Let's say, theoretically, I wanted to refund Janthir Wilds...

[Sobx.1758]

16 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

You are not honest about any of this so there's no point rehashing any of this with you, I answered my own question so I don't need to debate it with you as you clearly don't know the answer and keep asking for random sources for every single statement that is made while providing none of your own for any of your claims.

"I answered my own question about the statement I made myself and never even proven in the first place so you're the one not honest about it!"

That also -like your previous claims- doesn't make much sense to me. For now there's still no source or proof from you about any of your "legal" claims nor about gacha players complaining somehow influencing the existence/validity of the balance patches. At no point you even said what games or situations exactly you're talking about. You just made a bunch of broad claims and decided that's a valid basis for whatever you want to say. But, again, that's not really how honest discussion works.
One would wonder if what you're talking about aren't straight up p2w games and people don't expect balance patches because they literally expect to keep buying power in those games? Can't be sure since -again- you never clarify what exactly you're talking about outside of making those broad, vague claims.

And I'm not asking for "random sources", I keep asking about the "specific sources for your specific claims". Nothing "random" about it.

[Sobx.1758]

14 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

blah blah blah.  You've made 0 points so far on this thread, other than critiquing mine and nitpicking at it, and all my points were on point and insigtful and I actually addressed the topic, you on the other hand are doing what you usually do, trolling or misdirecting or trying to derail the thread to get it closed.

Why would I need or want this thread closed? I'd love to directly addres any of your arguments, but for now you don't have any real ones, you just have whatevr you make up along the way. I already explained that. I even explained that in the very post you just quoted. But here we are, you just spam with literal "blah blah blah" instead of linking -or even naming- anything that would prove your claims are remotely true.

14 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I mean what is your point that OP shouldnt get a refund, that he shouldnt be unahppy about the nerf, that nobody should be unhappy about the nerf? you have no point to make.

At no point I said anything like that. That's simply yet another example that you're just talking whatever random thing you can think of that's based on nothing and then attempt to use it as argument which people have to "refute". If anything, I literally explained to op that if he wants to refund a product, it's more constructive to open a support ticket about it since in the end that's where he can get the only realistic answer to his question and he'd have to do it anyways regardless of any answer from random users on this forum.
I don't know how you concluded ANYTHING you wrote above is somehow "my point" and I'd ask you to explain, but we all know how that ends. Gish gallop at its finest.

Stop making up nonsense.

Edited September 13 by Sobx.1758

[Sobx.1758]

Asking for sources of your claims isn't "nitpicking" or "attacking you". Gish gallop at its finest.

Edited September 13 by Sobx.1758

[Obtena.7952]

Imagine ... being a veteran player, creating a thread to pretend you want a refund because 'content removed' when really, you just don't like game balance. 

/golfclap

Edited September 13 by Obtena.7952

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

44 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Imagine ... being a veteran player, creating a thread to pretend you want a refund because 'content removed' when really, you just don't like game balance. 

/golfclap

at what point do you draw the line in regards to "content removed" and "game balance"?  Where does it cross the line?

[Obtena.7952]

6 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

at what point do you draw the line in regards to "content removed" and "game balance"?  Where does it cross the line?

Easy ... the point where no content was removed. 

Edited September 13 by Obtena.7952

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

Easy ... the point where no content was removed. 

so you're telling me that if they sold an expansion and said that spear does 10k times more damage then all other classes, and you bought the expansion in part because the spear was so grossly overpowered and then a month later they balanced the spear to do 10k times less damage then all other weapons, you would be ok with that purchase because the spear wasn't removed from the game and still "exists"?

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

so you're telling me that if they sold an expansion and said that spear does 10k times more damage then all other classes, and you bought the expansion in part because the spear was so grossly overpowered and then a month later they balanced the spear to do 10k times less damage then all other weapons, you would be ok with that purchase because the spear wasn't removed from the game and still "exists"?

I sure would be OK with that because the REASONABLE expectation is that there have been game balance changes in the game since day 1. If you expect anything else, you're just being obtuse. 

Edited September 13 by Obtena.7952

[QueenKeriti.5176]

No content was removed. Warrior spear is still available and still competitive, last I heard.

[Obtena.7952]

2 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

but you're not ok if they removed the spear entirely from the game? thats where you draw the line?

Whether I'm OK with that or not is irrelevant. I get you want to have a go at me with some weird argument ... no thanks.

