Is Agony Necessary?

[KeoLegend.5132]

THE PROBLEM is the Gold Sink already spent on AR

[Astralporing.1957]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot.I have been actually doing fractals a lot (though slowed down lately due to the new ones being highly unappealing to me), so i am

not

basing this on hearsay.

Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all.Yeah, fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, but the difficulty jump is so low, that the instabilities will matter far more. There were (and still are) cases where you'd rather pick a higher-floor version over lower-floor one because it would have a more favourable instability set.

Basically, the only problem in making the jump to t4 is when you're already struggling at t3. In general t3 is hard enough that if you can manage it, you're already good enough for t4's, because you have already good enough skillwise, and have grasped all the critical points of that specific fractal. Those that cannot pass that hurdle will be limited not to t3, but to t1-t2. And not because of agony.

The thing here is without something like AR, no one would stop and progress though the fractal levels to discover where their skill level stops, and we know it, they would all rush to T4, and either demand that T4 be made easier, or that they be carried, just like what happened with Raids and Dungeons. AR has allowed fractals to avoid that problem, so it's doing it's job perfectly.

But is the gear and character based agony really necessary for that? Wouldn't an account-bound gear-independent system work exactly as well for that, without having most of the cons the current system has? It's not like the current system stops the people you speak of, by the way, considering you can get ar completely outside of fractals.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot.I have been actually doing fractals a lot (though slowed down lately due to the new ones being highly unappealing to me), so i am

not

basing this on hearsay.

Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all.Yeah, fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, but the difficulty jump is so low, that the instabilities will matter far more. There were (and still are) cases where you'd rather pick a higher-floor version over lower-floor one because it would have a more favourable instability set.

Basically, the only problem in making the jump to t4 is when you're already struggling at t3. In general t3 is hard enough that if you can manage it, you're already good enough for t4's, because you have already good enough skillwise, and have grasped all the critical points of that specific fractal. Those that cannot pass that hurdle will be limited not to t3, but to t1-t2. And not because of agony.

The thing here is without something like AR, no one would stop and progress though the fractal levels to discover where their skill level stops, and we know it, they would all rush to T4, and either demand that T4 be made easier, or that they be carried, just like what happened with Raids and Dungeons. AR has allowed fractals to avoid that problem, so it's doing it's job perfectly.

But is the gear and character based agony really necessary for that? Wouldn't an account-bound gear-independent system work exactly as well for that, without having most of the cons the current system has? It's not like the current system stops the people you speak of, by the way, considering you can get ar completely outside of fractals.

Sure, maybe! But after you have a character doing T4, and you do it regularly, you won't have a problem with it.I mean, aside from ascended gear, which you should always have that requirement even with account bound AR. You can easily even just change the infusions, not to mention you basically get a +9 a day. So in a Fortnight you get enough AR for a full character.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:Yah. there are additional issues with trying to do T4, that is not there in T3, which makes the content harder, and every bit of sub-optimal your build is stats to really shine as you move up. This is the illusion that people that don't do fractals have, they think it's all the same.. it's not, not my a long shot.I have been actually doing fractals a lot (though slowed down lately due to the new ones being highly unappealing to me), so i am

not

basing this on hearsay.

Even in the Tiers themselves there is difficulty scale, Fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, even if they are technically the same fractal, things change as you move up, and to be honest, making that a slow progress with some gates, is not a bad thing at all.Yeah, fractal 52 is not as hard as fractal 72, but the difficulty jump is so low, that the instabilities will matter far more. There were (and still are) cases where you'd rather pick a higher-floor version over lower-floor one because it would have a more favourable instability set.

Basically, the only problem in making the jump to t4 is when you're already struggling at t3. In general t3 is hard enough that if you can manage it, you're already good enough for t4's, because you have already good enough skillwise, and have grasped all the critical points of that specific fractal. Those that cannot pass that hurdle will be limited not to t3, but to t1-t2. And not because of agony.

The thing here is without something like AR, no one would stop and progress though the fractal levels to discover where their skill level stops, and we know it, they would all rush to T4, and either demand that T4 be made easier, or that they be carried, just like what happened with Raids and Dungeons. AR has allowed fractals to avoid that problem, so it's doing it's job perfectly.

