A New PvP Mode is Coming to Guild Wars 2--We Need Your Help Developing It!

[Luthan.5236]

From the first match ... I didn't really unterstand the mode yet. 😄 (Not sure if it is easier to understand for new players than a simple conquest with capture and hold lol.) Confusingly there seemed to be a few flags on the mini map. But I think I just saw 1 circle that the enemy players moved towards our spawn and then it was an instant win. Like ... 3-4 minutes or so? Short match.

Even in death matches you have a bit more rounds. (3 or so.)

Edit: I think it could be interesting trying to utilize 3 patches (since the sides could be made available for this as well - not  just 1 circle + 2 swords icons with a buff)

Edit2: After the 2nd match I got bored. Gonna skip it until the "real" PvP is back again in ranked. Woud need a huge overhaul (or totally different mode) to make me try again. Not my thing. Needs to encourage more splitting up the team. And the mini red/blue flags (like 2 red flags 2 blue flags) in the mini map are too confusing. Sometimes at the same point where the circle is ... hard to find it when also player class icons are appearing there. Being blue and having an enemy colored circle (probably in their color to indicate it is their goal to move towards) also feels to confusing - that should be the own team color instead.

I think I would not tick the checkbox if this was in unranked. Well ... I don't play unranked anyways and I'm glad that - besides from the mini seasons in between - the ranked will stay conquest always.

Edited September 10 by Luthan.5236

[lexasaniaalex.9860]

I'm surprised that I write on the forum, never did it before, but decided to do it after horrible experience with this new mode:

- People saying it's fast. Aye, only when it's one side faceroll from the winning team. Otherwise, if it's two equal team skill and specs-combination wise, that allow heal-res wars.. It will be 8-10 minutes. I don't see it's as a positive point, since either version of the match (that I described above) is just a sign of a bad balance and badly done mode.

- You can feel how terrible is balance and meta here much more than in Conquest cause this 'simple' 5vs5 fights. And if it's a winning team, they don't need to take relics, they do great with their 5 men stand and it's just a distraction, while the losing team get almost nothing from it, it's not powerful enough to overturn the tide of the constant stun-aoe-heal-res composition. The same about 'super-power' to push the 'circle' - you pushed it a bit back from your base now what?

- The mode is boring. Combat system is amazing in GW2, and in Conquest it can be spread between points, while you will face 5vs5 , due to terrain, the size of the capturing point and mechanics of the map, it feels differently, even with this balance, more space, more things to do and to change, and more distraction to move this 5vs5 fight. You can't do it here. You need to push or to hold it at least, and you feel those aoe (bigger than the pushed circle) stuns and so on much harder. And mostly it's just a stomp. Plus, as I said, the winning team doesn't need mechanics of the map at all, it's a distraction from their winning strategy - their winning composition, meta build and skill. 

Why you couldn't take the ideas from other games? SWTOR, for example, have so many different mods. The MMORPG at dying stage and much worse condition, aye, but anyway, defuse the bomb, huttball and so on. You just took the most boring and obvious mode from Shooters and expected what exactly? I don't think you need some tests to see what it would be. It was obvious from me since the announcement - meta wars at one place of the map with the fight that not engaging at all. Especially considering that it's still 5vs5. Too much that make it worse than 3v3 and not enough to feel the fight differently and at least new, like 8v8 or 10v10. 

Why you did even try eternal testing, taking in consideration the balance and meta state, to see where it will lead? It's very predictable outcome. And it's no way a mode for the newcomers. It's much worse than Conquest -  fewer things on the map to focus, aye, yet, they need to know specs and meta and combat so well to survive and even do something there. I would say it's worse than even Stronghold for newcomers. You can do something there, you can 'hide' between the tasks or do something while the enemies focus this or that or spread on the map. The same about Conquest. Here. You can't do anything at all. Dead, dead, dead. That's the way of the newcomers here. That is, also, is obvious and predictable -  like you don't know the stats of the PvP population or what? Why are you surprised if I'm not? 

Anyway, was very excited about something new for PvP, finally, yet, here we go, horrible mode that making you realize much more how horrible is balance and meta, the pips system (why you thought it's a good idea to push people to test this mode by Ranked queue? I want my rewards from it, but I really don't want to play this mode after today's experience, and getting 3 pips for a lose.. Aye, what a way to farm.. For bots, this mode will be just a living fantasy for them), the PvP rewards.

[coro.3176]

While I think it has some flaws (mostly covered by others) - I think it's pretty fun, and I'm enjoying it more than conquest. Could be the novelty, but over all, not bad.

