Bad enemy design - almost permanent boon corrupt AoEs

[ZenDrake.8316]

1 minute ago, RyasmaRaven.6018 said:

builds that wouldn't need the constant cleansing bc they don't throw out boons 24/7

Unless you got that random qHerald standing next to you. Or a firebrand opening it's tomes. Boons are unavoidable, and that shouldn't be a problem at all because they are a core part of the combat system. It's being utilised in all kinds of high end PvE content, and now you are being punished for it in the "casual" content? Absolutely genius design. Melee builds are getting the short end of the stick anyway, why punish them even more?!

1 minute ago, RyasmaRaven.6018 said:

Time to take a look at your build I guess.

Where do I turn off the boons in reaper shroud? Oh, you want me to play something completely different. Great design!

Guess it's finally time to leave the game after weekly raiding for over 6 years. I want to play builds that are fun, have a fun rotation and are actually useful in terms of damage. Even in open world. I don't want to maintain even more builds just because that one zone in the game punishes you for playing the game with one of it's core combat features, namely boons.

[RyasmaRaven.6018]

4 minutes ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

Unless you got that random qHerald standing next to you. Or a firebrand opening it's tomes. Boons are unavoidable, and that shouldn't be a problem at all because they are a core part of the combat system. It's being utilised in all kinds of high end PvE content, and now you are being punished for it in the "casual" content? Absolutely genius design. Melee builds are getting the short end of the stick anyway, why punish them even more?!

Well first off the expac's only been out for two days, so chill a bit. Everyone's adjusting, we'll likely see less boonball builds in Janthis in the coming weeks. And if you only have melee options, well I'm sorry that's on you. I've been having fun bouncing from melee to ranged and back as a reaper.

And anyway, since when has boon uptime been critical for non-organized metas like it is in organized raids/strikes? When boon uptime is critical it's organized, so you always have someone (or multiple someones) who can cleanse. Maybe this means Janthir rift trains ask for a few cleansers, and everyone else plays pretty much how they would.

5 minutes ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

Where do I turn off the boons in reaper shroud? Oh, you want me to play something completely different. Great design!

Lmao

As I said before, I've been doing just fine on reaper, shroud boons or not.

10 minutes ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

Guess it's finally time to leave the game after weekly raiding for over 6 years. I want to play builds that are fun, have a fun rotation and are actually useful in terms of damage. Even in open world. I don't want to maintain even more builds just because that one zone in the game punishes you for playing the game with one of it's core combat features, namely boons.

I'm starting to think you don't want advice and just want to complain. The game is punishing you for not engaging with one of it's core combat features, the cleanse. Or at least it's core in WvW.  It's a little silly a new and interesting enemy type is what pushes you to leave because you can't immediately counter it. Let it sit, let it mellow. We'll see what Anet does with the feedback and what nerfing/balancing they will do.

[tyburok.3420]

I'm gonna play a ranged boon providing build to troll the "boonless" players.. 

[ZenDrake.8316]

40 minutes ago, RyasmaRaven.6018 said:

It's a little silly a new and interesting enemy type is what pushes you to leave because you can't immediately counter it.

It isn't just that. Just the cherry on top. SotO strikes were either completely boring slogfests (Dagda CM) or just unfun encounters that had an INSANE difficulty spike (Cerus CM) without any middleground. The last fractal is far from fun as well, at least for me. Oh wait, they also had the completely overtuned boon corrupt in there (1 stack of envy = no more boons for you), and then they nerfed it. Strange.

The game is developing into an experience that is just very unfun for me. I enjoy the "older" content - all the raid wings (with CMs), EoD strike CMs, HoT maps (even on release). I don't mind difficult content. I do mind boon corrupt though, it is the single most unfun mechanic in the game when it comes to PvE. You really can't compare this to WvW, where boon corrupt is an important counter against your enemies (and they still gutted it, long live the invincible boon ball).

40 minutes ago, RyasmaRaven.6018 said:

The game is punishing you for not engaging with one of it's core combat features, the cleanse.

How many cleanses do I need to have if the AoEs corrupt all of my boons (that I often get from other people) every second? Again, you can't compare this to WvW because your enemies in WvW have actual cooldowns, these mobs apparently do not.

40 minutes ago, RyasmaRaven.6018 said:

And if you only have melee options, well I'm sorry that's on you. I've been having fun bouncing from melee to ranged and back as a reaper.

