State of healing (Chrono) Mesmer

[Maria Murtor.7253]

I've tested the healing Mesmer in Fractals, Strikes and Dungeons today. So far, I played all other (healing) classes. Suffice to say, I'm a bit biased when it comes to healers. 
First, the good things: It's cool how easy you can swap between Alacrity and Quickness. Same goes for the wide variety of support skills: Mantras, Wells, Glamours – all super effective, if you know when and how to use them, especially Aegis and Stability. Rifle, of course, is a must. Second weapon set has some variety too with staff or shield off hand (playing staff, because I really like Chaos Storm, the extra Chaos Armor and the Illusions/Clones. CC is good, especially when you time it with your Continuum Split.  Tanking is also possible with shield and other block skills + Distortion, of course.
But then, there's the heart and the soul of this build: healing. And so far, I think healing Mesmer is, in terms of pure healing, the weakest of all classes (at least for me). It's not terrible. But it's hard to compare it to something like a Druid or the new healing Warrior. Compared to the healing power the Warrior staff provides, the rifle feels like a joke. There's no "oh sheit!-button, which you can use to unleash a giant burst heal or revive people (yeah, I guess there's Illusion of Life, but still …). I haven't tested it yet, but I have my doubts I could outheal Vale Guardian or Bone Skinner. And even if it's possible, it's probably not the best experience. Mirage has an Ambush skill with rifle, which provides some extra healing. But this comes with a cost: No Alacrity/Quickness. And that's a no go.

Now, I could be totally wrong. Like I said: Haven't tested it much. Made it through T4 Fractals + Recs, Strike missions and a couple of dungeons. It was decent. The high Aegis and Stability accessibility  helped a lot. But compared to any other healer, it was rather stressful, especially combined with providing Alacrity (Quickness is way easier to maintain). 

What's your experience? Any advice?

 

 

[AliamRationem.5172]

I dunno.  My guild is slowly being taken over by mesmers.  Between chrono and virt, mesmer seems highly competitive in every role and arguably the outright best in a lot of cases.  And of course it has about the best overall utility of any class, too.  It doesn't hurt that most people find them fun and interesting to play, too.  Especially chrono.

Edited March 29 by AliamRationem.5172

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

Your "oh shet" panic button and burst heal is the Heal Mantra, specifically the charges. Pressing a heal Mantra charge will trigger Restorative Mantras twice due to Mender's Purity (the minor trait before it). I use this in tandem with Relic of the Flock, which adds another 2720 heal. I don't know about you, but my rule of thumb is that if people still die after I give them [(1500 x 2 + 2720) x 125%] = 7150 HP (15% increase from trait, 10% increase from Transference Sigil) then that's definitely no longer a healer issue. And that heal burst is stronger than any other classes except for Druid. 

Rifle 5 also give a big barrier, big enough that it makes me question why you can't heal through Vale Guardian. You don't need to heal when the barrier eats up all the damage. 

What used to be a Heal Mesmer's pain point, sustained healing and ranged healing, are both also solved by the Rifle. Unless people intentionally not dodging, which only God can help them, I'm surprised you can't heal people in Boneskinner. I've found that usually the burst is enough to counter the jump/crash, and barrier takes care of pulsing damage.  

The weak point of a Heal Mesmer, or Heal Chrono, is that there's no downstate management. Usually if a wipe is imminent, it's 99% certain since a Heal Mesmer can't rez people fast enough and turn the situation around. No, Illusion of Life is a joke in the content you specify. Unless the encounter has ads, giving someone 15 more seconds to walk around before becoming fully defeated is useless since they can't kill the boss alone to become fully revived. And the a Heal Mesmer's best rez tool, Medic's Feedback, directly competes with the burst heal and has to be ignored in favor for Restorative Mantras.

Personally I wish they moved Medic's Feedback to the 2nd tier and replace Warden's Feedback (this is such a useless trait).

 

[Micah.3789]

1 hour ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

it's hard to compare it to something like a Druid or the new healing Warrior. Compared to the healing power the Warrior staff provides, the rifle feels like a joke. There's no "oh sheit!-button, which you can use to unleash a giant burst heal or revive people (yeah, I guess there's Illusion of Life, but still …). I haven't tested it yet, but I have my doubts I could outheal Vale Guardian or Bone Skinner.

Mesmer healing potency is possibly the highest in the game right now, but it's spread between a multitude of small procs and skills. You have to really understand where all your healing is coming from and how to time it which requires a lot of thought and input. Compare that to something like warrior or druid where it's mostly directly responsive skills; you press the big button, you get the big heal.