[Sereath.1428]

Doom-posting fest.

"Fukn devs, just stop experimenting with dumb modes and put more into Conquest! Since we all love conquest, the rest just dont know it."
"I actually won a game by doing that weird mechanic alone, so dumb." - "Games are so lopsided and unrecoverable!"
"This is not simple at all!" - "Just a push and team fight spam in the middle mode? That's it?"

Alright.

Edited September 11 by Sereath.1428

[Gotejjeken.1267]

After actually playing it...

Feel like my initial gut was correct in that comp matters a lot, others have covered this but, if you don't have teamfights in your comp then you basically lose.  The game I played actually didn't last long enough for any secondary objective or whatnot to spawn, we basically won the first fight and then the enemy was too scattered to contest anymore, pushed it to their base and won.

In terms of visuals, we have mine carts in SAB...use them here.  The dead silent atmosphere and a point just ethereally moving along some invisible line is...unsettling? It transcends 'beta test' into feeling like you just warped into a glitched map.  It's weird.

For overall feedback--it needs more stages.  I mentioned this earlier, but it really did/does remind me of TF2 Payload; difference is there the game is multi-staged.  This is imperative as it allows for a comeback, it is not an all or nothing affair that Push currently is.  I would advocate for three stages, have only one team push and the other defend, and allowing for class swaps between stages.   

If you could recreate something like TF2's Gold Rush map in GW2, you'd actually have something special on your hands.  

 

[ShatteredStars.6548]

On 9/5/2024 at 10:31 PM, Bazsi.2734 said:

Oh look at that. Turns out the developers do remember PvP exists. I think this is 6 years too late, but don't let my cynicism discourage the initiative... best of luck with developing new gamemodes! It might even end up revitalizing the gamemode, which can't be a bad thing.

Nothing is never too late.

[ConorRhysT.3819]

It is very much a comp based game mode.

A simple fix to make it much more "balanceable" would be single-pick classes per team.

There is no way, in this game mode - you are going to balance 2 firebrands + 1 heal tempest pushing an objective. 

[DarkK.7368]

I tried one game and I want to give some feedback. Maybe I'm not the public for this. I played PVP for years daily, I love it. But let's say, i'm more of a ... dueler, or node capper. If for example we think in League of Legends, I love getting lost in the jungle, going for objectives and finding randoms 1vs1's. I like teamfights? Sure. But not forced into them.

This new game mode is a forced constant 5vs5 pretty much. It's like League of Legends ARAM, the only mode that pretty much survived coexisting with main mode, and that's why I raise it as an example. There is some people that likes the constant 5vs5? The "Not thinking" like someone said ingame before? Sure, it may have its public. But for me, I dislike it, the same way I disliked 2vs2 and 3vs3. I want objectives and I want random duels while going for these objectives.

Also map too simple. No different heights, spots to use strategically...

The game can stay if this brings more population and coexist with current one, I like anything that keeps PVP alive as long as coexists, but meh. I appreciate the effort and I hope for good stuff

Edited September 11 by DarkK.7368

[Trevor Boyer.6524]

This game mode is awesome so far.

I'll drop more elaborate feedback later.

This actually has good dynamic. Nothing stale about it at all.

[MrCrowe.8417]

Consider making this a 3v3 mode.

[coro.3176]

Early impression is that long range 5-target skills (eg. Chilled to the Bone , but also support skills) are really strong in this mode, maybe too strong.

[arazoth.7290]

more fun then I thought yea, looks hopefull to be good mode. Does there need small adjustments and maybe something small added, yes. 

They could make some more incomjng damage for who sit on that node because I didn't felt it today while perma sitting it and holding.

Buffs could maybe get activated if you reach with u move/reach with ut node through a specific point. Make the current buffs more worthwhile to take !!! So that it changes dynamic a lot if enemy can hold the node too much. And this is from experience that the enemy couldn't take node from me/team

And add a treb in this place thank youuu, even if it's slow it will be usefull bc of how this mode works.

Edited September 11 by arazoth.7290

[Shagie.7612]

I think the ruleset of the mode is very fun, but what's gonna make it unenjoyable is class design.

Projectile weapons? Effectively unplayable because of projectile hate, that's been an issue since EoD dropped but now you have no ability to go somewhere else.
Condition builds? Most of them will be unplayable/ineffective.

That's not good for a mode that's meant to be an intro to PvP, if you're extremely limited in what you can actually play because it's a permanent team fight.

