How to improve at fractals?

[Aphandra.9672]

Hello everyone,

I tried lots of web search about how to get into fractals, but 99.9% is about getting some Ascended gear (done actually), explaining agony resistance (have some) and overcoming worries about what will happen (that took long, I became Ascended) and just LFG T1 dailies.

So, the community is nice, especially with the new expansion (kind of my thought behind starting now), lots of newbie groups, and T1 is all about it.
Thus the first step is done, I join groups and we usually succeed.

My aim is to actually learn and become more than a sturdy Core Celestial Support Elementalist tagging along.
Sure, it works well enough to tick the achievements I was after (say, S1E1 mastery) as well as complete some daily-weekly stuff for rewards at my level.

I like for example personal stories or jumping puzzles because I have to figure them out. Even if I get help, but I can go back and solve it, learn it.
Most fractals seem to have an exploring or puzzle element but under pressure, we simply don't get to learn. The rope-parachute place is a big example, but virtually every single one.

So, what is the best approach to do it? Learn fractal specific stuff?
What I can think about is starting a group specifically for learning, something like 1-5, over and over, and once I'm comfy, shift up.
Or, should I simply lay back and expect 2-3 months at T1, just do dailies, have fun, it will happen, no rush?
I don't particularly care about elevating to T2-T3, merely looking to feel that I'm contributing to those T1s well.

The other half is, how do you know whether in a group you're useful or a liability? Especially with this spec, where I'm (merrily!) flip-flopping fire, water and bits of air depending on what appears to be needed (usually, healing is welcome).

Thanks!

[Vinceman.4572]

If you are confident enough in T1 move to T2. It will be easy there as well almost all of your runs because real threats will only start at T3. T3 will still be lenient for many groups but sometimes it can be tricky at some points if there are too many inexperienced players. And you will meet those more often than you think. Not everyone is trying to learn and adapt and rushes into content they are not prepared for.
If you feel insecure about puzzles, mechanics or anything else in certain fractals read the wiki description of them or watch some youtube videos. For the latest ones there are also lots of video guides with explanations.

[UncreativeGreen.2019]

6 hours ago, Vinceman.4572 said:

For the latest ones there are also lots of video guides with explanations.

https://hardstuck.gg/gw2/guides/fractals/
 

This is a really good source.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

YOLO and play them, going up tier by tier.
Observe and copy ppl doing skip techniques, ask them to explain how it works.

(And BE the healer, don't be 4/5 begging for a heal in LFG.
No, IDFC if you hate healing, do it anyway.
You think I want to sit there while my teammates eat every mechanic possible, while I was learning T1-early T4?
But being a healer is the easiest way to fill a group AND hard carry your team to success, and ofc, HP padding when WE make the mistakes)

[Cyninja.2954]

I'd suggest a guild which runs fractals and is willing to teach new players.

You can advance fractals naturally and most mechanics can be learned on T1 (puzzle mechanics, not all enemies attacks).

There are also video guides and written guides.

Finally I'd recommend to make yourself aware of this games group meta setup, which is:

- 1 quickness support

- 1 alacrity supprt

- 3 dps

In general one of the 2 supports will be defensive, the other offensive unless you are playing on a high skill level as some T4 challenge mode groups do. The supports are usually also in change of providing all the other offensive boons to (might and fury).

In general you should transition away from core builds and run a proper dps or support build. Though most players won't mind about this until you actually hit T4 fractals (but T3 can be painful with non proper builds).

[Phyb.6704]

13 hours ago, Aphandra.9672 said:

Hello everyone,

I tried lots of web search about how to get into fractals, but 99.9% is about getting some Ascended gear (done actually), explaining agony resistance (have some) and overcoming worries about what will happen (that took long, I became Ascended) and just LFG T1 dailies.

So, the community is nice, especially with the new expansion (kind of my thought behind starting now), lots of newbie groups, and T1 is all about it.
Thus the first step is done, I join groups and we usually succeed.

My aim is to actually learn and become more than a sturdy Core Celestial Support Elementalist tagging along.
Sure, it works well enough to tick the achievements I was after (say, S1E1 mastery) as well as complete some daily-weekly stuff for rewards at my level.

I like for example personal stories or jumping puzzles because I have to figure them out. Even if I get help, but I can go back and solve it, learn it.
Most fractals seem to have an exploring or puzzle element but under pressure, we simply don't get to learn. The rope-parachute place is a big example, but virtually every single one.

So, what is the best approach to do it? Learn fractal specific stuff?
What I can think about is starting a group specifically for learning, something like 1-5, over and over, and once I'm comfy, shift up.
Or, should I simply lay back and expect 2-3 months at T1, just do dailies, have fun, it will happen, no rush?
I don't particularly care about elevating to T2-T3, merely looking to feel that I'm contributing to those T1s well.

