Dump thread for Weapon improvement ideas

[Jobber.6348]

I will try to avoid weapons or skills that the devs have no interest or specifically stated that they will not change/rework/revert. This means Scepter and Surge of the Mists. 

Swords

Auto Chain

-Chain 2 sped up to 0.5s cast animation

-Chain 3 slowed down to 0.75 animation

Smoother auto chain without a noticeable long pause in the middle of the chain. 

Unrelenting Assault

-Cast windup sped up

-Initial cast range increased from 450 > 600 

-Functionality change: No longer automatically targets other enemies, only targets selected target. This means if you tab next target like a madman, you can still jump for funsies. 

To stop bugging and trying to disjoint itself onto Supply Depots and Flagpoles. I'm so done with this. 

Death Strike & Shackling Wave

-Skills shuffled a little. 

-Death Strike's (Skill 5) Initial hit and properties decoupled and moved to Shackling Wave (Skill 4) This means Shackling Wave is now a flip skill with the first hit being Death Strike's teleport.

-Shackling Wave sped up

-Death Strike now a projectile skill that has 100% Critical Hit Rate regardless of any factors and is unblockable. Deals bonus damage to enemies under 50% HP

The reshuffle makes Skill 4 a more flexible skill to use as a utility skill and the ranged Death Strike allows a Sword Revenant to finish enemies off with a dagger to their backside. Additionally in PvE, the teleport moved to Skill 4 not only allows Skill 4 to be held as a tool to rejoin the stack after a mechanic spread, but also speeds up Death Strike's main damage portion by no longer having to first go through the Initial Strike animation. 

Staff

Auto Chain

- Replaced by just the third attack on repeat. Spin that staff. Become helicopter of healing. 

Mender's Rebuke

-Animation changed into a spinning sweep.

-Radius increased to 360 radius around the player

Axe

Frigid Blitz

-Turned into a flip skill

-Initial hit is unblockable and applies Torment and Poison

-Flipskill does heavy Strike damage and Inflicts Chill

Decoupled the actual important part of the skill to be better used in Condition builds in PvE. Splitting the skill in competitive also allows the Revenant some cunning strategy and mindgaming. 

Greatsword

Imperial Guard

-Flipskill True Strike now has 900 range

-Additionally applies Immobilization to the target hit, scaling in duration based on how many attacks were blocked

Some CC for Greatsword would be awesome now wouldn't it?

 

 

 

[arazoth.7290]

Sword 3: faster cast time too/ preferably instant. I get annoyed when to use it just for enemy outranging and putting it on cd

[Jobber.6348]

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Sword 3: faster cast time too/ preferably instant. I get annoyed when to use it just for enemy outranging and putting it on cd

Yea that's what I meant by faster windup. That initial windup is way too slow and telegraphed. 

[Knighthonor.4061]

I want better healing on Staff like Warrior Staff, or better Condi Removal on allies or tank tier defense. Something has to come to this weapon. Right now its not good enough in WvW post Support Rev nerf

[Jobber.6348]

6 hours ago, Knighthonor.4061 said:

I want better healing on Staff like Warrior Staff, or better Condi Removal on allies or tank tier defense. Something has to come to this weapon. Right now its not good enough in WvW post Support Rev nerf

Yea that's why wanna see how much healing is actually possible with perma spinning Staff auto 3. 

Staff chain 3 is a Whirl finisher with a 240 radius heal. What I'm envisioning is that Staff chain 1 and 2 are just removed and the Revenant auto is just spinning that over their head non stop healing. You can probably press and hold 1 and just keep healing in an AoE, and cleave anything in your way. Whirl finishers are also amazing with things like Combo Fields so if we just had a Lightfield somewhere, it becomes Cleansing Bolts spam. So far only Centaur has Light Field but I'm worried it could be too busted if staff itself can put a field down. 

This is along the same vein as Druid's funny healing beam auto except it's melee ranged and needs no target. 

I feel like it has potential for being a unique tool only Revenant staff can pull off. Additionally, you can use Staff auto Whirl together with Soulcleave's summit to send out Burning Bolts, making this a defensive Condi weapon as well.

 

Edited July 17 by Jobber.6348

[arazoth.7290]

Indeed, they should pay some nice attention to these weapons soon!

(and of ofcourse the last 2, scepter and spear)

[Ravenwulfe.5360]

I really have nothing to add. I think the staff stance needs to be changed. It still upsets me we hold it like a hammer when we do all those fancy twirls and effects. At least let us hold it like the daredevil/spear stance.