I main a heal mirage and use 2x staff and celestial gear, but I still have no problem healing BS or VG. So certainly a chrono with rifle and heal stats should be a breeze.

Oh and you shouldn't directly compare weapons on different classes. Warrior has pretty poor healing without staff, whereas mesmer can heal VERY well without rifle. So if rifle was comparably powerful, the whole mesmer heal kit would be overtuned.

2 minutes ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Your "oh shet" panic button and burst heal is the Heal Mantra, specifically the charges. Pressing a heal Mantra charge will trigger Restorative Mantras twice due to Mender's Purity (the minor trait before it). I use this in tandem with Relic of the Flock, which adds another 2720 heal. I don't know about you, but my rule of thumb is that if people still die after I give them [(1500 x 2 + 2720) x 125%] = 7150 HP (15% increase from trait, 10% increase from Transference Sigil) then that's definitely no longer a healer issue. And that heal burst is stronger than any other classes except for Druid. 

Beat me to it, but I have a bit to add. If you full cast Mantra of Recovery, immediately burn all its charges and synchronize with other instant cast heals, you can generate absolutely massive burst. I'll use VG as an example (cele/trapper mirage heal):

I'll start casting MoRecovery when I see the green circle getting tight and shatter just after the attack goes off, but before I'm finished casting (don't want to waste clones). After MoRecovery, I'll cast Phantasmal Warlock while burning its charges and MoPain's as well. After the last MoRecovery charge, shatter again right after with full clones.

So that's MoRecovery, a Flock proc, 2x shatters, 5x illusions, and 6x restorative mantras. So, within 1-2s of the green detonation, I'm doing a total of 22,544 outgoing healing even with only 739 healing power. And that WHOLE thing can be done again every 10s!

Imagine running actual healing stats AND having rifle to follow up with. Point is, if anyone feels that chrono (mesmer) healing is too low, it's certainly just a skill issue. Though an understandable one, because it does have a much higher skill floor than most other healers.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

When it comes to healing the majority of your healing is regeneration (this is for most healers). If things are being done correctly, there is no real need for an oh crap button. Healing is really strong on a chrono to, so not sure how you were having trouble. Rifle 2 is basically perma regen, with rifle 5 giving barrier. Relic of the Flock, which is the preferred relic on a chrono, means even more barrier when you use your mantra of recovery, which in technical terms is part of your rotation. You also heal when you shatter clones, and when a well expires. Rifle 1 is also an AoE heal in a small area so as long as you are shooting everyone is getting something.

Well of Action should basically always be on your bar, which gives might and fury to everyone within it. Mantra of Concentration gives aegis and stability on its initial cast and is pretty much your perma stab button and if you want to double down on that using Well of Precognition to. With chrono mesmer it should be basically nearly impossible your team should be getting CC'd again thanks to all the stability. With a Rifle Chrono you can practically stand still in most situations and not have to worry about a lot of mechanics or effects thanks to all the stability, regen, protection, and healing the chrono does. There are a few mechanics you need to move around with chrono but those are the instant death ones. I can stand still in the final phase of claw, for instance, without worry during the pizza phase.

Of course, a startling trend I've been noticing lately in fractals is that a lot of people seem to be buying their way up to it (ie buying up the gear and agony at the very least) but have no real knowledge of the fractal. Been seeing more and more people with 200+ agony resistance and legendary gear "they worked their butt off for." Last night had to watch someone claim to be a HAM but never once used mace/shield, and used Elixir Gun the entire time and kept trying to BS their way and claiming they were raiders apart of a static raid group (maybe a carry but definitely not someone who is the healer). Made it worse is I told them I would quick heal then they tried to claim I said I would quick DPS which is a trend lately the past few days that's been annoying me. Also didn't help these two "raid" experts kept dodging around and never once utilized my buffs or effects.

Edited March 29 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Maria Murtor.7253]

Oh, I haven't had trouble or so. Actually, it was okay. Yesterday was Siren's Reef T4, and I actually was the healer for a group which had 2 people never played it before. And, yeah: We did it first try. The perma stability and the condi cleanse were both super helpful. But then, you have scenarios like standing at the Urban Fractal gate: 5 enemies breathing down your neck, 2 players already pretty low on health while walking to Dulfy and also the oil pots raining on you down. Same goes for that moment when you're in the Cliffside Fractal and trying to break the chest seal: Heavy pressure from all sides. When my mantras need to recharge and there are too many enemies for Aegis, it feel like a moment of helplessness. And I already hate it on other healers to sacrifice your own healing skill to help others.