The other half is, how do you know whether in a group you're useful or a liability? Especially with this spec, where I'm (merrily!) flip-flopping fire, water and bits of air depending on what appears to be needed (usually, healing is welcome).

Thanks!

You will not learn anything in T1

Get the AR and do T3.

T1 and T2 you can ignore most mechanics with good dps and heals so groups will just go UNGA and thats it. You will learn in T3. Just ask the group saying you have only done this fractal in lower teirs where groups ignored the mechanics. The mechanics are really simple. Players will type 1 line so you know and then start. 

This is also because the "mechanics" may chance based on the group. A full heal gear scourge or druid will still just ingore most mechanics in a t3 silent surf. They would just have you stack and ignore the "islands" well others may actually need you to do the "island" mechanic. Because of this most players understand when some don't know certain mechanics. 

--------------------------------

And though you may not like reading this. You can do all the content with a group in full celestial gear but it is drastically slower then having people focus into a given area. Keep non elite specs and celestial to open world. In group content focus into something specific.

1. Heals with quickness or alac.

2. Dps with quickness or alac.

3. The remaining 3 pure dps.

Celestial will not be wanted in group content since its way slower then just having a healer with boon uptime, 1 dps with boon uptime and 3 pure dps. Most wont give a kitten if a dps is healing. The healers does enough. It's a waste. Choose what you want to do in group content and build a ascended set to do it. 

Once again its not because you cant do the content with the whole group in celestial. It is that it is WAY slower. You do not have to be meta but a celestial Revenant doing 20k dps vs a full dps gear Revenant doing 40-50k dps is a big dif. You can go off meta but dropping to over half the dps is a bit much. Wanting to play a build that does 33k dps instead of 40k is w/e but don't be that person making the content take way longer then it needs to. It becomes more about consideration for others time.

----------------------------------

The days of having to really care about mechanics like when dungeons used to be hard.... are gone.  all pretty easy. You can literally solo silent surf cm boss in t4 with a celestial herald. It will just take 2 hours. The concern is speed most of the time.

 

[zeyeti.8347]

10 hours ago, Phyb.6704 said:

You will not learn anything in T1

Get the AR and do T3.

T1 and T2 you can ignore most mechanics with good dps and heals so groups will just go UNGA and thats it. You will learn in T3. Just ask the group saying you have only done this fractal in lower teirs where groups ignored the mechanics. The mechanics are really simple. Players will type 1 line so you know and then start. 

This is also because the "mechanics" may chance based on the group. A full heal gear scourge or druid will still just ingore most mechanics in a t3 silent surf. They would just have you stack and ignore the "islands" well others may actually need you to do the "island" mechanic. Because of this most players understand when some don't know certain mechanics. 

--------------------------------

And though you may not like reading this. You can do all the content with a group in full celestial gear but it is drastically slower then having people focus into a given area. Keep non elite specs and celestial to open world. In group content focus into something specific.

1. Heals with quickness or alac.

2. Dps with quickness or alac.

3. The remaining 3 pure dps.

Celestial will not be wanted in group content since its way slower then just having a healer with boon uptime, 1 dps with boon uptime and 3 pure dps. Most wont give a kitten if a dps is healing. The healers does enough. It's a waste. Choose what you want to do in group content and build a ascended set to do it. 

Once again its not because you cant do the content with the whole group in celestial. It is that it is WAY slower. You do not have to be meta but a celestial Revenant doing 20k dps vs a full dps gear Revenant doing 40-50k dps is a big dif. You can go off meta but dropping to over half the dps is a bit much. Wanting to play a build that does 33k dps instead of 40k is w/e but don't be that person making the content take way longer then it needs to. It becomes more about consideration for others time.

----------------------------------

The days of having to really care about mechanics like when dungeons used to be hard.... are gone.  all pretty easy. You can literally solo silent surf cm boss in t4 with a celestial herald. It will just take 2 hours. The concern is speed most of the time.

 

Actually have to disagree , fractals are by far the most "learning" endgame content , by doing first t1 then going up the player will meet stuff he already know , but with some added mechanics , more hp , damage from enemies and especially the instabilities.

Here you adress someone who is just getting into it , his first goal is not obviously speedrunning but more about learning the mechanics of fractals to not be a burden for his team (by playing celestial tempest for example ^^, slapping some alac but that's all)

I seriously endorse starting from the bottom and going up when it feels like stuff become really ez , no need tro stay a whole week in t1... just couple of days then go up faster from t2-t3-t4 and maybe challenge mod.