Scepter... oh my lord this weapon needs to be un uglified. Get rid of that stupid laser beam kitten effect, change it from being friendly or hostile and just give the full effect on hostile targeting. Also give it a cleanse, it's competing with the staff after all it doesn't have a break bar in it for Gat's sake.

The spear, I have nothing really on this. It just needs to go back to the drawing board. I don't have a clue what they were thinking, feels like it was slapped together last minute, the fact it's suppose to be a land spear and they give it a lot of watery effects has me going huh? and don't get me started on that whole mine thing. And let's not even get into it being a terrible condition weapon. Anyone else feel the engineer spear effects would have suited better like that summon spear to throw at enemies thing. Speaking of why are we not throwing it through the void? Why is the bow the only weapon with a cool effect?

Edited July 17 by Ravenwulfe.5360

[vilesoldier.9826]

As much as I enjoy the evade-bug plays when you outrange Sw3, yeah reduce the cast time and inc the range already. Outranging feelbad but getting CC'd feelsworse

If you're suggesting a single target Sw3 with the option for tab target, then I'd say a +2 might for each new target struck makes sense as an incentive to swap

True Strike at 900 range immob seems random, gonna need an explanation on that one

 

*inb4 I see it, no, do not remove shield root 🙏*

Edited July 17 by vilesoldier.9826

[Jobber.6348]

9 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

True Strike at 900 range immob seems random, gonna need an explanation on that one

Basically changes it from a slow cleave after blocking attacks into a slow ranged attack against 1 target which you throw at them.

Instead of MOAR DAMAGE, blocks scale up the duration of the Immob.

Reasoning: GS needs more utility and a movement inhibitior like Immob or Stun would be much appreciated to land GS5.

[vilesoldier.9826]

45 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Basically changes it from a slow cleave after blocking attacks into a slow ranged attack against 1 target which you throw at them.

Instead of MOAR DAMAGE, blocks scale up the duration of the Immob.

Reasoning: GS needs more utility and a movement inhibitior like Immob or Stun would be much appreciated to land GS5.

 

its a shame I wrote a spiel about projectiles as a utility being inconsistent then I remembered everything moves at lightspeed ~

immob feels more reasonable than a ranged stun too (one of the more cringe forms of stun imo), but then I remembered everything has resistance ~

almost as if Anet incentivizes new bs to work around existing bs😞

 

Edited July 17 by vilesoldier.9826

[Jobber.6348]

4 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said:

 

its a shame I wrote a spiel about projectiles as a utility being inconsistent then I remembered everything moves at lightspeed ~

immob feels more reasonable than a ranged stun too (one of the more cringe forms of stun imo), but then I remembered everything has resistance ~

almost as if Anet incentivizes new bs to work around existing bs😞

 

It's fine, it doesn't have to be OP and counter-proof.

It just needs to exist. Counterplay is my enemy's responsibility, not mine.

[Jobber.6348]

I'm so sick of GS 3's "rush" which reads 900 Range but is only 450 with a weird +150 range track to an enemy within range. It's so clunky and inconsistent. This needs to be improved. 

Suggestion is to make it a 600 range leap. Not a dash, just a simple leap that ends in a cone shaped cleave. I feel like it should have an evade too but maybe some people think it's too much. 

[Angesombre.4630]

It's not as if the bug has been there since EoD was released. But maybe in 4 years time they'll read the messages and fix it. It says 900 and it's like going for the target around 800. And yes, without a target it's barely 450 over there.

[mirage.8046]

17 hours ago, Jobber.6348 said:

I'm so sick of GS 3's "rush" which reads 900 Range but is only 450 with a weird +150 range track to an enemy within range. It's so clunky and inconsistent. This needs to be improved. 

Suggestion is to make it a 600 range leap. Not a dash, just a simple leap that ends in a cone shaped cleave. I feel like it should have an evade too but maybe some people think it's too much. 

tooltips can never be trusted heh. that same skill grants fury for each foe struck, and the tooltip does not mention fury whatsoever. you're not wrong about dash-type skills because a lot of them are clunky.

[Jobber.6348]

2 hours ago, mirage.8046 said:

tooltips can never be trusted heh. that same skill grants fury for each foe struck, and the tooltip does not mention fury whatsoever. you're not wrong about dash-type skills because a lot of them are clunky.

It seems to me the skill actually works like this:

Skill part 1: Phantom Onslaught Rush
Range: 450 
Rushes toward your enemy, attempting to hit them. 

