Power Mirage (PvE/Open World/Raids)

[Vinny.7260]

Disclaimers before we get to reading my presumably hot take: I only recently have gotten into playing with Mirage and noticed certain traits and have been hyperfixated on them. I'm relatively new to the PvE scene in terms of min-maxxed DPS, best-in-slot damage, meta, and all that. I just like how this plays as a personal playstyle rather than meta.

 

So I've been messing around with Mirage. I can get roughly 25k DPS with minimal idea of what kind of rotation I need to do, but I do know I like the following things:

• Laserbeam. Zap zap zap. ZAP.
• A lot of dodging... Minimal thinking
• Dagger Ambush is satisfying to cast
• Did I mention dodging?

Anyway, maybe I'm still learning the whole dealio of what makes a Power Mesmer a Power Mesmer, but comparing other Mesmer builds, Mirage definitely felt more forced into the 'AMBUSH AT ALL TIMES' instead of trying to line up phantasms back-to-back-to-back-to-back... Chronomancer, looking at you.

 

Things I kinda disliked:

• Clone micromanagement
  • If I accidentally shatter clones when no phantasms are up, I lose some tempo.
• Greatsword Ambush animation lock...
  • I feel like there's a weird pre-cast/aftercast on the ambush and get stuck not using it at all...
• Lose tempo if all shatters are on CD (such as needing Distortion for a panic moment).

Anyway, I don't think Power Mirage is actually cursed, but I'll let y'all chew on me and spit me out. 😉

 

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PiwAgyFlRwiYTsNmJOyKdvcA-DyQYhoj6eHSUZERFURKY5ZhgIGjhDwJp/QDFW2AA-e

I definitely could min-max the stats better, I think... Hmmm.

[yoeri.9275]

can you guys buff the mirage mesmer spec to be more in line with the other 2 for end game PvE group content?
it is my favorete spec to play, but it litterly sucks in PvE group content.
i understand you don't want to indercly buff the 2 other specs, so buff ambush skills.
no other mesmer spec uses ambush skills, chrono is in a great spot as a supporter.
virtuoso is amazing hybrid dps.
just give the ambush a big buff in damage.
and make mirage vaible dps in PvE end game content.
other than mirage, mesmer is in a great spot.

[yoeri.9275]

problem with mirage is this.
for boon support, chrono does more damage and gives both boons by choice.
dps is so far off virtuoso that even boon support chrono does more damage.
mirage is in the worst spot for dps output, that any other spec is always the better choice, not even close.
i love mirage, and it's playstyle, but it's dps sucks, litterly sucks compaired to chrono and virtuoso.
that mirage realy needs a bff, to be stronger than boon support chrono, but may be weaker than vitruoso.
it doesn't need to be the strongest, but must be strong inof to validate the pick of mirage insted of any other dps in a group of 10.

[Excitonalt.7340]

In terms of power damage build, Mirage trait line doesn't have the damage modifiers the other two had.

Chrono has +10% shatter damage and +10% crit damage. It also has faster CD in instanced content as you assume 100% uptime of the improved alacrity

Virtuoso has +10% <600 range, +5% after bladesong, +15% crit with fury, +100 ferocity.

Mirage doesn't have any trait that give modifier on power damage. To make it more viable, they can add some power modifier on Nomad's advance and add something on another trait, probably dune cloak as it hasn't seen much play in either PvP or PvE instanced content after rework.

[yoeri.9275]

i don't mind a small rework of mirage.
i was also thinking about buffing the power side of mirage, or a trait buff for more damage for condi side.
sinds those are the main conditions, without inderecly buffing other specs.
i really want to play mirage in end game content, unfortunaly in its current state, chrono and vitruoso leave it eating dust.
that is why i request a buff for mirage, to bring mirage more in line with chrono and vitruoso.
mesmer is in the best spot it has ever been, both dps, boonsupport and healing.
now only mirage needs to be looked at, and memser is ballanced in PvE content.
mesmer utility is always busted, and always will be, dps is never the highest or lowest, it's range is busted i know.
these advantiges i don't take in calculation, even though, vitruoso is not the highest dps, but around the middle of the top dps specs.
that is why i call mesmer ballanced.
sorry for misspelled english.

p.s. i am not a number cruncher so this buff is most likely OP, on the 2nd trait bottom, 15% increase in condi damage while wielding a axe, on top of the flat condi damage it already gets, with PvP/WvW only getting a 3% increase sinds confusions is busted in those game modes.

