So are pre-order players going to get three more glyph boxes?

[Whirlygig.9685]

On 8/27/2024 at 6:06 AM, Skub.8240 said:

giving pre-order folks 3 bonus glyphs

I pre bought the Ultimate edition and it stretched me financially, it's alot of money.  I pre bought despite the fact that I am working away for the first  6 weeks of the DLC release because I know pre purchasing helps Anet. To find out that those who bought after release get three free glyphs and so far nothing has been done for those in my situation has made me pretty pissed off,  enough in fact seeing as  I have not set foot in the game yet to just get a full refund of the Ultimate and spend it on another game.

It's not reasonable to treat people who paid exactly the same amount of money before release as after to have less, it does NOT matter if 'blah blah you got what you were expecting' so don't bother replying with that sort of provocative comment, it's about equity of service.

@Rubi Bayer.8493  surely this can be dealt with fairly?

Edited August 28 by Whirlygig.9685

[Aox.1920]

4 minutes ago, Whirlygig.9685 said:

@Rubi Bayer.8493 surely this can be dealt with fairly?

.

[Vortelf.4297]

12 hours ago, Whirlygig.9685 said:

It's not reasonable to treat people who paid exactly the same amount of money before release as after to have less

Not only it's not reasonable, but it's illegal in EU.

[Ferus.3165]

it was obv a bug so the only choice now is to remove the extra glyphs from anyone who got six glyphs or give three more glyphs to everyone who bought the deluxe edition and only got three glyphs in total. Sure i'd like to get three more glyphs too but i think giving those extra glyphs to every deluxe edition owner would be a deal that's too good.

Edited August 28 by Ferus.3165

[Cameirus.8407]

4 hours ago, Vortelf.4297 said:

Not only it's not reasonable, but it's illegal in EU.

lol no its not. what utter tripe.

if they had taken away 3 glyphs, then you'd have a case, but someone getting a bonus in no way invalidates a sale of a product or service that provides exactly what you were told you were getting when you paid for it.

Which this does.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

On 8/28/2024 at 2:01 AM, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

This is not the case. It isn't people complaining about others getting something, it's people complaining about themselves getting less after doing more. Not everyone is getting the same.

But people did NOT get less than what they expected (in fact many got more because many purchased before the glyphs were added). No one got less than what they expected.

People did get less than a few people who got bonus rewards due to a bug. That's not the same thing. That's complaining about others getting more, not about you getting less. To repeat, no one got less than what they expected when they purchased the deluxe upgrade *.

(* I guess you could make a case that a very small number of people who bought the deluxe upgrade just as Anet fixed the bug might have been expecting to get 6 glyphs and hence got less than they expected, but deliberately exploiting a bug is strictly against ToS so they don't have a leg to stand on if they wanted to complain).

[MithranArkanere.8957]

Just now, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

But people did NOT get less than what they expected (in fact many got more because many purchased before the glyphs were added). No one got less than what they expected.

People did get less than a few people who got bonus rewards due to a bug. That's not the same thing. That's complaining about others getting more, not about you getting less. To repeat, no one got less than what they expected when they purchased the deluxe upgrade *.

(* I guess you could make a case that a very small number of people who bought the deluxe upgrade just as Anet fixed the bug might have been expecting to get 6 glyphs and hence got less than they expected, but deliberately exploiting a bug is strictly against ToS so they don't have a leg to stand on if they wanted to complain).

The comparison isn't with what was announced, it is with what happened in practice.

There are only two fair outcomes for this issue: either the people who got extras because of exploiting a bug (knowingly or not) lose them, or the people who preorder get the extras too. 
The first solution is arguably fairer since it prevents someone who may have knowingly exploited a bug from getting anything out of that. The second solution will make everyone involved happier but may set a bad precedent.

Just leaving things be won't do, and I  can't imagine any other solution that would be fair.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

42 minutes ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

The comparison isn't with what was announced, it is with what happened in practice.

