Is there a reason to play Mirage when Virtuoso & Chrono exist?

[Triptaminas.4789]

All the "dueling" and "non pve spec" is massive cope, we play mirrage not because it performs better than other elite specs(or even core for that matter) but because it is fun to play with.

Just look at the traitlines, it's biggest mess gw2 ever seen, synergies non existant and effects more laughable with every patch, traitlines such as speed of sand being worst grandmaster non selectable traitlines in the game, stop the cope, just accept that its bottom of the barrel spec locked in clown cage alongside bladesworn instead of being some strong niche 300iq spec. After recent humiliation with dune cloak rework it lost its only superiority cope in mesmer hierarchy tree(cloak was prioritizing stab strip).

I love my mirage, it really makes game fun, but it underperforms against other mesmers(including core) in damage, sustain, utility.. only outperforms in alac dispension while jailed in staff/staff autopilot. 

Inb4 muh golem benchmarks show it can reach #10 in 400 perfect step rotation and just slightly underperform afk virt.

Cope, cope never changes.

[Geronmy.3298]

On 4/26/2024 at 11:13 PM, Triptaminas.4789 said:

All the "dueling" and "non pve spec" is massive cope, we play mirrage not because it performs better than other elite specs(or even core for that matter) but because it is fun to play with.

Just look at the traitlines, it's biggest mess gw2 ever seen, synergies non existant and effects more laughable with every patch, traitlines such as speed of sand being worst grandmaster non selectable traitlines in the game, stop the cope, just accept that its bottom of the barrel spec locked in clown cage alongside bladesworn instead of being some strong niche 300iq spec. After recent humiliation with dune cloak rework it lost its only superiority cope in mesmer hierarchy tree(cloak was prioritizing stab strip).

I love my mirage, it really makes game fun, but it underperforms against other mesmers(including core) in damage, sustain, utility.. only outperforms in alac dispension while jailed in staff/staff autopilot. 

Inb4 muh golem benchmarks show it can reach #10 in 400 perfect step rotation and just slightly underperform afk virt.

Cope, cope never changes.

Wouldn't have said better myself.

Mirage is a dead spec with no one on the dev side of things to vouch for. Is a spec trapped between two powerhouses in Chrono and Virt, doing their job but being  harder to play for worse results. They have trapped one of the coolest specs in the game on the vicious cycle of being bad (either for the jankiness, clunkiness or lack of numbers for the effort put into it)>nobody plays it because is bad>no reason to waste dev time on it because nobody plays it.

Will i still play it? Yeah, i don't like myself enough to embrace it will never get addressed as a real spec in the game and change to a real one.

 

Also, just checked the benchmarks, Virtuoso actually surpassed Mirage, we just keep losing mirabros.

 

Edited April 28 by Geronmy.3298
benchmark stuff

[Scolix.4879]

Yes it has laser plus its actually fun virtuoso keeps me entertained like maybe 30 minutes or hour at max and chrono i never liked at all.

Personally i play what i find fun over something that is deemed "meta".

[ShadowKatt.6740]

I'll say this: Since Weapon Master Training unclipped all the weapons we have, Mirage has become my most played spec.

I'm not generally an aggressive player. It's why I don't pvp; I'm not generally competetive and I don't have that drive. However, Mirage with a dagger is something else. My build is nothing special. I just focus on maximum vigor so I can use Mirage Cloak as much as possible and to that end I have made something horrifying. The thinking is simple: Phantom Razor lets you throw three daggers at your target at a range of 1200. Infinite Horizon means your clones can do it too. That means that with 3 clones out, every time you mantle up and throw knives you are hitting your target with TWELVE knives. That's bad enough, but it gets SO much worse. Firstly, you can do that twice in a row, so we're up to 24. While you're waiting for your endurance to refill, fill the gaps with Crystal Sands (36 knives), dodge again (48 knives), then Illusionary Ambush (60 knives), and dodge again (72 knives). Against a single target, and mind you I'm wearing celestial gear, it is DEVASTATING, plus you're invulnerable most of the time as you're always in Mirage Cloak. And then it gets worse.