Enemy team has a Tempest so they have perma 5 man mag/shocking/chill aura? Have fun. What are we, WvW?

It's a casual mode, and it's fast so when your team just loses by composition it doesn't really matter, but that's not exactly a recipe for long term success.
No newcomer's gonna enjoy it very much if they can't ever walk near the point or hurt anyone on it.

[HardStuckBronze.2439]

Overall I like the new game mode. Any new content for PvP is a good thing. A few suggestions: 

1) Add more terrain and obstacles to the maps 

2) I’m undecided on this but since it’s essentially one big midflight maybe allowing build swapping prior to respawn would be nice. I kind of liked that feature from death match. Allows you a second chance if you happen to enter into a match where your team comp is hard countered. Not swapping to a completely different character but being allowed to adjust traits and gear 

—— 

I’d also like to see death match a queable option at least in unranked during main conquest season.  If we are going to have 2v2 and 3v3 tournaments would be nice to be able to queue and practice outside of custom arenas

[Dreggon.6598]

In 5v5, if you can't move a bunker, you go to a different node. Or maybe your team sucks at big teamfights but your sidenode game is on point. Maybe their healer is a huge force multiplier that you can't beat, but if you split them from their team, you can pick people off and win on rotations. A standard PvP conquest game has a number of different factors that affect a match's outcome.

Can't really do that here. If you can't shift the bunker off the single cap, too bad; you can't go anywhere else. Want to split up the enemy team? That's nice. They have no reason to split up, you have no way to apply any kind of side pressure, and you're going to spend the entire game trickling in on respawn with zero ability to +1 or outnumber anybody.

Suggestion: add meaningful side nodes to compel people off the cart. The coliseum/temple powers aren't sufficient.

Idea for those side nodes: They act as additional people on the cart for the owning team, allowing the cart to be pushed even if you're outnumbered. You'll still have to stand on the cart to push it (unless nobody is there and you own both points) but a 5-stack that ignores the side nodes could have the cart pushed against them by only one person, so an enemy trickling in one-by-one would eventually win even against 5 on the cart.

[Mistwraithe.3106]

2 hours ago, DarkK.7368 said:

I tried one game and I want to give some feedback. Maybe I'm not the public for this. I played PVP for years daily, I love it. But let's say, i'm more of a ... dueler, or node capper. If for example we think in League of Legends, I love getting lost in the jungle, going for objectives and finding randoms 1vs1's. I like teamfights? Sure. But not forced into them.

This new game mode is a forced constant 5vs5 pretty much. It's like League of Legends ARAM, the only mode that pretty much survived coexisting with main mode, and that's why I raise it as an example. There is some people that likes the constant 5vs5? The "Not thinking" like someone said ingame before? Sure, it may have its public. But for me, I dislike it, the same way I disliked 2vs2 and 3vs3. I want objectives and I want random duels while going for these objectives.

I think this is the most accurate analysis so far. Push fulfills a vaguely similar role to LoL ARAM with fast respawning, frantic 5v5 action, shorter matches, etc.

It isn't going to appeal to everyone, particularly since it intrinsically loses a fair amount of the strategy from other more complex modes with multiple nodes so for some vets it's going to feel to superficial/limited. But it could be quite popular still and a much easier stepping stone for new PvP players to gain experience while having fun.

Team comp seems the trickiest one. There needs to be some way of respeccing otherwise your matchup can turn out to be poor for team fighting (for a similar reason LoL ARAM has respecs too).

[arazoth.7290]

43 minutes ago, Dreggon.6598 said:

In 5v5, if you can't move a bunker, you go to a different node. Or maybe your team sucks at big teamfights but your sidenode game is on point. Maybe their healer is a huge force multiplier that you can't beat, but if you split them from their team, you can pick people off and win on rotations. A standard PvP conquest game has a number of different factors that affect a match's outcome.

Can't really do that here. If you can't shift the bunker off the single cap, too bad; you can't go anywhere else. Want to split up the enemy team? That's nice. They have no reason to split up, you have no way to apply any kind of side pressure, and you're going to spend the entire game trickling in on respawn with zero ability to +1 or outnumber anybody.

Suggestion: add meaningful side nodes to compel people off the cart. The coliseum/temple powers aren't sufficient.

Idea for those side nodes: They act as additional people on the cart for the owning team, allowing the cart to be pushed even if you're outnumbered. You'll still have to stand on the cart to push it (unless nobody is there and you own both points) but a 5-stack that ignores the side nodes could have the cart pushed against them by only one person, so an enemy trickling in one-by-one would eventually win even against 5 on the cart.