There are only two fair outcomes for this issue: either the people who got extras because of exploiting a bug (knowingly or not) lose them, or the people who preorder get the extras too. 
The first solution is arguably fairer since it prevents someone who may have knowingly exploited a bug from getting anything out of that. The second solution will make everyone involved happier but may set a bad precedent.

Just leaving things be won't do, and I  can't imagine any other solution that would be fair.

OK, so we are talking fairness.

I disagree with giving everyone who buys the deluxe version 6 glyphs because it doesn't seem fair that Anet decided to be kind and give everyone 3 glyphs instead of 0 and are now facing complaints and demands for everyone to get 6 glyphs because a small number of  players got 6 glyphs. Having started at everyone getting 0 and only going to 3 because Anet decided to be nice to us this seems like a pretty rude endpoint to be demanding.

It's like I give a friend an unexpected present, then I give another friend the same unexpected present but it happens to be worth more than the first for some reason I didn't expect. Is it reasonable for my first friend to demand I compensate them because the second friend got more value from this unexpected gift? That just seems outright rude as a response to being given a gift!

[Skub.8240]

9 minutes ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

OK, so we are talking fairness.

I disagree with giving everyone who buys the deluxe version 6 glyphs because it doesn't seem fair that Anet decided to be kind and give everyone 3 glyphs instead of 0 and are now facing complaints and demands for everyone to get 6 glyphs because a small number of  players got 6 glyphs. Having started at everyone getting 0 and only going to 3 because Anet decided to be nice to us this seems like a pretty rude endpoint to be demanding.

It's like I give a friend an unexpected present, then I give another friend the same unexpected present but it happens to be worth more than the first for some reason I didn't expect. Is it reasonable for my first friend to demand I compensate them because the second friend got more value from this unexpected gift? That just seems outright rude as a response to being given a gift!

The corporation is not your friend

[Cameirus.8407]

1 hour ago, MithranArkanere.8957 said:

The comparison isn't with what was announced, it is with what happened in practice.

There are only two fair outcomes for this issue: either the people who got extras because of exploiting a bug (knowingly or not) lose them, or the people who preorder get the extras too. 
The first solution is arguably fairer since it prevents someone who may have knowingly exploited a bug from getting anything out of that. The second solution will make everyone involved happier but may set a bad precedent.

Just leaving things be won't do, and I  can't imagine any other solution that would be fair.

What happened in practice was exactly what was announced, whether they intended it or not. Go back and read the announcement. Which puts them in a difficult situation.

I doubt the game tracked the item from pre-order or not. Which is what created this situation. so sorting out who did or did not take advantage of this is probably impossible.

Now anet could hand out 3 more to every pr-order, but I doubt they will as that woudl be adding extra you were never promised when you ordered. Maybe they should. but then you get into "but if I knew I could get that value of glyphs, I'd have pre-ordered"...

Also, there is no exploit or bug. it functioned exactly as anet said it would (if there was a discrepency with what they intended, then thats their mistake, as its exactly what they announced would happen). if they do take action against anyone, they can just show the written terms anet posted.

There is no clean solution here. I suspect anet will consider this matter closed and sit it out.

[Nimafor.1756]

5 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

OK, so we are talking fairness.

I disagree with giving everyone who buys the deluxe version 6 glyphs because it doesn't seem fair that Anet decided to be kind and give everyone 3 glyphs instead of 0 and are now facing complaints and demands for everyone to get 6 glyphs because a small number of  players got 6 glyphs. Having started at everyone getting 0 and only going to 3 because Anet decided to be nice to us this seems like a pretty rude endpoint to be demanding.

It's like I give a friend an unexpected present, then I give another friend the same unexpected present but it happens to be worth more than the first for some reason I didn't expect. Is it reasonable for my first friend to demand I compensate them because the second friend got more value from this unexpected gift? That just seems outright rude as a response to being given a gift!

That is not a good comparison, your example should be more like

 

Friend 1 gives you 25$ and you give the person one present.

