Is Agony Necessary?

[Fluffball.8307]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:You don't know kitten you're talking about. So maybe don't.Don't wanna play Fractals don't. You're the only one missing out. No one else cares.

The system works perfectly, and the fact that you don't play fractals just confirms that!

I feel the same way about you. See how helpful that is? You're just being rude and obnoxious. And ironically I can almost guarantee I have played more fractals than you, and know more about what I'm talking about than you do.

Lol, i'm the obnoxious? You've been wrong and defensive from your first post and still act like you're the one who's right and everyone else who's "defensive".

It doesn't cost 600 gold to get a new fractal ready character. It costs ~600 gold if you've never played fractals and never saved up any materials, or anything. Basically it costs 600 gold if you bought the game, used the booster and wanted to get a T4 fractal ready character.But that's exactly why there's Agony and the need for AR, so that guys like that don't just go on to the max level of difficulty, get curb-stomped, get kicked out of the party, and become embittered forum trolls.

Pretty sure you haven't played as many fractals in your life than i've played last month.

Couldn't help but notice you can't list any reasons and instead resort to insults. You make a great point.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:You don't know kitten you're talking about. So maybe don't.Don't wanna play Fractals don't. You're the only one missing out. No one else cares.

The system works perfectly, and the fact that you don't play fractals just confirms that!

I feel the same way about you. See how helpful that is? You're just being rude and obnoxious. And ironically I can almost guarantee I have played more fractals than you, and know more about what I'm talking about than you do.

Lol, i'm the obnoxious? You've been wrong and defensive from your first post and still act like you're the one who's right and everyone else who's "defensive".

It doesn't cost 600 gold to get a new fractal ready character. It costs ~600 gold if you've never played fractals and never saved up any materials, or anything. Basically it costs 600 gold if you bought the game, used the booster and wanted to get a T4 fractal ready character.But that's exactly why there's Agony and the need for AR, so that guys like that don't just go on to the max level of difficulty, get curb-stomped, get kicked out of the party, and become embittered forum trolls.

Pretty sure you haven't played as many fractals in your life than i've played last month.

Couldn't help but notice you can't list any reasons and instead resort to insults. You make a great point.

?I insulted who?And hard numbers aren't factual enough for you? Just because you say it doesn't make it so!

[Astralporing.1957]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:The system works perfectly, and the fact that you don't play fractals just confirms that!Ah, so the reason behind the system is to make people not play fractals. And you're saying it's doing that function well.Now, that's a really weird design concept.

[Hyper Cutter.9376]

@xDudisx.5914 said:Agony should be account bound.Yeah, bare minimum. Do away with that reward level garbage while we're at it.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"ReaverKane.7598" said:

The system works perfectly, and the fact that you don't play fractals just confirms that!

Ah, so the reason behind the system is to make people

not

play fractals. And you're saying it's doing that function well.Now, that's a really weird design concept.

Fractals, unlike much of the other content has Tiers.

On One hand, Anyone can walk into T1 (and I mean literally anyone, as it auto levels you to 80), and play them, enjoy them, and have fun. In that design, Fractals are quite literally, the most accessible content in the game.

On the flip side of that, they have T4, which requires a serious investment in gear to get the AR to even enter the content, which makes it the most exclusive content in the game, for those that want to do it, even more then Raids.

AR removes a large part of the drama around fractal groups.

It gives those players who want their top tier, private club of only people invested into this content, to have that, at T4, and AR makes it so that only people who have vested into this content will even put in the effort to be geared for it, while those who want a more open PUG of "come as you are", can find that at T1.

Now, between you and I, if I had to choose between the DPS meters, KP, LI's Titles, Build Checks and all the other things that Raids have to suffer with, or a simple direct and elegant system as AR, I'm going to take AR.

I hope you see my side of things on this.

[Michael.9403]

It's just an equipment grind. What's unusual about it is that ANET generally built the game not to have equipment grinds.

