Engi has been in a sorry state for too long in PvP

[shion.2084]

51 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Which other professions do not invest traits/utilities to do dmg? Elixir S is an invulnerability...

I said if investing in the traits got you the same kind of damage, with the same amount of health and defenses you are left with.   Elixir S is an invulnerability, but it is not meta scrapper.  You could not take it and do sufficient damage because you'd give up blast or shredder in the meta build.  Also you'll note that while you are invuln you cannot do any significant damage.  Are all invulns / evade chains like that?  You also get locked out of all your skills.  You get it every 60 seconds for 3 seconds... and its also your only stun break if you take it for the meta build and replace blast.

Note that when mobility creep hadn't gone through the roof, the super speed you get for the 3 seconds might have been useful to escape.  As it is now you count the 3 seconds down and port on the poor scrapper (who just used his only stun break having shaped blast for elixir s possibly?). 

And yes if an engi uses Elix S to go invuln, and damage they do should be debufed while in it and for a short period after.  I have absolutely no problem with that.

Edited August 26 by shion.2084

[calva.2914]

I wish for mech PvP you could choose to “sacrifice” your mech. Maybe have the mech traits do a different effect if your mech is sacrificed?  Cause in reality the mech ai is garbage for PvP.

[shion.2084]

1 minute ago, calva.2914 said:

I wish for mech PvP you could choose to “sacrifice” your mech. Maybe have the mech traits do a different effect if your mech is sacrificed?  Cause in reality the mech ai is garbage for PvP.

I had hoped it was like a power suit and you'd get to go all Gundam on your opponents.... I was very wrong.

[calva.2914]

2 minutes ago, shion.2084 said:

I had hoped it was like a power suit and you'd get to go all Gundam on your opponents.... I was very wrong.

That actually would have been kitten(awesome)  

edit:  ahhhhh. I see where the word kitten comes from on these forums now. 

Edited August 26 by calva.2914

[Arheundel.6451]

4 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Id imagine its because engie has less active mitigation and fewer buttons for dealing with incoming damage on its melee options than ranger does. 

Greatsword on ranger was pretty heavy kitwise, but most of engies weapons either suck at providing mitigation or don't do it at all. If you want a close range engie as anet seems to want, I'd imagine it needs something. 

Opinion subject to change if its abusable ofc

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shock_Shield

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bulwark_Gyro

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tool_Kit

The list is not complete as engineer got access to more defenses on holo while still having access to stealth, superseded and more, whereas the Ranger has got a single block on greatsword and the rest is evasion and some barrier, the rest is actively negating dmg through stealth and dodges, you can add Stone signet with some toughness pet for soulbeast. Stop the gaslighting...did you see the power soulbeast almost instadieing to willbender during MAT finals recently? All it took was 3 hits for the willbender to down the ranger, using a build with no GS and just access to 2-3 sources of stealth to run away. Let me remind you that since launch, not once has a team ever won a major tournament with more than a ranger in it, but we did have double engi teams winning tournaments....that's the difference

Engi may not be part of the meta of whatever but it's far far far from being as weak as people here want us to believe. Engineer class has problems like every other profession but there are benefits, strong points to it...including CC lock burst rotations, grenades spam, meta builds in wvw etc etc....just stop the gaslightning 

[Arheundel.6451]

2 hours ago, shion.2084 said:

I said if investing in the traits got you the same kind of damage, with the same amount of health and defenses you are left with.   Elixir S is an invulnerability, but it is not meta scrapper.  You could not take it and do sufficient damage because you'd give up blast or shredder in the meta build.  Also you'll note that while you are invuln you cannot do any significant damage.  Are all invulns / evade chains like that?  You also get locked out of all your skills.  You get it every 60 seconds for 3 seconds... and its also your only stun break if you take it for the meta build and replace blast.

Note that when mobility creep hadn't gone through the roof, the super speed you get for the 3 seconds might have been useful to escape.  As it is now you count the 3 seconds down and port on the poor scrapper (who just used his only stun break having shaped blast for elixir s possibly?). 

And yes if an engi uses Elix S to go invuln, and damage they do should be debufed while in it and for a short period after.  I have absolutely no problem with that.

You did not answer the question. I can do more damage on an ele if I take arcane blast over a cantrip...but I will be easier to kill, I can take dagger offhand over focus for more mobily..but again I will be easier to kill. I don't see where engi is exactly weak, from wvw to pvp I still see good Engis holding the ground against anything but still struggling when caught off guard. those are the signs of a balanced class considering the whole game. From what I can see, an average engi does well against an average of anything else..and that's how it should be.

[jdawgie.1835]

On 8/23/2024 at 8:21 AM, Melumi.6432 said:

Supply crate... pretty sure it's still on CD from the match before last.

This made me laugh out loud - God dang that CD is crazy af.