I carry a focus, because the phantasm throws axes and mirages use axes; I'm a sucker for thematics. But the focus has Temporal Curtain which is a good skill but more importantly it's a dual skill. Following that you have Into the Void, which pulls 5 targets together at a single point. Did I mention yet that Phantom Razor pierces? Because Phantom Razor pierces. So Into the Void, followed up with an Unstable Bladestorm just to really drive in the idea that they're in a blender, and then hit them with up to 72 knives TIMES FIVE TARGETS. It's unrealistic to expect every one to hit but hypothetically we're talking about the potential to deliver THREE HUNDRED AND SIXTY STRIKES in the span of only a handful of seconds. It is obscenely aggressive and undeniably a blast to play that I keep finding myself going back to it when I don't even have a legendary dagger yet. This build has trumped my love of my other legendary weapons and I absolutely recommend you try it at least once.

[MilkyTea.9042]

Virtuoso buffs 🙈

[draxynnic.3719]

9 hours ago, MilkyTea.9042 said:

Virtuoso buffs 🙈

To be fair, pvirt had fallen out of favour, and they made pmirage buffs last patch. Were the pmirage buffs enough? Well, I haven't seen them in the build guides yet, but maybe that's because I haven't been looking that hard?

[Geronmy.3298]

5 minutes ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

To be fair, pvirt had fallen out of favour, and they made pmirage buffs last patch. Were the pmirage buffs enough? Well, I haven't seen them in the build guides yet, but maybe that's because I haven't been looking that hard?

They weren't. For what i've seen it peaks around 30kdps while burning your fingers off. You could play pvirt right now and it will be hundred times better.

[draxynnic.3719]

7 minutes ago, Geronmy.3298 said:

They weren't. For what i've seen it peaks around 30kdps while burning your fingers off. You could play pvirt right now and it will be hundred times better.

Colour me not surprised, then. Fun for zapping trash in open world but not useful for much else.

[Ishmael.6740]

Because I was the illusion all along.

[Waffles.5632]

On 5/26/2024 at 9:42 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

To be fair, pvirt had fallen out of favour, and they made pmirage buffs last patch. Were the pmirage buffs enough? Well, I haven't seen them in the build guides yet, but maybe that's because I haven't been looking that hard?

There's still a big problem with Power Mirage Sword Ambush just flat out missing on any type of elevation or terrain. You also can't spam abilities as you're in the air, or when you land it won't activate sword ambush either. It makes the skill very inconsistent & frustrating to use at times.

Furthermore, on PoF launch Mirage Cloak was one second, now it is only 3/4ths of a second, sounds like a small deal until you realize several ambushes are no longer covered with Mirage Cloak during their animation, sword being one of them. So you have situations where you get CC'd or hit mid air, unable to do anything at all because, you're in the air.

Then there's dagger which can be condi or power, has 1200 range, dazes, and pierces. Sooooo there really is no reason to go sword on mirage anymore both in pve & pvp.

 

Edited June 3 by Waffles.5632

[keyokku.5412]

mirage PvP WvW is strong still

PvE no reason to not use other specs

I enjoy mirage personally, makes things a lot smoother and quicker 

[Purple Effects.2503]

On 4/8/2024 at 5:22 PM, draxynnic.3719 said:

ould agree, though, that the balance team needs to pay more attention to play rate and less attention to golem numbers when making decisions

Not sure it’s entirely work. 

even if the game was 100% balanced, the easiest classes would gain popularity, not because it’s stronger or more met, just players tend to flock to the easiest options 

[StraightPath.3972]

Spear ambush.

[Purple Effects.2503]

Mirage is a stronger roaming option than both of those in Spvp. 

Pve wise elites will always render one another useless based on number balancing, if mirage was better then virt it would just reverse the argument. 

 

[draxynnic.3719]

14 hours ago, Purple Effects.2503 said:

Mirage is a stronger roaming option than both of those in Spvp. 

Pve wise elites will always render one another useless based on number balancing, if mirage was better then virt it would just reverse the argument. 

 

Mirage could at least stand to have higher theoretical DPS due to higher complexity and virt being full ranged. There was a time when I'd swap between them depending on the fight, but mirage has just fallen too far behind.

[Purple Effects.2503]

9 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

Mirage could at least stand to have higher theoretical DPS due to higher complexity and virt being full ranged. There was a time when I'd swap between them depending on the fight, but mirage has just fallen too far behind.

The day any weapons are balanced pn being ranged vs melee would prolly be a win but unlikely to happen unfortunately 

on the complexity front of things, I don’t think it’d really be balanced based on mmorpgs tend to avoid that subject, Its prolly about time mirage was the better choice tho, feels like virt has been top dog for a long time now really 

[Curunen.8729]

Paraphrasing the men in black quote - "...I make this look good!" 😄

Also you get an extra skill per weapon (ambush) which is more fun.

Downside is losing normal dodge animation for artistic expression - have to waste utility slots to get animation variety.

