Reasoning behind changes from oct 8th balance patch

[cryorion.9532]

Why removing evade from Harrier's Toss when you increased Full Counter cooldown in the same patch? You don't want core warrior or berserker to have evade on it? Why? Was Spellbreaker not nerfed enough with other changes already?

Why increasing Defiant Stance cast time when you also addressed Spellbreaker in the same patch? Is there anything skill-based about interrupting 0.75 sec cast time skill? The change will only make it more likely for this heal to be randomly interrupted, nothing else. People who are punished for attacking warrior when this heal's effect is up will still keep complaining about it.

Why nerfing spear 2 skill so much in PvE? Same with Spearmarshal. Why not more subtle approach instead? Is the aim to make rifle more competetive as ranged option? Then buff the rifle properly for kittens sake and in single balance patch, not in span of 5 years...

Balanced Stance: so not only you increase Full Counter cooldown, huge nerfs to staff and spear, increase Defiant Stance activation time, but you also increase Balanced Stance cooldown... what the kitten are you doing???

---

All the relevant changes balance team recently did are way too excessive. And this only confirms that balance team is incompetent. Sad thing is that there is no need for answer from them about this because actions speak louder than words. I just wish this balance team gets replaced as soon as possible.

Edited October 8 by cryorion.9532

[DanAlcedo.3281]

Since when do Warrior changes make sense?

[Marmado.7825]

Quite annoyed finally we had a ranged weapon that was decent and different, nope cant have that especially on a weapon that is only designed to deal dmg.... lets take away the dmg because warrior is just not allowed to deal dmg anet logic 

[rainhelm.3827]

I hope for anets sake they have an entirely separate team working on GW3's game design. I don't even mean it as an insult. Whether these chances are attributed to malice, incompetence, lack of manpower, whatever it is this kind of boneheaded balancing shouldn't ruin the next game.

[GamerToad.9248]

1 hour ago, rainhelm.3827 said:

I hope for anets sake they have an entirely separate team working on GW3's game design. I don't even mean it as an insult. Whether these chances are attributed to malice, incompetence, lack of manpower, whatever it is this kind of boneheaded balancing shouldn't ruin the next game.

At this point i take full offense on anything anet does when it's towards warrior.

[Hotride.2187]

FC CD bump to 14 sec has not addressed anything IMO. Its at 10.25 with versatile power... Which is longer than 8.75 but not by much.

So asking why the other changes were done, while thinking 1.5 sec extra CD achieved something... yeah.

The other changes were done to further nerf the SPB builds using spear, balanced and defiant stance. No idea what your expectation really is, until you make FC a skill that doesnt fix a lot of core problems (low CD stab, low CD anti nuke tool, low CD burst reset, extra CC), or you fix those problems in core... You get the current state.

A good ranged weapon gets especially obnoxious on SPB, since its biggest downside was the melee only limitation. Until you delete SPB (FC really), I have doubts war can get a good ranged option. I also highly doubt war will have anything even remotely useful if/after FC gets deleted. So...

[cryorion.9532]

30 minutes ago, Hotride.2187 said:

FC CD bump to 14 sec has not addressed anything IMO. Its at 10.25 with versatile power... Which is longer than 8.75 but not by much.

So asking why the other changes were done, while thinking 1.5 sec extra CD achieved something... yeah.

The other changes were done to further nerf the SPB builds using spear, balanced and defiant stance. No idea what your expectation really is, until you make FC a skill that doesnt fix a lot of core problems (low CD stab, low CD anti nuke tool, low CD burst reset, extra CC), or you fix those problems in core... You get the current state.

A good ranged weapon gets especially obnoxious on SPB, since its biggest downside was the melee only limitation. Until you delete SPB (FC really), I have doubts war can get a good ranged option. I also highly doubt war will have anything even remotely useful if/after FC gets deleted. So...

Ok, so why the kitten didnt they increase full counter cooldown more in PvP while leaving other things unchanged or not nerfed as hard? Why did they went full berserk on nerfing utility that affected builds that were not overperforming with it?

