With the 1200 range port and sword 5 and 2 (or hammer 5 and 3) there is not much counter play. You need a really fast reaction to evade or to stunbreak and remove immobilize. 

Actual WvW-Meta willbenders use Judge's Intervention, Whirling Light and Renewed Focus. For defense they take a meditation skill for condition removal or a shout skill for all boons or stability. That's the strong meta. Learn that.

[Kuya.6495]

25 minutes ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

You rly don't know how the actual willbender meta works 😄 i knew that after your first sarcastic, toxic comment here. 

With the 1200 range port and sword 5 and 2 (or hammer 5 and 3) there is not much counter play. You need a really fast reaction to evade or to stunbreak and remove immobilize. 

Actual WvW-Meta willbenders use Judge's Intervention, Whirling Light and Renewed Focus. For defense they take a meditation skill for condition removal or a shout skill for all boons or stability. That's the strong meta. Learn that.

See? You are amazing! It sounds like willbender isn't the problem and the problem here is that you're an expert!

 

Case solved 👍

Edited March 21 by Kuya.6495

[Titan.7853]

20 minutes ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

You rly don't know how the actual willbender meta works 😄 i knew that after your first sarcastic, toxic comment here. 

With the 1200 range port and sword 5 and 2 (or hammer 5 and 3) there is not much counter play. You need a really fast reaction to evade or to stunbreak and remove immobilize. 

Actual WvW-Meta willbenders use Judge's Intervention, Whirling Light and Renewed Focus. For defense they take a meditation skill for condition removal or a shout skill for all boons or stability. That's the strong meta. Learn that.

Surely this is a sarcastic thread made by someone who wants to troll us, or see Willbender nerfed.  What's next, going to the Thief forum and telling them how ashamed you are and asking how to survive attacks from a Deadeye?  Or what about Warrior's with Signet of Might that can one shot you with unblockable attacks?

Good luck surviving higher level pvp matches with meta Willbender.  While you're roaming, you're going to need to carefully assess whether you engage 1 v 1, or not, because often times you won't be the winner.  The same can be said for roaming in WvW, where Willbender is the strongest.

[Kuya.6495]

4 minutes ago, Titan.7853 said:

Surely this is a sarcastic thread made by someone who wants to troll us, or see Willbender nerfed.  What's next, going to the Thief forum and telling them how ashamed you are and asking how to survive attacks from a Deadeye?  Or what about Warrior's with Signet of Might that can one shot you with unblockable attacks?

Good luck surviving higher level pvp matches with meta Willbender.  While you're roaming, you're going to need to carefully assess whether you engage 1 v 1, or not, because often times you won't be the winner.  The same can be said for roaming in WvW, where Willbender is the strongest.

You would think that, if he's so knowledgeable about willbender and he's winning matches left and right, he would know how to beat another willbender himself, given his experience playing one.

But maybe he's playing 5D chess with us here and is just testing us. 🙏

Edited March 21 by Kuya.6495

[Iustitian.9176]

3 minutes ago, Titan.7853 said:

Surely this is a sarcastic thread made by someone who wants to troll us, or see Willbender nerfed.  What's next, going to the Thief forum and telling them how ashamed you are and asking how to survive attacks from a Deadeye?  Or what about Warrior's with Signet of Might that can one shot you with unblockable attacks?

Good luck surviving higher level pvp matches with meta Willbender.  While you're roaming, you're going to need to carefully assess whether you engage 1 v 1, or not, because often times you won't be the winner.  The same can be said for roaming in WvW, where Willbender is the strongest.

Yeah, i want to see willbender nerfed (adding a 1/2 second cast time and reduce range to 900 for Judge's Intervention would be enough). But before that i want to know how to counter the actual meta better, that's all. 

Deadeye is not such a big problem anymore and warriors can't one-shot (they don't even have a port or strong ranged attacks), but okay, pro player 😉 

I want to learn how to counter a strong WvW meta build and not to read comments of toxic PvP/WvW player's who cry because someone criticize their holy profession 😋

[Kuya.6495]

5 minutes ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

 

Deadeye is not such a big problem anymore and warriors can't one-shot 

So you were trolling us all along? I feel led astray

[Red Haired Savage.5430]

9 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Like always. 

👉Don't play PvP👈

👉Don't run around solo in WvW👈

👉Gain inner peace👈

Namaste. 🙏

[Iustitian.9176]

Just now, Kuya.6495 said:

So you were trolling us all along? I feel led astray

Your the biggest troll here 😄 i played willbender in WvW for 1 hour and you tell the people here i would be an expert 😋 but i know how to play against willbenders. 