For Ar management it's a stupid , but if you choose to put Ar on a character able to do all kind of stuff like necro or mesmer for example , able to be a good condi , power dps or healer (while ppl seems to always prefer the good old hfb) it's gonna make stuff easier , because putting the right amount of agony on 2-3 characters ain't cheap at all, so better choose an all rounded class you play easily with , able to multirole , making finding a group way easier (thus condi is not really required , it's mostly used on cm cause the bosses have way more hp than normal , only for cm 98,99 and 100 , the rest is bursted with power easily)

Just a warning , don't be puzzled if it seems t4 are easier than t3 , people who look to play into t3 fracs don't rely mostly on meta and will go often out without boon coverage and healer , t4 and cm people always look for full offensiv boon coverage (+some defensiv) and a healer , making the run way easier.

But what i agree with Phyb is that fractals with higher level people are speedruns , objectively doing so much dps that the boss skip half or 100% of his mechanics (like skorvald just able to do his monologue), but with a starting player this ain't gonna occur immediately. So take your time , i've seen so much player with +150 Agony res. rushing into t4 and be a burden for their teammates.

[MercurialKuroSludge.8974]

21 hours ago, Phyb.6704 said:

Get the AR and do T3.

T3 is hell, and anyone who recommends going there, have not actually progged Fractals much.
 

10 hours ago, zeyeti.8347 said:

Condi is not really required , it's mostly used on cm cause the bosses have way more hp than normal , only for cm 98,99 and 100

Condi is not very good on 100 CM unless your group is highly coordinated.
The most common problem on a stable LT CM clear, is actually not having enuf Glutt, and having too much Condi dps makes SLOWING down difficult to control, not to mention its inherently disadvantaged on Add phase.
Envy orbs also give bonus Boon Duration, not just Condi Dmg only like most ppl think, which means you can just as well run a PBoon and get decent benefits.
98/99 doesn't favor Condi becuz of the HP, they favor it becuz most of the time Condi builds get far more dmg uptime than Power builds do, either thru range, mechanics, or both.

[Zohane.7208]

My take on this:

First of in general I recommend doing the tiers, since each is useful in learning the fractals.

• T1 is where you learn the basic workings of each fractal, nothing really hurts and you don't need any AR (Agony Resistance), except for 21-25.
• In T2 the mechanics start to hurt you a bit so you're gonna learn to avoid them or otherwise deal with them.
• In T3 you need to know what you're doing because otherwise you'll suffer badly. (Incidentally this is also where you'll see most of the ragequitting, blame-casting, angry people, so prepare for a nightmare unless you have a statc team or a good guild to fall back on.)
• When you finally reach T4 you can relax; by now you know the fractals reasonbly well and you'll fin that the teams are (usually) made up of competent people who also know the content and just wants to get it done smoothly. T4 is also mostly made up of nice people who are ready to forgive you if you admit to being new to T4.
• When you feel that T4 is getting reasonably easy you can safely go into the CMs, but that's also where you need to really know stuff so you should probably read up on the different CM mechanics before you start, and then you need to find a no-UFE group or ask to get in on a low-UFE group - but that's a matter for another discussion 🙂

As for progressing through each tier, I kind of recommend you go with the daily and recommended fractals, that gives you a decent variation as well as some better loot.

Regarding build, T4 teams are almost always made up of 1 boonheal, 1 boondps, and 3 pure dps. The 2 boons should match so you get both alacrity and quickness, as well as all other boons. This was the 3.5 DPS-ers can focus more on pure dps output. To that end, your idea of a cele core healer really won't cut it, there's a lot better build options for healers - be it quickheal or alacheal. Of course you can use a core healer but you will most likely struggle to find pug teams so that's probably more useful in a static group of like minded people.

[SoftFootpaws.9134]

i'm going to be honest with you here, an experienced player can generally solo the first tier of fractals (and most dungeons), so if you're still having a struggle getting past them and can't just carry your group without any problems, you're probably not ready for the max tier just yet.

 

i will also warn you up front: you need an elite specialisation to play fractals, and most content in the game. while core classes can do some decent damage on pure dps builds, they can't do any real boons or healing,. and you'll be limited to one single role (damage) with very strict builds as well as have a hard time getting ascended gear, which is like candy to receive in the living world seasons. i would consider buying path of fire which unlocks two elite specialisations per class!

 

furthermore, the harsh reality is that a good player does about the same damage (and healing!) as an entire training group combined. if you look in arcdps, the majority of players in your groups are probably doing something like 5k dps each due to poor builds and a lack of boon uptime; this is actually the same kind of damage a dedicated healer alone does at the max tier while running harrier's gear and a decent build.

 

i would also care of using other suggestions in this thread that you should be running a dedicated build in the third tier or lower, this likely will lead to frustration. i think you should never play a dedicated healer on tier 1-3 or rec (daily recommended fractals), and you should never rely on allies for anything at these levels. as they will likely hold you back,  and the group will fail repeatedly because four players can't seem to do what you can by yourself.

