Janthir Wilds Spear Beta Event Feedback: Warrior [Merged]

[King Simon.8139]

Dunno if it was said already, but spear 4 can be jumped over quite easily...

[Zekent.3652]

Now i see why spellbreaker broke its spear 💀

[GamerToad.9248]

47 minutes ago, sherwinator.7954 said:

I feel bad for saying this but honestly the entire kit just needs to be scrapped or heavily changed, the spear in it's current form has no redeeming qualities, worse range and dps than rifle at range and worse dps than melee weps in melee range while feeling worse to use, no boons or sustain, no useful condi's for pve, animations and vfx are lacking and the abilities are too hard to hit on anything moving and the wep just doesn't fulfil the class fantasy at all, it's the complete opposite of what we're used to and why we play warrior, we're all about getting in our enemies face and beating on them until they go down or we do.. if we wanted to stay at range we would be playing ranger or mechanist, with the spear even though it has a melee range mechanic strapped to it it still feels like we should be using it at range only especially since the 3 skill is a disengage.

I would just delete the melee mechanic in it's current form or change it completely, maybe give the warrior spear the ranger spear auto treatment where it swaps from a ranged to a melee version when within a certain range except do this for every warrior spear skill including the burst, and make the ranged version of skill 3 a gap closer with a daze or some other form of cc, Or maybe something akin to jayce's kit from league of legends where you can switch between a ranged and melee form by using skill 5 or something.

Look i like ranged options. issue with spear is that is very telegraphed and slow and clunky very reminecent of bladesworn.

the weapons don't offer boons or condis to justify the low damage it has.

[Zekent.3652]

Now that you're gonna read this post, it's not related to spear, but please make Arc Divider generate fury, it makes no sense that you lose your fury generation in Berserk mode.

I don't know what excuse to make, but you're gonna read it anyways, so, this could be a good synergy with Greatsword + Spear spellbreaker, also unroot Hundred Blades, thanks 😅

Edited June 28 by Zekent.3652

[Hairyape.4670]

I’d like to start off by saying I never write things on forums, but I feel like this is a good opportunity to express my frustrations and overall disappointment around the warrior’s spear. I agree with a lot of the comments made in this whole forum post regarding warrior to be honest. Everyone here seems to have a collective “this feels crap and looks crap” attitude to the spear and the design.

The beginning of the spear to the warriors heart…

If I honestly give my first initial impressions when hearing about the spear – I was extremely excited about the idea of getting a spear on warrior. My mind instantly drifted off to J4 from League of Legends. I was thinking about a long range stab move and a flag drop move (possibly something tying the whole “drop your spear like a banner” synergy) and then some jump and slam move where warrior could create a sort of dome gap closer... Felt like a slam dunk in my mind that we’d get some cool flashy moves and mechanic… heh.

Livestream

I waited patiently for the livestream showcase and after seeing a few classes I got excited “I wonder what cool visual effects warrior is going to get!?” I thought to myself “I’ve already seen some jump move in the other YouTube trailer, I hope the berserker burst move is better!”

And then….  I saw the warrior showcase.

Myyyyy goodness it was absolutely bananas. The skills looked terrible compared to the other classes. We got barely any visually good looking skills. The whole  “unique mechanic” was just tied to distance. It was just so disappointing.

I feel like when it comes to warriors, GW2 just thinks we’re stupid and we wont notice that the 3 skill on spear looks like a gust of wind version of the necro sword skill, mixed with Bladesworns dragon trigger 3. The berserker burst skill is just a copy and paste berserker sword burst skill. Our normal “burst skill” is a worse looking version of the Elementalist fire spear 2. What's up with that?

After finishing the livestream I seemed to start to compare the whole thing to a group assignment PowerPoint presentation. Where the other 8 classes got the love and visual effects they deserve, from people that did their Elementalist research, with the time invested into them and nice explanations. Warrior got that one student that quickly rushed to do the PowerPoint last minute because they forgot about the whole project and also left their USB on the bus so had to write it on a piece of paper.

When standing up to deliver the presentation, the student goes onto explain that “Soooo, yes…. a spear…. Is…. Erm…. Pointy! Yes, that’s right, pointy!” and on the piece of paper is just an arrow…… ---->It just makes you feel bad to want to play and main warrior.

Gameplay

On playing warrior spear I can honestly say it just feels crap. I’m an avid warrior enjoyer and its my go to when I play Guild Wars 2. I absolutely love berserker and running in face first, slamming my keyboard. The spec has impact and feels fun to play!