Most of the specs I like to play are only effective in melee range. Scrapper, Reaper (sword and axe have pretty bad damage) and Herald (granted the new spear is completely bonkers on condi builds, but unless you are fighting champions the enemy is dead already before your condis ramped up, so I prefer power builds). If Anet wants to continue to kitten over melee builds, they should just outright delete them.

40 minutes ago, RyasmaRaven.6018 said:

Maybe this means Janthir rift trains ask for a few cleansers, and everyone else plays pretty much how they would.

Here is the problem though: Most healing specs provide a lot of boons, even if they focus on cleansing. Scrapper has boons on a lot of skills, so does Tempest (more than in WvW). Druid too, of course. Might have forgotten some classic WvW cleanse specs but those are the 3 I usually play (druid not that much after alac removal).

Making people AVOID boons now is just ridiculous design in my opinion. They spent years teaching the importance of boons, and now they do a 180 on that. Playing without Alac and (especially) Quickness also feels so, so slow.

Edited August 22 by ZenDrake.8316

[RyasmaRaven.6018]

@ZenDrake.8316 ok

I'll have fun adapting to challenging content then 👋 WvW players stay winning I guess

[RyasmaRaven.6018]

1 hour ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

You really don't understand the point, do you? If you have quickness, it gets instantly corrupted to slow. And you can't stop your quickness generation if you want to play reaper.

But I guess you got me with your trolling attempts.

wait hang on I missed this

quickness is a major trait you can unspec out of it you can literally stop your quickness gen if you play reaper 😭

"but it nerfs your damage" so does corrputing your quickness you can spec out oml I beg you learn your class a bit more learn all the condi transfers necro has access to

[Dark Red Killian.3946]

It makes you think and actually move and not sit in one place all the time. Also, bringing skills to remove enemy buffs is a must. Annoying, yes, especially when my main engi gets a melee spear. But, alas, I adapt to it. If these enemies didn’t do this, wouldn’t it feel like everything else up to this point? Makes it fresh and different, and I think that is a good thing in a 12 year old game.

[Scar.1793]

The problem is the AoE vomit spam.

In HoT, mobs were and still are more difficult BUT they had specific gimmicks you had to watch out for.

in JW it's yet again another layer of VFX spam that I'm genuinely unable to really see what's going on. They already got a ton of HP making them HP sponges.

Edited August 22 by Scar.1793

[ZenDrake.8316]

29 minutes ago, Dark Red Killian.3946 said:

It makes you think and actually move and not sit in one place all the time.

I will repeat myself once again: The problem is not movement. The problem is that the whole ground around enemies is plastered with evil stuff that instantly corrupts your boons, making melee builds almost impossible to play in a fun way. Forcing people into a specific playstyle (ranged in this case) for casual open world content is ridiculous. One normal mob can spawn multiple AoEs - now imagine if you got 8 of them coming out of a rift or something. They corrupt your boons with every. single. tick. of damage. They don't have internal cooldowns. Anet spent years teaching people about boons and now they do this.

Edited August 22 by ZenDrake.8316

[Pinkeh.4207]

1 hour ago, tyburok.3420 said:

I'm gonna play a ranged boon providing build to troll the "boonless" players.. 

As quick herald and healbrand, i too am doing my part to distribute the boon corruption pain. 🤣 If players want to stand in the bad, that's on them.

Edited August 23 by Pinkeh.4207

[ZenDrake.8316]

6 minutes ago, Pinkeh.4207 said:

If players want to stand in the bad, that's on them.

Gets difficult to avoid with multiple mobs around. The whole ground will be covered fast. No chance to do anything without ranged weapons.

[Pinkeh.4207]

5 minutes ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

Gets difficult to avoid with multiple mobs around. The whole ground will be covered fast. No chance to do anything without ranged weapons.

Yeah bad luck power melee mains.

[EzyQzy.8620]

First map should be called "Boon Corrupt Shore" and second map "Boon Corrupt Shore Two"

[Roda.7468]

They seem to have deleted the fart clouds

[Chyro.1462]

Think they should just change the way the aoes apply their effect. Pulsing boon corrupt constantly is bad and frustrating to play against. I'd rather they work more like hablion's teleport aoes from crown pavilion (just with better visibility). An aoe indicatior that spreads from center to its outer ring, and once it fills out it 'explodes' doing its boon corrupt once. Perhaps if they want a lingering effect the rot can then apply pulsing poison or torment if people still stay in it after that.