So tell us what's your bests builds/tactics against willbenders and be helpful.

[Titan.7853]

20 minutes ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

Yeah, i want to see willbender nerfed (adding a 1/2 second cast time and reduce range to 900 for Judge's Intervention would be enough). But before that i want to know how to counter the actual meta better, that's all. 

Deadeye is not such a big problem anymore and warriors can't one-shot (they don't even have a port or strong ranged attacks), but okay, pro player 😉 

I want to learn how to counter a strong WvW meta build and not to read comments of toxic PvP/WvW player's who cry because someone criticize their holy profession 😋

Oh, so you're not ashamed now.  Now you are being honest with your motive, and that you want to see the spec that you don't even understand nerfed.

And you are calling me toxic? 

I prefer to play Dragon Hunter in PvP these days, not so much Willbender because I don't enjoy the glass cannon playstyle.  It's too fragile, too easily killed to be honest.  And yes, Warrior's can one shot in PvP.  The best player I came across recently was a warrior, and his Power Berserker build was dropping our team with one shot unblockable attacks due to Signet of Might.  So you had to learn to dodge, evade, and wait that out if you wanted to survive.

9 minutes ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

Your the biggest troll here 😄 i played willbender in WvW for 1 hour and you tell the people here i would be an expert 😋 but i know how to play against willbenders. 

So tell us what's your bests builds/tactics against willbenders and be helpful.

Apparently you are roaming around WvW like some sort of immortal god your first hour with Willbender.  So, what do we have to teach you?  I guess we should just nerf Willbender according to your suggestions.  Otherwise you would die in some encounters, and then you would learn yourself how other people counter your gameplay, but sadly that's not possible.

Edited March 21 by Titan.7853

[Kuya.6495]

It's kind of odd to make a thread saying you want advice when you:

1. Say you want the build nerfed. Presumably the advice would be moot if it were nerfed. 

2. Start off implying the build is so easy to play that you rarely lose matches playing it (which also implies you think it should be nerfed). If you're already playing the build, then you should already be learning how it works and how to counter it based on what gives you trouble when you're playing.

So you made a passive-aggressive thread and so you got a passive-aggressive response. 

Edited March 21 by Kuya.6495

[Iustitian.9176]

17 minutes ago, Kuya.6495 said:

It's kind of odd to make a thread saying you want advice when you:

1. Say you want the build nerfed. Presumably the advice would be moot if it were nerfed. 

2. Start off implying the build is so easy to play that you rarely lose matches playing it (which also implies you think it should be nerfed). If you're already playing the build, then you should already be learning how it works and how to counter it based on what gives you trouble when you're playing.

So you made a passive-aggressive thread and so you got a passive-aggressive response. 

Ok, with that answer i can finally do something. 

Fact is that it's very hard for non professional players (what are the most) to counter such a strong meta build. I'm not a pro player and perhaps i had luck when i tried the meta willbender to fight not many professional players (who know exactly how to counter it). 

So it would be nice to gets tips for us non-professional players to fight against that. No reason to be offensive, just an request for help.

[Titan.7853]

1 hour ago, Iustitian.9176 said:

Ok, with that answer i can finally do something. 

Fact is that it's very hard for non professional players (what are the most) to counter such a strong meta build. I'm not a pro player and perhaps i had luck when i tried the meta willbender to fight not many professional players (who know exactly how to counter it). 

So it would be nice to gets tips for us non-professional players to fight against that. No reason to be offensive, just an request for help.

I know it can seem that way to a casual player, but the thing is that it's really not hard to counter Willbender.

I remember when I first decided to really give WvW a try, and I was so happy I played a couple hundred games of PvP first.  Were it not for that, I would not have understood the importance of stability, stun breaks, self condi cleanses, etc.  Before that I'd take a meta dps build from snow crows and do a little PvE.  When I went into WvW like that, I died.  Go to Meta Battle or Hardstuck and experiment with some PvP builds in PvP.  

Guardians have a kitten health pool, so they rely on things like Aegis and Resolution to survive.  If a Willbender immobilizes you, you need to stun break immediately.  If they burst on you, dodge, evade, invul, etc. while you wait out their aegis from crashing courage.  Or CC them.  If you have an unblockable attack, use it.  Harrass them with your pet or Mech while you pepper them at range.  There are a million ways to counter Willbender, depending on the spec.  The best way to learn how to counter Willbender is to play it and see what gives you a hard time.  If you stick with it, I think you'll see that it's not a particularly good dualist build, especially if you take the current meta. 