Edited October 8 by cryorion.9532

[Myror.7521]

No dodge on harriers toss was what they needed to do ..... before the damage nerfs. Now dmg and harriers toss are nerfed ^^ but as far as i noticed its just still good enough

[cryorion.9532]

2 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

No dodge on harriers toss was what they needed to do ..... before the damage nerfs. Now dmg and harriers toss are nerfed ^^ but as far as i noticed its just still good enough

No they didn't. They needed to address Spellbreaker after they released staff, but for some reason, they didn't bother.

[Myror.7521]

@cryorion.9532 idk staff is still good even without spellbreaker. Spear was very clearly the Main Problem with an evade on its burst skill. All what the meta build made OP was the Option to do dmg while not loosing too mutch self sustain at the same time. Now that this kitten is gone (and the full counter bug adressed in a kinda weird way) its good as it is.

[Zekent.3652]

25 minutes ago, Myror.7521 said:

@cryorion.9532 idk staff is still good even without spellbreaker. Spear was very clearly the Main Problem with an evade on its burst skill. All what the meta build made OP was the Option to do dmg while not loosing too mutch self sustain at the same time. Now that this kitten is gone (and the full counter bug adressed in a kinda weird way) its good as it is.

You need some class consciousness mate, you need to stop praising all nerfs that anet does on warrior, no matter what lmao.

You're always there trying to justify and agree with everyone who dislikes warrior.

[GamerToad.9248]

12 minutes ago, Zekent.3652 said:

You need some class consciousness mate, you need to stop praising all nerfs that anet does on warrior, no matter what lmao.

You're always there trying to justify and agree with everyone who dislikes warrior.

Yeah I've seen this guy around he loves to hate warrior.

[cryorion.9532]

9 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

@cryorion.9532 idk staff is still good even without spellbreaker. Spear was very clearly the Main Problem with an evade on its burst skill. All what the meta build made OP was the Option to do dmg while not loosing too mutch self sustain at the same time. Now that this kitten is gone (and the full counter bug adressed in a kinda weird way) its good as it is.

So what that staff is good even without spellbreaker? The argument here is that spellbreaker was the issue and not weapons (weapons needed only some tweaks). So instead of heavily nerfing weapons, they should have addressed the root of the issue. Their changes would only make sense if core/berserker/bladesworn builds with staff and/or spear were also overperforming. Were they overperforming? For example, in PvE, spear didnt deserve utility nerfs. Only small damage nerfs perhaps. Staff didn't deserve F1 range nerf on the damaging part in PvE and arguably even in WvW. And so on.

Edit: I should have added that yes, spear core warrior was also overperforming in WvW and PvP. And this was addressed with spear damage nerfs... except core didn't get nerfed in PvP where F1 can do insane damages on a build which damage was also buffed in the latest patch. Why?

Edited October 9 by cryorion.9532

[Lucentfir.7430]

1 hour ago, Zekent.3652 said:

You need some class consciousness mate, you need to stop praising all nerfs that anet does on warrior, no matter what lmao.

You're always there trying to justify and agree with everyone who dislikes warrior.

From what I've seen what he posts he doesn't hate warrior, he's often posting builds he's played that he finds success in. I think most of people on this sub forum got a taste of actual easy damage for once, and lost their direction sense of balance because they were having too much fun with somewhat overtuned on launch reliable big damage, and a functioning ranged weapon(It's still way better in design than rifle, more than half the skills can be cast behind you.)

[Widebody.5071]

Dang every time I put together a good build it gets some kind of nerf or messed with before it was in wvw now it's hitting pve. Take a step forward and get knocked back three. Why in the world is anyone worrying about warrior damage and play in pve? It just don't make sense... But I guess stupid is what stupid does.

[cryorion.9532]

1 hour ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

From what I've seen what he posts he doesn't hate warrior, he's often posting builds he's played that he finds success in. I think most of people on this sub forum got a taste of actual easy damage for once, and lost their direction sense of balance because they were having too much fun with somewhat overtuned on launch reliable big damage, and a functioning ranged weapon(It's still way better in design than rifle, more than half the skills can be cast behind you.)

Rifle can also do easy damage. Spellbreaker can't use rifle in a meaningful way, I think you can guess why. If it could, rifle would be nerfed just like spear. Does this mean that rifle was problematic in this case?