 

my recommendation is to get an open-world (not instanced content) build that provides all of its own boons and healing to allies (ele, rev, etc.) and jump straight to the third tier. the reason to not use a dedicated fractal damage or healing build is because at all the lower tiers, players generally won't be using proper party compositions and while you can make up for some of it with a good healing build, a healer is generally considered a waste of a slot below the max tier when hybrid builds can easily heal at these levels. something like celestial alacrity tempest will completely annihilate enemies with 20k+ dps in real fights while also still keeping allies fully topped up.

 

once you have mastered your gameplay of all the fractals themselves, you should be able to carry the fights and you can work on getting your full 150 agony resist and learning a dedicated fractal build and rotation as well as filling in specific spots in the party composition/soft-trinity, then aim for challenge modes.

Edited September 8 by SoftFootpaws.9134

[Zohane.7208]

8 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i'm going to be honest with you here, an experienced player can generally solo the first tier of fractals (and most dungeons), so if you're still having a struggle getting past them and can't just carry your group without any problems, you're probably not ready for the max tier just yet.

Ok, so according to this I'm not an experienced player, since I can't solo more than maybe 1-2 of the T1 fractals, and I'm also not ready to T4 since I can't carry lower tiers without problems.
Good thing I don't let that bother me during my daily fractals run since I always do T4 🙂

[Cyninja.2954]

5 hours ago, Zohane.7208 said:

Ok, so according to this I'm not an experienced player, since I can't solo more than maybe 1-2 of the T1 fractals, and I'm also not ready to T4 since I can't carry lower tiers without problems.
Good thing I don't let that bother me during my daily fractals run since I always do T4 🙂

"Experience" is obviously a subjective term. SoftFootpaws.9134 is just trying to make the point relatable for an inexperienced player.

He could could have explained how there are huge variances in players which run T4 fractals (and the range is HUGE, given T4 fractals can easily be cleared, all of them, with a group of 5k dps plebs). Then also mention how there is challenge modes, which while tighter can also be completed by a still large range of ability/performance.

Relate-ability wise and for ease of understanding I'd say telling someone that experienced players are having no issues in lower tier fractals is a good way of providing understandable bar.

13 hours ago, SoftFootpaws.9134 said:

i would also care of using other suggestions in this thread that you should be running a dedicated build in the third tier or lower, this likely will lead to frustration. i think you should never play a dedicated healer on tier 1-3 or rec (daily recommended fractals), and you should never rely on allies for anything at these levels. as they will likely hold you back,  and the group will fail repeatedly because four players can't seem to do what you can by yourself.

 

my recommendation is to get an open-world (not instanced content) build that provides all of its own boons and healing to allies (ele, rev, etc.) and jump straight to the third tier. the reason to not use a dedicated fractal damage or healing build is because at all the lower tiers, players generally won't be using proper party compositions and while you can make up for some of it with a good healing build, a healer is generally considered a waste of a slot below the max tier when hybrid builds can easily heal at these levels. something like celestial alacrity tempest will completely annihilate enemies with 20k+ dps in real fights while also still keeping allies fully topped up.

Disagreed, and I will explain why.

You are looking at this through a lense of reducing personal strain or failure in fractals instead of looking what the end goal is: becoming proficient. Sure, a player could take a self-sustaining build, even out the performance of groups in T2 and T3 (carrying weaker groups while being a strain on better ones) but the actual learning process is impeded (and learning the individual fractals is easy enough on T1) and reduce the toxicity of those groups. Meanwhile they have now also stifled their learning process and practiced on a completely incorrect build.

Failure is GOOD. Failing means a player can learn (if they so desire). It's far better to play a proper group build, fail and improve on that build instead of having to relearn a new build at T4. If a smooth run or carrying other is of significance, one can always play a defensive boon support build most of which will carry all content in T1-T3.

Noticing the difference between a well made group with proper boons and roles covered versus a group which does not have that luxury is just as much part of the learning process as it is to succeed. Depriving a player of this process will lead to issues down the road.

The remaining points you bring up I agree with so need to comment on them.

Edited September 9 by Cyninja.2954

[Aphandra.9672]

Thanks for all the responses! Just adding this tag to say I appreciate them. Still reading some, actually want to process, not just skim.
Everyone has great points to consider, so thank you.
My overarching understanding is a mix of YOLO and take your time, refer to guides where needed. (Collecting AR is a curb in itself.)

T1 experience might differ over expansion lifespan. Right now there are many newbies, usually at least 2 people with 0 next to their names. 20+ is usually a struggle, but people are nice about it, saying that it's their first, we can learn it, and so. Some resign, too.

