Necro or Guardian?

[Katuza.9864]

Hello, 

I am a new player .I was check begginer friendly classes and looks like guardian and necro is my chose.

From this two classes which have more potential ,build which can shine in pve( fractal ) and pvp ( pvp,wvw) ? 

I watch many streams and got support to play Reaper but as i see its good but nothing special in pvp.The streamers it kill the most easyer!

Any suggestion about necro or guardian?

Thanks, have good game!

[Frequency.6407]

Necro.

Because you can press all the buttons all the time and still do well enough.

Press shroud key when in trouble.

Very simple and forgiving until you figure out the finer aspects of pvp.

[Katuza.9864]

Thank you for your opinion, maybe if somebody have to opinion it welcome!

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

Just roll Necro as your first class.

1. Easy class to learn to introduce you to game's mechanics, both pve and competitive.
2. In pve, it can perform all roles. I would argue that Necromancer is currently the best pve class, not only for end-game group content but also solo content. Make sure to check out: metabattle.com for competitive archetypes and snowcrows.com for end-game pve archetypes.
3. In competitive, pretty much the same thing. It's very versatile for build template swaps or simple utility swaps to adjust to the match you're in and what your team needs at the time.
4. Other classes are much more niche, and although they can be powerful, it'll take you twice as long or more to learn them.

Edited July 11 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[KurtLittleJesus.8139]

reaper will surely give you the most results with least effort compared to anything guardian has, pvp you don't need gear so you might just test both, reaper and dragonhunter, dragonhunter can meme fights easily with traps on node, which surely is powerful on low rating matches, cuz ppl will walk in and die

reaper is just tankier than DH and prolly more spammy friendly, pressing everything off cd works fine

[WingSwipe.3084]

Nerco for PvP is pretty balling right now with the addition of weapon master.

Reaper in PvP has always been a scary son of Grenth.

[arazoth.7290]

Core revenant

[Endo.1652]

Necro is easier to pick up mechanically. Just remember when playing it, positioning and kiting is everything. This applies to all classes but necro the most.

Youre not really fighting to hold a mode. You're fighting to make sure you're alive and enough of the enemy team is dead so you  can win control of the map with your team

[Kuya.6495]

Reaper is really good right now because it's loaded with cc, both soft and hard cc. The counter to cc spam is stability but reaper is a necro, so it's loaded with boon strip/corrupts, effectively turning itself into the counter to its own counter.

[Buran.3796]

   Necro is easier to play and currently meta in PvP at both ranked and tournaments; Guardian is harder to play and while has effective builds at ranked (WB, DH and core both as bruiser and support) only support guardian was meta in tournaments and lately has been overshadowed by support  Chronomancer. In WvW both are meta at zergs and in roaming the main downside of both were the low mobility but both Willbender and Harbinger and their last weapons did solved most of their problems. At PvE for groups both are strong but in solo play Necro is better because the inherent tankiness of the high HP + shoud and also because can deliver very high damage with quite simple imputs, whereas DH and FB can deliver good damage but are squishy and WB has good self sustain but requires  very high imputs x minute in order to work.

   So, overall Necro is easier to learn and requires less effort to do the same.

[Mhina.1827]

12 hours ago, Endo.1652 said:

Necro is easier to pick up mechanically. Just remember when playing it, positioning and kiting is everything. This applies to all classes but necro the most.

Youre not really fighting to hold a mode. You're fighting to make sure you're alive and enough of the enemy team is dead so you  can win control of the map with your team

Go necro. I heavily disagree with this notion that you'll be heavily punished for poor positioning. Necro is probably the BEST class to have this issue with, as your panic buttons not only save your life but often just straight up reverse the fight in your favor. Especially on condi reaper. It's as dominant as it is for a reason. 

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

4 hours ago, Mhina.1827 said:

Go necro. I heavily disagree with this notion that you'll be heavily punished for poor positioning. Necro is probably the BEST class to have this issue with, as your panic buttons not only save your life but often just straight up reverse the fight in your favor. Especially on condi reaper. It's as dominant as it is for a reason. 

Without blocks, invuln or extra evades you do not last at all if you have poor positiong. 20k hp of shroud gets burned very fast considering the amount of damage output that specs output right now, a single burst from a vindicator, willbender, ranger or warrior can entirely delete your reaper shroud. It is more forgiving if you are in a 1v1 but in a mid fight or node control fight if you don't position well you are dead. Just take a look at AT and watch how fast a reaper dies if badly positioned, and if it survives it's because enemy team was chasing another kill

[Buran.3796]

^ Between fear, chill and boon coruption access Necro has more than enough toold to deal with pressure, even outnumbered. Necro causes wreack and disruption in teamfights and albeit oftenly is focused part of your duties are to ensure your support partners have good oportunity to assist you if is needed (so don't go solo a node if the Chrono or Druid or Guardian are skirmishing in the other side of the map):

[Dadnir.5038]

Try both and play whatever you like most. It won't take you much more time and you'll at least start to learn the weaknesses of the profession you didn't chose in the end.