I do see all the little sources of healing you got. Like I said: These "oh sheit" moments are the scenarios which worry me. When someone is low or down and the pressure is high. Other healing professions can deal better with their res skills or managing range healing better. Other thing is, what I mentioned, to maintain Alacrity. Trash mobs often die super quickly, so I don't even have the chance to shatter 2 or more illusions (it's okay on bosses).

I'm still trying. Like I said: Haven't had much time to practice, and I'm already done with my raids this week. I see the high and wide variety of utility the Mesmer has. But right now I struggle a bit with the question: What can the Mesmer do better (in terms of healing/supporting) than other healers in the game? Why should I bring a Mesmer for, let's say, Harvest Temple instead a Revenant? Or for Raids/Fractals in general?

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

26 minutes ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

 But then, you have scenarios like standing at the Urban Fractal gate: 5 enemies breathing down your neck, 2 players already pretty low on health while walking to Dulfy and also the oil pots raining on you down. Same goes for that moment when you're in the Cliffside Fractal and trying to break the chest seal: Heavy pressure from all sides. When my mantras need to recharge and there are too many enemies for Aegis, it feel like a moment of helplessness. And I already hate it on other healers to sacrifice your own healing skill to help others.

I do see all the little sources of healing you got. Like I said: These "oh sheit" moments are the scenarios which worry me. 

Well going to tell you now, you're panicking yourself and this is causing you to overthink the scenarios then. Never once with Urban Battleground have I felt stressed since Chrono got rifle. I don't feel stressed in cliffside or any fractal, and I literally stand in place in most of those scenarios. The only time I start getting stressed these days, and it's more annoyed than anything, is when people jump in clearly no clue what to do and just dance around instead of getting with the group to maximize buffs and heals. But then I adopt the "you can't fix stupid" ideal and if people don't hang around the healer, then they will have to handle themselves and learn the hard way. You literally paint the area in heals and buffs and with Well of Precognition you basically kill most stress moments easily thanks to three pulses of aegis.

I've played multiple healers and Chronomancer is perhaps the least stressful of all of them. I don't have to concern myself with pet mechanics, I don't have to worry about if I have to sac useful abilities just to keep up the one boon everyone wants, I don't need to worry if I have stab or not so I don't get kicked around all the time (scourge) and I certainly don't feel the need to have to burn dodge all that often because I can literally ignore a lot of mechanics in fights now.

If you are feeling you need an super oh crap button, then it's likely the people not sticking by you as you play, and are attempting to solo the fractal instead of playing as a team, and in that instance, them going downstate is likely going to be a better teacher than you stressing over their health bars honestly. Chrono has a lot of healing and a lot of abilities to mitigate mass amounts of damage, so it already has a lot of "oh crap" built in. Just gotta focus on proper rotations and stop concerning with people too busy being the 'hero" instead of being the team player. And if you feel your health is going down too fast might I suggest taking up minstrel's and giver's gear instead of harrier's because rifle and heal chrono in general does so little damage the power stat is a waste.

Edited March 29 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Micah.3789]

7 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

the majority of your healing is regeneration (this is for most healers). If things are being done correctly, there is no real need for an oh crap button. [...] Relic of the Flock, which is the preferred relic on a chrono [...]

This is just not true. Regen is at most 25% of a healer's potential hps (assuming max bonuses to regen potency) and that would require every single tick getting full effect. Realistically, if regen is doing more than 10-15% of your healing, you aren't giving enough input and your group is spending too much time in an unhealthy state. If regen were actually so powerful, Relic of Dwayna would be the default on every healer, but as you mentioned yourself, it's not. Perhaps you're looking at the overall healing in the tooltip instead of considering the actual healing per tick? Regen is easily overcapped and pretty much never actually generates the healing indicated in the tooltip.

While it's true that most content is pretty laid back in terms of healing, there are absolutely encounters with more intensity. Maybe "oh crap button" isn't the most accurate term, but high volume responsive healing is required (or at least preferred) for quite a few encounters. 

6 hours ago, Maria Murtor.7253 said:

Other healing professions can deal better with their res skills or managing range healing better. Other thing is, what I mentioned, to maintain Alacrity. Trash mobs often die super quickly, so I don't even have the chance to shatter 2 or more illusions (it's okay on bosses).

[...] What can the Mesmer do better (in terms of healing/supporting) than other healers in the game? Why should I bring a Mesmer for, let's say, Harvest Temple instead a Revenant? Or for Raids/Fractals in general?

First, "res skills" are very much a crutch and aren't really a factor for healing builds except when trying to carry players or compensate for not healing. That said, chrono has enough healing to forgo Restorative Mantras and instead take Medic's Feedback to turn it into a revive. Additionally, rifle healing can revive allies when targeting them and barrier can prevent bleed out.

