Roughly 45 minutes....

[Zera.9435]

That's about how long it takes to get into the open world in this new expansion when starting the story. The culprit of course is the needlessly long and drawn out introduction. The 45 minutes is if you skip the few things that can be skipped, by the way. IF you sit there and listen to/read all the dialog (worth doing only once), you are looking at well over an hour.

The story so far has done and is doing some good things. For example, it's great that the Tyrian Alliance is at least talking about loose ends like what to do about the remaining Sons of Svanir, the interesting tech rivalry between Kryta and Cantha, or the need for a new Khan-Ur. I also really like the references to GW1 with the Titans, Scepter of Orr, Vizier Khilbron, and the Flameseeker Prophecies.

The bad, however, cannot be ignored. As with SotO, your writers and voice actors are once again overusing mid-sentence pauses for dramatic effect (or trying to find a better word to sound smart), which needlessly lengthens the duration of conversation. Additionally, some of the Kodan speak much too slowly. Stoic Aldar and the Loremaster in particular, are heinously slow with their speech. There is just too much dialog that should be optional that is not optional. Stoic's reminiscence of his wife in the homestead portion is kind of reminding me of the immutable dialog between Kasmeer and Marjory's relationship drama during the set up of various mirrors to confront a certain 'Mursaat'. These very personal and very private conversations should not be at the forefront of our active gameplay. I appreciate that you want us to care about these characters, but it is hard to care when we are forced to listen in on such intimately private conversations.

Anyway, I have some suggestions on how to speed up the prologue and 'Unknown Territory':

• The delay to enter the alliance meeting because of the jumpy lionguard not recognizing us at the beginning needs to be shortened. Do this by allowing us to enter the building (and not go out of bounds) as soon as Anise calls to us, rather than waiting until the jumpy lionguard is done telling us about his job.
• The dialog with Anise prior to taking the portal to Janthir can stand to be shorter. All we needed was "Commander, here is the portal that the Astral Ward set up to get to Moon Camp in Janthir. Good luck." We did not need Anise trying to remark on how 'cute' the accommodations at Moon Camp are.
• Vanak's museum tour needs to be completely optional. It was interesting the first time around, but on subsequent playthroughs, it's not.
• Interacting with objects during the tour to trigger NPC dialog should be instant, not have a cast time.
• After we pacify the wild warclaw the first time with Barbed Vale, when she says 'Come' is when the whole party should begin moving towards the village, not monologue in place. Walk and talk!
• The moment that the title appears and we are welcomed to Janthir, that should be the end of the story step 'Unknown Territory'. It is at that point that we should be able to get out into the open playable world. The introduction with Stoic Alder should be its own separate instance after the fact.

This is JUST about the beginning portion prior to getting into the actual content. There are other story/dialog portions that are a little longer than they should be, but that's for another discussion. Please consider in future works that we want to get into the open world content in a reasonable time frame (20 minutes tops after skipping what can be skipped). There is plenty for us to do to keep us busy while we wait for the next major update. There is no need to pad the playtime this much. An hour-long story introduction is not a good thing for any game.

[Tula.6021]

8 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

That's about how long it takes to get into the open world in this new expansion when starting the story. The culprit of course is the needlessly long and drawn out introduction. The 45 minutes is if you skip the few things that can be skipped, by the way. IF you sit there and listen to/read all the dialog (worth doing only once), you are looking at well over an hour.

I played through all of act 1 in 3 hours with two friends last saturday when it took my first char 5 days 😅 But my first char was reading most things,  listening to all things (no skipping), doing all side quest things on the map (because it was so fun) - not done with all yet but at least the achievemnt that included them (+some more).

And I think those 3 hours can be shortened since we were still doing some achievements here and there that one or the other was missing.

Since HoT I gave up any hope about shorter dialouges or way to skip right to the things to do.
In German the voice actors do a great job. I like the slower speech of the Kodan, the older Kodan. Young ones like Poky talk as fast as anybody.