Skill part 2: Phantom Onslaught Slash
Range: 150

Radius 300(360)

Cleaves your enemies, granting Fury per enemy struck. 

If this is the case and the real design of the GS3, then the improvements could be easily targeted: 
Skill part 1 needs to be 600 range dash and grants an Evade.
Skill part 2 is fine as it is provided skill part 1 is buffed. 

Edited August 7 by Jobber.6348

[Angesombre.4630]

If we're into weapons, modifying the axe's skill 4 is a piece of crap. My problem with it isn't the pursuit, it's the effect that goes far and is less useful than before because of its reduced control.

I'm a bit disappointed by the decrease in combo of the 3 mass cometence.

On Mender's Rebuke stick, the small delay for heal can be removed.

The sceptre is a boring weapon to play again, frankly. I know I don't use it, but the few times I've played it, it's no fun to use at all.

[Jobber.6348]

2 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

If we're into weapons, modifying the axe's skill 4 is a piece of crap. My problem with it isn't the pursuit, it's the effect that goes far and is less useful than before because of its reduced control.

The original post suggestion was to turn it into a two part: 

The throw part which mainly does Conditions and minimal strike damage
The chase part which does heavy strike damage and no Conditions

Imo would be best for both control and mindgaming, just making the skill less chaotic to throw out in any fight.

2 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

On Mender's Rebuke stick, the small delay for heal can be removed.

100% agree. I don't quite like the delay. 

 

2 hours ago, Angesombre.4630 said:

The sceptre is a boring weapon to play again, frankly. I know I don't use it, but the few times I've played it, it's no fun to use at all.

As I said, I doubt Anet wants to change the identity of it but if we want to make it better with minimal changes here's how to do it: 
 

Skill 2:

Simple and easy: you cast it as a ground targeted AoE and it pulses barrier then explodes for a blast finisher and damage. The final blast Heals allies and deals damage to enemies, knocking them down. 

Skill 3: 

When targeting an enemy, you point the scepter at the target, channeling a beam of damage and conditioning the target. When the channel finishes, the tether yanks the enemy in. 
Any allies in between you and the target in the beam's hitbox will be granted boons per second. Can also simply target an ally to channel the beam if there are no enemies to cast this beam onto. 

 

Edited August 7 by Jobber.6348

[Mangoyami.2418]

I'm not smart enough for the nitty gritty math of revenant but, I feel like new weapons would've been improved if they had been tied to the legends we have like trident is, instead of inventing incredibly loose lore justifications for scepter and spear..

"Revenants who first heft their spear in battle often say that it reminds them of creation through destruction." what is this, some sort of incredibly loose abaddon lore for the one enemy we're MAYBE fighting in janthir? 

"Revenants wield scepters in an unorthodox way that is unique to their profession. Having observed the Kryptis in battle, they draw upon their ability to connect individuals together using the scepter as a conduit" I don't quite feel I'm connecting the feeling of my anger at scepter 2 & 3 being nerfed by 50% in competitive on an already weak weapon.

I like trident for soloing the water fractal (precursor and the great krait treasure hunt) when friends aren't on and I don't wanna e-beg for help doing >achieve i need<. Why can't more weapons be designed around what we have if we're not getting any more elites for the time being?

I don't even remember my hype thoughts for scepter anymore really. I thought maybe a ranged weapon even though that was foolishly impossible with the utter lack of ranged offhands other than shield which is a shield and works with anything. with something just average on 2 that did damage and/or a condi but a 3 skill that changed based on your legend. maybe a buff for allies or damage to enemies.. Well that all went out the windows since the kryptis didn't FEEL the same

land spear 😕 just make it trident bro the ideas are already there you could even BS your way into it being about abaddon anyway with him being the god of magic and stuff, torment, fire, chill (more torment) it's all there guys.

Edited August 12 by Mangoyami.2418
fractals - clarification

[Jobber.6348]

On 8/10/2024 at 12:37 PM, Mangoyami.2418 said:

I'm not smart enough for the nitty gritty math of revenant but, I feel like new weapons would've been improved if they had been tied to the legends we have like trident is, instead of inventing incredibly loose lore justifications for scepter and spear..

"Revenants who first heft their spear in battle often say that it reminds them of creation through destruction." what is this, some sort of incredibly loose abaddon lore for the one enemy we're MAYBE fighting in janthir? 

