Dear Anet, are you already working on a new WVW design?

[Mabi black.1824]

Dear friends of Anet, can we try to take stock of where we are? And where are we going? Clearly, you need a little willingness to share and compare ideas and ambitions. Apparently the concept of a server is going to lose any kind of meaning in terms of comparison/competition, and that's fine, but (since you're working on a new scoring system) with the next step of comparison that becomes available is the guild. 

Common sense leads me to think, therefore, that the new scoring system will refer to the guild. So, assuming that one guild can have 500 players, while another guild can have 50 players, how do you want to build the comparison? Both will get points from structures rather than enemies killed. What's on your mind? An automatic multiplier? If you want to share some information about it I would be very grateful. Sharing this kind of information would explain and justify very closely the choices you have made in recent years.

[gerberlyfe.9736]

It's dead. They don't care.

[latlat.4516]

I don't get what you want. Points matter now as much as they mattered before. 

Communities didn't wait for anet to start to compare guilds kills, and there is no other scoring system other than the skirmish system that is expected or announced. 

Winning/losing a MU has only an impact on who you'll be facing the following week, and is still a team-wide effort rather than a guild-effort, and seeing how the last time they tried to make this matter finished, I'd be surprised if they ever tried again. 

 

So, what points to you want to be counted, and for what occasion ?

[Mabi black.1824]

2 hours ago, latlat.4516 said:

I don't get what you want. Points matter now as much as they mattered before. 

Communities didn't wait for anet to start to compare guilds kills, and there is no other scoring system other than the skirmish system that is expected or announced. 

Winning/losing a MU has only an impact on who you'll be facing the following week, and is still a team-wide effort rather than a guild-effort, and seeing how the last time they tried to make this matter finished, I'd be surprised if they ever tried again. 

 

So, what points to you want to be counted, and for what occasion ?

So, points count now as they did before, and that's exactly why I'm asking how Anet plans to change the scoring system, as he has announced.Meanwhile while the points count as before, maybe you haven't noticed, but now the server container is no longer the reference for anyone, it is randomly assigned every 4 weeks. I guess Anet has announced a new scoring system because it's aware that the moment the comparison between servers becomes useless it is necessary to give the PvP player another parameter of confrontation/competition through a new scoring system. But I could very well be wrong. Nothing could be easier.

[Zyreva.1078]

Servers never had much "meaning" in terms of competition. Like, which rank was your server. First? Last? Something in between? And the correct answer would be - all of that, depending on linking and transfers. So what meaning was there?

Since teams are more stable now without transfers, at least until the next reshuffle, and likely also more balanced population wise, a comparison would now make more sense than before if that's what you want. And when worlds are restructured again, you simply get a new team. Reshuffling teams is common in casual gaming and sport alike - and lets not pretend WvW is anything more than that. A competitive player will try to win, regardless of which team they are on.

[Mabi black.1824]

22 minutes ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Servers never had much "meaning" in terms of competition. Like, which rank was your server. First? Last? Something in between? And the correct answer would be - all of that, depending on linking and transfers. So what meaning was there?

Since teams are more stable now without transfers, at least until the next reshuffle, and likely also more balanced population wise, a comparison would now make more sense than before if that's what you want. And when worlds are restructured again, you simply get a new team. Reshuffling teams is common in casual gaming and sport alike - and lets not pretend WvW is anything more than that. A competitive player will try to win, regardless of which team they are on.

Of course, it's all very subjective. But a competitive player like this has a time perspective of 4 weeks. After that he will know if his team (compared to 18 other teams, if we keep T6) won or lost or maybe finished in third place?, then he shuffles everything and starts over. Is this what we have left? No rematch ? No chance of getting anything more ? We're sure the score still needs to be from the server ( now so volatile ) and not to the guilds ? That they will have more time for confrontation, that they will have more time to bring players together, that they will have more time to modify themselves and go and see if the next game will be better or worse etc etc? 

If that's all, I'd say, then let's last 24 hours and then starts again. Battle Royale style or something similar.

Edited June 21 by Mabi black.1824

[Zyreva.1078]

How is that any different from before? Except that players were able to switch teams at any time and not just every couple of weeks.

Edited June 21 by Zyreva.1078

[latlat.4516]

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

I guess Anet has announced a new scoring system

link to support that statement ?

 

1 hour ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

the comparison between servers becomes useless

it always has been useless. 

Multiple reasons for that : 

• most big guilds acutally don't care if they win or lose their MU. What they care about is the content they will in the current and for the following week
• you gain nothing for winning or losing, except choosing the people you fight the following week.