[Rhyse.8179]

Agony was specifically added to the game in order to provide an end-game grinding target - something the game lacked at release, and that many many people wanted. That's what it's for. It's not a design flaw, it's the design goal. If you don't like it, don't do high tier fractals. There's no content gated behind it. The lower tiers are there for a reason.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@Michael.9403 said:It's just an equipment grind. What's unusual about it is that ANET generally built the game not to have equipment grinds.

Well, that principle died quite a long time ago. We don't have the traditional vertical grind of other MMOs, but that's replaced with horizontal grind to get gear for different builds. For my guardian main, I'd like to have three different sets of gear for PvE alone (berserker gear for DH, pure condi gear for FB dps and condi-support gear for a support FB). For venturing into PvD, I'd need a fourth one. It's similar for other classes - if you like more than one play style, quite some classes need more than one set.

[Fluffball.8307]

@"Michael.9403" said:It's just an equipment grind. What's unusual about it is that ANET generally built the game not to have equipment grinds.

It's also not even a useful equipment grind. Everyone is wrongly saying it's a noob filter, but the exact same thing could be done without the need for ascended armor on every single character or build you want to play in fractals. Make it account bound and it still proves you know how to play T4 fractals. When I made a thread about this last time, IIRC the dev response was that one reason they couldn't change it to make it better was a lot of people have already spent money on the AR (although legendary weapons already have a precedent of making things better at the cost of people spending a lot of weapons, thus the "twice told legend" title.)

[STIHL.2489]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@"Michael.9403" said:It's just an equipment grind. What's unusual about it is that ANET generally built the game not to have equipment grinds.

It's also not even a useful equipment grind. Everyone is wrongly saying it's a noob filter, but the exact same thing could be done without the need for ascended armor on every single character or build you want to play in fractals. Make it account bound and it still proves you know how to play T4 fractals. When I made a thread about this last time, IIRC the dev response was that one reason they couldn't change it to make it better was a lot of people have already spent money on the AR (although legendary weapons already have a precedent of making things better at the cost of people spending a lot of weapons, thus the "twice told legend" title.)

It's not a "Noob" filter, in fact that is a really insulting and bad to look at it.

I don't think you are a 'noob', as I bet you have been around longer then me, I just like fractals and you don't, its that simple. That why I have a character with 150 AR and you think it's not worth the bother. I have no doubt you could do it, you just don't think it's worth the effort. That does not make you a "Noob" or a bad player on any level.

AR simply makes it so that unless you enjoy the content, and want to invest the time and money into it, and feel that it is worth it, you won't move up.That is why there is T1 - T4, you can test it, play with it, see if you like it, and if you do, you can put in the effort to move up.. if not, you can still enjoy the lower tiers for dailies or what have you, or ignore it all together.

No insult meant, nothing personal, and you are not a noob, or a bad player, or anything negative about you.. Fractals are just something you don't like all that much, so it's not worth it to you. To people that like and enjoy fractals, like me, it's worth it.

To each their own.

[Fluffball.8307]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@"Michael.9403" said:It's just an equipment grind. What's unusual about it is that ANET generally built the game not to have equipment grinds.

It's also not even a useful equipment grind. Everyone is wrongly saying it's a noob filter, but the exact same thing could be done without the need for ascended armor on every single character or build you want to play in fractals. Make it account bound and it still proves you know how to play T4 fractals. When I made a thread about this last time, IIRC the dev response was that one reason they couldn't change it to make it better was a lot of people have already spent money on the AR (although legendary weapons already have a precedent of making things better at the cost of people spending a lot of weapons, thus the "twice told legend" title.)

It's not a "Noob" filter, in fact that is a really insulting and bad to look at it.

I don't think you are a 'noob', as I bet you have been around longer then me, I just like fractals and you don't, its that simple. That why I have a character with 150 AR and you think it's not worth the bother. I have no doubt you could do it, you just don't think it's worth the effort. That does not make you a "Noob" or a bad player on any level.

AR simply makes it so that unless you

enjoy

the content, and want to invest the time and money into it, and feel that it is worth it, you won't move up.That is why there is T1 - T4, you can test it, play with it, see if you like it, and if you do, you can put in the effort to move up.. if not, you can still enjoy the lower tiers for dailies or what have you, or ignore it all together.

