Vindi Hammer still too strong

[Yerlock.4678]

all in title. This needed a nerf a while ago.

[arazoth.7290]

1 minute ago, Yerlock.4678 said:

all in title. This needed a nerf a while ago.

bruhhhh, litarly just wait till Tuesday m. so impatient... next Tuesday they have action taken dw.

[Codename T.2847]

16 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

bruhhhh, litarly just wait till Tuesday m. so impatient... next Tuesday they have action taken dw.

Instructions unclear. Nerfed Engi and Ele builds

[Jagdtiger.2517]

How are you guys dying to hammer vindicator lmao. It's literally the most telegraphed spec to ever exist. They could make the 3 skill literally one shot people and it would still be trash.

[Asuran.5469]

hammer auto hit like death judgement

needs big damage nerf not just death drop

[Flowki.7194]

In the 1/20 games I see a vindi, who is very likely a p1/2 player.. I just lol at full teams letting him free cast all game. Im more likely to fully side with vindi nerf claims if I stop seing that regular occurence. For real, imagine letting a spec, in the hands of a p1/2 player, that is designed to do nothing but DPS.. freely do DPS.. its hilarious to watch.. becuase the vindi isn't WB F3 jumping. A gold 1 player who knows how to time CC can litterally fk with a p2 vindi in a group fight, and make him leave, but nobody does it, too busy chasing the reaper.

[Yerlock.4678]

22 hours ago, arazoth.7290 said:

bruhhhh, litarly just wait till Tuesday m. so impatient... next Tuesday they have action taken dw.

It's been months, not being impatient lol

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Yerlock.4678 said:

It's been months, not being impatient lol

5 daysssssssssssssssss, urghhh why do I waste my breath (fingers typing)

Edited August 15 by arazoth.7290

[Gotejjeken.1267]

3 hours ago, Flowki.7194 said:

In the 1/20 games I see a vindi, who is very likely a p1/2 player.. I just lol at full teams letting him free cast all game. Im more likely to fully side with vindi nerf claims if I stop seing that regular occurence. For real, imagine letting a spec, in the hands of a p1/2 player, that is designed to do nothing but DPS.. freely do DPS.. its hilarious to watch.. becuase the vindi isn't WB F3 jumping. A gold 1 player who knows how to time CC can litterally fk with a p2 vindi in a group fight, and make him leave, but nobody does it, too busy chasing the reaper.

This is true, if I see a Vindi it's going to me my first target to shut down.

Meanwhile...someone is calling target on the core guard and drawing wangs on the map while pinging like it's a game of battleship.  

[Sahne.6950]

9 hours ago, Gotejjeken.1267 said:

Meanwhile...someone is calling target on the core guard and drawing wangs on the map while pinging like it's a game of battleship.  

didnt think i would get personally attacked today.

[jdawgie.1835]

@Sahne.6950 @Gotejjeken.1267 

Its WILD during a match the amount of tunneling that happens. People letting Revs, WBs, Thieves and Mez, free cast DPS. While they chase the warrior or support gaurdian and then come here and cry for nerfs. I had a few games like this yesterday.  My favorite is everyone getting rolled by a DE or Rev and no ones responds to it like hes not really there. But then all of mid folds. Then here come the typers and the targeting of their own teammates and trash talk -but these fools killed them selves. 💀

Edited August 16 by jdawgie.1835

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

15 hours ago, jdawgie.1835 said:

@Sahne.6950 @Gotejjeken.1267 

Its WILD during a match the amount of tunneling that happens. People letting Revs, WBs, Thieves and Mez, free cast DPS. While they chase the warrior or support gaurdian and then come here and cry for nerfs. I had a few games like this yesterday.  My favorite is everyone getting rolled by a DE or Rev and no ones responds to it like hes not really there. But then all of mid folds. Then here come the typers and the targeting of their own teammates and trash talk -but these fools killed them selves. 💀

Except 4 people can kill a WBer, Thief, Mes in about 2-4 seconds when you focus it.