Spellbreaker is rewarding when you counter and I actually liked Bladesworn for ages (probably the only one that played it for so long haha)

But the spear just feels very… meh? It feels like you didn’t put any love into the class and went all out on some of the other classes.

I guess what I really want to say is thank you Anet. After 6 years of on and off gw2, I'm finally switching my main to something else. Guardian spear 5 and Necro also looks really cool so thanks for putting the time into the other classes so I can finally stop playing this underappreciated class. Such a shame that you slam dunked the warrior staff but left the spear at home in the bin.

[VoidParticle.4081]

Never posted before but came on here after playing in silverwastes for a bit. Here are my feedback thoughts.

1. Forceful Greatsword talent needs to allow land spears. If not I'll probably never play spear. Should probably be renamed too if it ever will work with land spears.

2. Spear skills 1 & 5 need to do more than upgrade based on distance. The skills are boring. Not even a boon granted or debuff given. Other professions with spear 5 seem significantly better. Maybe the "Crack Shot" talent needs to include spear 1 skill as another upgrade autoattack. 

3. Warrior tends to feel like it's versatility makes it a master of none. Spears don't need to be versatile if it means design team brings down the power level. Make it worth slotting and building around. I could just as easily use vanilla options such as rifle if I desired range.

4. "Spear Swipe" skill 3 ought to just be a targeted jump skill. This would allow for engaging a target or disengaging. It also lets you not move almost at all if you just want to use it to hit a stationary boss. By forcing a backwards evade you are not giving us options. More like I'm gonna accidentally evade off a cliff during a fight.

5. If playing spear on Berserker was expected, it has nothing going for it compared to Axe Berserker. The adrenaline generation NEEDS cleave to even do well on packs of enemies, and if you're single targetting you might get maybe 2 burst attacks off in a combat. The adrenaline generation is lacking. It makes me wonder if adrenaline generation should really be tied to axes and not just generic any weapon talent. Having enough adrenaline generation to get to your next burst seems important, especially if non-axe burst skills on berserker don't refresh. Maybe all non-refreshing berserker bursts need a 1 sec cooldown reduction just to catch up to axe?

 

Anyways, thanks for the beta! Spears are a cool weapon choice. I'd hope devs don't leave it in it's current state.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

The core design is alright. I suppose.   Listen to the people who are upset at the anim locks and tracking.

Please don't internalize "clunky, easily missable attacks and rooting" as warriors core design aspects. Nobody likes it.

Edited June 28 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[DemonCrypto.6792]

the spear on  warrior, aka the broken throwing stick 

there is no mechanics,

there is no self or shared boon,

there is no trait line or espec synergy,

there is no good move option,

there is no condi or possible condi build,

there is no animation or visual,

there is no sunspear theme or any theme at all behind it.

THERE IS ONLY RANGED POWER DMG WITH "PROXIMITY" HOOPS TO JUMP THROUGH !

just kitten fix riffle, don't try to fill a niche where there is already someone (even if riffle is struggling outside of meme build)

It's not like we don't have option for power dmg , like 70% of warrior weapons are not inoff.

 

This weapon feel half baked , empty , like there at least half missing,

Please put it back in the oven sprikle some cool design sugar on it , pump it with some good synergy filling and it will be a goodish cake. (or let it burn, i will just jump ship and play engi or ranger in the mean time)

It is not too late to not kill warrior again (i still remenber the first banner rework, you pull through that, you can redesign lance to be good).

 

Cordialy,

a Guy  with ectogambling problems.

Edited Tuesday at 08:40 PM by DemonCrypto.6792

[Acron.3712]

Spear's design is both pretty bland and confusing:

• It's Toolkit is absolutely barren, with having 0 boons without traits.
• Adrenaline generation is poor.
• Primal-Burst skill has an animation that takes 2,5 seconds. To say that that feels bad, when the animation is our characters just flayling around, is an understatement.
•  What's worse is that the design feels so counterintuitive to itself: You get cripples, immobilizes and an evade and knockback on 3 on a weapon that's supposed to "get stronger the closer you are". 
• Skill 5 is pretty much the only thing that's vaguely cool compared to the rest of the kit and it's tracking is ... bad.

Personally, I'm pretty disappointed with this one and think this needs a harsh rework, idealy something like a melee/ranged hybrid akin to ranger, because why the hell do they get cooler "weaponmaster" stuff than warriors anyway. (Why, yes I am salty about this)

[Shinichi Megure.8061]

my feedback:
My Point of view is mostly from casual pvp, casual wvw and casual pve. The first look is positiv for the animations n flow of the skills, negativ for the function. 