No insult meant, nothing personal, and you are not a noob, or a bad player, or anything negative about you.. Fractals are just something you don't like all that much, so it's not worth it to you. To people that like and enjoy fractals, like me, it's worth it.

To each their own.

I didn't mean you talking about me, I'm fine with whatever happens in the game and don't need anything to change for me specifically.

A lot of the responses have been that AR is good because it prevents noobs and newbies from flooding T4. That's a fair enough argument and I actually agree with it; the same thing exists in PvP with MMR. What isn't a fair argument is that you can't change builds or characters without a MAJOR investment. If I didn't already have the money, it would take me months to farm the gold just to make a healing druid instead of my current DPS ascended armor. If tuesday I feel like playing my necro in fractals at something other than absolute beginner level, I simply can't. That's why I deleted all my AR infusions off my armor. If I can't play what I want when I want, I just don't want to deal with it. The most telling thing is the current fractal devs admitted this is not an ideal system.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@"Michael.9403" said:It's just an equipment grind. What's unusual about it is that ANET generally built the game not to have equipment grinds.

It's also not even a useful equipment grind. Everyone is wrongly saying it's a noob filter, but the exact same thing could be done without the need for ascended armor on every single character or build you want to play in fractals. Make it account bound and it still proves you know how to play T4 fractals. When I made a thread about this last time, IIRC the dev response was that one reason they couldn't change it to make it better was a lot of people have already spent money on the AR (although legendary weapons already have a precedent of making things better at the cost of people spending a lot of weapons, thus the "twice told legend" title.)

Agree ascended amor and agony has too go

[STIHL.2489]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@"Michael.9403" said:It's just an equipment grind. What's unusual about it is that ANET generally built the game not to have equipment grinds.

It's also not even a useful equipment grind. Everyone is wrongly saying it's a noob filter, but the exact same thing could be done without the need for ascended armor on every single character or build you want to play in fractals. Make it account bound and it still proves you know how to play T4 fractals. When I made a thread about this last time, IIRC the dev response was that one reason they couldn't change it to make it better was a lot of people have already spent money on the AR (although legendary weapons already have a precedent of making things better at the cost of people spending a lot of weapons, thus the "twice told legend" title.)

It's not a "Noob" filter, in fact that is a really insulting and bad to look at it.

I don't think you are a 'noob', as I bet you have been around longer then me, I just like fractals and you don't, its that simple. That why I have a character with 150 AR and you think it's not worth the bother. I have no doubt you could do it, you just don't think it's worth the effort. That does not make you a "Noob" or a bad player on any level.

AR simply makes it so that unless you

enjoy

the content, and want to invest the time and money into it, and feel that it is worth it, you won't move up.That is why there is T1 - T4, you can test it, play with it, see if you like it, and if you do, you can put in the effort to move up.. if not, you can still enjoy the lower tiers for dailies or what have you, or ignore it all together.

No insult meant, nothing personal, and you are not a noob, or a bad player, or anything negative about you.. Fractals are just something you don't like all that much, so it's not worth it to you. To people that like and enjoy fractals, like me, it's worth it.

To each their own.

I didn't mean you talking about me, I'm fine with whatever happens in the game and don't need anything to change for me specifically.

A lot of the responses have been that AR is good because it prevents noobs and newbies from flooding T4. That's a fair enough argument and I actually agree with it; the same thing exists in PvP with MMR. What isn't a fair argument is that you can't change builds or characters without a MAJOR investment. If I didn't already have the money, it would take me months to farm the gold just to make a healing druid instead of my current DPS ascended armor. If tuesday I feel like playing my necro in fractals at something other than absolute beginner level, I simply can't. That's why I deleted all my AR infusions off my armor. If I can't play what I want when I want, I just don't want to deal with it. The most telling thing is the current fractal devs admitted this is not an ideal system.

I know what you mean, but, keep in mind, all of us had to make that decision at the start of which single character we were going to move up the tiers. Just a part of the process.