Spend more than an hour roaming around WvW, and I think you'll sing a different tune.  Just wait until you try to dual some of the more experienced condi builds out there, or for that matter a hammer Cata, or even a good Weaver.  I have a friend who can one shot me with his Weaver, while I am in full celestial gear.  One shot at range too!

Edited March 21 by Titan.7853

[Gendalfs.7521]

After playing WvW rush as a poor Pmech. I would guess counter to OP is always other OP and that I call thieves: Stealth, teleport, stealth, teleport, stealth, teleport omg. Tho I never played thief but what I felt is amazing expierence on recieving end. Next I googled how to reveal them and guess what Mech doesnt have that skill lol. Sorry for rant guess wrong forum.

p.s. with willbenders its actually same feeling,123 and youre dead. If they fail they 123 teleport to Mars.

[Fabulous Faprio.2718]

Nerf willbender in wvw pls

 

[Saiyan.1704]

On 3/21/2024 at 2:03 AM, Iustitian.9176 said:

What are the best counters against Willbenders in WvW/PvP?

I played the actual meta by myself and after 1 hour i was ashamed how strong it is (i was). Most people got down after 1-3 seconds. Only a bunker condi druid got me (and a thief ran away successfully). 

Reaper that is condi bunker or demo's
A Holo that actually knows how to play holo
DD thief/DE
Spellbreaker
Cata
Druid/Soulbeast/trapper condi bunker core ranger (there's a dumb 1v1 unkillable core ranger build i've seen every blue moon)
A chrono that knows how to actually chrono/same for virtuoso.

I've played a full day of WvW and I can honestly say the meta there is pretty much no different than PvP. If you fight a genuine Plat player that's on the same skill level or higher, you're going to die 1v1 because Willbenders (and guards in general) have never been the best 1v1 classes... Willbenders are OK when it comes to +1 and dishing out a LOT of immediate damage bursts (most of it being AoE) while attempting to be mobile, but that's about it. It can't self-sustain itself as well as other meta classes such as ele/ranger/war/. Classes like Virtuoso and Necro can absorb an insane amount of blows before a WB realizes they're doing 0 damage.

TL;DR - we're not the best 1v1 class in the game AT ALL. If you're looking at the #1 hard counter, probably Cata and it's stupid hilarious how pathetic you feel when you go up against a good Cata. They straight up destroy WB's.

[Axelteas.7192]

On 3/24/2024 at 1:12 AM, Fabulous Faprio.2718 said:

Nerf willbender in wvw pls

 

 

[Titan.7853]

2 hours ago, Axelteas.7192 said:

 

This video doesn't really prove anything.  There was a loosely knit small group that he manager to burst on, with no healing or support.  All the ones who had celestial armor, or didn't stand their like morons, managed to survive just fine if you watch the video again.

This encounter is pretty much the ideal scenario for Willbender.  Crashing Courage, port in, try to get some kills on a loose group and leave before you get killed.  Try that again on a Zerg, he'd be lucky to be alive with his 18k health.  There were no videos of him getting killed on the way there, or desperately trying to escape a dual with a tough condi build.  The are no videos of him as a melee spec hiding behind a pillar, useless for minutes, trying to avoid dying from ranged classes or from getting pulled.  It's just a short clip of a Willbender bursting under optimal conditions, the one thing Willbender is really good at in WvW.

You can just as easily find videos of Hammer Cata or Holosmith bursting on people, and make the same argument.

[ArchonWing.9480]

11 hours ago, Titan.7853 said:

This video doesn't really prove anything. 

 

Oh it sure does, just not in the way people are expecting.

In 0:30, the berserker wakes up, and attacks for like 5 seconds, making 1/3 the WB's damage already and then goes back to sleep.

Granted this looks like a roaming build (note that the s/s set is completely unused) so the damage wouldn't be what it could be.

If one wants to drop some bombs, take out JI (no point teleporting to people when it's a w key fight). and put in sword of justice. Also it may be odd to say this because this is gw2, but also gotta 1111 harder; losing too much damage due to not autoattacking constantly. And also f1/whirling light needs to be spammed; it's just damage on the table you're leaving.

I mean I do love me some WB bursts, but it could be even better.

Edited March 27 by ArchonWing.9480