Nerf scourge, really.

[Arheundel.6451]

@Saiyan.1704 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Saiyan.1704 said:Prevent class stacking.... boom, fixed.

That's kind of almost impossible.

In what way? Anet can change matchmaking anyway they see fit, it's literally in their tech to do so.

Because people reroll to make sure they have 2 scourges and a firebrand in every match? If anet would block profession swapping entirely then yes, changing the matchmaking would work

[Arheundel.6451]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Ever thought of using a Ranger OP? Any and every scourge will hate you from now until eternity. Get off the weaver, and get on a Ranger, and you'll never have an issue again... Rock, Paper, Scissors..

Then again, my ranger likely can't counter your Weaver, so definitely, your Weaver needs to be nerfed.. correct?

No chance...yes you can play soulbeast burst and bring a single scourge down after a certain time but...-Chances are if he's alone, his barriers will last long enough to receive help-During teamfights which likely contain another scourge plus a healer..it becomes impossible to burst down a single scourge because of the effective barrier/heal spam

About ranger not countering weaver..yes druid being a bunker won't be countering another bunker and neither has enough pressure to deal with a s/f weaver; on other hand a well played soulbeast is basically a death sentence for any weaver build because of your bypassing life syphon/poison combo and unblockable burst to get through arcane shields/projectile reflect

[jihm.2315]

@GoZero.9708 said:Nerfing boon corruption itself might be the key to nerfing Scourge.

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:I think the balance here is less about nerfing scourge, but more about buffing counters for scourge so that they can be more useful vs other classes (and honestly, they have already, people just didn't pick up on it because of what i said earlier).What you're describing is power creep. The more you buff "counters" the more than the classes that aren't buffed are left behind until they get a bone and get buffed up too. ANet can't buff all specs to be equally viable (hell they can barely make half the new specs worth running in more than one game mode) so until we reach the unobtainable perfect standard of balance, the nerfhammer will have its time and place.

exactly this .im tiered of this arena net logic of keeping buffing damage to counter damage

[Flauvious.6195]

@Morwath.9817 said:

@Aedaryl.3195 said:Hello anet, if you did't noticed it, scourge is brainless, noob friendly and OP.

For the sake of balance, can at least REMOVE WEAKNESS FROM CONDITION NECRO POOL. Missing half your attack at the second the scourge touch you is not fair, especially when there is 10 condition on you, making impossible to purge weakness.

Ooo, but main source of Weakness is Might corruption.Sooo, whenever you get close to Scrooge McDuck, your Might (even a single stack) turns into 10 seconds of Weakness.

10 seconds is crazy, considering you're also stripping someone of the benefits of those boons. Should be like 3 seconds max

[Burnfall.9573]

As i stated in a previous thread; red aoe circles everywhere. I'm all for increasing Necromancer skills cool-downs; Elementalist included.

(Power Creep and Spamming skills in general must be reduced and eventually eliminated if Anet want to takes steps in promoting Gw2 as a healthy game).

[Abazigal.3679]

@"DeadlySynz.3471" said:Ever thought of using a Ranger OP? Any and every scourge will hate you from now until eternity. Get off the weaver, and get on a Ranger, and you'll never have an issue again... Rock, Paper, Scissors..

Then again, my ranger likely can't counter your Weaver, so definitely, your Weaver needs to be nerfed.. correct?

That's partially right. I'm mainly playing ranger, and if it is indeed efficient vs scourges at low level, this is much more complicated above ranks. What will happen :

• Scourge will try to " melee " me, spamming aoe circles everywhere, abandonning the point. The 1v1 winrate on this situation is much lower and this is much tougher to handle than when the scourge would sit on ranged distance.
• Scourge will try to avoid me if i'm beating him. Then this leads to several situations : someone else than me having to deal with the scourge, or 2v2 situations where it's about my teammate not going down, since i cannot revive up through all condi aoes

Even if we consider the cases where i easily beat the scourge, most of the time he will have time to get back the point before i kill him, since i cannot stand on it. I don't see anything negative for the scourge in all these situations actually...

[Jacobin.8509]

I doubt scourge will ever not be OP because its entire design is built around controlling small points. They likely did not think of spvp at all when designing the class.

[Chapell.1346]

The heck with all the Scourge be like whining that Range counter them, if Range is a big problem for you as Scourge then you no Necromancer. This game is becoming more on pay to win i tell you.

[ElderNewt.5840]

Right because other OP classes are still fine to play..