==> those two points indicate that what players expect from WvW is not measured accuratly by the skirmish system. 

• currently, there are 6 divisions for EU. Which means that a 4-week period is not enough for a team that was randomly put in the 6th tier to go up to 1st tier. Actually, the very fact that original tiers are distributed randomly makes the scoring meaningless if you want to compare teams and guilds
• the way of playing in WvW are very diverse, and I honestly doubt there is a way to measure all those ways in a single score.
• most information you'd want to compare guilds outside the skirmish system (nbr of kills, nbr of deaths, nbr of hours played, etc.) is already available through the API

 

I mean, I don't know why you would even except the current system to be structurally different from the old one. 

Edited June 21 by latlat.4516

[XenesisII.1540]

First of all, they mentioned adjustments, not a new design.

When has anet ever leaked anything before they're ready to announce something?

Plus it's wvw, it's always a toss up when they will decide to release something.

Plus you're asking questions and explanations based on your own assumptions brought out of thin air.

Sit down, relax, they'll have a blog up to vaguely explain the scoring changes at some point.

Lastly scoring changes will be worthless because scoring is a worthless system to have in matches that are too long over multiple time zones with a high variance in populations and coverage, while a lot of their players only care to fight now. There's a reason why other rvr games don't use scoring as the measurement for winning. The first alliance in the first week of the game proved why it was a bad system to begin with.

Even for a guild system it would blow, because a 50 squad mowing people down for a week is certainly not comparable to a guild that might be running 30 and only playing 3/7 days a week, yeah no kidding the big fat guild won, you don't need a scoring system to tell you that, it would only be something fluff inflate their egos, like the god or wvw title, or ultimate dominator title, look guys, look look, how many times we farmed sheep pugs hahaha.

 

39 minutes ago, latlat.4516 said:

link to support that statement ?

Not a new system, but adjustments, someone is overblowing it.

https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/studio-update-guild-wars-2-in-spring-and-summer-2024/

Quote

We’re also planning a round of WvW changes for the July 16 release that are focused on scoring adjustments. We’ll be back in a few months to talk about those changes in more detail!

 

Edited June 21 by XenesisII.1540

[Chaba.5410]

1 hour ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

Reshuffling teams is common in casual gaming and sport alike - and lets not pretend WvW is anything more than that.

Like practically all recreational level team leagues.  Amen.

[Mabi black.1824]

16 hours ago, XenesisII.1540 said:

Sit down, relax, they'll have a blog up to vaguely explain the scoring changes at some point.

Am I so relaxed that my playing time has been reduced to 30 min? maybe? then fall asleep while watching the hill or bay flip, because no one gives a kitten anymore, waking up for a couple of hours while the game has thrown me out. I seriously need to think about adding a soft pillow to my computer station. So I could be even more relaxed in fact. 🥱

[Mabi black.1824]

16 hours ago, Chaba.5410 said:

Like practically all recreational level team leagues.  Amen.

My intention was to understand something more about what Anet has in mind or what he is working on, at the time when he announced a change/update of the scoring system. I'm not interested in shuffles or amateur or sports leagues. They can do it as freely as they want, my guess is that they will move with the score towards the guild, since the server is so volatile/useless at this point. 

Of course, this is just a personal hypothesis. But if they choose to build and deliver points to guilds (through an automatic multiplier since all guilds have a different number of players) we might get a new 'motivation''. Checking how many points your guild has accrued during the season or how it ranks on the leaderboard are the kind of things that pull players in. It could be one more reason to propose their content when you go online, it could be one more reason to stay online longer, it could be one more reason to engage in a particular way when they see a guild just ahead in the rankings to try to catch up with it. I mean, that kind of thing. But if you prefer, we can keep a completely useless points system like we have now. Especially now that the server is random every 4 weeks. I don't think we're going to see this community of large-scale PvP players grow in this way. But if it's good for you, it's good for me. I'll put a camp bed in place of the chair and I'm good to go.😉

Edited June 22 by Mabi black.1824

[Mabi black.1824]

18 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

How is that any different from before? Except that players were able to switch teams at any time and not just every couple of weeks.

But what are you saying? I used to play for my team/server. That was my 'motivation''. Today, it no longer makes sense to propose your own content in reference to your team/server. Defender? Why? This is demonstrated by the fact that any structure on any map no longer has any meaning. at least for me. If before this was only valid for ''Combat Guilds'' because they don't give a kitten about any structure, just fight. Now this kitten is valid for everyone. 

[asha.4159]

I was hoping when OP was talking about a new WvW design, i thought they ment a NEW WVW BORDERLAND MAP!!!!!