The reasons for playing Celestial Core Elementalist are simple.
Initially, I found that scepter works well and staff doesn't. Eventually stuck with it, changing OH to dagger upon starting world bosses, also realized I kind of use all stats.
Also, survivability, flexibility and practice comes in real handy. Will of course experiment as I grow. Slowly. 😄
I also cope with my limited skills like this. Being down means 2-3 people not doing their stuff.
Point being, it might be a nice compromise choice for newbies and other weaklings.

[bq pd.2148]

1 hour ago, Aphandra.9672 said:

The reasons for playing Celestial Core Elementalist are simple.
Initially, I found that scepter works well and staff doesn't. Eventually stuck with it, changing OH to dagger upon starting world bosses, also realized I kind of use all stats.
Also, survivability, flexibility and practice comes in real handy. Will of course experiment as I grow. Slowly. 😄
I also cope with my limited skills like this. Being down means 2-3 people not doing their stuff.
Point being, it might be a nice compromise choice for newbies and other weaklings.

content is a lot easier with the more specialized builds for pure damage / damage + a boon / heal + a boon.
that is because you will kill stuff much faster, potentially skipping mechanics while still having better sustain if needed than if everyone were to go for a build that is trying to do it all.

it might be difficult at first to use a build that is dependent on other people in the group for either boons or actually utilizing what you provide, especially in t1 where there is a bigger chance that people will play unpredictable builds, yet it will pay off in the longer run if you practice one or multiple community defined roles by using builds appropriate for them.

Edited September 9 by bq pd.2148

[Phyb.6704]

On 9/8/2024 at 1:36 AM, zeyeti.8347 said:

Actually have to disagree , fractals are by far the most "learning" endgame content , by doing first t1 then going up the player will meet stuff he already know , but with some added mechanics , more hp , damage from enemies and especially the instabilities.

Here you adress someone who is just getting into it , his first goal is not obviously speedrunning but more about learning the mechanics of fractals to not be a burden for his team (by playing celestial tempest for example ^^, slapping some alac but that's all)

I seriously endorse starting from the bottom and going up when it feels like stuff become really ez , no need tro stay a whole week in t1... just couple of days then go up faster from t2-t3-t4 and maybe challenge mod.

For Ar management it's a stupid , but if you choose to put Ar on a character able to do all kind of stuff like necro or mesmer for example , able to be a good condi , power dps or healer (while ppl seems to always prefer the good old hfb) it's gonna make stuff easier , because putting the right amount of agony on 2-3 characters ain't cheap at all, so better choose an all rounded class you play easily with , able to multirole , making finding a group way easier (thus condi is not really required , it's mostly used on cm cause the bosses have way more hp than normal , only for cm 98,99 and 100 , the rest is bursted with power easily)

Just a warning , don't be puzzled if it seems t4 are easier than t3 , people who look to play into t3 fracs don't rely mostly on meta and will go often out without boon coverage and healer , t4 and cm people always look for full offensiv boon coverage (+some defensiv) and a healer , making the run way easier.

But what i agree with Phyb is that fractals with higher level people are speedruns , objectively doing so much dps that the boss skip half or 100% of his mechanics (like skorvald just able to do his monologue), but with a starting player this ain't gonna occur immediately. So take your time , i've seen so much player with +150 Agony res. rushing into t4 and be a burden for their teammates.

My point is beyond dps. T1 and T2 suffer to hard from the healing and power creep.

If you have high heals, clense and stability you can literally stand in 3 axes in t1 surf and just ignore everything. It is even more so with a scourge stacking barriers to give more buffer to not get 1 hit.

Dps hard and you can literally skip phases in senqua.

The point is that if you want to learn mechanics in a PUG you may not learn much in t1 with pugs just blowing through phases and healing through mechanics instead of doing them. If you want to learn in t1... join a guild and do a fractal training run. I would personally not expect to learn much in a t1 pug for those reasons.

You may learn some basic mechanics like snowblinds brining the firewood to the campfire at the start but you may find the final boss mechanics totally ignored. 

There is little to no dif from t1 to t2 and the same tends to happen in t2. 

T3 is called hell because that is where you actually learn. 

Not all mechanics are subjected to this treatment but enough that in my opinion what you learn in very minimal in t1 and t2 in most groups UNLESS IT IS A STRUCTERED TRAINING GROUP HOSTED THROUGH A GUILD OR SUCH.

 

On 9/8/2024 at 12:59 PM, Zohane.7208 said:

My take on this:

First of in general I recommend doing the tiers, since each is useful in learning the fractals.