[Faffin.6741]

@Saiyan.1704 said:Prevent class stacking.... boom, fixed.

I've haven't had a match with 2 necros on my team that didn't have 2 necros on the other team. Perhaps they have already done that for some classes

[ReaverKane.7598]

@GoZero.9708 said:Nerfing boon corruption itself might be the key to nerfing Scourge.

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:I think the balance here is less about nerfing scourge, but more about buffing counters for scourge so that they can be more useful vs other classes (and honestly, they have already, people just didn't pick up on it because of what i said earlier).What you're describing is power creep. The more you buff "counters" the more than the classes that aren't buffed are left behind until they get a bone and get buffed up too. ANet can't buff all specs to be equally viable (hell they can barely make half the new specs worth running in more than one game mode) so until we reach the unobtainable perfect standard of balance, the nerfhammer will have its time and place.

The perfect balance is the perfect imbalance. The most balanced pvp i've played recently is in League of Legends (even though there's a few outdated champs in the mix, for the most part it's pretty darn good), and they obtain this by having really OP champs that have great counters, this paired with constantly updated meta and rebalances, keeps the game fresh and interesting and, unlike GW2, if you take a break for a couple months you'll return to a almost entirely different game.Also you don't need power creep to balance pvp through buffing counters. You don't have to make those counters win vs everything else. You just need to buff them so that they don't always lose vs everything else except Scourge (which is already nearly the case).It's only a power creep if it's allowed to be.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Ever thought of using a Ranger OP? Any and every scourge will hate you from now until eternity. Get off the weaver, and get on a Ranger, and you'll never have an issue again... Rock, Paper, Scissors..

Then again, my ranger likely can't counter your Weaver, so definitely, your Weaver needs to be nerfed.. correct?

No chance...yes you can play soulbeast burst and bring a single scourge down after a certain time but...-Chances are if he's alone, his barriers will last long enough to receive help-During teamfights which likely contain another scourge plus a healer..it becomes impossible to burst down a single scourge because of the effective barrier/heal spam

About ranger not countering weaver..yes druid being a bunker won't be countering another bunker and neither has enough pressure to deal with a s/f weaver; on other hand a well played soulbeast is basically a death sentence for any weaver build because of your bypassing life syphon/poison combo and unblockable burst to get through arcane shields/projectile reflect

Well, you're talking about chances, and i'm TELLING you that that isn't the case. Barrier isn't that powerful. Heck, it's way less powerful than any shroud. And Rangers can effectively burst a Scourge through ranged combat, especially because scourge lacks sources of stability. And Longbow ranger has plenty cc to keep scourge away and out of the way.

Also you mention soulbeast. I hope you're not talking about condi builds. Because if you are, please don't discuss pvp balance anymore, because clearly you don't understand tactics and counters.

There's a ton of ways to counter scourge, and i can tell you this is so, because i play scourge, and i've seen people countering me. Problem is, most of you people will just copy meta builds, which sometimes don't really work.I mean right now, a lot of people consider scourge the biggest threat. Yet 90% of the time, 80% of people are using close range or melee builds, with little or no ranged options.So you have an enemy that you can't beat, and instead of adapting your play to counter that enemy, you complain about it in the forums?> @Jacobin.8509 said:

I doubt scourge will ever not be OP because its entire design is built around controlling small points. They likely did not think of spvp at all when designing the class.

They definetly did consider pvp when building it. Scourge and Spellbreaker were built FOR pvp. You don't get many boons to corrupt/strip in PvE.

@Chapell.1346 said:The heck with all the Scourge be like whining that Range counter them, if Range is a big problem for you as Scourge then you no Necromancer. This game is becoming more on pay to win i tell you.

Longbow Ranger, if they play well will always outrange you. So with equally skilled players, and especially because scourge won't have a lot of stability, and rangers have a good deal of cc, the ranger will win. If he doesn't kill you he'll probably force you to leave the point. Of course that all depends on what the ranger is doing. If he's focused on denying you the point without going for the cap himself, he'll win. If he tries to stay on the point you'll win, because that's what scourge was built for. Maintaining zone control.

[Chapell.1346]

Well if by chance you accidentally felt the process of losing onto Range assuming every Projectile connects, as you play Scourge which is by far the most forgiving design interms of game play to spoon feed old and new player alike, given the tools you can use, then you have a long way to go, perhaps re evaluate your gameplay and try again or maybe you are too slow to react on where you might be needed?

