Vindicator has far too much evades, blocks, defense to be doing the amount of damage, and aoe damage that it does, what's the philospophy?

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 this but also it heavily relies on hit your big telegraphed skills and since vindi can time its dodges its kind of the hardest counter you can nowdays get to a warr xp

[Flowki.7194]

6 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 this but also it heavily relies on hit your big telegraphed skills and since vindi can time its dodges its kind of the hardest counter you can nowdays get to a warr xp

But let me ask you this. Do you think its more skill to time an evade, or to just press a button that gives you durational blocks-invulns, making you exampt from counter play?

 

For example, there has been a recent change to ele arcane shield giving stab. What that now allows, is a hammer cata to hold down W, chain arcanes (which also refreshes fire skills), and smash you with multiple high power co abilitys. There is nothing you can do but outrange it, or block/immune it. That is not the kind of hammer cata I was hoping for, to get me back on the spec.

Edited May 21 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 this sir highly depends. If the skill makes you imune to everything it should have a realy high CD (about idk 30-40 Seconds just depends). Dodging a skill on the other hands takes more skill on the first look. But If your build is completely build around dodging as mutch as possible because it gants you dmging enemys plus grant you a damage buff while been also uncounterable cause its an evade. Then even the evade strat could be not as skilled as it used to be ^^.

My thinking is that there should always be at least one way to counter play something. On warr for example it is basicly using your blinds good and kite alot ^~^

This is also the reason why i prefer Spellbreaker now and also before staff nerfs over Bladesworn Back then. Cause the last one was basicly imune to everything 

Edited May 21 by Myror.7521

[Flowki.7194]

12 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 this sir highly depends. If the skill makes you imune to everything it should have a realy high CD (about idk 30-40 Seconds just depends). Dodging a skill on the other hands takes more skill on the first look. But If your build is completely build around dodging as mutch as possible because it gants you dmging enemys plus grant you a damage buff while been also uncounterable cause its an evade. Then even the evade strat could be not as skilled as it used to be ^^.

My thinking is that there should always be at least one way to counter play something. On warr for example it is basicly using your blinds good and kite alot ^~^

Evade spam is annoying, I agree, but at the same time, it is far better than block-invuln-stab spam, becuase every spec that has 2+ CC or high power co abilitys, can pressure the vindi between evades (ground aoe condi also works). Thief takes that evade to a more annoying level only becuase it also has stealth and instant range escape mobility (none target). In general the game spams mechanics, we all know this.. so it's only a question of which mechanic spam is too opressive, in which evades I feel are on the lower end of that list. That can be proved by the obvious fact that both thieves AND vindis do not do well at all in the middle of a group fight if properly focused, they have to leave. Yet they can be annoying in their own way for 1v1, especially as specs with lower mobility/melee.

 

There should be two ways. If a spec cannot toe to toe another (like warrior) then that spec needs kiting options as 1 counter. The second, if it is a melee spec and gets dominated by warrior.. then warrior needs changed, or said spec needs changed, so that their is mechanical, melee range counter play. I think you can say for yourself if honest, SPB, druid, untamed, are very oppressive melee specs vs other melee specs that simply will not see the light of day as a result.

Edited May 21 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 well i mean If i would balance the game.... i would highly favor core warr over every other warr build. But sad trueth is also. Warrior kind of need the mechanic of the full counter to have any given change against other Specs. I gues in the end an actually CD Nerf (with nerf i mean increase it) to full counter from 8 Seconds (with salve traitline) to around 10 Seconds(with salve traitline) would be the way to Go ^~^

[Flowki.7194]

4 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@Flowki.7194 well i mean If i would balance the game.... i would highly favor core warr over every other warr build. But sad trueth is also. Warrior kind of need the mechanic of the full counter to have any given change against other Specs. I gues in the end an actually CD Nerf (with nerf i mean increase it) to full counter from 8 Seconds (with salve traitline) to around 10 Seconds(with salve traitline) would be the way to Go ^~^

I played warrior but not enough to make any sort of specific claim, so ill take your word on that. All I know is, I would enjoy fighting SPB alot more if it was punished when it had clearly made the majority of mistakes. Its not that I dislike dueling SPB, its like core engi, they are enjoyable if it feels fair punishment/reward is given. Or should I say marginally fair, its obviously too much to expect 50/50 kinde deal.