• T1 is where you learn the basic workings of each fractal, nothing really hurts and you don't need any AR (Agony Resistance), except for 21-25.
• In T2 the mechanics start to hurt you a bit so you're gonna learn to avoid them or otherwise deal with them.
• In T3 you need to know what you're doing because otherwise you'll suffer badly. (Incidentally this is also where you'll see most of the ragequitting, blame-casting, angry people, so prepare for a nightmare unless you have a statc team or a good guild to fall back on.)
• When you finally reach T4 you can relax; by now you know the fractals reasonbly well and you'll fin that the teams are (usually) made up of competent people who also know the content and just wants to get it done smoothly. T4 is also mostly made up of nice people who are ready to forgive you if you admit to being new to T4.
• When you feel that T4 is getting reasonably easy you can safely go into the CMs, but that's also where you need to really know stuff so you should probably read up on the different CM mechanics before you start, and then you need to find a no-UFE group or ask to get in on a low-UFE group - but that's a matter for another discussion 🙂

As for progressing through each tier, I kind of recommend you go with the daily and recommended fractals, that gives you a decent variation as well as some better loot.

Regarding build, T4 teams are almost always made up of 1 boonheal, 1 boondps, and 3 pure dps. The 2 boons should match so you get both alacrity and quickness, as well as all other boons. This was the 3.5 DPS-ers can focus more on pure dps output. To that end, your idea of a cele core healer really won't cut it, there's a lot better build options for healers - be it quickheal or alacheal. Of course you can use a core healer but you will most likely struggle to find pug teams so that's probably more useful in a static group of like minded people.

I agree with this however T1 is more to get exposure. You get a taste to see if you want to invest time into getting the AR for higher teirs. It also lets you see the story content within the fractals. Since there is a story leading up to the observ and obviously story in senqua, sirens and tower. You get to play all of this with little to no gear req. Learning is pretty minimal though unless its a actual training group. I would more so call t1 the story experience.

 

As I said in my last post.... dont over complicate it. Pre t3 is pretty easy and t3 you will struggle since this is where you cant right out heal or dps through most mechanics and you have to learn or you die. There is a reason why t3 is called hell. It is where people learn and when people learn... there is trial and error. The fractals are really not complicated at all and if you join a nice guild you will easily find people willing to carry you through even t3 so you can learn. 

For learning I would 100% advise pure dps though. MAybe change when you know more mechanics so your death doesn't cost the group as much. Maybe boondps but I would probably stay away from healing until you know the mechanics. If a dps fails..... revive.... if a heal fails.... everyone may die trying to get that healer back up. 

Honestly just sounds like you been running into toxic people too much. 

[Smol.7985]

On 9/7/2024 at 10:23 AM, Aphandra.9672 said:

Hello everyone,

I tried lots of web search about how to get into fractals, but 99.9% is about getting some Ascended gear (done actually), explaining agony resistance (have some) and overcoming worries about what will happen (that took long, I became Ascended) and just LFG T1 dailies.

So, the community is nice, especially with the new expansion (kind of my thought behind starting now), lots of newbie groups, and T1 is all about it.
Thus the first step is done, I join groups and we usually succeed.

My aim is to actually learn and become more than a sturdy Core Celestial Support Elementalist tagging along.
Sure, it works well enough to tick the achievements I was after (say, S1E1 mastery) as well as complete some daily-weekly stuff for rewards at my level.

I like for example personal stories or jumping puzzles because I have to figure them out. Even if I get help, but I can go back and solve it, learn it.
Most fractals seem to have an exploring or puzzle element but under pressure, we simply don't get to learn. The rope-parachute place is a big example, but virtually every single one.

So, what is the best approach to do it? Learn fractal specific stuff?
What I can think about is starting a group specifically for learning, something like 1-5, over and over, and once I'm comfy, shift up.
Or, should I simply lay back and expect 2-3 months at T1, just do dailies, have fun, it will happen, no rush?
I don't particularly care about elevating to T2-T3, merely looking to feel that I'm contributing to those T1s well.

The other half is, how do you know whether in a group you're useful or a liability? Especially with this spec, where I'm (merrily!) flip-flopping fire, water and bits of air depending on what appears to be needed (usually, healing is welcome).

Thanks!

Play a lot and be the first to admit that you made a mistake , this type of attitude got me into playing with the best of the best in any MMO so far .

Let me quote a GW2 guy that i really respect " Just be honest " .

Last thing before i go , if you're struggling with certain fractal - on the day that this fractal is up join every group that is doing it . Do it to the point that you can log out and say " alright i think i'm not that bad at it anymore " . Make your mistakes , that's how we learn the fastest .

Edited September 10 by Smol.7985

[Linken.6345]

On 9/9/2024 at 8:52 PM, Aphandra.9672 said:

Thanks for all the responses! Just adding this tag to say I appreciate them. Still reading some, actually want to process, not just skim.
Everyone has great points to consider, so thank you.
My overarching understanding is a mix of YOLO and take your time, refer to guides where needed. (Collecting AR is a curb in itself.)