Friend 2 comes to you a bit later and also gives you 25$ but this time you give the person two presents.

Friend 1 hears about this unfair deal and also wants another present so the deal is the same for both people.

Edited August 29 by Nimafor.1756

[Eekasqueak.7850]

5 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

OK, so we are talking fairness.

I disagree with giving everyone who buys the deluxe version 6 glyphs because it doesn't seem fair that Anet decided to be kind and give everyone 3 glyphs instead of 0 and are now facing complaints and demands for everyone to get 6 glyphs because a small number of  players got 6 glyphs. Having started at everyone getting 0 and only going to 3 because Anet decided to be nice to us this seems like a pretty rude endpoint to be demanding.

It's like I give a friend an unexpected present, then I give another friend the same unexpected present but it happens to be worth more than the first for some reason I didn't expect. Is it reasonable for my first friend to demand I compensate them because the second friend got more value from this unexpected gift? That just seems outright rude as a response to being given a gift!

I think the issue with this analogy is it isn't a gift, it's a purchase which is going to be treated a lot differently. 

[greenit.7962]

It's not the first time something goes wrong with orders / pre-orders in the last 12 years I'm playing this game, but tbh I'm fed up with this and it's definitely the last time that I've pre-ordered anything since Anet's position to mistakes like this is basically "whoops... welp, can't change that now and screw you pre-orderers, we already have your money".

edit: maybe I'm a bit too annoyed to always miss out on stuff when I pay too soon for it and therefore the last part of the sentence is a bit too harsh... still annoyed tho.

Edited August 29 by greenit.7962

[MithranArkanere.8957]

10 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

OK, so we are talking fairness.

I disagree with giving everyone who buys the deluxe version 6 glyphs because it doesn't seem fair that Anet decided to be kind and give everyone 3 glyphs instead of 0 and are now facing complaints and demands for everyone to get 6 glyphs because a small number of  players got 6 glyphs. Having started at everyone getting 0 and only going to 3 because Anet decided to be nice to us this seems like a pretty rude endpoint to be demanding.

It's like I give a friend an unexpected present, then I give another friend the same unexpected present but it happens to be worth more than the first for some reason I didn't expect. Is it reasonable for my first friend to demand I compensate them because the second friend got more value from this unexpected gift? That just seems outright rude as a response to being given a gift!

Nope. It's not friends and presents. People who preordered had to pay.  People who didn't preorder may or may not have paid.

I do not charge my friends for presents. It's kind of what makes giving stuff to friends a present.

As I said before, there wouldn't be as much of a problem if it was something like an in-game reward or a Twitch drop. This is an issue because people who paid for stuff are perceiving this as being punished for preordering. It doesn't matter what's technically true. What matters here is the perception that may potentially compromise future pre-orders and prospective economic predictions derived from those preorders.

The right ways to address the issue will make sure that the next preorder people won't have any reason to think twice or wait for later, at least no reason derived from this.

[Marshall Sed.8643]

14 hours ago, Mistwraithe.3106 said:

I disagree with giving everyone who buys the deluxe version 6 glyphs because it doesn't seem fair that Anet decided to be kind and give everyone 3 glyphs instead of 0 and are now facing complaints and demands for everyone to get 6 glyphs because a small number of  players got 6 glyphs. Having started at everyone getting 0 and only going to 3 because Anet decided to be nice to us this seems like a pretty rude endpoint to be demanding.

Actually, Anet should have give ZERO glyph boxes with the deluxe/ultimate edition and then you go swap them for the upgrade.

 

Can you define "small"?

 

Anet are going to let this post die a death and people will still be upset. I, personally, am a bit miffed at the situation but there's nothing I can do about it so *shrugs*. 

I do know that, when the next xpac drops, I'll be returning to only pre-ordering the standard edition again.

[Skub.8240]

8 hours ago, Marshall Sed.8643 said:

Actually, Anet should have give ZERO glyph boxes with the deluxe/ultimate edition and then you go swap them for the upgrade.