I dont play engi but watching it systematically get destroyed by this community during 2023 was terrible. This forum is responsible for what happened to engi. The constant complaints around a few strong versions of engi that had PLENTY and I mean PLENTY of counterplay was so awful. Engi every patch slowly gutted into obscurity. Now here we are - down a profession all together where there was a time we had at least something to represent every profession for a little while. I support giving engi some buffs to allow it to have a place in the game mode. Its terrible right now. 

Edited August 26 by jdawgie.1835

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

41 minutes ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Shock_Shield

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Bulwark_Gyro

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Tool_Kit

The list is not complete as engineer got access to more defenses on holo while still having access to stealth, superseded and more, whereas the Ranger has got a single block on greatsword and the rest is evasion and some barrier, the rest is actively negating dmg through stealth and dodges, you can add Stone signet with some toughness pet for soulbeast. Stop the gaslighting...did you see the power soulbeast almost instadieing to willbender during MAT finals recently? All it took was 3 hits for the willbender to down the ranger, using a build with no GS and just access to 2-3 sources of stealth to run away. Let me remind you that since launch, not once has a team ever won a major tournament with more than a ranger in it, but we did have double engi teams winning tournaments....that's the difference

Engi may not be part of the meta of whatever but it's far far far from being as weak as people here want us to believe. Engineer class has problems like every other profession but there are benefits, strong points to it...including CC lock burst rotations, grenades spam, meta builds in wvw etc etc....just stop the gaslightning 

Why would you write this post in response to "spear evade on engie is prob okay, it doesn't have as much mitigation as ranger?" They can't take shock shield with spear.

A quick glance at the meta would tell you that of those two classes, one is significantly more flexible. I don't need to list out the cds of lightning reflexes and such and such, you know what they are oriented like and so do most people that will read this. 

Just let them have the spear evade for now. Nobody is dragging ranger to the stake.

Edited August 26 by Azure The Heartless.3261

[Shagie.7612]

7 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

Id imagine its because engie has less active mitigation and fewer buttons for dealing with incoming damage on its melee options than ranger does. 

It's not the having evasion, it's the stowing the last attack of the chain every time you can that's the silly part. Which is why they took it away from Ranger.

Put some defensive capabilities on the other skills or something instead.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

2 minutes ago, Shagie.7612 said:

It's not the having evasion, it's the stowing the last attack of the chain every time you can that's the silly part. Which is why they took it away from Ranger.

Put some defensive capabilities on the other skills or something instead.

If it's abusable I rescind my statement ofc. They can put it on something else accessible if they want, as long as  its not forgotten that spear engie can't take shield. 

[Kuma.1503]

10 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

Which other professions do not invest traits/utilities to do dmg? Elixir S is an invulnerability...

I'll never forget the day I randomly decided to play Harbinger with Death magic and blood magic. Proceeded to vomit's condis onto anything that came near me with perma barrier and perma quickness. . It was power the likes of which I had never experienced before. 

I remember it as if it were only a month ago... 

[Flashback noise. mp3]

Kuma from 1 month ago: "I kinda want to reverse engineer this harbinger build for old time's sake..."

[End Flashback]

Good times...

[Gotejjeken.1267]

10 hours ago, calva.2914 said:

I wish for mech PvP you could choose to “sacrifice” your mech. Maybe have the mech traits do a different effect if your mech is sacrificed?  Cause in reality the mech ai is garbage for PvP.

I do wish they'd do something with Mech to make it not an insta throw when you see one on your team.  

 

8 hours ago, Azure The Heartless.3261 said:

A quick glance at the meta would tell you that of those two classes, one is significantly more flexible. I don't need to list out the cds of lightning reflexes and such and such, you know what they are oriented like and so do most people that will read this. 

If you mean skills that do pointless amounts of damage to proc shock aura and troll and entire class, then yes, lighting reflexes is what you want to model after.  

[arazoth.7290]

16 hours ago, calva.2914 said:

I wish for mech PvP you could choose to “sacrifice” your mech. Maybe have the mech traits do a different effect if your mech is sacrificed?  Cause in reality the mech ai is garbage for PvP.

F2 skill to fuse with mecha, like soulbeast but better looking that you are a mobile mecha yourself.

Idk, I just want mecha ppl in suits

[Etaoin.4362]

27 minutes ago, arazoth.7290 said:

I just want mecha ppl in suits

We all want mecha suits!

[arazoth.7290]

1 hour ago, Etaoin.4362 said:

We all want mecha suits!

Idk why, but I thought I saw this in some beta, probably missed some asura playing engi and thought back then already mecha suits 

[shion.2084]

18 hours ago, Arheundel.6451 said:

You did not answer the question. I can do more damage on an ele if I take arcane blast over a cantrip...but I will be easier to kill, I can take dagger offhand over focus for more mobily..but again I will be easier to kill. I don't see where engi is exactly weak, from wvw to pvp I still see good Engis holding the ground against anything but still struggling when caught off guard. those are the signs of a balanced class considering the whole game. From what I can see, an average engi does well against an average of anything else..and that's how it should be.