[draxynnic.3719]

10 hours ago, Purple Effects.2503 said:

The day any weapons are balanced pn being ranged vs melee would prolly be a win but unlikely to happen unfortunately 

on the complexity front of things, I don’t think it’d really be balanced based on mmorpgs tend to avoid that subject, Its prolly about time mirage was the better choice tho, feels like virt has been top dog for a long time now really 

ArenaNet have claimed that they're going to take into account whether the benchmarks are actually achievable in real content rather than just balancing to the benchmarks. Evidence is currently in the favour of the sceptics on that front, though...

[Purple Effects.2503]

2 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

ArenaNet have claimed that they're going to take into account whether the benchmarks are actually achievable in real content rather than just balancing to the benchmarks. Evidence is currently in the favour of the sceptics on that front, though...

I see it front 2 fronts in all honesty.

given the fact the game demands 20k DPs to pass all content yet the benchmarks are 45k should any of them really be achievable in real content. 

if the average player starts burning at 40k DPS. The game may as well realistically not have raids 

its likely the issue Anet face, they really can’t allow the average player access to double the DPs requirements,

to stack here also, with the boon system ranged are in melee for the vast majority of fights, so can you really place range at a real advantage when it lacks a physical playstyle. 

there are so many problems, that realistically I think Anet don’t have a lot of tread room when it comes fixing things 

[katte nici.9483]

It's almost as if the game was originally designed with a completely different idea of combat gameplay than what we see now in instanced PvE content.

[draxynnic.3719]

17 hours ago, Purple Effects.2503 said:

I see it front 2 fronts in all honesty.

given the fact the game demands 20k DPs to pass all content yet the benchmarks are 45k should any of them really be achievable in real content. 

if the average player starts burning at 40k DPS. The game may as well realistically not have raids 

its likely the issue Anet face, they really can’t allow the average player access to double the DPs requirements,

to stack here also, with the boon system ranged are in melee for the vast majority of fights, so can you really place range at a real advantage when it lacks a physical playstyle. 

there are so many problems, that realistically I think Anet don’t have a lot of tread room when it comes fixing things 

They have been introducing more combats that reward at least having the option to go range rather than going full melee of late, by creating mechanics that push you away from the boss for significant periods. That's part of why virtuoso is so dominant, but it does mean they can afford to make melee weapons a bit better DPS-wise than the ranged weapons, as long as a suitable melee weapon exists. Mesmer historically has the issue of sword being primarily a defensive weapon, while axe never really recovered from the the firebrand main balance lead not liking axe and wanting staff to be the dominant weapon for mirage instead.

[RasSativa.5109]

I'm a mirage main most of the game's i play.

In WVW and PVP i(d say mirage is balanced with power and condi specs.

In PVE mirage is suffering from a identity issue. it is supposed to be the condi elite spec off the mesmer profession. It gets outclassed by a condi vrit who has to do half of the things to get higher dps in most off the pve end game. The alac mirage has gotten nerfed into oblivion up to the point that mirage is only viable on a few encouters.

in my honest opinion. Fix the alac traitline so every ambush gets alac wich opens up alac mirage to a lot of weapons. you can fix the balance off the weapons then.

Give mirage another traitline wich increases condi damage if you run it and make it on the same collumn as the alac traitline. in that way there is a trade off on running alac or dmg. you can put it with the axe traitline if you want.
Last but not least. nerf or rework condi virst so there is incentive to play mirage on some instances.

I don't really need power mirage imo but if you want to implement it then i suggest buffing a lot of ambush weapon attacks so you can run an ambush build.

this is my thaughts on my fave spec.

 

[mirage.8046]

alac mirage is a lost cause, and I would gladly lose it if it meant buffing confusion. alacrity on mirage is a sore spot because the idea was added when no other especs granted the boon. honestly, I am surprised they kept it after EOD specs had been added. I loved playing alac mirage, but then too many changes came in and ruined both the condi side and alacrity side.

the Frankenstein build that it is now is unacceptable. make desert distortion and infinite horizon baseline, then we can start talking about serious buffs. the new Dune Cloak is good for open world enemies when clones die too quickly, but it competes with the current infinite horizon. the old dune cloak was so useful for stripping boons and copying them to you! 

mirage mantle and desert distortion being in the same tier is also wrong, and the old version of alac mirage used to be able to weave in distortions and ambushes after using f4 or gaining distortion from Inspiration's signet GM trait (not like one would consider Inspiration for instanced content, but it was great in open world hahaha).