T1 experience might differ over expansion lifespan. Right now there are many newbies, usually at least 2 people with 0 next to their names. 20+ is usually a struggle, but people are nice about it, saying that it's their first, we can learn it, and so. Some resign, too.

The reasons for playing Celestial Core Elementalist are simple.
Initially, I found that scepter works well and staff doesn't. Eventually stuck with it, changing OH to dagger upon starting world bosses, also realized I kind of use all stats.
Also, survivability, flexibility and practice comes in real handy. Will of course experiment as I grow. Slowly. 😄
I also cope with my limited skills like this. Being down means 2-3 people not doing their stuff.
Point being, it might be a nice compromise choice for newbies and other weaklings.

OP I just want to say it is a breath of fresh air that you actualy come back and respond in the thread hope more people will begin to do so.

[Kunavi.2407]

@OP

I'm not a world 1st Fractal speed runner, I'm not pulling off bench DPS during actual combat, but if you want a group to ease you into Fractals without any pressure, let me know. Might have just the kind.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 9/7/2024 at 11:36 PM, Phyb.6704 said:

Celestial will not be wanted in group content since its way slower then just having a healer with boon uptime, 1 dps with boon uptime and 3 pure dps. Most wont give a kitten if a dps is healing. The healers does enough. It's a waste. Choose what you want to do in group content and build a ascended set to do it. 

Once again its not because you cant do the content with the whole group in celestial. It is that it is WAY slower. You do not have to be meta but a celestial Revenant doing 20k dps vs a full dps gear Revenant doing 40-50k dps is a big dif. You can go off meta but dropping to over half the dps is a bit much. Wanting to play a build that does 33k dps instead of 40k is w/e but don't be that person making the content take way longer then it needs to. It becomes more about consideration for others time.

----------------------------------

The days of having to really care about mechanics like when dungeons used to be hard.... are gone.  all pretty easy. You can literally solo silent surf cm boss in t4 with a celestial herald. It will just take 2 hours. The concern is speed most of the time.

 

What if the healer is using cele/seraph? still heals plenty and boosts the 5k healer dps to 25k. Only works with specific builds like scourge or fb.

[Nimris.3781]

On 9/11/2024 at 9:21 AM, Nephalem.8921 said:

What if the healer is using cele/seraph? still heals plenty and boosts the 5k healer dps to 25k. Only works with specific builds like scourge or fb.

Cele FB is not a thing anymore. it used to be solid before fb page rework as you could provide boons and heal while doing respectable dps but that changed. right now its better to either go full heal and support your party as much as possible (cc, cleanse, stabi etc) or just go no-heal if healing is redundant and do respectable dmg

more or less same goes for scourge, i really cant think of scenario where cele scourge would be go-to pick.

also i dont think any cele would do 25k dps as he also has to heal/cc etc. and if he could just sit there and dps, might as well go no-heal

(this goes for fractals, since tis is fractal topic, but i am aware there are niche scenarios for strike where cele scourge is used, but thats different story)

[Nephalem.8921]

18 hours ago, Nimris.3781 said:

Cele FB is not a thing anymore. it used to be solid before fb page rework as you could provide boons and heal while doing respectable dps but that changed. right now its better to either go full heal and support your party as much as possible (cc, cleanse, stabi etc) or just go no-heal if healing is redundant and do respectable dmg

more or less same goes for scourge, i really cant think of scenario where cele scourge would be go-to pick.

also i dont think any cele would do 25k dps as he also has to heal/cc etc. and if he could just sit there and dps, might as well go no-heal

(this goes for fractals, since tis is fractal topic, but i am aware there are niche scenarios for strike where cele scourge is used, but thats different story)

Cele/seraph fb is absolutely a thing since rework. Its the only decent fb fractal build.

Fractals don't require a lot of healing. Cele scourge can be played in 99 if you lack cleanses and want to make it comfy. a pure healer is total overkill.

[Nimris.3781]

20 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Cele/seraph fb is absolutely a thing since rework. Its the only decent fb fractal build.

after the rework that tomes share pages and you can no longer do proper healing and proper dps at the same time? sure...

moreover they sneaked in some bleeding as dps source for fb so you can no longer run balthazar runes for ez 100% condi duration.

times of cele fb doing ~60% dmg of regular dps are long gone, in current meta this spec doesnt really exist

20 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Fractals don't require a lot of healing

if your group doesnt require healing (like static), you go without healer.

in pugs you still want healer for smooth runs as you dont always get top notch players but in case you did, said players would phase bosses fast enough that your cele fb would simply put, be waste of spot.