As for alacrity, are you alac healing or referring to the self alacrity from Flow of Time? If the latter, you should be getting enough from your alacdps combined with your occasional shatters. If you're alac healing, you can rely significantly on phantasms for your quick/alac generation. Skills like Phantasmal Warlock (staff) even produce two.

Just like any other class, chrono isn't going to be the stand out choice for everything, but it does have its strengths. For starters, it has incredible utility tools: portal, reflect dome, mass invisibility, and incredible cc. Combine that with a potent spread of support effects like aegis, stability, and incredible condi cleansing to rival even Healbrand. To top it all off, heal potency to rival even druid. Simply put, chrono is the all rounder. It's not bad at anything except maintaining boons without a target, and it's very good at everything else. It can even swap between quick/alac! It's really the only healer that can comfortably be used in any PvE content, but it's not necessarily claiming the title of "best" in any in particular.

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

19 minutes ago, Micah.3789 said:

This is just not true. Regen is at most 25% of a healer's potential hps (assuming max bonuses to regen potency) and that would require every single tick getting full effect. Realistically, if regen is doing more than 10-15% of your healing, you aren't giving enough input and your group is spending too much time in an unhealthy state. If regen were actually so powerful, Relic of Dwayna would be the default on every healer, but as you mentioned yourself, it's not. Perhaps you're looking at the overall healing in the tooltip instead of considering the actual healing per tick? Regen is easily overcapped and pretty much never actually generates the healing indicated in the tooltip.

While it's true that most content is pretty laid back in terms of healing, there are absolutely encounters with more intensity. Maybe "oh crap button" isn't the most accurate term, but high volume responsive healing is required (or at least preferred) for quite a few encounters.

Most encounters are laid back and no, I am not reading tooltips I am reading things like arc. Regen is a huge part of your healing. But majority of encounters in GW2 are laid back and not really in a situation of "Oh crap" and even those that are are still pretty laid back. If regen wasn't a big deal then mechanist would be in huge trouble similar for herald. Regen with protection can amount for large numbers and if you are doing your rotations decently there should be very few moments you are actually doing an "oh crap". And I am talking about fights that typically people rage at like the giant in High Top during the sandstorm stand there and eat every shot and not even stress about it. 

Regen is a huge part since it ticks every second and in most kits you do not have heal on every move you do. Dwayna is not chosen because it only affects regen over picking something like monk which gives over all healing. Flock is prefered on chrono because it gives barrier since you are likely to use Mantra of Recovery which means you have easy access to using your heal skill regularly, but if you don't use mantra of recovery then it's better to use another relic instead like monk for healing or relic of Karakosa if you use a lot of blast finishers, like mechanists tend to do a lot of.

Regeneration is definitely more than the 10% to 15% your suggesting.

Edited March 29 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[Micah.3789]

8 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

I am not reading tooltips I am reading things like arc.

Your own logs will be skewed by your rotation preferences. To be clear, I'm not saying regen CAN'T do significant amounts of your healing. I'm saying that if you're letting it, you aren't actively using your other heals effectively. Technically speaking, you could heal some content with no other healing but regen, but it would be very uncomfortable and force your group to play more defensively. Simply put, the more you rely on regen, the less safety you're actually providing. 

8 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

Regeneration is definitely more than the 10% to 15% your suggesting.

Again, I'm not claiming it can't do more than 10-15% of your overall healing. I'm suggesting that if it's doing more than that for you, you're likely not utilizing your other heals effectively. To prove my point I'll list the hps values of some of the more common chrono heal skills compared to regen. The values listed are per person. For skills, it's assumed they're being used on CD which of course is just the maximum possible, but not completely realistic. Similarly, the value for regen assumes all ticks are received at full value which is even less realistic. I'm using full minstrel for these calculations, so 1572 healing power and 35% outgoing healing modifier.

• Regeneration: 440 hps
• Friendly Fire: 1,725 hps 
• Journey: 905 hps
• Abstraction (Inspiring Imagery): 681 hps

These are just the rifle skills since mantra, clone, and shatter healing have highly variable CDs. They do contribute massive amounts of healing, though; If you use Mantra of Recovery on CD with the charges as I do, you'd generate a total of 18,825 healing between the mantra itself and the procs of Restorative Mantra x4, Illusionary Inspiration x3 (with Ego Restoration), and the Relic of the Flock. That's 18,825 about every 10s. That alone is potentially 1,882 hps and much more reliable than regen. Regen's potential is clearly dwarfed by other sources of healing. If it's doing...