 

8 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

• The delay to enter the alliance meeting because of the jumpy lionguard not recognizing us at the beginning needs to be shortened. Do this by allowing us to enter the building (and not go out of bounds) as soon as Anise calls to us, rather than waiting until the jumpy lionguard is done telling us about his job.
• The dialog with Anise prior to taking the portal to Janthir can stand to be shorter. All we needed was "Commander, here is the portal that the Astral Ward set up to get to Moon Camp in Janthir. Good luck." We did not need Anise trying to remark on how 'cute' the accommodations at Moon Camp are.
• Vanak's museum tour needs to be completely optional. It was interesting the first time around, but on subsequent playthroughs, it's not.
• Interacting with objects during the tour to trigger NPC dialog should be instant, not have a cast time.
• After we pacify the wild warclaw the first time with Barbed Vale, when she says 'Come' is when the whole party should begin moving towards the village, not monologue in place. Walk and talk!
• The moment that the title appears and we are welcomed to Janthir, that should be the end of the story step 'Unknown Territory'. It is at that point that we should be able to get out into the open playable world. The introduction with Stoic Alder should be its own separate instance after the fact.

Sounds all good for replayng it.

I'd like it when ANet differs whether you play for the first time or the xth time and shortens progress if the player(s) wish.

That it took so long until I could run around and roam free was a downside for me first playthrough too. I see all that wilderness, I want to explore it, I was itchy for it, that excitement to uncover new stuff, pretty new stuff. I didn't want to be stuck there and listen to some blablablabla. Like a child that must sit still on a chair when it just wants to run around and laugh. I was that child.

[Tachenon.5270]

10 hours ago, Zera.9435 said:

 I appreciate that you want us to care about these characters, but it is hard to care when we are forced to listen in on such intimately private conversations.

I think it was somewhere around the Finding Balance step that I (figuratively, of course) threw up my hands and stopped giving a kitten about the story or any of the new characters. Too much blather, all too often delivered at a pace set so slow that a second coat of paint would be long since dried and peeling from age before the speaker finally got around to shutting the hell up. Even Caithe got in on it. She said something to the effect of, "I hope I'm not boring you," and I actually typed into chat "TOO LATE." That's when my sylvari guardian began to /sleep or /dance through the dialogue. Even out in the open world areas. Imagine playing chess, but every chess piece has to tell you about its experiences in some previous game and how once upon a time Avon created an aftershave bottle that looked just like dear old Uncle Wynnfred the White Knight, who participated in a legendary match between Peter Falk and Leonard Nimoy on the set of Colombo back in the 70s. Or was it William Shatner? Maybe it was 3D chess. Who knows. In a voice like a snail swimming in molasses. On a cold day. On Pluto.

/sleep

[EzyQzy.8620]

It is a bit mind boggling why the story was very long, when everyone just wants to see the map.

What should happen, once you enter the portal to Janthir, show the title, then drop the player off. That's it! Let them roam the map and kill some mobs, but not the next map. Also limit what they can do without going through the story, as a reminder that the story is important to start and finish.

Just let people roam the map without a very prolonged (or no) story , that's all people are asking really.

[Cronospere.8143]

Wasnt there already 4 topics on this? 

[swgs.6195]

I don't really understand what do you mean by creating this topic. You should be rather happy that expansion HAS a narrative and well writen story introduction, rather than pushing you straight onto new map. Farming and grinding is not only main focus of Guild Wars 2.

I don't know how to explain that to you, but there are two types of MMO if you count narration:

1. Those which has well writen personal story that players can interract and are integral part of. For those we can count both GW2/GW1 (another example is SWTOR and ESO);

2. Those which has overarching world story but each player is integral part of it on personal level and it could go the same way even without them (WoW and Final Fantasy XIV are currently mainly accused of this);

If you look a button to -> SKIP STORY, I must dissapoint you. It will never be added, because entire gameplay, entire idea of Guild Wars 2 is centered on player interraction with the story and stepping into role of Commander/Wayfinder.

If you want to skip story, then no problem just use portal in your Homestead, but what's the point of playin MMORPG if you want to skip RPG part. You could as well be playing any Hero Shooter, where there is story but it's not important for gameplay.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

To those complaining how long it takes to get to exploring the new area like it's a new thing.. all expansions take a while to reach the open world for the first time.
HoT also takes atleast 40 minutes to be allowed into the open world, PoF might be the quickest at ~30 minutes, EoD takes about an hour as well. Soto is almost almost an hour as well.
What else is worth to mention that half of that time in Soto is pretty much spent in Tyria.