What is good about spear:

+the weapon has a healthy game design 
+the animations re smooth
+no visiual clutter
+aoe skills
+interesting concept different effects per range

not good:
-underpowered
-at the moment just a bad weapon like rifle
-the animation could be  a bit less hunter like more upright

How to improve:

I have not played paragon in gw1 so this is only an idea there might be some better out there.
Gain differents boons and apply different conditions per range the skill hit.

Skill 1:
range far away: gain 2s fury
mid: gain 3s fury and apply cripple
close: gain 4s fury and apply slow

Skill 2:
range far away: gain 5might 10s + apply 5 vulnerability
mid: gain 4 might 10s + apply aoe 3s aoe chilled
close:chilled: gain 3might for 10s + apply aoe blind 1 

Skill 3:
leave it as it is

Skill 4:
+convert 2 boon from opponent in conditions

Skill 5:
+ steal a skill for 20s. cd increase to 30s

burst skill:
+ aoe freeze + spears jump from foe to foe for 3s and convert boons into conditions

the real problem is that there re many degen weapon/builds that should have never been made.

 

[Bris.7984]

I think i got too much flame at this point of reading all the bad news of this Fail Spear thing ... moving to other class forums. I am sure i will get better energy from there than here... sadly !

[nopoet.2960]

I played around with war spear again today and I changed my mind about it.  It's lacking.  The cooldowns are far to long for each skill to have so little impact.

If the concept is we are throwing these spears so hard they are shattering we need to add knockbacks.  Anywhere there is an immobilize or cripple change it to knockback instead and it will start to feel better.  Add vulnerability to every skill.  Let skill 5 reset 3 like hammer.  

[Lems.2654]

Gday,
I will be writing this post from a WvW, 1v1, roaming/duelling point of view.

So far the animation quality on all the weapons is great, aside from the Primal Burst animation just being the ranger off-hand axe 5 animation. It's easy to see what's happening from an enemy point of view making countering or dodging the skills easy if you know what to look for. The inclusion of combo-finishers on this weapon is also welcome.

From a usability point of view all the skills have quite an extreme cast time which lends itself to the ease of dodging/countering for the enemy. However due to the 3/4s cast time and the additional 1/4 - 1/2s flight time its often times difficult to hit your abilities reliably. Especially for myself as I am Australian and operate on 250ping, which isn't often an issue. I mean the cast times aren't too different from most other weapons in the game, however all other weapons have a few 1/2s or 1/4s cast time to shake things up. Warrior relies heavily on landing the burst skill for both damage and survivability, so having it telegraphed is okay. But the 1-1&1/2s its takes for the projectile to land from pressing the button is a lot of time to predict ahead. The 3 ability is also very hard to gauge the range, and may benefit from a 100-150 range increase. 

Now I'm not saying big windups are a bad thing but what I will say is they should give some sort of increased reward, like higher damage or longer stun duration or some other utility effect, to offset this.

Normally for roaming and even group play I will play full zerk w/Golemancer runes with some assassins to get me to 60% crit chance, fully infused with power, with power food. My un-boon'd stats look like 2600 power, 2200 armour, 60% crit, 235% crit damage, 19,300 hp. Which is incredibly glassy. While running stats similar to these on my beta character I'm only able to hit a max hit of about 5k, with about 5-10 stacks of might. Where arc-slice hits for 8-10k, staff burst hits for 5-7k. But spear hits for about 4-6k, but is significantly harder to hit than staff burst. Stacking full might to 3500 power and ferocity to 350% crit damage I couldn't get spear burst to hit for more than 8k, which is disappointing. The Primal burst's damage is quite good, and pretty reliably hit for around 9-10k and it hits 5 people and applies up to 14stacks of vuln, which is great and can be reflected which is a good counter. The power efficents on most the skills feel right but some feel a touch low. Auto-attacks cant seem to hit for more than 1000. I guess power spear was introduced in the wrong meta where most people are using upwards of 2500 armour, which will reduce its damage output by about 20%ish.

What would I change?
Mighty throw:
Coefficient: 0.5->0.7
Maiming Spear:
Cast time: 3/4 -> 1/4
Aftershock Coefficient: 0.35->0.6
Spear Swipe:
Range: 450 -> 600
Disrupting Throw:
Cast time: 3/4 -> 1/2
CD: 15s -> 12s
Spearmarshal's Support:
change name: Spear Marshal's Support
Radius: 90 -> 150
Coefficient: 2.45 -> 2.8 
Harrier's Toss:
Cast time: 3/4->1/2
Evasion: 3/4->1/2
Coefficient: 2.5->2.7

In short, the damage on spear feels quite low. It Feels very clunky to use. Great looking animations.  