Side nodes more nty => bc just more duelist will sit on it while the main is that orher node in middle, enemy team doesn't has enough ppl to get them off side nodes and off main node.

==> solution:

1) make the buffs more meaningfull

2) If ppl stand in the moving node they gain even more incoming damage/less selfheal/less outgoing heal/less outgoing damage.

3) add trebuchette in the game.

For this game mode it will work. And newer players who don't know well enough to teamfight can use treb

[calva.2914]

Just did 20ish games.

I definitely enjoy it. Super fast pace, quick games and some real comebacks. I didn’t run into any issues with a super bunker build on the point and not dying. Didn’t have too many complete blow outs, maybe 2 or 3. 
 

The main issue I found:

At times it was more frustrating than conquest. It seemed like people were afraid of the objective lol. And if you get off the node for a split second while it’s contested it was just gone. Maybe once people understand the mode a little better this won’t be as large of an issue.

 

Overall I’ve had a blast with the new mode. Well done. I’m curious to see how I’ll feel about it in 2 weeks.

[Last Crab.6054]

On 9/6/2024 at 11:23 PM, arazoth.7290 said:

It's beta so agreed 

nah, if you haven't been bothered to reach 20 on pvp level, then opinion isnt relevant for this game

[coro.3176]

Most of the games so far have been really fun, chaotic, good fights

Some of the games have been clearly lost immediately due to comp differences. Eg. one team has like 3 bubbles + reflect aura, and the other team is all projectiles. These games are kittening stupid and are not fun. I worry that the meta will quickly settle around a clear "best" comp with support cycling boons and reflects and that will just be all anyone plays.

[jeferson.5679]

Pvp is my main game mode for years in gw2, i really liked this new game mode, but there are some problems that make the game feel so bad. 

the main problem is the bunker and the healers that move around the circle and keep everyone alive in there.

it would help a lot to be more fun if the events would serve as an Attack against the enemies that are in the circle, something like skyhammer. 

[Dietoliveko.1642]

Ello! Thank-you Anet for the new gamemode!

It's a lot of fun, but its a little too chaotic? In conquest a team fight is normally 3v3 and then if a roamer or both roamers join, its like 4v4. 5v5 feels like so much that I can barely keep track of anything happening. I feel the biggest benefit to this game mode is it offers something new with an easy straight forward objective to rally behind.

Pros:
- Some matches are really quick
- Objective is easy to understand without a ton of big decision making.
- Team fighting is highly encourage which takes the pressure off of stressful individual performance

Cons:
- If you lose the opening team fight you basically lose the game. If feels incredibly difficult to rally from staggered spawns.
- Supports feel not very valuable, a lot of spread seems to happen around the points, and the effective strategies so far seem to be either bombing the objective with damage or stuns, or spreading out around it.

In terms of serving its purpose to help introduce pvp, I feel like with lots of innovations maybe this could serve its purpose? In this prototype state, I feel like this map is harder than conquest. The side nodes of conquest really help you handle skill gaps between players, without them, your team always has to be better than all 5 other players. Which if you're a new pvp player, that becomes a difficult lift. Hopeful to see where this goes.

[TheQuickFox.3826]

Very early experience: It's steam roll or be steam rolled. Once players starts dying it's a 5v4 or worse and while the defeated player waits for the respawn timer the team with 5 players alive gets more kills.

With conquest and stronghold you have meaningful side objectives to do when you lost the central fight. With conquest you can go take undefended points and with stronghold you can kill guards and get door breakers, or kill the enemy door breakers. Then when everyone is back you can give the main fight another try, or split them if you can't win the team fight.

With this mode, it looks like it's just the team fight. The group that wins the team fight wins the game.

[Last Crab.6054]

There seems to be areas in the map where damage based reveal is not working.

Example, a stealthed untamed using longbow unleashed and is completely invisible while firing the whole skill and follow up skill.

It seems that the gray artifacts on the middle path are the best place to do this, especially from an elevated position.

Edited September 11 by Last Crab.6054

[Firebaall.5127]

DuoQ problems are even more exaggerated in this mode.

It's time to get rid of this kitten.

Nothing like seeing a complimented pair of bunker buddies rolling a game.  With the one objective?  forget about it.

This mode is half-baked and needs a major overhaul if it wants to be successful.   

A simple thing like removing duoQ should be a no brainer.