[Hotride.2187]

58 minutes ago, IAmNotMatthew.1058 said:

To those complaining how long it takes to get to exploring the new area like it's a new thing.. all expansions take a while to reach the open world for the first time.
HoT also takes atleast 40 minutes to be allowed into the open world, PoF might be the quickest at ~30 minutes, EoD takes about an hour as well. Soto is almost almost an hour as well.
What else is worth to mention that half of that time in Soto is pretty much spent in Tyria.

What is also worth mentioning is that you actually play the game for SOME of the time, in previous expansions. As opposed to sitting in a meeting the entire time.

[IAmNotMatthew.1058]

17 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

What is also worth mentioning is that you actually play the game for SOME of the time, in previous expansions. As opposed to sitting in a meeting the entire time.

Like hiding from NPCs listening to them in Soto and talking to the Astral Ward afterwards for most of the time?
Or maybe talking with Aurene and the gnomes for half of EoD's introduction, then listen to Gorrik's insane ramblings for like 5 more minutes at the end?
Or like spending half of PoF's introduction talking with Kiel, the random dudes near Amnoon or the Guard at Amnoon?
Or maybe getting an update on how the attack or Mordy is going followed by spending half the time listening to noone trusting eachother when trying to make a strategy in HoT?

All the expansion introduction include a lot of talking to set the scene, JW does as well.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

Not the first thread but OP’s is perhaps the most constructive.

I like the story and the RP bits so like many here I don’t really want it trimmed of any dialog. However, an option to save time for those that do want to skip, particularly on second play through, would allow everyone to be happy.

[swgs.6195]

BTW.

Imagine how NPC's feel: 

 

[Tachenon.5270]

1 hour ago, swgs.6195 said:

If you look a button to -> SKIP STORY, I must dissapoint you. It will never be added, because entire gameplay, entire idea of Guild Wars 2 is centered on player interraction with the story and stepping into role of Commander/Wayfinder.

If you want to skip story, then no problem just use portal in your Homestead, but what's the point of playin MMORPG if you want to skip RPG part. You could as well be playing any Hero Shooter, where there is story but it's not important for gameplay.

It's not the STORY itself that bugs me. I generally like story in games like this. It's the confounded, dull, boring, endless, meandering, just shoot me already DELIVERY they're using to tell it here. Too much exposition, for one thing. Then there's too much exposition on top of that. And as if that wasn't enough, there's too much exposition.  Mass quantities of 'tell', nowhere near enough 'show'. Maybe some people like that. I don't.

[Ashen.2907]

A good story can, and generally should, be told without extensive exposition dumps. I want story. I don't want to skip it. Story is why I play RPGs (computer and tabletop). But how it is told matters. The technique referenced in the OP is an example of how writers are taught not to do it in entry level writing courses....

But it is a quicker and easier method of conveying information which translates to less expensive in this medium.

Edited August 28 by Ashen.2907

[SinisterSlay.6973]

I thought they nailed with with EoD.  Only a few minutes in and you have great music, epic fight.  Then the cool intro, the map.

Also, I thought Taimi fixed our communicators to make them secure.  Why do the random bears have access now?  This random communications made sense in Cantha.  It makes no sense now.  

I get so many spam calls I need a spam filter.  Can I get a pixel phone with call screen in Tyria so I can screen these calls?

Edited August 28 by SinisterSlay.6973

[ShatteredStars.6548]

So, you have to listen, oh well for you

Edited August 28 by ShatteredStars.6548

[ShatteredStars.6548]

Also the same people probably whined when Soto was to short.

[Zera.9435]

4 hours ago, Cronospere.8143 said:

Wasnt there already 4 topics on this? 

Yes, but none offer suggestions on how to change it for the better. The others are just "Story is too long."

[Zera.9435]

15 minutes ago, ShatteredStars.6548 said:

So, you have to listen, oh well for you

Listening is fine, but not when it is needlessly drawn out. Way too many words to convey simple things.

[Rallicus.8367]

I find it hilariously ironic that you're droning on in a similar fashion to what you're complaining about, when the obvious and easy solution is to allow a "skip ahead" button on the prologue to get straight into Lowlands. That's it, just skip ahead. No need to get complicated.