Edited May 21 by yoeri.9275

[Vinny.7260]

11 hours ago, Excitonalt.7340 said:

In terms of power damage build, Mirage trait line doesn't have the damage modifiers the other two had.

Chrono has +10% shatter damage and +10% crit damage. It also has faster CD in instanced content as you assume 100% uptime of the improved alacrity

Virtuoso has +10% <600 range, +5% after bladesong, +15% crit with fury, +100 ferocity.

Mirage doesn't have any trait that give modifier on power damage. To make it more viable, they can add some power modifier on Nomad's advance and add something on another trait, probably dune cloak as it hasn't seen much play in either PvP or PvE instanced content after rework.

I most definitely noticed there was a lack of power-related modifiers for Mirage.

It's kinda interesting that there isn't Power (or just a +#% modifier) for Vigor.

I could see them smacking some extra damage mods into Dune Cloak too, since they want that to be the "Power Mirage" trait... Presumably. (Given that clones don't do a whole lot of damage on the Power side of things, and Infinite Horizon is locked down for Mirage in that aspect).

Nomad's Endurance: +150 Power in addition to the Condition Damage.

Dune Cloak: Deal +25% Strike Damage while under the effects of Mirage Cloak, in addition to the previous effects.

 

I don't know if that'd be too much though. We already have to dump a lot of Berserker's gear for Assassin's to have crit chance.

[Waffles.5632]

Mirage needs more love 100%

The trait Speed of Sand is still the worst trait in the entire game. While every other class gets reworks, with ele getting like 10+ in the last year alone.

I am glad Mirage got some love past couple of patches but the dev bias is still heavily there.

They either don't know what to do with the class, or just hate it because they don't give it anywhere near the time of day that other classes get. WB got straight buffed with virtues. No trade off, no nerf, just a straight massive buff of "you can use all your virtues at once now, they no longer overwrite" meanwhile anything mes gets that's a buff always ALWAYS comes with a nerf in the name of "balance"

Mirage had one dodge for ~3yrs in pvp for example, when they got their 2nd dodge back, it was with a "trade off" in pvp, but a straight nerf to pve. We were literally told "it's not a big deal for pve so deal with it" as well. The nerf being, you can no longer mirage cloak through CC.

Love this game, really do, but it's straight tiring of seeing your favorite class get so blatantly mistreated and left behind every single other class. I have a small youtube channel and it definitely isn't much, but I just refuse to do any videos on gw2 until Mirage gets treated better. Simply put.

[Vinny.7260]

25 minutes ago, Waffles.5632 said:

Mirage needs more love 100%

The trait Speed of Sand is still the worst trait in the entire game. While every other class gets reworks, with ele getting like 10+ in the last year alone.

I am glad Mirage got some love past couple of patches but the dev bias is still heavily there.

They either don't know what to do with the class, or just hate it because they don't give it anywhere near the time of day that other classes get. WB got straight buffed with virtues. No trade off, no nerf, just a straight massive buff of "you can use all your virtues at once now, they no longer overwrite" meanwhile anything mes gets that's a buff always ALWAYS comes with a nerf in the name of "balance"

Mirage had one dodge for ~3yrs in pvp for example, when they got their 2nd dodge back, it was with a "trade off" in pvp, but a straight nerf to pve. We were literally told "it's not a big deal for pve so deal with it" as well. The nerf being, you can no longer mirage cloak through CC.