17 hours ago, Ravenwulfe.5360 said:

the majority of your healing

... then you aren't pressing your buttons.

 

[Mike.7983]

Rifle 2 +3/detonate and heal mantra/flock relics like 10k+ burst in under 2? seconds.  Mesmer has insane healing burst now. Prob 1 of the top healers. Here is a golem test room pulsing the extreme damage aoe no boons mashing fast aoe burst heal.   https://streamable.com/m9cjug

[HotDelirium.7984]

On 3/28/2024 at 8:39 PM, Micah.3789 said:

Mesmer healing potency is possibly the highest in the game right now, but it's spread between a multitude of small procs and skills. You have to really understand where all your healing is coming from and how to time it which requires a lot of thought and input. Compare that to something like warrior or druid where it's mostly directly responsive skills; you press the big button, you get the big heal.

I main a heal mirage and use 2x staff and celestial gear, but I still have no problem healing BS or VG. So certainly a chrono with rifle and heal stats should be a breeze.

Oh and you shouldn't directly compare weapons on different classes. Warrior has pretty poor healing without staff, whereas mesmer can heal VERY well without rifle. So if rifle was comparably powerful, the whole mesmer heal kit would be overtuned.

Beat me to it, but I have a bit to add. If you full cast Mantra of Recovery, immediately burn all its charges and synchronize with other instant cast heals, you can generate absolutely massive burst. I'll use VG as an example (cele/trapper mirage heal):

I'll start casting MoRecovery when I see the green circle getting tight and shatter just after the attack goes off, but before I'm finished casting (don't want to waste clones). After MoRecovery, I'll cast Phantasmal Warlock while burning its charges and MoPain's as well. After the last MoRecovery charge, shatter again right after with full clones.

So that's MoRecovery, a Flock proc, 2x shatters, 5x illusions, and 6x restorative mantras. So, within 1-2s of the green detonation, I'm doing a total of 22,544 outgoing healing even with only 739 healing power. And that WHOLE thing can be done again every 10s!

Imagine running actual healing stats AND having rifle to follow up with. Point is, if anyone feels that chrono (mesmer) healing is too low, it's certainly just a skill issue. Though an understandable one, because it does have a much higher skill floor than most other healers.

Do you and/or teammates find the rifle ambush obnoxious?

I assume the pure heal numbers with the right gear and traits on rifle mirage is good enough but with the loss of chrono's alac and quickness is it viable? I know dps can have alac and quick in some groups but it does seem they prefer qheal and aheal.

[Geronmy.3298]

2 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Do you and/or teammates find the rifle ambush obnoxious?

I assume the pure heal numbers with the right gear and traits on rifle mirage is good enough but with the loss of chrono's alac and quickness is it viable? I know dps can have alac and quick in some groups but it does seem they prefer qheal and aheal.

Is not viable at all. Rifle's ambush is just plain awful to use and gives no boons whatsoever. It's even worse on your clones.

[Micah.3789]

2 hours ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

Do you and/or teammates find the rifle ambush obnoxious?

I assume the pure heal numbers with the right gear and traits on rifle mirage is good enough but with the loss of chrono's alac and quickness is it viable? I know dps can have alac and quick in some groups but it does seem they prefer qheal and aheal.

I don't use rifle at all so I don't have experience with the ambush. In my opinion it's ridiculous to even try.

Mirage is inferior to chrono as a healer in almost every way except for one major exception: it can do substantial damage while still providing full support. If you wanted to use rifle and heal as a mirage you'd still have to take staff as well to provide alacrity. To have any hope of maintaining it, you'd need to swap on CD and maximize concentration/BD. If you do all that you lose out on mirage's damage potential and just end up with a significantly worse and harder version of heal chrono. It would be technically manageable, but would be pretty painful to play.

Instead, I play with staff x2 to comfortably maintain alacrity even in celestial gear. The healing from trait synergies alone is more than enough for any PvE content in the game even with this lower healing power. In fact, it's pretty comparable to some of the more modest output meta healers, except that it's all PBAoE healing. It's a pretty sweaty rotation and requires a very solid understanding of all your procs and synergies, but it can provide full support while still benching 15-18k dps depending on the exact loadout. That's the only way I see mirage heal actually being a consideration. 

Alacrity on all ambush skills would completely fix this problem, but until then I wouldn't entertain a pure healing (non-hybrid) mirage healer.

[HotDelirium.7984]

5 hours ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

Is not viable at all. Rifle's ambush is just plain awful to use and gives no boons whatsoever. It's even worse on your clones.

c'mon now, if you're going to critique you gotta be accurate- rifle ambush gives vigor and with mantle trait it gives fury.