As a matter of fact, if you're gonna play in competitive modes, it will be a lot better for you to have some first person experience with each profession.

[Mhina.1827]

15 hours ago, NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:

Without blocks, invuln or extra evades you do not last at all if you have poor positiong. 20k hp of shroud gets burned very fast considering the amount of damage output that specs output right now, a single burst from a vindicator, willbender, ranger or warrior can entirely delete your reaper shroud. It is more forgiving if you are in a 1v1 but in a mid fight or node control fight if you don't position well you are dead. Just take a look at AT and watch how fast a reaper dies if badly positioned, and if it survives it's because enemy team was chasing another kill

I don't mean to be rude but sometimes takes like this feel disingenuous. I just played a match that had 5 necromancers in it. 5. I didn't even know that could happen. Maybe they switched after the fact. But in any case, sure if you're not pressing buttons you can be burst down quickly. But 1 v 1 you can fight just about anything considering you can apply EXTREME pressure before your opponent even gets to you with staff and pistol, the fear and chill has usually overwhelmed most of their defenses in addition to all of the condi you're laying down. Once they finally close the gap, you have your shroud, which in addition to providing you with mobility, absurd damage, more combo fields to provide MORE chill, and an extra hp bar, also provides access to some of the longest CC chains in the game. In team fights, you still have all of this with the potential luxury of a support and other additional sources of pressure. And if you're running the increasingly popular death magic variant, you're stacking toughness and more damage stats via Carapace for pretty much everything you do. And to say that looking at an AT for examples of how quickly it can die...AT's are typically organized parties. This is a beginner. I highly doubt what's gonna happen in ATs will affect his play experience too much. Guardian doesn't have anything that'll offer the perfect balance of damage, survivability, and easy of play all in one that condi reaper offers. 

Edited July 13 by Mhina.1827

[Shagie.7612]

guys no you don't understand
i'm balanced because i die if i overextend and don't press my buttons and just screw up in general
nobody else suffers from that, it's just what i play

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

9 hours ago, Mhina.1827 said:

I don't mean to be rude but sometimes takes like this feel disingenuous. I just played a match that had 5 necromancers in it. 5. I didn't even know that could happen. Maybe they switched after the fact. But in any case, sure if you're not pressing buttons you can be burst down quickly. But 1 v 1 you can fight just about anything considering you can apply EXTREME pressure before your opponent even gets to you with staff and pistol, the fear and chill has usually overwhelmed most of their defenses in addition to all of the condi you're laying down. Once they finally close the gap, you have your shroud, which in addition to providing you with mobility, absurd damage, more combo fields to provide MORE chill, and an extra hp bar, also provides access to some of the longest CC chains in the game. In team fights, you still have all of this with the potential luxury of a support and other additional sources of pressure. And if you're running the increasingly popular death magic variant, you're stacking toughness and more damage stats via Carapace for pretty much everything you do. And to say that looking at an AT for examples of how quickly it can die...AT's are typically organized parties. This is a beginner. I highly doubt what's gonna happen in ATs will affect his play experience too much. Guardian doesn't have anything that'll offer the perfect balance of damage, survivability, and easy of play all in one that condi reaper offers. 

There a big difference beetween the clearly overtuned, via pistol torch combo, condi reaper(which imo should be nerfed) and the rest of necromancer builds on various specs. Do you think you could get same results like condi reaper with power harbinger, power reaper or power core? I don't think so. Condi reaper also benefit from the garbage balance of condition builds which require 1 stat(condi damage) to be effective vs power builds who require 3 stat(power,prec,fero).

The fact that people stack specific specs is nothing new, it has always happened with any spec that is currently overtuned.

I'm just stating facts necromancer survivability heavily decrease in team fights especially if you are poorly positioned( is true for other classes? yes, but how badly depends on the class, and i'm not saying necromancer is the worst at survivability).

It cannot tank potentially infinite amount of dmg like an invuln, evade or continuos block, shroud can absord a finite amount of damage and it degenerates too.

Does this mean that necro is weak? No. Is it easier for new players? Of course, because most new player don't know how to counter a necromancer.

And my reference to ATs, is just to make player reflects at how fast the supposed heavy survivability of necromancer decrease the moment it faces competent players.