[Gaiawolf.8261]

3 minutes ago, Rallicus.8367 said:

I find it hilariously ironic that you're droning on in a similar fashion to what you're complaining about, when the obvious and easy solution is to allow a "skip ahead" button on the prologue to get straight into Lowlands. That's it, just skip ahead. No need to get complicated.

Even just an option to skip dialogue would go a long way.

[Apraxis.4803]

This is one of the most based things I've ever seen on this forum holy kitten I agree with all of it pretty much, that museum tour especially is cringe, especially since u have to wait for him to stop his current monologue before being allowed to interact with the next item. Also, the expansion and game would be better off if Anise was just killed lmao, I find everything about her absolutely obnoxious, there is literally nothing likeable about her, she is a zero sugar nothing burger of a character 

[Witch of Doom.5739]

I don't mind the story, and the characters are, for the most part, interesting.  But PLEASE let us read it and page through it instead of listening to it.  I read extremely quickly and would be finished with the story in a fraction of the time and be able to actually, you know, PLAY.

[Flowersunshine.7385]

Huh, as someone who usually plays explanative videos at 1.25 or even 1.5 speed, I thought the pacing was fine. I even toggled walking rather than running to slow myself down. (Not just in the instance, mind you. I walked from the portals in LA over the bridge towards the instance.) 

I did not feel like I was waiting around for people to get to the point at any point the story so far.

I'm on board with the walk and talk though. As long as we make sure the commander and npc pace is similar. I hate the run-stop-run-stop or the walk-run-walk-run I've had to do in the past. (I loved how EoD set the movement speed of the commander to that of the npcs in several instances, although apparently that was universally despised.)

I get that the devs don't want to risk npcs outrunning the commander, but in any instance where we are allowed to use mounts, npcs can just run at the standard movement speed and the player can catch up on a mount if they drift off.

[Zera.9435]

 

On 8/28/2024 at 11:24 AM, swgs.6195 said:

I don't really understand what do you mean by creating this topic. You should be rather happy that expansion HAS a narrative and well writen story introduction, rather than pushing you straight onto new map. Farming and grinding is not only main focus of Guild Wars 2.

I don't know how to explain that to you, but there are two types of MMO if you count narration:

1. Those which has well writen personal story that players can interract and are integral part of. For those we can count both GW2/GW1 (another example is SWTOR and ESO);

2. Those which has overarching world story but each player is integral part of it on personal level and it could go the same way even without them (WoW and Final Fantasy XIV are currently mainly accused of this);

If you look a button to -> SKIP STORY, I must dissapoint you. It will never be added, because entire gameplay, entire idea of Guild Wars 2 is centered on player interraction with the story and stepping into role of Commander/Wayfinder.

If you want to skip story, then no problem just use portal in your Homestead, but what's the point of playin MMORPG if you want to skip RPG part. You could as well be playing any Hero Shooter, where there is story but it's not important for gameplay.

I'm not complaining about the narrative itself, I'm complaining about how it is being presented. I'm not saying the writing is terrible (but it does have some issues, like fragmented sentences, for one example), just that it could be better. The issue is we are doing a whole lot of sitting around listening to NPCs talk with very little 'actual gameplay'.

At no point am I advocating for 'skip story'. I just want the amount of sitting around listening to NPCs talk (sitting around in meetings all day) to be kept to an absolute minimum.  We're here to play, not sit at a meeting that we are really only listening in on and not really deciding anything. This is all in the context of subsequent playthroughs. On my first play through I took my time and listened to what was being said and I liked what was being talked about.

Edited September 4 by Zera.9435
quoted the wrong user, sorry

[Zera.9435]

On 8/28/2024 at 4:21 PM, Rallicus.8367 said:

I find it hilariously ironic that you're droning on in a similar fashion to what you're complaining about, when the obvious and easy solution is to allow a "skip ahead" button on the prologue to get straight into Lowlands. That's it, just skip ahead. No need to get complicated.

It's called feedback with supporting statements. No one is forcing you to sit there and read my post. We are, however, being forced to sit in on needlessly long NPC dialog in-game. This post is meant as feedback for ArenaNet, not for fake internet points.