[Jitsuryoku.9038]

I think they should nerf the boon corruption rate above all else. I mean it's nice to be able to burn all boons down on a target as a necro, but from the receiving side, it's 9 boons ==> 12 conditions in 1-2 seconds.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for ranged options as counterplay (which work, by the way), but those same ranged options (or at least the ones that have enough burst damage to kill a necro before necro kills you with autoattacks) are useless against OTHER meta builds.

[Arheundel.6451]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@GoZero.9708 said:Nerfing boon corruption itself might be the key to nerfing Scourge.

@ReaverKane.7598 said:I think the balance here is less about nerfing scourge, but more about buffing counters for scourge so that they can be more useful vs other classes (and honestly, they have already, people just didn't pick up on it because of what i said earlier).What you're describing is power creep. The more you buff "counters" the more than the classes that aren't buffed are left behind until they get a bone and get buffed up too. ANet can't buff all specs to be equally viable (hell they can barely make half the new specs worth running in more than one game mode) so until we reach the unobtainable perfect standard of balance, the nerfhammer will have its time and place.

The perfect balance is the perfect imbalance. The most balanced pvp i've played recently is in League of Legends (even though there's a few outdated champs in the mix, for the most part it's pretty darn good), and they obtain this by having really OP champs that have great counters, this paired with constantly updated meta and rebalances, keeps the game fresh and interesting and, unlike GW2, if you take a break for a couple months you'll return to a almost entirely different game.Also you don't need power creep to balance pvp through buffing counters. You don't have to make those counters win vs everything else. You just need to buff them so that they don't always lose vs everything else except Scourge (which is already nearly the case).It's only a power creep if it's allowed to be.

@Arheundel.6451 said:

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:Ever thought of using a Ranger OP? Any and every scourge will hate you from now until eternity. Get off the weaver, and get on a Ranger, and you'll never have an issue again... Rock, Paper, Scissors..

Then again, my ranger likely can't counter your Weaver, so definitely, your Weaver needs to be nerfed.. correct?

No chance...yes you can play soulbeast burst and bring a single scourge down after a certain time but...-Chances are if he's alone, his barriers will last long enough to receive help-During teamfights which likely contain another scourge plus a healer..it becomes impossible to burst down a single scourge because of the effective barrier/heal spam

About ranger not countering weaver..yes druid being a bunker won't be countering another bunker and neither has enough pressure to deal with a s/f weaver; on other hand a well played soulbeast is basically a death sentence for any weaver build because of your bypassing life syphon/poison combo and unblockable burst to get through arcane shields/projectile reflect

Well, you're talking about chances, and i'm TELLING you that that isn't the case. Barrier isn't that powerful. Heck, it's way less powerful than any shroud. And Rangers can effectively burst a Scourge through ranged combat, especially because scourge lacks sources of stability. And Longbow ranger has plenty cc to keep scourge away and out of the way.

Also you mention soulbeast. I hope you're not talking about condi builds. Because if you are, please don't discuss pvp balance anymore, because clearly you don't understand tactics and counters.

There's a ton of ways to counter scourge, and i can tell you this is so, because i play scourge, and i've seen people countering me. Problem is, most of you people will just copy meta builds, which sometimes don't really work.I mean right now, a lot of people consider scourge the biggest threat. Yet 90% of the time, 80% of people are using close range or melee builds, with little or no ranged options.So you have an enemy that you can't beat, and instead of adapting your play to counter that enemy, you complain about it in the forums?> @Jacobin.8509 said:

I doubt scourge will ever not be OP because its entire design is built around controlling small points. They likely did not think of spvp at all when designing the class.

They definetly did consider pvp when building it. Scourge and Spellbreaker were built FOR pvp. You don't get many boons to corrupt/strip in PvE.

@Chapell.1346 said:The heck with all the Scourge be like whining that Range counter them, if Range is a big problem for you as Scourge then you no Necromancer. This game is becoming more on pay to win i tell you.

Longbow Ranger, if they play well will always outrange you. So with equally skilled players, and especially because scourge won't have a lot of stability, and rangers have a good deal of cc, the ranger will win. If he doesn't kill you he'll probably force you to leave the point. Of course that all depends on what the ranger is doing. If he's focused on denying you the point without going for the cap himself, he'll win. If he tries to stay on the point you'll win, because that's what scourge was built for. Maintaining zone control.