I did answer your question and pointed out that you'd missed the key point of my argument.   You can absolutely trait all classes for more damage, but the point is what damage you can do number wise, relative to the defences you are left with.

The engi's you see still playing scrapper are those that are in general very old school and too stubborn to give up.  All the flavour of the month stealth gank scrappers have fled to all the other classes.  So you see Cui Lan, Alien, Me, Locutous sometimes, Exalted, Woodstock, and basically not too many others running it at plat levels.   So your sample size is skewed by the fact that you will tend to see only the few of us left at any kind of a competitive level.

It also begs the question of what you are in right now... are you plat?   Are you seeing a lot of scrappers?  Is this EU or something?

[AlPower.2476]

It's a shame, and the worst thing is you have to deal with it.

>Engi having decent builds and a broken one ('nades)

>Anet nerf every other kitten build in order to keep the broken one but more balanced; making the rest unviable.

>Anet still nerfing engi and buffing others classes until even 'nades  builds are weak too

>Anet randomly still nerfing Engi (lock on, magnet, Elite Elixir, Ram)

Then they release a post about "what we have learned" pretending they're aware of their mistakes and they're listening the community. 

But here are your 1000 gems bikini, 25$ empty dlc; 53k benchmarks builds in PvE and warriors with 30k HP one shoting you in WvW 😄

Edited August 27 by AlPower.2476

[Arheundel.6451]

20 hours ago, AlPower.2476 said:

It's a shame, and the worst thing is you have to deal with it.

>Engi having decent builds and a broken one ('nades)

>Anet nerf every other kitten build in order to keep the broken one but more balanced; making the rest unviable.

>Anet still nerfing engi and buffing others classes until even 'nades  builds are weak too

>Anet randomly still nerfing Engi (lock on, magnet, Elite Elixir, Ram)

Then they release a post about "what we have learned" pretending they're aware of their mistakes and they're listening the community. 

But here are your 1000 gems bikini, 25$ empty dlc; 53k benchmarks builds in PvE and warriors with 30k HP one shoting you in WvW 😄

You forgot the part where even the broken build gets nerfed in the end, after everything else got nerfed already before

[CallousEye.5018]

Engi seems like it has generally been left behind in the arms race of blocks/aegis/projectile reflect, unblockable, ability to attack while invulnerable, and evade frames. Also Engi usually has relatively poor access to stability and teleports. What this means is engis are usually very good focus targets, you can usually lock them down and they have to use their defenses that stop their damage (static shield, elixir s, or shock shield) and/or they die.

Due to this, most Engi builds cannot brawl and they rely on extreme high burst (Nades + Shredder Gyro Scrapper, Static Discharge Holo), or they go full turtle (Condi Mech). The problem here is that if any of these builds are actually good, they're dumb and oppressive, e.g. "I got blew up by the engi in 0.3 seconds, this is dumb," or "I was cleaved down by the mech while the engi was AFK."

A lot of our abilities are kind of weak, especially on the Kits and Core weapons, while also it can be pretty hard to put together cohesive builds with kits, they often have identity crisis issues.

 

[CallousEye.5018]

Also why does engi have some of the worst drawbacks in the abilities they have? It seems like there is someone asking, "And what will the drawbacks be?" when they're designing engineer skills.

The other day I was playing Holo and got hit with chilled to the bone while in holo forge, had no stunbreak and the chill caused my deactivate photon forge cooldown to be increased, this caused me to overheat while stunned. It was amazing experience that turned me off a bit.

Then there is Mechanical "Genius," who was the genius that thought 360 range would be workable or otherwise you'll have penalty on your skills recharge?

What other classes abilities are actually designed to ruin your day? Many other classes designs will have issues if you whiff your ability, but aside from Harbinger's blight I'm not aware of others.

[shion.2084]

12 hours ago, CallousEye.5018 said:

Also why does engi have some of the worst drawbacks in the abilities they have? It seems like there is someone asking, "And what will the drawbacks be?" when they're designing engineer skills.

The other day I was playing Holo and got hit with chilled to the bone while in holo forge, had no stunbreak and the chill caused my deactivate photon forge cooldown to be increased, this caused me to overheat while stunned. It was amazing experience that turned me off a bit.

Then there is Mechanical "Genius," who was the genius that thought 360 range would be workable or otherwise you'll have penalty on your skills recharge?

What other classes abilities are actually designed to ruin your day? Many other classes designs will have issues if you whiff your ability, but aside from Harbinger's blight I'm not aware of others.

You forgot a heal skill..... that sets you on fire!