But is the gear and character based agony really necessary for that? Wouldn't an account-bound gear-independent system work exactly as well for that, without having most of the cons the current system has? It's not like the current system stops the people you speak of, by the way, considering you can get ar completely outside of fractals.

I am going to say "yes" on the tentative, that it makes it so each character is optimal, that you can's just get account bound and then flood in with "whatever flavor build you want"

Also, if they remove AR from being account bound, you know for a fact everyone will slot +5 stat, which means the content will need to be set for that slot being filled by a stat boost, as opposed to AR.

Which will lead people to want more then a +5, and we are back to a gear grind.. but now a real gear grind.

[Mourningcry.9428]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and actually is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

That'd be me... as can be seen by my post earlier in this thread. As a note, I've stopped doing FoTM regularly, but prior to PoF, I was in the top ~100 on GW2e for Pristine Relics; regularly sold 50s prior to HoT, and owe a number of other Vets for getting me to that point when I just started out.

AR no longer represents the gating it once did; nor does it any longer represent effort or commitment to FotM. The only real gate is a gold gate to acquire the AR for T4. With the ability to even purchase mist essences, the grind to infuse/attune items is trivialized as well. Infused rings and backpacks (even legendary) from PvP and WvW, further exemplify the triviality.

The Agony mechanic itself is fine, and adds flavor, but its role as a progression gate is long since past.

Edit: Typos

[STIHL.2489]

@Mourningcry.9428 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

That'd be me... as can be seen by my post earlier in this thread. As a note, I've stopped doing FoTM regularly, but prior to PoF, I was in the top ~100 on GW2e for Pristine Relics; regularly sold 50s prior to HoT, and owe a number of other Vets for getting me to that point when I just started out.

AR no longer represents the gating it once did; nor does it any longer represent effort or commitment to FotM. The only real gate is a gold gate to acquire the AR for T4. With the ability to even purchase mist essences, the grind to infuse/attune items is trivialized as well. Infused rings and backpacks (even legendary) from PvP and WvW, further exemplify the triviality.

The Agony mechanic itself is fine, and adds flavor, but its role as a progression gate is long since past.

Edit: Typos

It's role is diminished, yes.. but.. not invalid.

[Mourningcry.9428]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Mourningcry.9428 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

That'd be me... as can be seen by my post earlier in this thread. As a note, I've stopped doing FoTM regularly, but prior to PoF, I was in the top ~100 on GW2e for Pristine Relics; regularly sold 50s prior to HoT, and owe a number of other Vets for getting me to that point when I just started out.

AR no longer represents the gating it once did; nor does it any longer represent effort or commitment to FotM. The only real gate is a gold gate to acquire the AR for T4. With the ability to even purchase mist essences, the grind to infuse/attune items is trivialized as well. Infused rings and backpacks (even legendary) from PvP and WvW, further exemplify the triviality.

The Agony mechanic itself is fine, and adds flavor, but its role as a progression gate is long since past.

Edit: Typos

It's role is diminished, yes.. but.. not invalid.

I did not say it's invalid. I said it's no longer relevant as a progression gating mechanic it once was.

If you wish to refute what I said, please elaborate on how the role of AR has been reduced to little beyond a gold sync. As I explained above, AR for T4 can be achieved from trinkets alone with little to no previous effort in FoTM itself.

[lagrangewei.8516]

the way i see it is they should make Agony something you can survive then an kill check. that this is something that is optional. instead of just being a flet damage taken, make it something like a flat increase in damage taken and reduction in damage output. remove all the agony only attack and make then standard attack. but anyway they are not going to address this shit, it been wrong for years if they want to rebalance it they would have.

[STIHL.2489]

@Mourningcry.9428 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Mourningcry.9428 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

That'd be me... as can be seen by my post earlier in this thread. As a note, I've stopped doing FoTM regularly, but prior to PoF, I was in the top ~100 on GW2e for Pristine Relics; regularly sold 50s prior to HoT, and owe a number of other Vets for getting me to that point when I just started out.

AR no longer represents the gating it once did; nor does it any longer represent effort or commitment to FotM. The only real gate is a gold gate to acquire the AR for T4. With the ability to even purchase mist essences, the grind to infuse/attune items is trivialized as well. Infused rings and backpacks (even legendary) from PvP and WvW, further exemplify the triviality.

The Agony mechanic itself is fine, and adds flavor, but its role as a progression gate is long since past.