Good Vindicators sky dodge kite for 30-40 seconds when 4 people chase them, burning everyone's CDs, which allows the WBer, Thief, Mes, to freecast. So groups are choosing between ignore 1 person "the Vindi" while he freecasts and keep 3 others pressured, or try to focus Vindi and let the 3 others freecast. That is what happens. The large majority of players out there are not P+ to be accurate enough to actually + into a Vindi and shut it down quickly enough for it to be worth dumping CDs into. This is why they get ignored. Fact remains, current Vindicator is shoving out way too much DPS for its sustain potential.

Good Vindicators are also figuring out just how broken Sky Dodge really is. So lately they jump/dodge during Sky Dodge, and it allows them to achieve vertical jump heights that other classes cannot perform. They use this to power kite up into weird places and survive like cockroaches. One place I see it used often is in Legacy near mid on the side where there is a little stone building near the drop to mid coming from home. Vindicators can Sky Jump right up onto that little building very easily with jump/dodge to get free disengage. A few other classes can also climb this little building but it requires a great deal of precision positioning and bringing specific tools to be able to do it. In other words, other classes have to perform something like a JP to climb this little building. The Vindicator though, can just casually bypass that JP and jump right up it to escape 1v4s.

That extra vertical jump height that Vindi gets also needs to nerfed. It's actually incredibly abusive/busted when sweaty players start wielding it for power kiting.

Edited August 17 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[arazoth.7290]

11 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Except 4 people can kill a WBer, Thief, Mes in about 2-4 seconds when you focus it.

Good Vindicators sky dodge kite for 30-40 seconds when 4 people chase them, burning everyone's CDs, which allows the WBer, Thief, Mes, to freecast. So groups are choosing between ignore 1 person "the Vindi" while he freecasts and keep 3 others pressured, or try to focus Vindi and let the 3 others freecast. That is what happens. The large majority of players out there are not P+ to be accurate enough to actually + into a Vindi and shut it down quickly enough for it to be worth dumping CDs into. This is why they get ignored. Fact remains, current Vindicator is shoving out way too much DPS for its sustain potential.

Good Vindicators are also figuring out just how broken Sky Dodge really is. So lately they jump/dodge during Sky Dodge, and it allows them to achieve vertical jump heights that other classes cannot perform. They use this to power kite up into weird places and survive like cockroaches. One place I see it used often is in Legacy near mid on the side where there is a little stone building near the drop to mid coming from home. Vindicators can Sky Jump right up onto that little building very easily with jump/dodge to get free disengage. A few other classes can also climb this little building but it requires a great deal of precision positioning and bringing specific tools to be able to do it. In other words, other classes have to perform something like a JP to climb this little building. The Vindicator though, can just casually bypass that JP and jump right up it to escape 1v4s.

That extra vertical jump height that Vindi gets also needs to nerfed. It's actually incredibly abusive/busted when sweaty players start wielding it for power kiting.

every class can dodge+press space bar jump  if done in sync to go to these places, look it up

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

13 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

every class can dodge+press space bar jump  if done in sync to go to these places, look it up

It's a lot easier to do on a Vindi. The Sky Dodge surpasses the vertical limitations of other classes.

Lately they also use it to easily, keyword there easily, get into people's spawn areas. It's too easy to do with Vindi.

The vertical reach of Vindi dodging needs to be brough down to that of normal classes. I think the reason why Vindi dodge is "surpassing the vertical limits of other classes" is because it hangs in the air during its dodge at its maximum vertical arc instead of dropping from normal physics. During a horizontal jump to a ledge let's say, it hangs at it's max vertical position for way longer than other classes, for the purpose of actually making it up to high point during a horizontal jump. Even things like Ranger GS3 or even Engi Rifle5, for the horizontal length these have, they do not achieve the kind of vertical that Vindi Sky Dodge does.

Edited August 17 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[Unknown.6851]

12 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's a lot easier to do on a Vindi. The Sky Dodge surpasses the vertical limitations of other classes.