Edited May 21 by Flowki.7194

[Myror.7521]

@Flowki.7194 on this point of doing mistakes and beeing punished by it. I Personaly think warrior was the class of having this like alot (because one missed hit means less dmg buffs and less self healing) but this kind of Changed abit with staff being releases xp 

Well and of course with unblockable fullcounter xD

Edited May 21 by Myror.7521

[aymnad.9023]

I don’t know if this patch is going to make it better for me. I did not have an issue with the urn.

I have an issue with all the damage vindi keeps getting. There are lots of good coefficients on the weapons which is fine. Then you have to avoid all the utilities which starts to be really annoying.  And finally there are really cheap things like death drop being a constant pressure (on a dodge), gs 5 animation hitting you hit even when you dodge.

Edited May 21 by aymnad.9023

[Sereath.1428]

33 minutes ago, aymnad.9023 said:

I don’t know if this patch is going to make it better for me. I did not have an issue with the urn.

I have an issue with all the damage vindi keeps getting. There are lots of good coefficients on the weapons which is fine. Then you have to avoid all the utilities which starts to be really annoying.  And finally there are really cheap things like death drop being a constant pressure (on a dodge), gs 5 animation hitting you hit even when you dodge.

The only allowed playstyle for Revenant. Full damage in order to kill their targets within the first 5 seconds.

This was bound to happen when they nerfed Salvation over a year ago that gave them a role similar to warrior's:  Fewer dodges, less damage, but more consistent sustain.
So ever since, everyone just goes full damage with Devastation-Swift Termination + Death Drop (because for some reason Imperial Impact was deleted from every game mode before Death Drop) and started playing like a Power Herald again. That's where the players have been pushed to.
These devs keep balancing around imaginary scenarios, the wiki and/or some arbitrary philosophy.
Same old.

Edited May 21 by Sereath.1428

[Skary.8956]

36 minutes ago, Sereath.1428 said:

The only allowed playstyle for Revenant. Full damage in order to kill their targets within the first 5 seconds.

This was bound to happen when they nerfed Salvation over a year ago that gave them a role similar to warrior's:  Fewer dodges, less damage, but more consistent sustain.
So ever since, everyone just goes full damage with Devastation-Swift Termination + Death Drop (because for some reason Imperial Impact was deleted from every game mode before Death Drop) and started playing like a Power Herald again. That's where the players have been pushed to.
These devs keep balancing around imaginary scenarios, the wiki and/or some arbitrary philosophy.
Same old.

I'm sure Cal is playing 10-15 hours of pvp every week
Press X for doubt

[Sahne.6950]

15 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

For example, there has been a recent change to ele arcane shield giving stab. What that now allows, is a hammer cata to hold down W, chain arcanes (which also refreshes fire skills), and smash you with multiple high power co abilitys. There is nothing you can do but outrange it, or block/immune it. That is not the kind of hammer cata I was hoping for, to get me back on the spec.

Thats not how this works.

For arcane shielding to have stabi, you need to run the "Arcane lightning" trait..... which you absolutely dont on Hammercata.

You would be trading your defense/resustain/aura/stabi (Arcane evasion), for this..... gimmick.  You could already do your "run in and spam fire-shenanigans", before the "buff".      

Arcane shielding is shielding you afterall.

The change only made it impossible for Unblockable CC to knock you.... which are very rare to begin with.

The Arcane shielding change did very close to nothing for hammer cata. If anything, you are shooting yourself in the knee by taking Arcane lightning instead of Arcane evasion.