[ZephidelGRS.9520]

1 hour ago, HotDelirium.7984 said:

c'mon now, if you're going to critique you gotta be accurate- rifle ambush gives vigor and with mantle trait it gives fury.

Assuming this is asking about PvE, then there’s no such thing as a “pure” healer role in the group (”pure” as in a healer that brings neither Alac or Quick).

This is because yes, while a DPS can be hybrid and bring either of those so in theory you can have a team composition of 2 boon DPS and 1 pure healer, but the total DPS output of this team is not optimal, so several things can happen:  

- First, this team will take longer to clear an encounter, in which some of the mechanics can be lethal and if prolonged can make room for individual errors and decrease the group’s overall success chance. No matter how powerful the healer is, they can’t out-heal a deadly mechanics, and so having them in the team doesn’t immediately offset any mechanical errors.

- Second, if the encounter in question has a timed DPS check, then this group is very likely not going to meet said DPS check. While calling a healer as a dead weight is wrong, most healers already don’t do any damage and stunting 2 DPS and cutting the group’s total DPS further to cover for that healer is wrong. 

This is why the recommended team composition is 1 aheal or qheal, 1 boon DPS to cover whatever the healer doesn’t have, and the rest are DPS. This is also why a Mirage heal build doesn’t exist yet, because it doesn’t bring Alac or Quick. Now technically you can make it happen by bringing Staff, but it’s very clunky and like Micah said above you’re just playing a worse Chrono by juggling buttons for nothing better advantage-wise. 

If you have a close group of friends and you guys are confident enough to be cool with playing whatever you want then a Rifle Mirage healer is still more functional than a lot of other healing builds, it just doesn’t bring the 2 boons above. But for pug groups then please stay away from it, it’ll keep you out of trouble. 

Lastly, do note that Anet is aware of this Mirage heal problem and did say during the new weapon livestream that the Fury is just a placeholder while they’re working on other ideas to realize Mirage heal. So do be expected that in future patches they might give Rifle Mirage its Alac or Quick and make the build become viable. It’s just not for now.

[Micah.3789]

9 hours ago, Micah.3789 said:

until then I wouldn't entertain a pure healing (non-hybrid) mirage healer.

2 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

there’s no such thing as a “pure” healer role in the group (”pure” as in a healer that brings neither Alac or Quick).

This is because yes, while a DPS can be hybrid and bring either of those so in theory you can have a team composition of 2 boon DPS and 1 pure healer, but the total DPS output of this team is not optimal

Just for clarity: When I said "hybrid" vs. "pure healing" I'm referring to damage/heal hybrid. As you mentioned, the PvE meta assumes that any healer is bringing either alac or quick and that goes for "hybrid" healers too. 

2 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

This is also why a Mirage heal build doesn’t exist yet, because it doesn’t bring Alac or Quick. Now technically you can make it happen by bringing Staff, but it’s very clunky and like Micah said above you’re just playing a worse Chrono by juggling buttons for nothing better advantage-wise. 

That's not quite what I meant. What I said was specifically in reference to someone who wanted to take a rifle on mirage healer, which is ill advised. But you're implying that mesmer can't heal without rifle, which is objectively false. There is a mirage healer build (staff x2), but it's not posted for the same reason there isn't an alacdps mirage on snowcrows right now: it's outshined by other builds without a redeeming quality that the meta favors. The damage potential, and therefore massive overall potency, could be considered a redeeming quality, but most community heal builds push maximum healing potency even when it's beyond redundant to the point of being wasteful.

It's also important to remember that community posted builds are not exhaustive. Builds are posted because someone cared to make it for their own personal reasons. Many potentially useful builds are left unexplored simply because they have no sponsor. I could certainly post a celestial hybrid heal mirage build, as it is incredibly potent to the point of carrying others, but I've determined that the skill floor is simply to high to be of value to the general community. So I instead share my knowledge more directly with those who are interested.

[HotDelirium.7984]

21 hours ago, ZephidelGRS.9520 said:

Assuming this is asking about PvE, then there’s no such thing as a “pure” healer role in the group (”pure” as in a healer that brings neither Alac or Quick).

This is because yes, while a DPS can be hybrid and bring either of those so in theory you can have a team composition of 2 boon DPS and 1 pure healer, but the total DPS output of this team is not optimal, so several things can happen:  

- First, this team will take longer to clear an encounter, in which some of the mechanics can be lethal and if prolonged can make room for individual errors and decrease the group’s overall success chance. No matter how powerful the healer is, they can’t out-heal a deadly mechanics, and so having them in the team doesn’t immediately offset any mechanical errors.