The issue isn't really that Anet nerfed the spear. The issue how they did it together with other nerfs. The issue is that they not only nerfed damage, but also utility, on top of other nerfs. I 100% doubt warrior was that big of an outlier that it deserved so many (and in some cases harsh) nerfs that affect the warrior in all gamemodes. For example Defiant Stance. What did increasing activation time from 1/3 to 3/4 address and solve? Spellbreaker in PvP? Is the heal too strong everywhere in game on all builds? For so many years, it hasn't been problematic and now it received 2 nerfs within a month. This is what happens when incompetent people are where they shouldn't be.

Edited October 9 by cryorion.9532

[Lucentfir.7430]

3 minutes ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Rifle can also do easy damage. Spellbreaker can't use rifle in a meaningful way, I think you can guess why. If it could, rifle would be nerfed just like spear. Does this mean that rifle was problematic in this case?

The issue isn't really that Anet nerfed the spear. The issue how they did it together with other nerfs. The issue is that they not only nerfed damage, but also utility, on top of other nerfs. I 100% doubt warrior was that big of an outlier that it deserved so many (and in some cases harsh) nerfs that affect the warrior in all gamemodes. For example Defiant Stance. What did increasing activation time from 1/3 to 3/4 address and solve? Spellbreaker in PvP? Is the heal too strong everywhere in game on all builds? For so many years, it hasn't been problematic and now it received 2 nerfs within a month. This is what happens when incompetent people are where they shouldn't be.

People don't use rifle on Spb because Kill Shot is horridly outdated on par with Eviscerate, and rifle's kit is outdated in usage and design, which is why even some Spb would rather would rather use LB over it because they'll get the benefits of proccing burst skill efficiently and related traits, and blind  or are we going to start saying SPB LB is broken now?  The only builds that use Rifle are Gunflame Zerker(Part of the reason why Zerker got nerfed in WvW  ), and some flavor of Bladesworn(Losing the burst skill doesn't really lose anything worthwhile), and if you wanna be extra meme-y you play Core rifle with GS(I've played this and spike people in skirmishes because the extended wind up throws off people's dodge timing and over 800+ Ferocity increase with guaranteed crit). News flash none of these builds are actually all that good and are often for fun builds outside of large groups. People/classes with actual strong builds will farm any flavor of Rifle warrior.

For the change of cast time in defiant stance Defiant stance, I feel it's one of those things the reason why they did that was to  open up more counterplay to interrupt it, it is after all one of those heals built for the big group clashes in WvW, which was also slept on for a long time in small scale because it requires your foe to be dumb enough to hit into you while it's up. Its value increase in metas/enviornments where there's tons of instant and fast bursts you can predict, and works against condition bombs granted their durations aren't exceedingly long. Though with the addition of staff, traits and relics that give you extra ability to re-sustain it punches out the drawbacks for running it over mending because people aren't no longer punished for mistiming Defiant stance(4s is also a long time FYI, 3s is manageable in Spvp) or people not hitting you. 

[Myror.7521]

@GamerToad.9248 wait why should i hate the only class i have 99% of my Games on xP

@Zekent.3652 well actually i was even the person who just said from beginn what exactly was wrong and made staff/spear broken ^^. Look i even said that spears evade is the thing making it broke not its dmg. So yes i am happy that they finally adressed this issue. Of course im not Happy that they nerfed it after those too hard dmg nerfs also im not happy that they nerfed balanced Stance for i think No reason ^^

Edited October 9 by Myror.7521

[cryorion.9532]

5 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

Spb would rather would rather use LB over it because they'll get the benefits of proccing burst skill efficiently and related traits, and blind  or are we going to start saying SPB LB is broken now? 

If longbow allowed spellbreakers to be meta sidenoder pick, then there is no reason to think anet wouldn't nerf longbow. The point being made here is not that longbow would be op but that because spellbreaker uses longbow in their oppresive build, anet would nerf both spellbreaker and longbow in a way that affects all gamemodes. Which they did with spear and staff.

5 hours ago, Lucentfir.7430 said:

For the change of cast time in defiant stance Defiant stance, I feel it's one of those things the reason why they did that was to  open up more counterplay to interrupt it, it is after all one of those heals built for the big group clashes in WvW, which was also slept on for a long time in small scale because it requires your foe to be dumb enough to hit into you while it's up.