Edited May 22 by Sahne.6950

[Flowki.7194]

5 hours ago, Sahne.6950 said:

Thats not how this works.

For arcane shielding to have stabi, you need to run the "Arcane lightning" trait..... which you absolutely dont on Hammercata.

You would be trading your defense/resustain/aura/stabi (Arcane evasion), for this..... gimmick.  You could already do your "run in and spam fire-shenanigans", before the "buff".      

Arcane shielding is shielding you afterall.

The change only made it impossible for Unblockable CC to knock you.... which are very rare to begin with.

The Arcane shielding change did very close to nothing for hammer cata. If anything, you are shooting yourself in the knee by taking Arcane lightning instead of Arcane evasion.

Ive dueled hammer catas that were using the trait, and also some using FA for the mobility, they were decent front loaded pressure. The old hammer cata meta build clearly isn't good enough, no mobility, cumbersome stab access (relative to how all specs are now spamming stab), only 1 cc on demand, its no suprise to see these alternative builds.

Edited May 22 by Flowki.7194

[Sahne.6950]

1 minute ago, Flowki.7194 said:

Ive dueled hammer catas that were using the trait, and also some using FA for the mobility, they were decent front loaded pressure. The old hammer cata meta build clearly isn't good enough, no mobility, cumbersome stab access (relative to how all specs are now spamming stab), only 1 cc on demand, its no suprise to see these alternative 

I dont see how arcane lightning is improving the hammerbuild... but apparently people run it... 

Have to take your word for it. 

I feel like the only good hammerbuild is infact Earthweaver. If you havent tried that build, i advise you give it a shot.

[Flowki.7194]

Just now, Sahne.6950 said:

I dont see how arcane lightning is improving the hammerbuild... but apparently people run it... 

Have to take your word for it. 

I feel like the only good hammerbuild is infact Earthweaver. If you havent tried that build, i advise you give it a shot.

Oh I should add context, im not saying the arcane/fa varient is front loaded enough to rival WB, ive not seen a single hammer cata in sPVP this season. Ive also tried some more mobile builds myself, but ultimately.. hammer cata on any build is too much effort/risk for the reward, and even with max mobility options, its still easily kited by many specs -sustain

Ive dueled the weaver varient, and it does seem good. I may try it some time but as above, it does not feel worth the effort. I just sit in wait that they will somehow buff cata hammer mobility withought tanking sustain, so that every single engagement isnt die, or they leave (unless cocky/caught off gaurd). Or maybe buff its group fight mechanics, some resolotion or something.

[Shao.7236]

On 5/21/2024 at 12:13 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

Revenant

• Coalescence of Ruin: Reduced the damage coefficient from 1.75 to 1.45 in PvP only. Increased the height of the damage hit box.
• Field of the Mists: Reduced the damage coefficient from 1.35 to 1.1 in PvP and WvW.
• Urn of Saint Viktor: Reduced the strike damage reduction and the condition damage reduction from 50% to 33% in PvP only. Increased the cooldown from 2 seconds to 10 seconds in PvP only.

 

GOOD JOB ON ALL HATERS FOR GIVING IT AN OVERNERF 👏👏👏. You may all be proud on yourself, you now don't need to learn making builds that counter it and learning how to counter anymore.

 

You call that an overnerf? This is just anet beating around the bush still and they know it, all of those changes wouldn't be necessary if they actually could fix the obvious problem. I was dedicated to not play Vindicator until they fix the issue, still will be.

[Arheundel.6451]

On 5/22/2024 at 1:40 PM, Sahne.6950 said:

I dont see how arcane lightning is improving the hammerbuild... but apparently people run it... 

Have to take your word for it. 

I feel like the only good hammerbuild is infact Earthweaver. If you havent tried that build, i advise you give it a shot.

Loads of copy paste from "pro" players with no recognition of the actual origin of a build. These builds pop up once somebody on ele doesn't croak on sight when facing some wannabe pvper on yet another fotm 123 build