- Second, if the encounter in question has a timed DPS check, then this group is very likely not going to meet said DPS check. While calling a healer as a dead weight is wrong, most healers already don’t do any damage and stunting 2 DPS and cutting the group’s total DPS further to cover for that healer is wrong. 

This is why the recommended team composition is 1 aheal or qheal, 1 boon DPS to cover whatever the healer doesn’t have, and the rest are DPS. This is also why a Mirage heal build doesn’t exist yet, because it doesn’t bring Alac or Quick. Now technically you can make it happen by bringing Staff, but it’s very clunky and like Micah said above you’re just playing a worse Chrono by juggling buttons for nothing better advantage-wise. 

If you have a close group of friends and you guys are confident enough to be cool with playing whatever you want then a Rifle Mirage healer is still more functional than a lot of other healing builds, it just doesn’t bring the 2 boons above. But for pug groups then please stay away from it, it’ll keep you out of trouble. 

Lastly, do note that Anet is aware of this Mirage heal problem and did say during the new weapon livestream that the Fury is just a placeholder while they’re working on other ideas to realize Mirage heal. So do be expected that in future patches they might give Rifle Mirage its Alac or Quick and make the build become viable. It’s just not for now.

Good to know about the placeholder rifle ambush. However, even if it did something cool like "spray" chaotic aura on teammates it still doesn't have alac or quickness. I suppose they could break up chrono and mirage and give one to each but now you're doing some butchering. Mirage has their condi trait which would be useless so they really would have to reduce both specs to optimize healing and boons IF they wanted both specs to equally be viable. They are in a tough spot 😕

[Mell.4873]

Just pointing it out but regular Rifle Chronomancer can go hybrid with full power gear and either both Chaos/Inspiration or just one depending on your other weapon. 

The number of phantasms and shatter you can produce should give you full boon uptime with the help of some food or even Sigils. Then the Rifle alone can push out about 2k HPS along with some burst. 

Edited April 1 by Mell.4873

[Micah.3789]

5 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

Just pointing it out but regular Rifle Chronomancer can go hybrid with full power gear and either both Chaos or Inspiration or just one depending on your other weapon. 

The number of phantasms and shatter you can produce should give you full boon uptime with the help of some food or even Sigils. Then the rifle alone can push out about 2k HPS along with some burst. 

I'm all for breaking away from the meta, but that approach would do less than 1/3rd the healing and damage of the respective meta chrono builds. Plus, it would have much less reliable boons than the heal build. I'm not trying to play build police here, but you'd be intentionally choosing a playstyle that significantly lacks potency. 

For perspective, I calculated the maximum possible healing your build could do assuming no over-healing and perfectly utilized CDs and got ~1,600 hps per person. That may seem decent without a basis for comparison, but I did the same calculation for my celestial hybrid mirage and got ~3100 hps per person. To be clear, this is purely theoretical max healing which isn't realistic, but it does give us an objective statistic to gauge relative potency. At barely more than half the healing of a hybrid healer, your build will often be a liability to your party unless others compensate and sacrifice their own potential. 

Ok, but maybe the damage gained could justify the sacrifices. Again for perspective, my build has a 15k dps bench while full healing, and technically does a bit more in real combat with confusion. Your build wouldn't get much over 10k dps even if you sacrificed even more boons/support by taking a dps trait line.

I can see how you might technically have some success in low pressure encounters, but it's disingenuous to suggest this is a reasonably effective build option. If you don't believe me, test it out on the golem with at least moderate damage turned on. Better yet, take it into a boneskinner pug and come back with a log of how it went.

 

Edited April 1 by Micah.3789

[Mell.4873]

1 hour ago, Micah.3789 said:

I'm all for breaking away from the meta, but that approach would do less than 1/3rd the healing and damage of the respective meta chrono builds. Plus, it would have much less reliable boons than the heal build. I'm not trying to play build police here, but you'd be intentionally choosing a playstyle that significantly lacks potency. 

For perspective, I calculated the maximum possible healing your build could do assuming no over-healing and perfectly utilized CDs: ~1,750 hps per person. That may seem decent without a basis for comparison, but I did the same calculation for my celestial hybrid mirage and got ~3700 hps per person. To be clear, this is purely theoretical max healing which isn't realistic, but it does give us an objective statistic to gauge relative potency. At less than half the healing of even a hybrid healer, your build will often be liability to your party unless others compensate and sacrifice their own potential. 

Ok, but maybe the damage gained could justify the sacrifices. Again for perspective, my build has a 15k dps bench while full healing, and technically does a bit more in real combat with confusion. Your build wouldn't get much over 10k dps even if you sacrificed even more boons/support by taking a dps trait line.