Lately they also use it to easily, keyword there easily, get into people's spawn areas. It's too easy to do with Vindi.

The vertical reach of Vindi dodging needs to be nerfed.

They need to quite changing dodge mechanics in general. They immediately become overtuned and create problems everytime, yet they walk right back into it each xpac with some class dodge mechanic. iframes are the antithesis to competition, and this isn't saying dodges are bad because they're the perfect amount of iframe to make an impact but not be overtuned.. this also goes for invulns.. they genuinely suck, but fortunately they actually tick down the node... 

Edited August 17 by Unknown.6851

[arazoth.7290]

8 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's a lot easier to do on a Vindi. The Sky Dodge surpasses the vertical limitations of other classes.

Lately they also use it to easily, keyword there easily, get into people's spawn areas. It's too easy to do with Vindi.

The vertical reach of Vindi dodging needs to be brough down to that of normal classes. I think the reason why Vindi dodge is "surpassing the vertical limits of other classes" is because it hangs in the air during its dodge at its maximum vertical arc instead of dropping from normal physics. During a horizontal jump to a ledge let's say, it hangs at it's max vertical position for way longer than other classes, for the purpose of actually making it up to high point during a horizontal jump. Even things like Ranger GS3 or even Engi Rifle5, for the horizontal length these have, they do not achieve the kind of vertical that Vindi Sky Dodge does.

It's harder for other classes like that.

But lets not forget that many other classes can use targetted teleports to certain spots others can't acces with ease either...

So in the end you can see it like a small spec perk like some specs/classes have targetted teleports which are superior (ele, thiefs, engi(mecha), mesmer, willbender

[arazoth.7290]

12 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

It's a lot easier to do on a Vindi. The Sky Dodge surpasses the vertical limitations of other classes.

Lately they also use it to easily, keyword there easily, get into people's spawn areas. It's too easy to do with Vindi.

The vertical reach of Vindi dodging needs to be brough down to that of normal classes. I think the reason why Vindi dodge is "surpassing the vertical limits of other classes" is because it hangs in the air during its dodge at its maximum vertical arc instead of dropping from normal physics. During a horizontal jump to a ledge let's say, it hangs at it's max vertical position for way longer than other classes, for the purpose of actually making it up to high point during a horizontal jump. Even things like Ranger GS3 or even Engi Rifle5, for the horizontal length these have, they do not achieve the kind of vertical that Vindi Sky Dodge does.

Fix first the big vindi bugs and the vindi bugs in dodge before asking any of this...

Because the bugs haven't been addressed on it since release of it

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

15 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

It's harder for other classes like that.

But lets not forget that many other classes can use targetted teleports to certain spots others can't acces with ease either...

So in the end you can see it like a small spec perk like some specs/classes have targetted teleports which are superior (ele, thiefs, engi(mecha), mesmer, willbender

I'm talking about Vindicators being able to easily jump up into weird no-port spots, where class teleports cannot get to.

We are talking about 1 class that can access areas that other classes cannot. And IF some things can follow it at all, it requires complex Mad King Clocktower level JP skills to do it.

This is no small class perk. It's a massive advantage that further bloats its kite potential into a place that no class should ever be accessing.

To put this into perspective, one could say: "This is as cheesy as a hack that allows a person to clip through the floor and hide from any/all attacks, that allows them to come back whenever they feel like it."

Edited August 17 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[arazoth.7290]

2 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

I'm talking about Vindicators being able to easily jump up into weird no-port spots, where class teleports cannot get to.

We are talking about 1 class that can access areas that other classes cannot. And IF some things can follow it at all, it requires complex Mad King Clocktower level JP skills to do it.

This is no small class perk. It's a massive advantage that further bloats its kite potential into a place that no class should ever be accessing.

First fix the bugs on the spec which have been present.

 

Because no class should be able to get cc'd during their dodge either, which is present on vindi with other dodge bugs and bugs in the spec.