Love this game, really do, but it's straight tiring of seeing your favorite class get so blatantly mistreated and left behind every single other class. I have a small youtube channel and it definitely isn't much, but I just refuse to do any videos on gw2 until Mirage gets treated better. Simply put.

Absolutely agreed. I've been banging on the drum for Speed of Sand to be either reverted or to have Swiftness after finishing your Mirage Cloak... Just SOMETHING to have some sort of relevance rather than a bandaid trait...

As for the CC thing, you can use Dune Cloak's trait to dodge while CC'd, but you have to have 2+ clones and burn a shatter for it... Not exactly fun.

 

I'm still shocked at how much they nerfed Staxe Condi Mirage when it was performing better than Virtuoso, but wasn't EVER going to hit that bench in actual content...

I could rant about Mirage from a PvP perspective for a while, but I've moved over to PvE mostly due to the burn-out of waiting lol.

[yoeri.9275]

see devs, their is mutch love for this class, that a single post is already putting forward idee's how to make it better, without impacting other specs/classes.
24 june is the nextbalance patch, give us mirage enjoyers our favorete spec back.
work with the traits, sinds that is what your next ballance is all about anyway.
either super buff it, and tweek where nessasery, or test the living hell out of mirage, so that it will preform with a proper benchmark.
you put so mutch tought in mirage, way more than most specs.
give it the love you had when making it.
i love mirage astetic, theme and lore.
it is amazing, how mutch tought was in this unique class, show us players that the love isn't gone.


a super buff, as a way to say sorry for the butcher block we put it on, with a small nurf to where it was intended 1 maybey 2 months later. (small joke, but might give you accurate numbers to work with)

Edited May 21 by yoeri.9275

[yoeri.9275]

3 hours ago, Vinny.7260 said:

Absolutely agreed. I've been banging on the drum for Speed of Sand to be either reverted or to have Swiftness after finishing your Mirage Cloak... Just SOMETHING to have some sort of relevance rather than a bandaid trait...

As for the CC thing, you can use Dune Cloak's trait to dodge while CC'd, but you have to have 2+ clones and burn a shatter for it... Not exactly fun.

 

I'm still shocked at how much they nerfed Staxe Condi Mirage when it was performing better than Virtuoso, but wasn't EVER going to hit that bench in actual content...

I could rant about Mirage from a PvP perspective for a while, but I've moved over to PvE mostly due to the burn-out of waiting lol.

porbobly got nerfed do to mace condi mech and torment harbringer where overpreforming to mutch.
mirage was coladeral damage at that point, most likely.
that is why the buffs should be in ambush or mirage traits, sinds those buffs will never impact other classes/specs.

Edited May 21 by yoeri.9275

[AshkyLicious.4729]

I for one hope Mirage gets the attention it needs. This amazing spec is so cool in every single way and has so much potential to be a great spec. It just needs the love and attention it deserves from the balance team.

I've been on these Mirage threads too much and yelled before, trying together with everybody else to get Anets attention. I'm happy that threads like this still pops up from time to time ❤️ Hopefully they'll finally listen 🙏

I'm still maining my Mirage, and man... the nerf is real... How did it go so far? How is it allowed to break the game experience for one group of their playerbase like this? Mirage needs all the attention from Anet asap! We Mirage mainers want to have fun in this game aswell, dont neglect us like this...

[yoeri.9275]

21 hours ago, AshkyLicious.4729 said:

I for one hope Mirage gets the attention it needs. This amazing spec is so cool in every single way and has so much potential to be a great spec. It just needs the love and attention it deserves from the balance team.

