Lighter.5631 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Like really? Kill it with fire 4 2 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) Defiant stance has never been the issue, it has existed for ages and similar skills exist with Revenant too. Its, shockingly, again SPB with its disgusting Full Counter cooldown stacking on top of that turns fights into stat checks. Full counter for its cooldown of 8,5 seconds does the following on taking any kind of attack while active: 100% damage reduction. Gives stability Boon rips Dazes Is unblockable Gives Adrenal Health Cleanses with Cleansing Ire. Gives Attackers insight stacks. Triggers Magebane tether, which gives might, reveals targets for 9 seconds, gives you 10% extra damage against that target and is unblockable. Does damage back to 5 targets in 300 range. Resets your other burst. Other warrior defensive skills would warrant this being on a 20 second cooldown without the bugged versatile power bug. Edited August 22 by WingSwipe.3084 Added "Resets your other burst." 6 5 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Azure The Heartless.3261 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 They could just fix the bug that makes full counter 8 seconds instead of 10, then adjust from there (discipline reduces the full counter cd too much devs) but I bet they'll wait until there's a sea of forum posts pointing at things that aren't issues and butcher specs that can't even play in the meta because it'll be funnier. I have a glimmer of optimism, perfect time to crush it, would be sick if y'all didn't though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hotride.2187 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 5 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Defiant stance has never been the issue, it has existed for ages and similar skills exist with Revenant too. Its, shockingly, again SPB with its disgusting Full Counter cooldown stacking on top of that turns fights into stat checks. Full counter for its cooldown of 8,5 seconds does the following on taking any kind of attack while active: 100% damage reduction. Gives stability Boon rips Dazes Is unblockable Gives Adrenal Health Cleanses with Cleansing Ire. Gives Attackers insight stacks. Triggers Magebane tether, which gives might, reveals targets for 9 seconds, gives you 10% extra damage against that target and is unblockable. Does damage back to 5 targets in 300 range. Resets your other burst. Other warrior defensive skills would warrant this being on a 20 second cooldown without the bugged versatile power bug. Most of that comes with traits tbh. FC is overloaded, sure, but half the list is any burst skill when traited as you list. Defense spellbreaker feels bad to fight due to the combination of defiant stance, endure pain, FC, staff heal and adrenal health. And you know what else feels bad to fight? Yeah, every warrior that runs all of these, even minus FC. Maybe if you play some broken build where only the SPBs cause an issue. I play str spb and honestly condi zerks, staff wars, if they run all of this list, take forever to kill. Condizerk can even be dangerous if the player piloting it is any good. Though yeah I agree SPB is an outlier here. The non-SPB builds can get obnoxious but not that obnoxious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 37 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said: Most of that comes with traits tbh. FC is overloaded, sure, but half the list is any burst skill when traited as you list. Defense spellbreaker feels bad to fight due to the combination of defiant stance, endure pain, FC, staff heal and adrenal health. And you know what else feels bad to fight? Yeah, every warrior that runs all of these, even minus FC. Maybe if you play some broken build where only the SPBs cause an issue. I play str spb and honestly condi zerks, staff wars, if they run all of this list, take forever to kill. Condizerk can even be dangerous if the player piloting it is any good. Though yeah I agree SPB is an outlier here. The non-SPB builds can get obnoxious but not that obnoxious. Im mentioning all the things that comes from traits because its the meta traitlines. Defence/Disipline are the absolute meta choices for builds that dont dont involve greifing yourself and you are almost always going to see people using it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said: They could just fix the bug that makes full counter 8 seconds instead of 10, then adjust from there (discipline reduces the full counter cd too much devs) but I bet they'll wait until there's a sea of forum posts pointing at things that aren't issues and butcher specs that can't even play in the meta because it'll be funnier. I have a glimmer of optimism, perfect time to crush it, would be sick if y'all didn't though. THIS^^^^ There is a bug. The bug has been reported. We openly discuss the bug. The bug is still there. Fix the bug first, then see how it plays with its actual CD before doing anything else. And if anything else is done, do so by shifting functionality from FC onto Meditations or other parts of warrior rather than just removing things wholesale. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Myror.7521 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 @WingSwipe.3084 you might have noticed that defiant stance is only broken in comb with endurepain, staff Block, full counter, Sword Block, staff Aegis. Its a straight up Chain of multiple "you can not dmg me now" skills and defiant stance is monsterious cause it holds for 4 Seconds straight ^^ . Maybe If they reduce it to 2 Seconds it would allready be fine enough 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 14 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said: @WingSwipe.3084 you might have noticed that defiant stance is only broken in comb with endurepain, staff Block, full counter, Sword Block, staff Aegis. Its a straight up Chain of multiple "you can not dmg me now" skills and defiant stance is monsterious cause it holds for 4 Seconds straight ^^ . Maybe If they reduce it to 2 Seconds it would allready be fine enough How long is the Revenant one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trevor Boyer.6524 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 6 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Defiant stance has never been the issue, it has existed for ages and similar skills exist with Revenant too. Yes, but these skills like this have become seriously bloated in their usage due to power creep over the years. Back in 2014, Defiant Stance might heal you 25% of your health bar. But in 2024 the DPS is so high that Defiant Stance is an automatic full health reset and functionally a 4s invuln to boot. Players need to identify that the higher DPS becomes, the more valuable effects like invuln become. In a meta where it's burst kill or get burst killed, a skill that grants a 4s invuln while full health resetting the player is very very powerful. Something like a Holosmith let's say, all he has to do is accidentally land a couple strikes before seeing the green numbers from Defiant, and even if he's reactive enough to stop hitting, it'll still land like a 16k+ heal on the Warrior real fast. Back in 2014 again as example, DPS was so much lower, if you accidentally hit the Defiant Warrior a couple times before stopping, it may toss a 2k-4k heal his way. I've said this in several threads now. This Defiant Stance stuff, along with all other heals like it, need to be appropriately scaled for today's 2024 high DPS metas. 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 16 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: How long is the Revenant one? 2s, but it's a two part. You can start "absorbing damage" even while stunned, so it doesn't exactly translate to defiant stance 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lighter.5631 Posted August 22 Author Share Posted August 22 (edited) 7 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Defiant stance has never been the issue, it has existed for ages and similar skills exist with Revenant too. Its, shockingly, again SPB with its disgusting Full Counter cooldown stacking on top of that turns fights into stat checks. Full counter for its cooldown of 8,5 seconds does the following on taking any kind of attack while active: 100% damage reduction. Gives stability Boon rips Dazes Is unblockable Gives Adrenal Health Cleanses with Cleansing Ire. Gives Attackers insight stacks. Triggers Magebane tether, which gives might, reveals targets for 9 seconds, gives you 10% extra damage against that target and is unblockable. Does damage back to 5 targets in 300 range. Resets your other burst. Other warrior defensive skills would warrant this being on a 20 second cooldown without the bugged versatile power bug. Doesn't matter, defiant stance is a garbage toxic mechanic to be made viable anyway. And it really doesn't matter what gets nerfed because any nerf( full counter or shield master or block)will make defiant stance go back to its kitten hole again. Because defiant stance just capitalizing on these skills anyway, without the foundation it will crumble without being touched. Now problem is just that they buffer warrior defensive up time so much to not get wrecked by all the power creep. now it's able to chain defiant stance and have nearly no window for damage. I'd even argue all the defensive with a normal heal like mending would be completely fine. If you nerf the defensive, not only you kill off defiant stance you also kill off all the other builds that used to be decent. Edited August 22 by Lighter.5631 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 5 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: 2s, but it's a two part. You can start "absorbing damage" even while stunned, so it doesn't exactly translate to defiant stance Yeah, once they activate facet, the flip over has 0 cast time and is really great for absorbing a burst. Really powerful. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 9 minutes ago, Terrorhuz.4695 said: 2s, but it's a two part. You can start "absorbing damage" even while stunned, so it doesn't exactly translate to defiant stance Im down to reduce the duration of defiant stance to match that of Infuse Light, but what does the skill get in return? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terrorhuz.4695 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 2 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Im down to reduce the duration of defiant stance to match that of Infuse Light, but what does the skill get in return? Don't ask me, I don't have an opinion on this thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilesoldier.9826 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 34 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Yeah, once they activate facet, the flip over has 0 cast time and is really great for absorbing a burst. Really powerful. Yeah whenever herald gets value from glint heal it feels earned with the timing. Not to mention 2s of damage negation can easily be overturned. Mending is still better for non-SpB, but I groan at how lax SpB has become (with staff, dmg mods, and FC) that defiant stance sees play outside of silver rank Edited August 22 by vilesoldier.9826 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 29 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Im down to reduce the duration of defiant stance to match that of Infuse Light, but what does the skill get in return? Instant cast if you want to mirror Infuse Light, strictly speaking. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 19 minutes ago, vilesoldier.9826 said: Yeah whenever herald gets value from glint heal it feels earned with the timing. Not to mention 2s of damage negation can easily be overturned. Mending is still better for non-SpB, but I groan at how lax SpB has become (with staff, dmg mods, and FC) that defiant stance sees play outside of silver rank Defiance Stance can be used on non-spell for the immunity/block/evade chaining. Spell just adds an evade with FC. Berserker gets to add in Savage Instinct and Lesser BR procs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingSwipe.3084 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 3 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Berserker gets to add in Savage Instinct and Lesser BR procs. Whats left of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vilesoldier.9826 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Lan Deathrider.5910 said: Defiance Stance can be used on non-spell for the immunity/block/evade chaining. Spell just adds an evade with FC. Berserker gets to add in Savage Instinct and Lesser BR procs. SpB does it best, unfortunately. FC as it is now does a lot of heavy carrying lifting… Edited August 22 by vilesoldier.9826 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 15 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Whats left of them. You're not wrong. Honestly, it's pretty grating that the FC CD reduction bug goes unfixed for so long, but Berserker gets it's sustain nerfed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cOf.7940 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Since EoD Launch pvp suffers cuz of warrior specs. Bladesworn, bunker condi zerker, spellbreaker.... And it seems it doesn't bother anyone who is on charge. Soon i expect they will make warrior class an elder dragon and let them fly on the maps and one shot other specs 😄 They need to remove full counter for good and add another healthy spec into the class, 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flowki.7194 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 (edited) So what is sPVP looking like now? SPB-Virt-reaper-condi thief, AKA: Woke wars 2... specs that exempt you from accountability for your mistakes. I dueled enough SPB with the spear, and seen it dueling other specs across the last year or so. It has went from a low effort, low mobility FC carried brick wall duelist, to a low effort, FC carried spec that now looks able to effectively group fight, roam, and remain as a top 3 duelist, in 1 spec. Wtf happened? In-fact I alter that, even if you fix the FC bug, and increase its Cd... this current monstrosity is till going to dominate. "but warrior sucks otherwise". Not my problem, tired of low effort builds being coped and defended on.. it doesn't justify this shitfest, same with virt, another monstrisity brick wall spec spewing out roam dps. Edited August 22 by Flowki.7194 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vancho.8750 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 1 hour ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Im down to reduce the duration of defiant stance to match that of Infuse Light, but what does the skill get in return? Well reduced cooldown and no cast time. I kinda think Anet kittened up when they increased the cooldown of Mending to 20 when it was like 12 with the trait and 16 without and then remove the trait. They also kittened up when they nerfed Heal Signet and kittened up second time with it when they changed Resistance and never did a balance pass on the nerfed skills. I actually think they should buff Natural Healing by giving it AoE boon removal instead of removing your own boons, stabbing yourself is the Necro thing. Quite frankly if Anet doesn't like something they should overnerf it for a month or something and buff something else, but they always overnerf everything and then forget about it with no backtracking or fixing and you are stuck with garbage till new content is dropped with hopes you can get a month of fun out of it before it gets deleted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneppy.7208 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 10 hours ago, WingSwipe.3084 said: Defiant stance has never been the issue, it has existed for ages and similar skills exist with Revenant too. Its, shockingly, again SPB with its disgusting Full Counter cooldown stacking on top of that turns fights into stat checks. Full counter for its cooldown of 8,5 seconds does the following on taking any kind of attack while active: 100% damage reduction. Gives stability Boon rips Dazes Is unblockable Gives Adrenal Health Cleanses with Cleansing Ire. Gives Attackers insight stacks. Triggers Magebane tether, which gives might, reveals targets for 9 seconds, gives you 10% extra damage against that target and is unblockable. Does damage back to 5 targets in 300 range. Resets your other burst. Other warrior defensive skills would warrant this being on a 20 second cooldown without the bugged versatile power bug. Yes lets gut the only good mechanic Warrior has left. Good idea. Also, FC does nothing if you dont hit it, as you should. Bind stow weapon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lan Deathrider.5910 Posted August 22 Share Posted August 22 Buff these: Might Makes Right: more healing, or more endurance gain Adrenal Health: more healing Healing Signet: more passive healing, and double the on use heal Savage Instinct: 2s duration on entering or exiting Natural Healing: removes boons in an AoE, heals per boon removed on top of base healing Nerf these: Defiant Stance down to 2s, but instant cast Full Counter's CD reduction bug fixed Blood Reckoning and Lesser Blood Reckoning heal for 17% of condition damage and 33% of strike damage Certain ground targeted Burst skills no longer trigger AH 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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