 

Can you define "small"?

 

Anet are going to let this post die a death and people will still be upset. I, personally, am a bit miffed at the situation but there's nothing I can do about it so *shrugs*. 

I do know that, when the next xpac drops, I'll be returning to only pre-ordering the standard edition again.

Yeah I'm definitely not pre-ordering the next expansion, whatever it is. The fact that no staff have even responded to questions about this and, instead, simply tried to stealth fix this is even more annoying than the initial issue imo.

Edited August 30 by Skub.8240

[Whirlygig.9685]

8 hours ago, Skub.8240 said:

Yeah I'm definitely not pre-ordering the next expansion

A friend of mine is contacting Anet later today for a full refund and I am considering it; £65 is far to much money to think it acceptable for not one person from Anet to come on the forums to talk about it, I feel resentful and increasingly adamant that customer service here is dropping way below what it should be. I do not know if giving customers after the expansion went live more is illegal as someone upthread suggested, but I feel confident that refusing to give a full refund in these circumstances would be.

Ruby come on, don't just ignore this thread, it's something that needs looking into.

Edited August 30 by Whirlygig.9685

[genjonah.1253]

lol fairness. The only fairness is getting that which you paid for, which EVERYBODY DID GET. You’re not entitled to an exploited bug. Would I take an extra three glyphs if ANet decides to go that route? Sure. But everyone so fair who did NOT get the bonus HAS been treated fairly

[conifur.2896]

Seems they removed them. They are not offered by the Specialist.

[rune.9572]

so given that this is $112 worth of items, I've opened a ticket.

Let's see how this goes but if I don't get my extra $112 in items I don't see myself giving arenanet money ever again.

[Triptaminas.4789]

On 8/29/2024 at 1:34 AM, Cameirus.8407 said:

lol no its not. what utter tripe.

if they had taken away 3 glyphs, then you'd have a case, but someone getting a bonus in no way invalidates a sale of a product or service that provides exactly what you were told you were getting when you paid for it.

Which this does.

U are wrong.

One could easily build a case here in EU because of presale, this is some third world sheananigans that would pass only in NA. 

 

Edited August 30 by Triptaminas.4789

[Triptaminas.4789]

5 hours ago, Whirlygig.9685 said:

A friend of mine is contacting Anet later today for a full refund and I am considering it; £65 is far to much money to think it acceptable for not one person from Anet to come on the forums to talk about it, I feel resentful and increasingly adamant that customer service here is dropping way below what it should be. I do not know if giving customers after the expansion went live more is illegal as someone upthread suggested, but I feel confident that refusing to give a full refund in these circumstances would be.

Ruby come on, don't just ignore this thread, it's something that needs looking into.

They do not give a kitten about anything, they just collect money. U could sue them for myriad of things, feom false advertising, bait and switch or whatever. The pressale one is juicy too, defo real for EU at least. There precedents with other mmos already.

But u gonna end up in court for 5 years for irrelevant sum of money.

Just accept anet for what it is and call it a day, u simply does not matter, early supporters does not matter, nothing matters but collecting money with minimal efforts. This extra glyph bait now led to more sales, it's all they care 

 

Edited August 30 by Triptaminas.4789

[Triptaminas.4789]

Yeah yeah spam your confused emojis. 

Idgf. 

Presale people getting rekt here, anet baiting more profits with additional glyphs as pressle ended for same package. It's not complicated thing. 

This dev simping on cases like this makes me gag, have some self respect people. 

Anyways idc about glyphs, leaving thread, continue to place confused emojis.

[Gop.8713]

Let's take a moment to remember that this all started bc ppls got exactly what they paid for and then complained that they wanted more . . .

[Skub.8240]

7 hours ago, Gop.8713 said:

Let's take a moment to remember that this all started bc ppls got exactly what they paid for and then complained that they wanted more . . .

Yeah, maybe anet should just do it right the first time instead of trying to think of ways to cheap out on their players.