Edit: Typos

It's role is diminished, yes.. but.. not invalid.

I did not say it's invalid. I said it's no longer relevant as a progression gating mechanic it once was.

If you wish to refute what I said, please elaborate on how the role of AR has been reduced to little beyond a gold sync. As I explained above, AR for T4 can be achieved from trinkets alone with little to no previous effort in FoTM itself.

Did we refute each other?

[Mourningcry.9428]

@"STIHL.2489" said:...Did we refute each other?

If by "... not invalid." you were implying anything beyond a gold sync, then yes.

Otherwise, no, and apologies for my misinterpretation.

[Tenrai Senshi.2017]

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:Agony flavor wise feels justifiable, but is it really necessary? It kind of feels like an unnecessary gate to content.

Is there another way to make the content difficult without agony?

Personally, while I understand the attempt at encouraging players to acquire ascended gear and subsequently agony resistance as a means of advancement, I do think the system is a bit needlessly convoluted. With that being said, I doubt they'll remove it. It plays a role in the market, and then there's the matter of players having already invested a lot of gold or time into the system, which would be invalidated if it was removed.

[Bugabuga.9721]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@"Bugabuga.9721" said:Also Agony gave us the "gift" of unique rings, where you couldn't have two identical rings to force people to only have one offensive and one defensive infusions :anguished: wish that part would be fixed...

That's been fixed.. while you still can't wear the same rings, they removed the Offence/Defense thing, so you can +5 our way to +90 in a single stat now, as opposed to needing to split it up

"Fixed" kinda half-way. Normal fix would be "wear as many rings of arbitrary name as you want, with any infusion", that's why I called it a "gift" as it still hasn't been fully fixed. Though some rings are not unique ("universal" fractal rings, and have all available stats too, yay)

[Minna.7895]

I don't think getting the ascended equip and the AR infusions is the problem. I do have more of a problem changing my infusions from the useful +5 stat wvw ones to AR ones with no +5 stats (the ones with both are too expensive in my opinion). So a solution to this problem would either be to lower the prices of the ones that give you both stats (I'm talking the 9 AR +5 stat ones to reach the 150 AR) to an equal lvl of the wvw ones. Or to make AR accountwide or at least consumable in some way so they don't fight the slot of the wvw ones. And no permanent switching is not a solution besides the cost it just takes too long without build templates (but maybe I am just too lazy). Atm I solved the problem by not running with my main, only an alt that doesn't have wvw infusions yet ( but even with her I would prefer to get them for the stats)

[Fluffball.8307]

@Tenrai Senshi.2017 said:

@Mysticjedi.6053 said:Agony flavor wise feels justifiable, but is it really necessary? It kind of feels like an unnecessary gate to content.

Is there another way to make the content difficult without agony?

Personally, while I understand the attempt at encouraging players to acquire ascended gear and subsequently agony resistance as a means of advancement, I do think the system is a bit needlessly convoluted. With that being said, I doubt they'll remove it. It plays a role in the market, and then there's the matter of players having already invested a lot of gold or time into the system, which would be invalidated if it was removed.

This is almost exactly the dev response my thread got on the old forums. The system is already too engrained, so even though it's not ideal it's not going away. The cleaned it up as much as possible instead.

If fractals were introduced today, AR would either be much less convoluted or removed entirely.

[ReaverKane.7598]

@Mourningcry.9428 said:

@ReaverKane.7598 said:...@Fluffball.8307 , @"Laila Lightness.8742" and othersSeriously, who here is opposed to Agnoy and

actually

is interested in, or does fractals daily? Because i'm getting the feeling that this is not really about agony, but another version of the "fractals are elitists" or "only certain classes can play", etc threads. In other words people that instead of progressing with the game, into harder content, want to get the benefits of the harder content without the "effort" required to complete said harder content.

That'd be me... as can be seen by my post earlier in this thread. As a note, I've stopped doing FoTM regularly, but prior to PoF, I was in the top ~100 on GW2e for Pristine Relics; regularly sold 50s prior to HoT, and owe a number of other Vets for getting me to that point when I just started out.

AR no longer represents the gating it once did; nor does it any longer represent effort or commitment to FotM. The only real gate is a gold gate to acquire the AR for T4. With the ability to even purchase mist essences, the grind to infuse/attune items is trivialized as well. Infused rings and backpacks (even legendary) from PvP and WvW, further exemplify the triviality.