Fix these before anything else first thanks in regards 

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

4 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

Because no class should be able to get cc'd during their dodge either, which is present on vindi with other dodge bugs and bugs in the spec.

That's not a bug dude. Everyone gets CC'd by precast CCs during dodges & evades.

Example: Magebane Tether or DH F1 pull, will CC anyone out of a dodge/evade if the pull is triggered mid dodge/evade.

That's just how the game is and that is natural drawback for Vindi's ultra elongated Sky Dodge.

Thanks for bringing this up though. It just made sense why so many DHs were showing up again. Probably counters Vindi.

Edited August 17 by Trevor Boyer.6524

[arazoth.7290]

55 minutes ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

That's not a bug dude. Everyone gets CC'd by precast CCs during dodges & evades.

Example: Magebane Tether or DH F1 pull, will CC anyone out of a dodge/evade if the pull is triggered mid dodge/evade.

That's just how the game is and that is natural drawback for Vindi's ultra elongated Sky Dodge.

Thanks for bringing this up though. It just made sense why so many DHs were showing up again. Probably counters Vindi.

every cc can cc during vindi evade between the time un dodge where it is bugged. Dazes, stuns, litarly all during these specific times in the dodge where it is bugged

[jdawgie.1835]

14 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Except 4 people can kill a WBer, Thief, Mes in about 2-4 seconds when you focus it.

I dont know if you know this but that is the entire point of my post...........................? Out of curiosity did you miss that and give me the confused react? 

14 hours ago, Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

Except 4 people can kill

The "except" part suggests to me you are picking a bone with my statement otherwise the word is out of context and the entire reason I said what I said was because focusing down the professions I listed and burning them down is the way to go. Which is what you said, so why did you write this?

On 8/16/2024 at 12:14 PM, jdawgie.1835 said:

Its WILD during a match the amount of tunneling that happens. People letting Revs, WBs, Thieves and Mez, free cast DPS

This is very obviously me saying people should not be ignoring these professions while they free cast DPS. What was the point you're trying to convey to me Trevor. 

[Jobber.6348]

I feel like this is a L2P post. Literally countered by projectile reflects and projectile hate and they don't have unblockables up the butt. 

But sure, I'll bite, let's say it IS indeed too strong. 

Don't nerf weapons, nerf the overperforming Espec. The main culprit is Vindicator having sustained 25% Strike damage buff. 

EoD Especs have long been overtuned as heck. Willbender, Harbinger, Vindicator, Untamed, Catalyst are the ones you see almost every match who are just kicking butt while staying insanely stacked. Weapons should not suffer for an Espec's unbalance.

Also, can we address the blatant lies in this thread? 

Vindicators absolutely CANNOT "jump up" impossible locations via their dodge. It's more likely they used Nomad's Advance to leap across a gap onto that location, which is a very common practice every class with non target leaps can pull off. This is a high level mechanic, I suggest learning it on all the maps you play. And besides, some "unreachable ports" are only done so via ground target teleports, of which Revenant has none.

You wanna talk about "class perks" why not talk about ground targeted shadowsteps, Stealth access or immense projectile hate that some class has a privilege of and others do not? No? We don't wanna talk about that? Then move on.

 

[Shagie.7612]

24 minutes ago, Jobber.6348 said:

Vindicators absolutely CANNOT "jump up" impossible locations via their dodge.

 You can in fact make dodge jumps that are literally impossible on anything else with Vindicator jump, such as going up the sides of a bunch of the boxes in Coliseum.

Edited August 18 by Shagie.7612

[Jobber.6348]

11 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

 You can in fact make dodge jumps that are literally impossible on anything else with Vindicator jump, such as going up the sides of a bunch of the boxes in Coliseum.

Do you have a video of an example? I'm aware of jump skips via Dodge + Jump which seems like what you're describing but everyone can perform this maneuver with keybindings.

Unless I see the specific jump, I have nothing to go off on based on words, sorry.