I've been on these Mirage threads too much and yelled before, trying together with everybody else to get Anets attention. I'm happy that threads like this still pops up from time to time ❤️ Hopefully they'll finally listen 🙏

I'm still maining my Mirage, and man... the nerf is real... How did it go so far? How is it allowed to break the game experience for one group of their playerbase like this? Mirage needs all the attention from Anet asap! We Mirage mainers want to have fun in this game aswell, dont neglect us like this...

i went a small step further.
i started with a support ticked to the balance, wich rederected me to the forum.


this was that ticket: can you guys buff the mirage mesmer spec to be more in line with the other 2 for end game PvE group content?
it is my favorete spec to play, but it litterly sucks in PvE group content.
i understand you don't want to indercly buff the 2 other specs, so buff ambush skills.
no other mesmer spec uses ambush skills, chrono is in a great spot as a supporter.
virtuoso is amazing hybrid dps.
just give the ambush a big buff in damage.
and make mirage vaible dps in PvE end game content.
other than mirage, mesmer is in a great spot.

what better way to yell, than to direcly bring it to their attantion with a support ticket to watch the forums.
ever sinds, i've  been on this forum.
i hope they watch and are working over hours so they don't forget mirage.
the top 1% will always be insane in dps, top 1% balance is WoW balance team thinking.
i hope Anet stands above WoW balance team, and makes the classes fun for the top 35% at least, or the slightly above avargidge people.

Edited May 22 by yoeri.9275

[zeyeti.8347]

Mirage not being played is because confusion is the worst condi dmg in the game , previoulsy it had some niche use on some bosses were the damage skyrocketted rapidly and was garbage on others , now it's garbage on everything, you have to rely heavely on your dodge to deal damage , meaning you won't maybe have a dodge for a critical moment, as alacrity the way you give alac is troublesome , you have to dodge and then wait for your clones to actually copycat your attack before dodging again as they will not provide the attack and alacrity uptime if you dodge during thier animationas you are under quickness but not them.

Simply make a trait : whenever u use an ambush skill your provide x sec of alacrity (+x sec per clone active) to your group in a 360  range , slap some might to it , buff confusion damage or replace all the confusion by torment and there you go. 

[Suyheuti.1732]

4 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Mirage not being played is because confusion is the worst condi dmg in the game , previoulsy it had some niche use on some bosses were the damage skyrocketted rapidly and was garbage on others , now it's garbage on everything, you have to rely heavely on your dodge to deal damage , meaning you won't maybe have a dodge for a critical moment, as alacrity the way you give alac is troublesome , you have to dodge and then wait for your clones to actually copycat your attack before dodging again as they will not provide the attack and alacrity uptime if you dodge during thier animationas you are under quickness but not them.

Simply make a trait : whenever u use an ambush skill your provide x sec of alacrity (+x sec per clone active) to your group in a 360  range , slap some might to it , buff confusion damage or replace all the confusion by torment and there you go. 

1- Mirage is not played, because Mirage (Axe illusions) is the hardest spec in the game. Even benchmark makers dont want to grind golem, they cannot set the proper rotation. And think about it on real scenario. 
And there is condi virtuoso alternative. Unlike mirage, very easy spec to play. 
 

2- They need to remove alacrity from staff ambush. People has been telling this over years.

3- If Anet needs to make Power Mirage viable, they need to change some useless traits into Power Modifiers. For instance, riddle of sand. Very useless trait. Dune Cloak change was good for power but needs more buff.

4- Sword 2 needs serious buff. Unlike dagger, sword has very melee disadvantage and it needs to deal higher damage than dagger. 
 

5- Chrono and Virtuoso has F5. Mirage needs too. Also I expect Virtuoso F5 damage buff to make Power Virtuoso more viable. 
 

[draxynnic.3719]

On 5/22/2024 at 1:02 AM, Waffles.5632 said:

Mirage needs more love 100%

The trait Speed of Sand is still the worst trait in the entire game. While every other class gets reworks, with ele getting like 10+ in the last year alone.

Ele needs it. We're (justifiably) complaining about mirage, but in PvE pretty much all the ele specs feel like mirage in comparison.

[otto.5684]

IMO mirage issue is ramp up. For a melee dps, having to slow damage ramp up, damage loss on target change and difficult rotation, makes it an inferior choice in most pve content.