The fact is that there was no content removed. 

Edited September 13 by Obtena.7952

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Whether I'm OK with that or not has nothing to do with the thread. The fact is that there was no content removed. 

so you're dodging the question ok.

I use extremes to make a point, i know that the spear was potentially balanced "within reason" but you should know that any form of a balance is still somewhat considered a bait and switch, especially for those who focus much more on weapons and builds rather then what other content an expansion can offer. Players such as a raiders/pvpers/wvwers, could view the nerfing in a much more negative light compared to the average player who utilizes more aspects of the expansion then just the spear, which is the OP argument, and I think he has a point in being upset about it.

Edited September 13 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Obtena.7952]

5 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

so you're dodging the question ok.

Yup I am. not even trying to hide it because again, whether I think it's OK or not for some hypothetical situation to exist is irrelevant to the thread.

5 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

I use extremes to make a point, i know that the spear was potentially balanced "within reason" but you should know that any form of a balance is still somewhat considered a bait and switch, especially for those who focus much more on weapons and builds such as a raiders/pvpers/wvwers, and could be viewed by the larger community as such, which is the OP argument, and I think he has a point in being upset about it.

OK. They can be upset all they like ... but content was NOT removed. The OP is just being knowingly dishonest about the fact they don't like the balance change by saying content is removed. Why? Probably because the OP knows he's got no case (or if they do, they don't know how to express it reasonably). He's on a fishing trip. He's going home empty handed. 

Edited September 13 by Obtena.7952

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

6 minutes ago, Obtena.7952 said:

Yup I am. not even trying to hide it because again, whether I think it's OK or not for some hypothetical situation to exist is irrelevant to the thread.

OK. They can be upset all they like ... but content was NOT removed. The OP is just being knowingly dishonest about the fact they don't like the balance change by saying content is removed. Why? Probably because the OP knows he's got no case (or doesn't know how to express it reasonably). 

yah its true the content was not removed but at what point does it become useless to the point where it may have well been?  I think thats the point of the thread. Obviously the OP threshold is much lower than yours.  I'm just curious at what point you consider nerfing of content to be so egregious that the item may as well not exist, and feels counter to what was initially presented at the launch of the expansion as a new feature, which then in turn could result in making you feel like the OP?

Edited September 13 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Obtena.7952]

7 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

yah its true the content was not removed but at what point does it become useless to the point where it may have well been?  I think thats the point of the thread. Obviously the OP threshold is much lower than yours.  

It's not relevant if the OP perceives the content as having changed so much that he feels justified in labeling it as removed and arguing any point about their personal perception is a waste of time, considering that label is obvious nonsense.

If they want people, including Anet, to take whatever complaints about the changes seriously, then they should be honest about how they go about expressing that, ESPECAILLY in these forums, ESPECIALLY based on Anet's history of making these kinds of changes. 

The worst part is that the OP is veteran of the game (or at least the forum) so ... clearly they completely disregarded how Anet makes balance change when they made the purchase. LIke ... we are 6 expansions in? We have seen dozens if not a hundred or so balance patches? The OP DIDN'T consider Anet would change how things might work in the expansion, even though Anet has done so EVERY expansion? OP is not being honest here. 

Edited September 13 by Obtena.7952

[Xanhawk.3806]

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

which then in turn could result in making you feel like the OP?

I wouldn't throw a tantrum on a forum if I were disappointed in a minor change, nor would I blatantly lie like OP did just for the sake of it.  I'd stop logging in and stop playing the game because its no longer fun.  I've done it with a number of other MMOs, DCUO, WoW, multiple private servers for RO, FlyFF, two Chinese cultivation themed MMOs that I forgot the names of.  

[Sigmoid.7082]

5 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

yah its true the content was not removed but at what point does it become useless to the point where it may have well been?  I think thats the point of the thread. Obviously the OP threshold is much lower than yours.

I think that is part of the point people are making against. OP been in the game and played this MMO long enough to not be this naive. Secondly nothing was removed...its just OPs threshold for the weapon "becoming useless" it it no longer being so over powered and dominant is a PvP setting ( to the point that the entire front page of the subforum was filled with complaints about it) which is an unreasonable stance to take due to MMOs completely reasonable, and historic, tendency to balance and change outlaying, over powered elements. Thirdly is the disingenuity of trying to make this seem like a complaint about content removal whereas it just feels like "I'm not OP anymore and that's unfair, give me my money back!". OP not wanting to use a weapon that is no longer OP doesn't constitute removal of content, they are just being sensational because they don't like the balance changes. 