But the main point would be that the boon corrupt is a single one-hit thing with a clear indicator and reasonable time to avoid it from hitting you. And if its a single hit instead of pulsing, you can deal with the corrupted boons and move on with the fight instead of being corrupted over and over again. Make it a clear visual punishment for not getting out of it in time rather than a nearly unavoidable menace that is constantly punishing people for being in melee or  jumped by the enemy.

[Klinch.2964]

A single on-hit skill is too much of a nerf. I like the guaranteed punishment when we play our class exactly like all other PvE content. It's so refreshing to actually have to change our builds and playstyle to perform well with this new content. It isn't tough necessarily,  just different from most other encounters that let you just face tank the mobs and spam your rotations. 

Dodge roll spamming in Gw2 makes it so those slow single hit skills are never impactful enough for mobs. So many mobs already have slowly telegraphed "big hits" with different effects, but because they are easy to dodge, all fights feel very similar across content because you don't have to change up anything about your build or rotation to deal with those power hits.

These new mobs are such a nice variety.

[Uthrax.4975]

Yeah and last patch they nerfed Ele 'Diamond Skin', trying to remove condis is a fun meta game in itself for Ele.....ugh.

[SeTect.5918]

It isnt just that melee builds have it far worse with this boon corrupt spam because of slow and other stuff. Its not the only thing that bothers me.

What really bothers me is that while you are in melee, your damage gets an immense decrease, while reducing power damage even more because you are constantly spammed with weakness.

Power damage gets an additional decrease of damage because there is no weakness equivalent for condi. Cant we just get rid of weakness in PvE completely? 

Or split the effectiveness of weakness in PvE, PvP and WvW. So that in PvE, its not anymore that 50% are glancing Blows, but instead like 10% or even 0%? This condi is such a nonsense in PvE. 

You get all your boons ripped away, receive slow and receive weakness. Great, you need like half a Century to kill these enemies if they spam their boon corrupt.

Edited August 27 by SeTect.5918

[Razadune.9260]

9 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

Yes.

Who knew the "I'm a glass cannon - I'm pure damage if you guys don't stack I'll die in a second because I don't know how to dodge and beyond doing *cof*macro*cof* my DPS rotation I have nothing else, also JPs suck please delete solid ocean fractal!" Guys would make a come back in Janthir Wilds.

No more training wheels.

I wish the forum mods would just delete trolls like this, you're not even arguing in good faith here. You literally can't just play with no boons to avoid this when any person next to you can throw them onto you even if you somehow manage to play a class and spec that isn't generating any yourself. Your decision to have zero boons doesn't matter one single bit the second a Herald shows up to the fight, as just one example out of many.  You can't just not get hit by it, it's literally everywhere in some of these fights.    

Some specs become completely impossible, like Bladesworn auto-fearing every time they pop Dragon Trigger since their stability becomes fear. Tempests stack vulnerability on everyone around them the second they hit an overload, and the second option in their tree guarantees that they're adding either weakness to everyone if they use a shout, cripple and fear on top of vulnerability on themselves if they use their overload, or poison and bleed to everyone in range of their auras; they don't have a zero boon option at all, it's not even possible to make a Tempest who's not generating them. 

It's a stupid, unfun mechanic that doesn't belong in the game given the design of current classes, and all of this "git gud" style garbage here just helps to reinforce why.

[difens.1326]

Even if I wanted to play without boons, I'd have to avoid any other players. The more ppl around, the worse it gets (especially when others around you are melee).

[Dean Calaway.9718]

2 hours ago, Razadune.9260 said:

You literally can't just play with no boons to avoid this when any person next to you can throw them onto you even if you somehow manage to play a class and spec that isn't generating any yourself. Your decision to have zero boons doesn't matter one single bit the second a Herald shows up to the fight, as just one example out of many.  You can't just not get hit by it, it's literally everywhere in some of these fights. 

Then what have I been doing since the minute the expansion dropped... ?

Oh that's right, playing it and fighting in melee range, work it out, deal with the corruption, the realm of possibility isn't limited by your skill set, so speak for yourself, you can't do it, don't imprint your short comings on anyone else.

2 hours ago, Razadune.9260 said:

It's a stupid, unfun mechanic that doesn't belong in the game given the design of current classes, and all of this "git gud" style garbage here just helps to reinforce why.

 

12 hours ago, ZenDrake.8316 said:

You really don't understand the point, do you? If you have quickness, it gets instantly corrupted to slow. 

And the squeaky wheel gets the grease...

• Reduced blighted beast area-of-effect attacks to relieve pressure on melee players and work more seamlessly with Greer's mechanics.

We couldn't have anything nice for long around here, it was fun while it lasted.