I can see how you might have some success in low pressure encounters, but it's disingenuous to suggest this a reasonably effective build option. If you don't believe me, test it out on the golem with at least moderate damage turned on. Better yet, take it into a boneskinner pug and come back with a log of how it went.

 

I keep this build only on the back burner for easy content that I am expected to heal like recommended fractals or certain easier ones. 

You are right about the damage, but the rotation is alot simpler and it is power so not much ramp up. 

I even use an Inspiration Virtuoso for most Strikes with double feedback due to many one shot mechanics. 

 

Edited April 1 by Mell.4873

[GGCKT.7590]

My 2 cts as newbie healer:

I started healchrono with scepter/shield and staff, then switched to rifle/staff and riffle/scepter. Before i was your usual cvirt, as i play mesmer main for years.

Played fractals, raids and strikes cm with no complaint. Healing through Boneskinner, VG, cleansing Slothasor, tanking Deimos and Dhuum, actually a smooth experience imo.

[Micah.3789]

11 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I keep this build only on the back burner for easy content that I am expected to heal like recommended fractals or certain easier ones. 

You are right about the damage, but the rotation is alot simpler and it is power so not much ramp up. 

I even use an Inspiration Virtuoso for most Strikes with double feedback due to many one shot mechanics. 

 

I see. So when you know you won't need much healing, you try to bring a bit more damage. Still, in that scenario you'd be better off with a boondps bringing a bit of healing than trying to squeak out more damage on an otherwise full healer. If you're interested in boondps that can bring enough healing for low pressure content I can think of a few that might be more effective. Off the top of my head:

• Alac specter with wells and scepter. Take traversing dusk and spam scepter/pistol 3 for damage/healing. Typical scepter/dagger when healing isn't needed.
• Pwr quick untamed with maces and nature magic/spirits. 
• Pwr alac willbender with hammer and glacial heart. Even better with relic of karakosa.
• Pwr alac mechanist with med kit for emergencies.
• Pwr quick scapper with relic of karakosa. Med kit for emergencies.

There are possibly more, but in all these cases the build makes very minor sacrifices compared to typical boondps to gain significant healing and support functions. They're also all on the higher end for might generation which is important if you don't take a typical healer. 

[Mell.4873]

32 minutes ago, Micah.3789 said:

I see. So when you know you won't need much healing, you try to bring a bit more damage. Still, in that scenario you'd be better off with a boondps bringing a bit of healing than trying to squeak out more damage on an otherwise full healer. If you're interested in boondps that can bring enough healing for low pressure content I can think of a few that might be more effective. Off the top of my head:

• Alac specter with wells and scepter. Take traversing dusk and spam scepter/pistol 3 for damage/healing. Typical scepter/dagger when healing isn't needed.
• Pwr quick untamed with maces and nature magic/spirits. 
• Pwr alac willbender with hammer and glacial heart. Even better with relic of karakosa.
• Pwr alac mechanist with med kit for emergencies.
• Pwr quick scapper with relic of karakosa. Med kit for emergencies.

There are possibly more, but in all these cases the build makes very minor sacrifices compared to typical boondps to gain significant healing and support functions. They're also all on the higher end for might generation which is important if you don't take a typical healer. 

I mean essentially it is Boon DPS with a little healing. 

I don't have Legendary Light Armor since I have so many left over sets from before Legendary got introduced (like 10). 

My Boon DPS Chrono is Assassins/Berserkers while my Healer Boon DPS is mostly Marauders. You really don't need much boon duration or even healing power especially for Rifle; food or Sigils/Relics should be enough. 

Edited April 1 by Mell.4873

[Micah.3789]

2 hours ago, Mell.4873 said:

I mean essentially it is Boon DPS with a little healing. 

I don't have Legendary Light Armor since I have so many left over sets from before Legendary got introduced (like 10). 

My Boon DPS Chrono is Assassins/Berserkers while my Healer Boon DPS is mostly Marauders. You really don't need much boon duration or even healing power especially for Rifle; food or Sigils/Relics should be enough. 

I don't want to keep derailing this post, but a <10k dps bench is no where close to being a boondps. The builds I'm suggesting all can do around 24-28k dps which is just a little shy of the typical 32-36k that meta boondps builds typically do. Plus they'll do similar healing to your build

If you're going to publicly theory craft and make build suggestions, you really should have more integrity about it. Ignorant or not, misusing build terms and making disingenuous claims muddies the water for those of us who want to have competent discussions and you may even mislead some of those less knowledgeable.