First, all axe skills should apply torment significantly faster in pve. I would have the duration and double the stacks. Second, I would recommend removing confusion in favor of… unsure. Burn seems idle, though not thematic. Another possibility is for Anet to be creative, and torment some different functionality. Something like if the target has 10 stacks apply all their damage instantly or over a much shorter duration(balancing this for pvp ia a different story). 

[yoeri.9275]

On 5/25/2024 at 5:39 AM, draxynnic.3719 said:

Ele needs it. We're (justifiably) complaining about mirage, but in PvE pretty much all the ele specs feel like mirage in comparison.

i sugjest going to a ele forum to voice complains.
insted of trying to run over the mirage forum.
we mirage lovers don't get swayed to insult ourself by switching this forun to ele insted of our beloved spec mirage.

[yoeri.9275]

the recent ballance patch they showed in advance, leaves mutch to be desired for mirage.
they say they keep a eye out on mirage condi spec to not have it run out of porportions.
why not make mirage the power spec of the class.
they buff power virtuosu, but insted of doing that, buff power mirage.
no need to worry about the condi mirage, as they fear it.
and simply buff power mirage to avoid condi mirage balance nigtmare.
makes me think they are so focused on condi builds for mirage, they forget that power exsists.
the dagger ambush could be the power weapon we mirage enjoyers wanted, but they made it a bleed stacker insted.
why do you guys not think it through more.
if you fear one side of the build options, focus on the other side of the build options.
is it that dificult to swap thinking procces?
don't stick with what doesn't work, either rework mirage, rework axe, or rework dagger ambush.
if it gives you nightmares to ballance, rework it to the point it no longer torments your nightmares and leaves you confused on how to ballance it propporly.

[draxynnic.3719]

6 hours ago, yoeri.9275 said:

i sugjest going to a ele forum to voice complains.
insted of trying to run over the mirage forum.
we mirage lovers don't get swayed to insult ourself by switching this forun to ele insted of our beloved spec mirage.

I've played mirage (let alone other mesmer specs) in endgame content much, much more than ele. And with good reason.

I'm not saying that mirage doesn't have problems that need addressing (it clearly does), but Waffles' implication was that the effort on ele was misplaced. It's not - ele is in a terrible state in general, and you can see this in the playrates (chrono alone is currently played more than all elementalist specs combined according to the wingman stats). You're right in that this isn't the right place to discuss ele issues, but let's not go taking potshots at ArenaNet giving attention to other specs that need it.

[yoeri.9275]

10 hours ago, draxynnic.3719 said:

I've played mirage (let alone other mesmer specs) in endgame content much, much more than ele. And with good reason.

I'm not saying that mirage doesn't have problems that need addressing (it clearly does), but Waffles' implication was that the effort on ele was misplaced. It's not - ele is in a terrible state in general, and you can see this in the playrates (chrono alone is currently played more than all elementalist specs combined according to the wingman stats). You're right in that this isn't the right place to discuss ele issues, but let's not go taking potshots at ArenaNet giving attention to other specs that need it.

you mist the point of my awnser.
this is a mirage forum post.
to get ele changes and discustions, go to a forum for elementaslist.
that is what i am saying.

and yes. on this officual arenanet forum website.
their are ele forums where you can voice complains.
this one, is not the one you seek, or where the team looks for ele changes.

Edited May 29 by yoeri.9275

[Teknomancer.4895]

🤣 Someone with 12 total posts telling a 6k poster how the forum works...ok. 🤣

[yoeri.9275]

makes it even more strange that he's/she's talking about ele in a mirage forum.
when he/she wants changes for ele.
doesn't matter how many post one has, there is a place for everything.
and in this forum, the devs don't look for ele, or consider ele.
the devs that go to this forum, are looking at mesmer.

so why does it matter if he/she has 6k posts.
for ele changes, he/she has a better change at it, on a ele focused forum.

Edited May 30 by yoeri.9275

[draxynnic.3719]

13 hours ago, yoeri.9275 said:

you mist the point of my awnser.
this is a mirage forum post.
to get ele changes and discustions, go to a forum for elementaslist.
that is what i am saying.

and yes. on this officual arenanet forum website.
their are ele forums where you can voice complains.
this one, is not the one you seek, or where the team looks for ele changes.