I get that it is not for you, but, different people like different things, and that does not mean its a bad system at all.

Truth be told, IMHO, their Raid system had so many drama and social issues attached to it, it was not even funny, so,.. I wonder what they think an ideal system is.

[Fluffball.8307]

@STIHL.2489 said:Truth be told, IMHO, their Raid system had so many drama and social issues attached to it, it was not even funny, so,.. I wonder what they think an ideal system is.

It's not applicable at this stage of the PvE game, but the PvP system -- despite all the flack it gets on the forums -- is as close to perfect as you're going to get. It's 100% skill based. Everyone gets free gear and you are gated out of playing higher than you are capable of playing.

[Astralporing.1957]

@STIHL.2489 said:I get that it is not for you, but, different people like different things, and that does not mean its a bad system at all.It doesn't mean it's a good sysem either.You keep forgetting that the people that like gear grind, and the people that like fractal-like content are not the same people. These groups are not exclusive, and there is an overlap, but that are still two different categories. And notice, that the only alternative without the gear grind (dungeons) are an abandoned content now (and fractal reward levels are calculated around t4, not t1).

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Truth be told, IMHO, their Raid system had so many drama and social issues attached to it, it was not even funny, so,.. I wonder what they think an

ideal

system is.

It's not applicable at this stage of the PvE game, but the PvP system -- despite all the flack it gets on the forums -- is as close to perfect as you're going to get. It's 100% skill based. Everyone gets free gear and you are gated out of playing higher than you are capable of playing.

LOLI don't even...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and actually is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

[Mysticjedi.6053]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Truth be told, IMHO, their Raid system had so many drama and social issues attached to it, it was not even funny, so,.. I wonder what they think an

ideal

system is.

It's not applicable at this stage of the PvE game, but the PvP system -- despite all the flack it gets on the forums -- is as close to perfect as you're going to get. It's 100% skill based. Everyone gets free gear and you are gated out of playing higher than you are capable of playing.

LOLI don't even...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

I don't think Fractals are elitist in their implementation. Players make such content elitist. The same is true for raids, speed dungeon runs, and pvp. I don't blame those players. They have put time into something and don't want to rehash the work they've done to get someone else to that point.

The question I truly have is if agony really is a necessary part of fractals or if the difficulty levels and learning curve can be done without it. I will be honest I wouldn't mind if it went. It does feel useless to me.

Before people say I'm lazy please note that I have full set of legendary armor (got it the first day it came out). I've done almost 200 fractals as well (I know that is nothing to some of you). Getting full AR is not really my problem. I simply am asking a question. People's elitism does not bother me in the least and is not a factor in the discussion.

People seemed to have mastered raid difficulty without agony. Why can't fractals simply have the same level of difficulty geared for a 5 person team? That would make more sense rather than trying to tie it together with an inane storyline. This would require a rebalance and it would require people to relearn fights. I get people may be against agony leaving because they don't want to put time into another system change.

[Fluffball.8307]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Truth be told, IMHO, their Raid system had so many drama and social issues attached to it, it was not even funny, so,.. I wonder what they think an

ideal

system is.

It's not applicable at this stage of the PvE game, but the PvP system -- despite all the flack it gets on the forums -- is as close to perfect as you're going to get. It's 100% skill based. Everyone gets free gear and you are gated out of playing higher than you are capable of playing.

LOLI don't even...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

I'm pretty sure I could flat out buy your entire account if it were for sale for gold or AP. I don't give a darn about "elitism" in regards to it excluding me. I really wish there was a block function on the forums because I have no idea why you even post.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:I get that it is not for you, but, different people like different things, and that does not mean its a bad system at all.It doesn't mean it's a good sysem either.You keep forgetting that the people that like gear grind, and the people that like fractal-like content are not the same people. These groups are not exclusive, and there is an overlap, but that are still two different categories. And notice, that the only alternative without the gear grind (dungeons) are an abandoned content now (and fractal reward levels are calculated around t4, not t1).