 

Edited June 28 by Lems.2654

[StraightPath.3972]

I'm not gonna beat the dead horse, but I will ask this simple question:
Why is an "interrupt skill" (quotes deliberate) having not only a massive 3/4s cast time, but is also manually aimed and has an extremely narrow hitbox?
Oh did i ask why it's also mere 900 range? If not then sorry...

Like seriously? Where is the big, fat, cow-sized payoff on this skill that justifies all of this?

Edited June 29 by StraightPath.3972

[Myror.7521]

small update from my earlier post ^^. In 5v5 pvp it feels realy good in comb with dagger sword and spellbreaker. Also it got signergy with forceful Greatsword so in PvE Open World it is also kinda good. Sooo letz say i can see this weapon get played in 5v5 conquest (while staff and GS are still better) and in PvE Open World as Berserker for solo Play against high rank champs.

 

 

This been said please fix spear 5. This skill does not hit while enemy is simply moving.

Edited June 29 by Myror.7521

[Vigothoras.1274]

Update: Previously complained about the extreme dropoff in hit volume at range. This issue is supposedly only present for the spearwielder. Played it briefly with a friend who claims that the sound is fine on his end.

[Squigglez.1236]

I only got to play each spear type a little bit and I didn't read all what was put here already, but dang does warrior get shafted. It feels like devs wanted every profession spear style to have a unique design but warrior showed up late and didn't get one. A lot of the other classes spear mechanics could be better here, ranger getting melee and ranged versions would be good, mesmers/guardian/ele ability to charge up some spear skills by using others, revanent cooldown reduction. The way warrior spear works feels like an anti-mechanic though. Making it work better the closer you are to the target makes it a bad ranged option. Warrior is really lacking a ranged option, rifle sucks and I don't remember seeing anyone using it even a few months after release, longbow feels more condition focused, and other than those two you just have gunsaber skills which obviously only apply to bladesworn. It's worse than the rifle that's already not used. It has a melee attack like rifle but doesn't get the benefit of gaining ammo. It has lower range, seems to have lower damage. Just like rifle it doesn't add anything special. I think the kit needs an actual mechanic before anything can be said about it's balance, otherwise it'll just be ignored by most of the playerbase.

[Lems.2654]

I've got a very nice wvw roaming build up and running. Look up Lems2654 on Medal TV. got a few clips today. The spear seems to be balanced completely around berzerker, which is horrible tbh...

[DanAlcedo.3281]

22 hours ago, Dirame.8521 said:

Loving the War Spear. Love its synergy with SpellB.

The skills seem to bleed into each other really nicely as well. Something that Engie spear doesn't have. I simply go 3-5-4-2 and it just smooth as butter. Love it.

Any of the good changes that the guys want above would be nice but as for me, I am happy.

Now I REALLY wanna know the spb synergy you found. 

[DanAlcedo.3281]

2 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

small update from my earlier post ^^. In 5v5 pvp it feels realy good in comb with dagger sword and spellbreaker. Also it got signergy with forceful Greatsword so in PvE Open World it is also kinda good. Sooo letz say i can see this weapon get played in 5v5 conquest (while staff and GS are still better) and in PvE Open World as Berserker for solo Play against high rank champs.

 

 

This been said please fix spear 5. This skill does not hit while enemy is simply moving.

If spear works with Forceful greatsword, it's a bug as the trait was changed to not work with land spear. 

[Myror.7521]

@DanAlcedo.3281 lol thats actually sad to hear cause its realy good there and i would not call it OP at all xd

[DanAlcedo.3281]

44 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@DanAlcedo.3281 lol thats actually sad to hear cause its realy good there and i would not call it OP at all xd

All traits that worked with spear now say underwater spear specifically. Which is sad indeed. 

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

4 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

If spear works with Forceful greatsword, it's a bug as the trait was changed to not work with land spear. 

It would get the 50% effects like every other weapon, not the 100% like GS and UW spear.

[Lems.2654]

3 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

All traits that worked with spear now say underwater spear specifically. Which is sad indeed. 

Just did a bit of testing and while it does say that, unsurprisingly it doesn't function as the tooltip says. Land spears get 100% chance to gain might on crit.

Edited Saturday at 12:52 PM by Lems.2654

[GamerToad.9248]

4 hours ago, DanAlcedo.3281 said:

Now I REALLY wanna know the spb synergy you found. 

All in his mind