And to answer op post, pick necromancer condi reaper it's easier than any other spec of necromancer it works well in pve,pvp and wvw

Edited July 14 by NecroSummonsMors.7816

[Mhina.1827]

6 hours ago, NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:

There a big difference beetween the clearly overtuned, via pistol torch combo, condi reaper(which imo should be nerfed) and the rest of necromancer builds on various specs. Do you think you could get same results like condi reaper with power harbinger, power reaper or power core? I don't think so. Condi reaper also benefit from the garbage balance of condition builds which require 1 stat(condi damage) to be effective vs power builds who require 3 stat(power,prec,fero).

The fact that people stack specific specs is nothing new, it has always happened with any spec that is currently overtuned.

I'm just stating facts necromancer survivability heavily decrease in team fights especially if you are poorly positioned( is true for other classes? yes, but how badly depends on the class, and i'm not saying necromancer is the worst at survivability).

It cannot tank potentially infinite amount of dmg like an invuln, evade or continuos block, shroud can absord a finite amount of damage and it degenerates too.

Does this mean that necro is weak? No. Is it easier for new players? Of course, because most new player don't know how to counter a necromancer.

And my reference to ATs, is just to make player reflects at how fast the supposed heavy survivability of necromancer decrease the moment it faces competent players.

And to answer op post, pick necromancer condi reaper it's easier than any other spec of necromancer it works well in pve,pvp and wvw

 

So your response basically says, I agree with you, it is super strong and beginner friendly (which is what the OP was asking for and what we all said), and I'm even gonna recommend the same thing that you did, but it's not invincible (which no one ever suggested)? Lol Either way, the OP has the answer, which is the whole point of the post. Cheers man

[NecroSummonsMors.7816]

On 7/13/2024 at 5:23 AM, Mhina.1827 said:

I heavily disagree with this notion that you'll be heavily punished for poor positioning. Necro is probably the BEST class to have this issue with

I disagreed with this, because necromancer is clearly not best at dealing with bad positioning, that is false even though you said probably. 

You chose to pick a specific build to prove your point, I just considered your statement globally including all necro specs and build variants

But yeah op has its answer

Edited July 14 by NecroSummonsMors.7816

[arazoth.7290]

46 minutes ago, NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:

I disagreed with this, because necromancer is clearly not best at dealing with bad positioning, that is false even though you said probably. 

You chose to pick a specific build to prove your point, I just considered your statement globally including all necro specs and build variants

But yeah op has its answer

Next expansion/patch + current things=>

Shroud reaper + shroud harbringer mobility skills, spectral walk, wurm teleport, sword mobility skills, spear mobility skills.

They have enough then and even now I don't really see a problem with bad positioning since they have enough to deal with it 🧐

[felincyriac.5981]

probably necro

 

easy to play creaper right now, you'll do well initially until you start getting into better rated games where you'll get focused and killed more readily if you don't play very safe. At the highest level of play you rarely even see creaper. But low rated players struggle vs creaper cuz they just let the reaper press all their buttons for free, unload all their burst into their shroud etc. 

[Flowki.7194]

Normally I would say don't play necro, gaurdian or warrior. They are more forgiving in general and will allow you to not die in 2 seconds in the short term, but they will hold you back in the longrun. The more forgiving nature comes with the downside of not competing as well with specs that are less forgiving at higher skill level..

 

Normally.... but play reaper, why not. Easy to learn, basically built to facetank, and is now more than viable within its role, in-fact I even see more reapears side noding.

Edited July 14 by Flowki.7194

[Endo.1652]

On 7/13/2024 at 12:23 AM, Mhina.1827 said:

Go necro. I heavily disagree with this notion that you'll be heavily punished for poor positioning. Necro is probably the BEST class to have this issue with, as your panic buttons not only save your life but often just straight up reverse the fight in your favor. Especially on condi reaper. It's as dominant as it is for a reason. 

In higher tier play, meta or not. Positioning and kiting will be what determines if you live and this matters a lot more for a necro since they dont have defensives like blocks, invulns, stealth and evades built into weapons or utilities (except harb leap). Unlike other classes do

[Endo.1652]

19 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Next expansion/patch + current things=>

Shroud reaper + shroud harbringer mobility skills, spectral walk, wurm teleport, sword mobility skills, spear mobility skills.

They have enough then and even now I don't really see a problem with bad positioning since they have enough to deal with it 🧐

I mean the chances of seeing a sword and spear necro in your game.  Sounding like a shiny pokemon

[arazoth.7290]

1 minute ago, Endo.1652 said:

I mean the chances of seeing a sword and spear necro in your game.  Sounding like a shiny pokemon

I am pretty sure it will happen more often, got to catch them all