Keep in mind, I only do T2 to T3 myself, even if I have a 150 AR, so I could do T4 if I wanted to, but I don't feel my build is optimal enough, and I would not have seen or realized that if I could have just walked in at T4, so I don't feel the whole "everyone should be able to do T4" and get the T4 loot. I am not hurting in my fractal currency doing T2 and T3. Which really does make the Fractals reward system one of the best in the game. the AR system is by far best gate system in the game, and tiers are wonderfully done.

And the Alternate Content is Raids, which are still going strong last I looked.. and are riddled with far more drama then fractals, I am not feeling the urge to remove AR so that the same drama around raids and dungeons can come to fractals. Pass on that.

[CptAurellian.9537]

@Astralporing.1957 said:(and fractal reward levels are calculated around t4, not t1).Are they? T1 rewards aren't that bad for content that's mindnumbingly easy and often soloable without the effort you had to put in for something like Arah solos.

[FrostDraco.8306]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I get that it is not for you, but, different people like different things, and that does not mean its a bad system at all.It doesn't mean it's a good sysem either.You keep forgetting that the people that like gear grind, and the people that like fractal-like content are not the same people. These groups are not exclusive, and there is an overlap, but that are still two different categories. And notice, that the only alternative without the gear grind (dungeons) are an abandoned content now (and fractal reward levels are calculated around t4, not t1).

Except that fractals has always had a bit of gear grind so there is major overlap. The only people i ever see making this an issue, are the people that do not like fractals enough to gear grind. Which is fine, they can stay at lower teirs. They are not OWED anything. And the fact it keeps people like that out does indeed make it a good system, in addition to the -70% healing debuff people seem to keep forgetting exist. Which adds a mechanic you actually need to pay attention to. It isn't just negated by having the req AR, of which people keep talking like it is, which means A, they are not familiar enough with AR as a mechanic to understand that meeting the required AR doesn't negate it; or B, they aren't actually interested in how to improve fractal mechanics, they just want AR to be nerfed as an easy in, by simplifying what it actually does, and strawmanning the entire system.

[FrostDraco.8306]

@Fluffball.8307 said:I didn't mean you talking about me, I'm fine with whatever happens in the game and don't need anything to change for me specifically.

A lot of the responses have been that AR is good because it prevents noobs and newbies from flooding T4. That's a fair enough argument and I actually agree with it; the same thing exists in PvP with MMR. What isn't a fair argument is that you can't change builds or characters without a MAJOR investment. If I didn't already have the money, it would take me months to farm the gold just to make a healing druid instead of my current DPS ascended armor. If tuesday I feel like playing my necro in fractals at something other than absolute beginner level, I simply can't. That's why I deleted all my AR infusions off my armor. If I can't play what I want when I want, I just don't want to deal with it. The most telling thing is the current fractal devs admitted this is not an ideal system.

"Ideal" as in what the current devs would have liked it to be, and for what we have, I'd say its one of the best they could have come up with. You shouldn't do t4 without a major investing. You are literally ruining the play time of 4 other players coming into t4 without a clue how to properly function as a team on what you are playing at the time. It's already EXTREMELY EASY to get into t4's and i have to kick people all the time who come with things like staff necro, or axe/axe warrior. Save it for lower teirs.

Whats more interesting is, do you only have one set of ascended armor? Because i don't see why would couldn't just make more. Same for infusions. You'd rather complain than just do it.

@Fluffball.8307 said:

I'm pretty sure I could flat out buy your entire account if it were for sale for gold or AP. I don't give a darn about "elitism" in regards to it excluding me. I really wish there was a block function on the forums because I have no idea why you even post.

Neither of which would make you interested in doing fractals, so i don't see why buying an account would change anything. Seeing as any gold or money spent could have just been used to buy AR, and then you are back to square one, actually doing the fractals. No amount of gold or AP would make you a competent fractal player, and none of it would make you less likely to cry about elitism.

You just shouldn't post if you can't handle criticism.

@Fluffball.8307 said:

It's not applicable at this stage of the PvE game, but the PvP system -- despite all the flack it gets on the forums -- is as close to perfect as you're going to get. It's 100% skill based. Everyone gets free gear and you are gated out of playing higher than you are capable of playing.