"Revenants wield scepters in an unorthodox way that is unique to their profession. Having observed the Kryptis in battle, they draw upon their ability to connect individuals together using the scepter as a conduit" I don't quite feel I'm connecting the feeling of my anger at scepter 2 & 3 being nerfed by 50% in competitive on an already weak weapon.

I like trident for soloing the water fractal (precursor and the great krait treasure hunt) when friends aren't on and I don't wanna e-beg for help doing >achieve i need<. Why can't more weapons be designed around what we have if we're not getting any more elites for the time being?

I don't even remember my hype thoughts for scepter anymore really. I thought maybe a ranged weapon even though that was foolishly impossible with the utter lack of ranged offhands other than shield which is a shield and works with anything. with something just average on 2 that did damage and/or a condi but a 3 skill that changed based on your legend. maybe a buff for allies or damage to enemies.. Well that all went out the windows since the kryptis didn't FEEL the same

land spear 😕 just make it trident bro the ideas are already there you could even BS your way into it being about abaddon anyway with him being the god of magic and stuff, torment, fire, chill (more torment) it's all there guys.

I understand your desire for such a weapon but there are some of the older Revenant players who share the vision that each weapon should facilitate a playstyle instead of being multipurpose. Multipurpose weapons also tend to be ridiculously hard to balance and since Revenant isn't Ele, the consensus is to simply go play Ele instead while Revenant has always been more about their utilities facilitating their playstyle-switching. 

I think it'll be much better if such a mechanic was instead placed in Invocation as a minor trait that empowered your Auto Attacks based on current Attuned Legend. This wouldn't be too out of place either as the traitline that manages Legend swapping. Here's an idea to consider: 

Charged Mists moved to Grandmaster Minor, replacing Contained Temper. 

New Grandmaster: 

Might of the Mists

Your Profession Skill 2 grants properties based on the Invoked Legend. Lasts for 10s. 

Shiro: Your attacks gain a second attack that is unblockable. (Mini Impossible Odds with 1s ICD) 

Mallyx: Your attacks transfers a damaging Condition to your target. 

Ventari: Your attacks heal around you.

Jalis: Your attacks grant you Barrier. 

Glint: Your attacks extend Boons around you by 1 second. 

Kalla: Your attacks inflict Bleeding. After 3 strikes gain Band Together. 

Alliance: Your attacks reduce the cooldown of Alliance Tactics. 

[arazoth.7290]

4 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

 

Alliance: Your attacks reduce the cooldown of Alliance Tactics. 

+ Your next Alliance skill gives empowered effect at a small (5) reduced energy cost.

Only a reduced cd on alliance tactics is little underwhelming compared to the other extra effects you gave for stances 

[Jobber.6348]

2 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

+ Your next Alliance skill gives empowered effect at a small (5) reduced energy cost.

Only a reduced cd on alliance tactics is little underwhelming compared to the other extra effects you gave for stances 

I just have no idea what to give. I mean sure could go for Endurance but that doesn't exactly scream Alliance, it just screams DODGE MORE. Maybe Boons? But Alliance isn't Boon-y. Someone probably has a better idea than me for that one. 

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Jobber.6348 said:

I just have no idea what to give. I mean sure could go for Endurance but that doesn't exactly scream Alliance, it just screams DODGE MORE. Maybe Boons? But Alliance isn't Boon-y. Someone probably has a better idea than me for that one. 

What would scream alliance if both sides temporarily united, affecting your attacks too then like the others you wrote.

So that your attacks do something extra on offense/support same time. Some brainstorming: attacks gives on enemy confusion condi and on ally resolution boon.

 

[Virdo.1540]

They should make Shield 4 a placeable AoE like Guard Staff 2, because having a slow flying projectile which gets caught by invuln enemies is just kitten

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

1 hour ago, Virdo.1540 said:

They should make Shield 4 a placeable AoE like Guard Staff 2, because having a slow flying projectile which gets caught by invuln enemies is just kitten

I always thought they should make it like guardian shield 4.... I mean kitten it does the same 2 boons now too. Just add a cool fiery orange/glint blue fire wave animation and attach some burning and chill to it and it becomes a solid 600u frontal cone heal and damage ability for both healers and condi bunkers.

[Jobber.6348]

5 hours ago, Virdo.1540 said:

They should make Shield 4 a placeable AoE like Guard Staff 2, because having a slow flying projectile which gets caught by invuln enemies is just kitten

Or a Line/Cone shaped blast of energy that just cleaves all your allies. Maybe make it Blind enemies too. Call it Flash of Brilliance

Now that would be really cool.