[Ashen.2907]

2 hours ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

you should know that any form of a balance is still somewhat considered a bait and switch

Only by people who do not know what bait and switch means. For anyone with reading comprehension above the second grade level it is not so considered.

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

2 hours ago, Ashen.2907 said:

Only by people who do not know what bait and switch means. For anyone with reading comprehension above the second grade level it is not so considered.

so i guess if they balanced the gold in everyones account to1 gold its still just a balancing right?  I mean if you have one gold, they didnt remove the content its still there, its just not at an amount that you're happy with, but what can you do right? mmos balance things all the time, always do and always will.

you paid money for your gold? oh well its a balance, this is what mmos do.  You're unhappy, well post it on the forums see what reaction you get lol.

the fact that you didnt anticipate a balance like this, well maybe its just not the game for you.

Edited September 14 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Obtena.7952]

29 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

so i guess if they balanced the gold in your account to1 gold its still just a balancing right?  I mean if you have one gold, they didnt remove the content its still there, its just not at an amount that you're happy with, but what can you do right? mmos balance things all the time, always do and always will.

you paid money for your gold? oh well its a balance, this is what mmos do.  You're unhappy, well post it on the forums see what reaction you get lol.

the fact that you didnt anticipate a balance like this, well maybe its just not the game for you.

EVERYONE is affected by the specific game changes being discussed so comparing it to Anet nerfing your personal gold pile makes no sense. 

Edited September 14 by Obtena.7952

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

EVERYONE is affected by this game change so comparing it to Anet nerfing your personal gold pile makes no sense. 

i changed it to everyone

[Obtena.7952]

28 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

i changed it to everyone

In that case, if everyone received the same gold scaling, then sure, it's not a problem ... and no one said it would be. it's just you fishing to argue with people. 

Again, the issue here isn't that people can't complain about game balance. The issue is trying to pass off a complaint game balance, as a longtime veteran, as a 'removal' of content and asking if there's a refund, on the forum to cause a ruckus, knowing it's highly likely there isn't. It's bad acting and there is NO way anyone should support such a ruse, so I don't get why you insist on doing so. 

Edited September 14 by Obtena.7952

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

1 minute ago, Obtena.7952 said:

In that case, if everyone received the same gold scaling, then sure, it's not a problem ... and no one said it would be. it's just you fishing to argue with people. 

Again, the issue here isn't that people can't complain about game balance. The issue is trying to pass off a complaint, as a longtime veteran, about game balance, as a 'removal' of content and asking if there's a refund, knowing full well there isn't. It's bad acting and there is NO way anyone should support such a ruse, so I don't get why you insist on doing so. 

it wouldnt be a problem lmao  Yah just re-buy/earn all your gold, you're right its gonna be that ez. Certainly nothing wrong with that lol

Edited September 14 by Jumpin Lumpix.6108

[Obtena.7952]

1 minute ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

it wouldnt be a problem lmao  Yah just re-buy/earn all your gold, you're right its gonna be that ez.

That makes no sense. The value of your gold is relative to everything else in the game so if everything else is scaled, it's NOT a problem.

Again, your bad examples are not helping you argue whatever point is you are trying to make here. 

Edited September 14 by Obtena.7952

[Jumpin Lumpix.6108]

Just now, Obtena.7952 said:

That makes no sense. The value of your gold is relative to everything else in the game. Again, your bad examples are not helping you argue whatever point is you are trying to make here. 

no i didnt say re-adjust everything i said just reduce everyones gold to 1.  as a "balance" Certainly nothing wrong with that.  If you cant see the point then im sorry for you lol.  I feel like anet should "balance" in this way every month it would certainly increase revenue and the forum is in support of it ^ see exhibit A

[Obtena.7952]

4 minutes ago, Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

no i didnt say re-adjust everything i said just reduce everyones gold to 1.  

You must be fishing for fools to desperately make some point here because only a fool would argue with you about such a nonsensical scenario. How about just make your point ... or don't because it's clearly that not that good. 

The fact is that nothing was removed, so the complaint and the 'theoretical' request of the OP is nonsense. Not sure why you try to continue to support that ruse with arguments with people ... it's a non-winning position. 

Edited September 14 by Obtena.7952