More rewards to motivate a competitive matchup win i would love too! None of this 'ohhh we can get a fairer fun fight matchup if we lose and get matched up with Mooogoooooloooo wvw team on Tier 4! not mentioning in addition our stats like KDR on GW2MISTS will likely improve!'.... no thank you!

Edited June 22 by asha.4159

[Zyreva.1078]

8 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

But what are you saying? I used to play for my team/server. That was my 'motivation''.

You still have a "team" you can play for. Just with a different name. But those names never meant anyting, so why care?

[Burnfall.9573]

12 hours ago, Mabi black.1824 said:

Am I so relaxed that my playing time has been reduced to 30 min? maybe? then fall asleep while watching the hill or bay flip, because no one gives a kitten anymore, waking up for a couple of hours while the game has thrown me out. I seriously need to think about adding a soft pillow to my computer station. So I could be even more relaxed in fact. 🥱

 

My playing time has been reduced to 5 minutes. With every minutes; it is Instant Kill or Instant Death by Bad Design.

Also, I refuse to support Cele because it is Toxic in itself to Auto-Pilot/Auto-Play the gameplay for you. 

Edited June 22 by Burnfall.9573

[Mabi black.1824]

6 hours ago, Zyreva.1078 said:

You still have a "team" you can play for. Just with a different name. But those names never meant anyting, so why care?

At this point and in this state, no one really cares anymore. We can sleep soundly.

[RisingDawn.5796]

They don't intend on working on a new system though, only tweaks. You can't suddenly bring back the population of players, from 10 years ago even though, they can come back anytime they want, but you won't get back that classic gw2 wvw experience.

Server 'pride' having meaning, is all but in the world or server names, after the 2nd or 3rd tournament in 2014-15, especially since people and guilds used to transfer, quite often even before server linkings.

You had more choice of active servers, warscore scoring, glicko matchups, more tiers and more empty worlds, yet bad rewards, before the megaserver thing.

Since server linkings, went from beta to permanent on, the amount of player and guild reshuffling is probably around the same I imagine, also it's easier to level and gear second  and third accounts nowadays too.

Edited June 24 by RisingDawn.5796

[Mabi black.1824]

On 6/23/2024 at 12:27 PM, RisingDawn.5796 said:

They don't intend on working on a new system though, only tweaks. You can't suddenly bring back the population of players, from 10 years ago even though, they can come back anytime they want, but you won't get back that classic gw2 wvw experience.

Server 'pride' having meaning, is all but in the world or server names, after the 2nd or 3rd tournament in 2014-15, especially since people and guilds used to transfer, quite often even before server linkings.

You had more choice of active servers, warscore scoring, glicko matchups, more tiers and more empty worlds, yet bad rewards, before the megaserver thing.

Since server linkings, went from beta to permanent on, the amount of player and guild reshuffling is probably around the same I imagine, also it's easier to level and gear second  and third accounts nowadays too.

There's no point in denying what you've described here. But at the same time, it is useless to deny that a portion of players have always played (motivation) in reference to their server. Above all, you can't deny it because I exist and I'm here to tell you. However, that is not the issue. I made this post to understand what Anet has in mind for 'changes' to the scoring system. 

Anet has already made its decisions, so there is no point in discussing them. However, my personal impression is that it is a half-done job. Do you delete the server concept and keep a server-referenced score? It's clear that it can't work. Free your mind from strange prejudices and you will see that you will agree with me in this. So here we are on the reason for this post. We know that Anet is working on an overhaul/change of the scoring system, we might as well talk about it.

You've deleted the server. So what you're left with is the guild. Can we consider a new scoring system adhering to the war score (which only stays for 1up 1 down) that highlights all guilds? It's always my personal guess, but I think at this point, it could be appreciated by more players and maybe offer a new ''purpose/goal'' on a decent timeline. It's just my guess but you can freely suggest what I'd like in a new/updated scoring system.

Edited June 24 by Mabi black.1824

[disForm.2837]

What we see today with WR is a reflection of the overall direction WvW has taken last few years. 

For a very long time, scoring has been meaningless, outside avoiding unwanted matches. WvW revolt around fights, we make our own content. To have a semblance of good fights, at any scale, you need balance. 

WR is nothing more than Anet's attempts to balance WvW better. They sacrificed Server identity for that, and they absolutely know it. Old Servers were impossible to balance and too easy to game. 

Scoring per guild, shard, world is nearly irrelevant as of today. 

Are they going to succeed? We don't know, time will tell.

[Dantana.8510]

I hope they are because it's really broke now. Personally, I don't play much because all my server friends are gone or scattered.