I guess you hadn't heard about the win trading, the greifers, the dc's, and the afkers every pvp season right? If you think pvp in this game is 100% skill based you are out of touch with reality. Literally ALL of the top 20 spots this season were involved in some sort of win trading, including the number 1 and number 2. And these players don't even get banned on top of that. We are talking about the most skilled players in this game. You are speaking from sheer ignorance.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Truth be told, IMHO, their Raid system had so many drama and social issues attached to it, it was not even funny, so,.. I wonder what they think an

ideal

system is.

It's not applicable at this stage of the PvE game, but the PvP system -- despite all the flack it gets on the forums -- is as close to perfect as you're going to get. It's 100% skill based. Everyone gets free gear and you are gated out of playing higher than you are capable of playing.

LOLI don't even...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

I don't think Fractals are elitist in their implementation. Players make such content elitist. The same is true for raids, speed dungeon runs, and pvp. I don't blame those players. They have put time into something and don't want to rehash the work they've done to get someone else to that point.

The question I truly have is if agony really is a necessary part of fractals or if the difficulty levels and learning curve can be done without it. I will be honest I wouldn't mind if it went. It does feel useless to me.

Before people say I'm lazy please note that I have full set of legendary armor (got it the first day it came out). I've done almost 200 fractals as well (I know that is nothing to some of you). Getting full AR is not really my problem. I simply am asking a question. People's elitism does not bother me in the least and is not a factor in the discussion.

People seemed to have mastered raid difficulty without agony. Why can't fractals simply have the same level of difficulty geared for a 5 person team? That would make more sense rather than trying to tie it together with an inane storyline. This would require a rebalance and it would require people to relearn fights. I get people may be against agony leaving because they don't want to put time into another system change.

The thing is that the difficulty progression should be: Open World->Dungeon Story->Dungeon Explorable->Fractals T1-T4->RaidsThat's why Tiers and Agony in fractal are a thing, they offer a learning curve. If they got rid of Tiers and agony, it would remove a ton of play time from fractals, and would remove that learning curve.

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:

@Fluffball.8307 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Truth be told, IMHO, their Raid system had so many drama and social issues attached to it, it was not even funny, so,.. I wonder what they think an

ideal

system is.

It's not applicable at this stage of the PvE game, but the PvP system -- despite all the flack it gets on the forums -- is as close to perfect as you're going to get. It's 100% skill based. Everyone gets free gear and you are gated out of playing higher than you are capable of playing.

LOLI don't even...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

I'm pretty sure I could flat out buy your entire account if it were for sale for gold or AP. I don't give a darn about "elitism" in regards to it excluding me. I really wish there was a block function on the forums because I have no idea why you even post.

Probably not, even if you could that doesn't say anything about your commitment to fractals. There's a lot of drones farming SW, or those AFK "bots" in a ton of maps. Eventually they'll have enough gold to buy any account, doesn't mean they know how to play, or anything about fractal.You do have 2k more AP than me (28 245 vs my 26 832 as i write this) , so congrats in that front.But what i asked was, are those people that harp about agony even interested in Fractals? You already said no.So if you're not interested in the content, why but in?

[Fluffball.8307]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:But what i asked was, are those people that harp about agony even interested in Fractals? You already said no.So if you're not interested in the content, why but in?

Because I used to be, and would like to see the system replaced with something that isn't stupid. Also it's a discussion forum and I am pretty passionate about GW2. Sorry for talking about GW2, your majesty. I'll go clean a latrine now.

[Fluffball.8307]

@FrostDraco.8306 said:

I guess you hadn't heard about the win trading, the greifers, the dc's, and the afkers every pvp season right? If you think pvp in this game is 100% skill based you are out of touch with reality. Literally ALL of the top 20 spots this season were involved in some sort of win trading, including the number 1 and number 2. And these players don't even get banned on top of that. We are talking about the most skilled players in this game. You are speaking from sheer ignorance.

Way to COMPLETELY miss the point in favor of just calling me stupid. Nice post.