20 hours ago, Nephalem.8921 said:

Cele scourge can be played in 99 if you lack cleanses and want to make it comfy. a pure healer is total overkill.

that is very niche case of kanaxai with afflicted and toxic trail and with that combo you can deal with in many other ways. plenty of specs can bring some cleanse for almost free on kanaxai

i would say bringing scourge is overkill, if you have to resolve to that, might as well bring full heal instead of creating dedicated template for once in a while scenario thats not even optimal solution...

[Chyro.1462]

On 9/9/2024 at 8:52 PM, Aphandra.9672 said:

Thanks for all the responses! Just adding this tag to say I appreciate them. Still reading some, actually want to process, not just skim.
Everyone has great points to consider, so thank you.
My overarching understanding is a mix of YOLO and take your time, refer to guides where needed. (Collecting AR is a curb in itself.)

T1 experience might differ over expansion lifespan. Right now there are many newbies, usually at least 2 people with 0 next to their names. 20+ is usually a struggle, but people are nice about it, saying that it's their first, we can learn it, and so. Some resign, too.

The reasons for playing Celestial Core Elementalist are simple.
Initially, I found that scepter works well and staff doesn't. Eventually stuck with it, changing OH to dagger upon starting world bosses, also realized I kind of use all stats.
Also, survivability, flexibility and practice comes in real handy. Will of course experiment as I grow. Slowly. 😄
I also cope with my limited skills like this. Being down means 2-3 people not doing their stuff.
Point being, it might be a nice compromise choice for newbies and other weaklings.

Since they're discussing Celestial gear  now and you play Elementalist.. I'd highly recommend you to get the Tempest elite spec unlocked. It's a support oriented elite spec that still has options to do great damage. With celestial gear and proper runes/sigils and traits, you can play it as a decent heal/support that can carry your party through fights and still do some damage as part of your boon rotation, or an okay-ish damage/support that still has access to some emergency group healing.

Tempest is the easiest of the 3 elite specs, and the best allrounder of them in my opinion. Weaver is purely a damage spec, and catalyst leans more towards offensive roles while being much harder to play (though next balance patch will make the boon version much easier than it is currently).

I've personally done  hundreds of T4 fractals on Tempest, most of the earlier runs in cele gear and still doing that sometimes (primarily as heal) and even a bunch of CMs (all except the new 100). It's a great class if you want to support your group and carry them to success. It also has some strong offensive builds, with the fresh air power build being one of the highest dps currently - also has effective condi builds. The builds can be adjusted to  work as boon dps, though they give up a big chunk of their damage for it. If you're enjoying celestial  ele and are already using water attunement sometimes to help your teammates, I'd really recommend to take a look at Tempest and what it plays like.

[Nephalem.8921]

On 9/14/2024 at 7:44 PM, Nimris.3781 said:

after the rework that tomes share pages and you can no longer do proper healing and proper dps at the same time? sure...

Regen and staff still exist. You can still spare a page once in a while.

On 9/14/2024 at 7:44 PM, Nimris.3781 said:

moreover they sneaked in some bleeding as dps source for fb so you can no longer run balthazar runes for ez 100% condi duration.

9.5% for the pure quick build. You can still run balth runes. Cele has the exact same expertise as viper so you could also just run the same build with cele instead of viper. Exact same condi duration.

On 9/14/2024 at 7:44 PM, Nimris.3781 said:

times of cele fb doing ~60% dmg of regular dps are long gone, in current meta this spec doesnt really exist

They are only gone because of busted 50k dps builds. Its still good.

On 9/14/2024 at 7:44 PM, Nimris.3781 said:

if your group doesnt require healing (like static), you go without healer.

In most cases you just want some. A pure healer can heal for 14k hps. that simply isn't needed in fractals. 4-5k are more than enough.

On 9/14/2024 at 7:44 PM, Nimris.3781 said:

in pugs you still want healer for smooth runs as you dont always get top notch players but in case you did, said players would phase bosses fast enough that your cele fb would simply put, be waste of spot.

Some people just pretend to be healer and play cele. Bad players don't notice this anyways and good players don't care. I might have done that before.

On 9/14/2024 at 7:44 PM, Nimris.3781 said:

that is very niche case of kanaxai with afflicted and toxic trail and with that combo you can deal with in many other ways. plenty of specs can bring some cleanse for almost free on kanaxai

i would say bringing scourge is overkill, if you have to resolve to that, might as well bring full heal instead of creating dedicated template for once in a while scenario thats not even optimal solution...

True if you play scourge stack you don't need that but what if not? Do you expect mech players to press more than aa? they wont bring healing turret. Slb rarely bring healing spring. Wdym scourge is overkill in 99? Scourge/harbinger are bis on that boss anyways. No heal can be kittenous on that boss but cele scourge turns that fractal and most into a joke. And lets be honest 99% of alac rens are so useless that a cele scourge will outdamage them.