The only reason this was nerfed is because pvp spellbreaker was using it. Has the skill, after so many years, all of sudden became too strong on all warrior builds so that it needed a nerf in all gamemodes? No. Defiant Stance was not problematic and didn't deserve cast time nerf. The heal duration buff nerf in PvP is understandable and makes sense.

Why didnt anet address just spellbreaker itself first and observe how things would change from that point? All they had to do was to nerf full counter in pvp by increasing cooldown by like 10 seconds and wait how things will turn out. Instead we got inadequate and excessive nerfs also on skills that didnt deserve it.

Edited October 9 by cryorion.9532

[WingSwipe.3084]

12 hours ago, Myror.7521 said:

No dodge on harriers toss was what they needed to do ..... before the damage nerfs. Now dmg and harriers toss are nerfed ^^ but as far as i noticed its just still good enough

Alrighty then, no evade on the skill.

Can we be allowed to do damage with it now, do we need to nerf more damage out of spear?

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

51 minutes ago, WingSwipe.3084 said:

Alrighty then, no evade on the skill.

Can we be allowed to do damage with it now, do we need to nerf more damage out of spear?

Harrier's Toss never got it's damage reduced except for in WvW. Given the buff to Burst Precision, you'll see people posting 20k Harrier's Toss logs in PvP from some memebro warrior and ask for more nerfs.

[Azure The Heartless.3261]

13 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

Ok, so why the kitten didnt they increase full counter cooldown more in PvP while leaving other things unchanged or not nerfed as hard? Why did they went full berserk on nerfing utility that affected builds that were not overperforming with it?

Very good question.  

[Trippler.3489]

For me, that borders on fraud.

 Many of us have threatened not to buy the expansion if the spear is bad.

 The spear was designed really well so that we would all buy the expansion and now it is unplayable.

[Lan Deathrider.5910]

@Azure The Heartless.3261, new profile avatar, eh? Getting into the spirit of the season, or entering your villain arc?

[Lucentfir.7430]

4 hours ago, cryorion.9532 said:

If longbow allowed spellbreakers to be meta sidenoder pick, then there is no reason to think anet wouldn't nerf longbow. The point being made here is not that longbow would be op but that because spellbreaker uses longbow in their oppresive build, anet would nerf both spellbreaker and longbow in a way that affects all gamemodes. Which they did with spear and staff.

The only reason this was nerfed is because pvp spellbreaker was using it. Has the skill, after so many years, all of sudden became too strong on all warrior builds so that it needed a nerf in all gamemodes? No. Defiant Stance was not problematic and didn't deserve cast time nerf. The heal duration buff nerf in PvP is understandable and makes sense.

Why didnt anet address just spellbreaker itself first and observe how things would change from that point? All they had to do was to nerf full counter in pvp by increasing cooldown by like 10 seconds and wait how things will turn out. Instead we got inadequate and excessive nerfs also on skills that didnt deserve it.

The thing here you're trying to argue is a "What if" situation. Because LB does exist as a usable range option for spb(although not really that good), it doesnt have enough synergy(pretty sure if they unsplit the daze fro PvE everyone would whine and see slightly more).

But you know what it was BiS for? Condi zerker, and funny enough when condi zerker was meta people were complaining just as hard about it being broken and it being able to proc adrenal health without hitting anyone( it's considered proc'd for creating fire fields) and trying to get Adrenal health nerfed, power zerker was also hit by the feel no pain(condi zerker's doing) cut down or are we going to turn a blind eye and blame spb for that too?  Was Spb also responsible for fatal frenzy getting nerfed is wvw turning having its power stat getting cut in half? How about Primal Longbow burst Scorched Earth getting repeatedly nerfed? 

 

Spear was overturned at launch(just like a majority of the other spears) and adjustments were going to be made In the obvious direction. I'm not going to sit here and lie to myself that it was perfectly balanced and fine as is and make comparisons like 100b(You know the skill we've been discussing and begging to fix for years?) does more damage than pre-nerfed Spearmarshal's Support. Or the front about not being busted on the 2 other specs that effectively don't have a burst skill on spear? Or a baseline unblockable launch and evade being balanced. Give me a break man.

 

 

Edited October 9 by Lucentfir.7430