And you've missed the point of what I was saying completely - that the poster who I was originally responding to was punching down when they were taking a shot at ArenaNet paying attention to ele.

If they'd kept the discussion to mirage, I'd never have brought it up.

[Waffles.5632]

It's not a potshot to say that ele has gotten 10+ reworks while traits like speed of sand still exist in game. There is a clear bias towards classes that the devs themselves play.

 

If CMC played mesmer, then mirage would have gotten more attention, that is a fact. You can disagree, or get your feelings hurt, but it remains a fact I am sorry. I wish Mesmer got the treatment ele has since CMC took over. You ele's will complain about everything but the reality is ele is the least played class because it is the hardest to play while also having the lowest hp, and requiring the most amount of game knowledge AND having nearly twice as many skills as every other class.

That is all BY DESIGN. SINCE LAUNCH. So again, it is not punching down to state these things.  Anet has known that ele is the hardest class to play, by far requiring MORE EFFORT for the SAME RESULT as most reapers simply auto attacking.

I'm tired of seeing reworked ele skills, overloaded guardian skills, & necro buffs every patch while CMC nerfs Moa because they don't like playing against it.

 

Edit: Not only that but CMC has literally gone on record during streams with his bias against Mirage, saying that Mesmer is not allowed to have fun in game modes such as pvp. Mirage history is deeply tied to CMC and another Dev who I forget, but that dev was the reason alacrity got put on staff in the first place, and the reason why is because AND I QUOTE: "I buffed staff because I didn't like playing Axe."

Yes that is an actual quote by what used to be the actual balance dev before CMC took over. It was that quote among many others that got leaked from a secret discord chat that caused a massive negative response from the gw2 community which resulted in that dev being moved and CMC being inserted as balance lead.

We have devs buffing and nerfing classes based on their feelings instead of what's actually fair for every class, and that is why Mirage is where it's at today, and why we still have traits such as speed of sand in the game. Once again because it needs to be said, the entire reason staff gives alacrity was because the old balance dev didn't like playing axe.

Edited May 30 by Waffles.5632

[draxynnic.3719]

The reason ele doesn't get played is that it has all that complexity that makes it hard to get the benchmark numbers in actual play, and yet it gets nerfed whenever the numbers creep over the benchmark that easier-to-play builds can achieve, even when play rates indicate that the profession isn't exactly taking over the meta.

The reason mirage doesn't get played is that it has all that complexity that makes it hard to get the benchmark numbers in actual play, and yet it gets nerfed whenever the numbers creep over the benchmark that easier-to-play builds can achieve, even when play rates indicate that the elite specialisation isn't exactly taking over the meta.

It's the same problem. Elementalist builds have had times when they were at the top of the benchmarks, but despite that, there hadn't been any noticeable shift in the meta before ArenaNet felt they had to shoot it down just in case. Mirage was at or near the top of the benchmarks a few balance updates back, but ArenaNet felt the need to shoot it down just in case despite the overwhelming majority of players preferring virtuoso.

The distinction is that mesmer mains - and I'm much more of a mesmer main than ele, I just play all professions enough to have some perspective - are still doing well with chrono and virtuoso. It sucks that mirage is in a bad spot at the moment, but mesmers are currently ~25% of raids, ~20% of fractals, and ~30% of strikes. Implicitly advocating that a profession that totals under 4% in any version of endgame be abandoned is absolutely punching down.

I'm well aware of the sins of the previous balance lead, but it's not just the play rate evidence - pretty much everyone agrees that ele builds are underperforming. I know CMC is on record as enjoying elementalist, but maybe the evidence of low play rates and the opinions of the top guilds provides reasonable evidence that attention there is justified?

Granted, similar evidence applies to mirage as well.. but switching to virt or chrono still hurts less than I imagine switching to another profession entirely does.

Edited May 31 by draxynnic.3719