[Voramoz.6790]

I am not here to thrash OP’s opinion. It is your opinion and that is valid. Janthir Rifts definitely represent a meta shift. The old way of boon facetank is not going to work against puddles of boon corruption. I am here to say I enjoy that meta shift. The instanced content community and its streamers have been advocating for ways to teach the open world community how to play the game for a very long time. So all of a sudden, ANET shifts the encounter meta. Personally, I enjoy the uptick in difficulty. I may respect the opinion of someone who does not, but I think we have to face some realities. It is absolutely ANET’s prerogative to shift the open world meta as the devs of the game. This is expansion 4 (5 if we consider IBS and I personally do). It’s not expansion 2 or even 3. The paradigm of difficulty has been changed before. There isn’t a good reason to argue that players should be able to show up and faceroll content. In fact, the opposite argument can and should be made. Rewards are rewarding because they are earned, not because they are collected. Again, I may respect that someone disagrees with the difficulty of new events, but I don’t think there is actually a sound argument that can be made against difficulty increases or shifting the meta.

[VoiceOfUnreason.5976]

7 hours ago, Dean Calaway.9718 said:

And the squeaky wheel gets the grease...

• Reduced blighted beast area-of-effect attacks to relieve pressure on melee players and work more seamlessly with Greer's mechanics.

We couldn't have anything nice for long around here, it was fun while it lasted.

Personally I don't think that's the end of the adjustments needed for these enemy types. I'd at least like them to tone down the visuals on their ground effects. Since these enemies don't exactly exist in a vacuum, and you're more often than not fighting 4-5 of them at once (possibly alongside a boss or champ version as well) that are all completely saturating the ground with purple/yellow fire. It'd be nicer too if the boon corruption was a gradual thing rather than (seemingly) all at once.

But I mean honestly, just from a technical standpoint Zendrake has a point. This is a game where you fight these enemies alongside 20-30 other players. All of which are playing classes that FAR MORE LIKELY than not are providing an aoe boon of some kind. It's not reasonable to suggest you can avoid having boons be applied to you in these larger fights. And the arguments against this are like... "Well *I* didn't have a problem with it". Okay... so you didn't have a problem (so you say). Enough people did to warrant a change. The devs themselves have admitted as such since they did make a change. And your response to that change is just as petty and snarky as your "suggestions" to the people complaining.

[VoiceOfUnreason.5976]

Actually though, while we're on the subject of these enemies (and this might need a separate thread cause it's more of a bug)... A lot of Titan enemies have a tendency to "reposition" by running to another location seemingly randomly in combat. I'm assuming that's an intentional thing, either to kite or disrupt the meta of "gathering enemies together and aoeing them". However I've seen on many occasions now them running in a direction and hitting what seems to be their leash range, which causes them to slow walk back closer in towards the player while invulnerable. It's happened pretty frequently for me.

[SeTect.5918]

1 hour ago, Voramoz.6790 said:

I am not here to thrash OP’s opinion. It is your opinion and that is valid. Janthir Rifts definitely represent a meta shift. The old way of boon facetank is not going to work against puddles of boon corruption. I am here to say I enjoy that meta shift. The instanced content community and its streamers have been advocating for ways to teach the open world community how to play the game for a very long time. So all of a sudden, ANET shifts the encounter meta. Personally, I enjoy the uptick in difficulty. I may respect the opinion of someone who does not, but I think we have to face some realities. It is absolutely ANET’s prerogative to shift the open world meta as the devs of the game. This is expansion 4 (5 if we consider IBS and I personally do). It’s not expansion 2 or even 3. The paradigm of difficulty has been changed before. There isn’t a good reason to argue that players should be able to show up and faceroll content. In fact, the opposite argument can and should be made. Rewards are rewarding because they are earned, not because they are collected. Again, I may respect that someone disagrees with the difficulty of new events, but I don’t think there is actually a sound argument that can be made against difficulty increases or shifting the meta.

I think the problem is not that boons are corrupted, but more that just melee builds get the punch in the face with that mechanic. 

It would make more sense that the enemies summon the area effect directly on the player and not everywhere in melee range in that case. 

Some builds are baseline melee and some builds are baseline ranged. 

I agree that rewards should be earned, but it shouldnt be punishing based on the weapon you are using, especially since something like engi basically has almost no ranged options. Except if you want to spam grenades of course. 

Builds that were ranged before already can just continue what they are doing but melee builds have to switch their builds up which also actually costs gold switching up weapons.