Do please take the time to read comments : barrier was mentioned because it saves necro from being insta bursted 100 to 0 in 1/2s and that gives the time to receive help , especially at high levels where people are more familiar with rotations and thieves are not total scrubs, nobody said anything about barrier being the ultimate defense ...learn to read

Further point : I have mentioned typical pvp situation with 2 scourges + support...barrier + heal spam

They definitely did not consider PvP when building any of the HoT or PoF specs ........I'd really like to read about the pvp background of all the people on the forum, to see from where their expertise comes from

[Emmibolt.3928]

@jihm.2315 said:seems intentionally op but i dont know why they did this

All the devs play necro.

[Blackjack.5621]

Put portal on scourge, leave. If scourge slowly rotates -> freecap after you have killed 1 of his teammates, if scourge stays kill it quickly 1v1 cause no support.

[ketzer.3158]

League of Legends is not a pvp game. That's as stupid as saying a bicycle is a car.

[Arheundel.6451]

At the very least I had enough experience prior to GW2 to know what "balanced gameplay" means...I don't live off delusions

[witcher.3197]

@shagwell.1349 said:League of Legends is not a pvp game. That's as stupid as saying a bicycle is a car.

What did i just read.. it's one of the most successful PvP games atm. Just because it's not pure deathmatch it's still PvP.

[Jitsuryoku.9038]

Projectile shade abilities, maybe?

I just realized that if Scourge used projectiles for shade abilities (offensive effects anyways) ,like epidemic does, it WOULD be counter-able (or at least can be guarded from for a few seconds by at least half of current meta builds) and it would be risky to do instant-bursts against a whole team.

[ketzer.3158]

@witcher.3197 said:

@"shagwell.1349" said:League of Legends is not a pvp game. That's as stupid as saying a bicycle is a car.

What did i just read.. it's one of the most successful PvP games atm. Just because it's not pure deathmatch it's still PvP.

It's not because you say so. LoL always was a Moba, that's as much a pvp game as Diablo 3. If it was about pvp there wouldn't be creeps running around shooting on structures you need to win. It's basically a RTS with automatic building of npc units. Based on that logic every game where you fight another human player is a pvp game, like everything that drives is a vehicle. But that's not accurate, because the pvp part of a moba is as big as the "pve" part.

[witcher.3197]

@shagwell.1349 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:League of Legends is not a pvp game. That's as stupid as saying a bicycle is a car.

What did i just read.. it's one of the most successful PvP games atm. Just because it's not pure deathmatch it's still PvP.

It's not because you say so. LoL always was a Moba, that's as much a pvp game as Diablo 3. If it was about pvp there wouldn't be creeps running around shooting on structures you need to win. It's basically a RTS with automatic building of npc units. Based on that logic every game where you fight another human player is a pvp game, like everything that drives is a vehicle. But that's not accurate, because the pvp part of a moba is as big as the "pve" part.

Why am I even trying to argue with a GW2 player.. Jesus.

But I'll try one last time. A game where 2 teams of players are set against each other and engage in combat against each other is PvP.

[ketzer.3158]

Like Civilization and Rocket League.

[Chung.3420]

@witcher.3197 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:

@witcher.3197 said:

@shagwell.1349 said:League of Legends is not a pvp game. That's as stupid as saying a bicycle is a car.

What did i just read.. it's one of the most successful PvP games atm. Just because it's not pure deathmatch it's still PvP.

It's not because you say so. LoL always was a Moba, that's as much a pvp game as Diablo 3. If it was about pvp there wouldn't be creeps running around shooting on structures you need to win. It's basically a RTS with automatic building of npc units. Based on that logic every game where you fight another human player is a pvp game, like everything that drives is a vehicle. But that's not accurate, because the pvp part of a moba is as big as the "pve" part.

Why am I even trying to argue with a GW2 player.. Jesus.

But I'll try one last time. A game where 2 teams of players are set against each other and engage in combat against each other is PvP.

Argee,I think the difference is just Gw2 Is a MMORPG has PVPOthers like Warcraft or StarCraft are RTS have PVPAnd COD or Battlefield are FPS with PVP

[Velimere.7685]

@jihm.2315 said:seems intentionally op but i dont know why they did this

It's like being able to set down an area for stronger Mesmer shatter effects that's also larger, burns on placement, and has stronger effects and lower cooldowns while also performing said effects with lower cooldowns around the Scourge too. There's nothing OP about that! ;)