The Agony mechanic itself is fine, and adds flavor, but its role as a progression gate is long since past.

Edit: Typos

I do agree with that, and stated that before that the ability to TP infusions was hindering the purpose of AR; but that's not a problem with AR itself.I think it's mostly because Anet couldn't bring themselves to remove Infusions from the TP.I mean old system 90% of your AR was from +5 and +7 you'd get with relics only. Then you'd have your random +10 or so to cap it off on your rings or back pieces.Then they changed it so that +1 Infusion derivates were the norm, and removed the old relic-only infusions. But they didn't remove the ability to sell +1's which kinda broke the system.

@Minna.7895 said:I don't think getting the ascended equip and the AR infusions is the problem. I do have more of a problem changing my infusions from the useful +5 stat wvw ones to AR ones with no +5 stats (the ones with both are too expensive in my opinion). So a solution to this problem would either be to lower the prices of the ones that give you both stats (I'm talking the 9 AR +5 stat ones to reach the 150 AR) to an equal lvl of the wvw ones. Or to make AR accountwide or at least consumable in some way so they don't fight the slot of the wvw ones. And no permanent switching is not a solution besides the cost it just takes too long without build templates (but maybe I am just too lazy). Atm I solved the problem by not running with my main, only an alt that doesn't have wvw infusions yet ( but even with her I would prefer to get them for the stats)I disagree... +85 to a stat is a huge increase, and shouldn't be cheap.

[Minna.7895]

I thought a bit more about it and it seems to me the best solution would be to really make it soulbound consumable... so it wouldnt be wasted for anyone who already got it for several charakters, but you wouldnt need ascended equipment or if you already have this anyways it won't block the slots and you can use statsinfusions instead. Even the people who already have the +9 + stats+5 can either convert and sell them (as polyluminescent ones) or can keep them as they are accbound.

[Minna.7895]

I disagree... +85 to a stat is a huge increase, and shouldn't be cheap.

Yes it is huge but it is cheap already- just not combined with agony ... if they change that somehow I'm sure more ppl would do fractals more regular.

[JVJD.4912]

Actually i would rather prefer they remove agony altogether and just make the fusion stat sticks , players are always able to group up or leave anytime they want

If its a raid and someone is under performing either i kick them or i leaveIf its a dungeon and someone is being an assclown either i vote kick or i leaveIf its a fractal its basically the same as dungeons either i vote kick or i leave

Whats is the point of agony? Another barrier for sake of a barrier .We impose enough restrictions in our groups on who we invite we don't need more :)

[Astralporing.1957]

@"STIHL.2489" said:I am going to say "yes" on the tentative, that it makes it so each character is optimal, that you can's just get account bound and then flood in with "whatever flavor build you want"I can already do that. In fact, i have already done that - all my current fractal characters entered fractals already fully equipped and with AR maxed (for the amount that was required at that time). The character that obtained infusions for the first of those characters, incidentally, never got any ar at all.

I'm pretty sure that i'm not unique in that regard and that most fractal players do not in fact obtain infusions for their alts on those alts, but rather farm them on characters that already can do t4's (or, most likely, use the infusions they've already obtained before).

Which makes the whole "character based" limitation nothing more than an annoyance (and a material/gold sink, which may be something good for Anet, but is not so good for the players).

[Faaris.8013]

@ReaverKane.7598 said:I disagree... +85 to a stat is a huge increase, and shouldn't be cheap.

Isn't it only 2% damage increase for dps classes? That is not huge, I'm not going to pay 1600+ gold for 2% more dps. Also, you are limited to +9 infusions for fractals.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@"STIHL.2489" said:I am going to say "yes" on the tentative, that it makes it so each character is optimal, that you can's just get account bound and then flood in with "whatever flavor build you want"I can already do that. In fact, i

have

already done that - all my current fractal characters entered fractals already fully equipped and with AR maxed (for the amount that was required at that time). The character that obtained infusions for the first of those characters, incidentally, never got any ar at all.

I'm pretty sure that i'm not unique in that regard and that most fractal players do not in fact obtain infusions for their alts on those alts, but rather farm them on characters that already can do t4's (or, most likely, use the infusions they've already obtained before).

Which makes the whole "character based" limitation nothing more than an annoyance (and a material/gold sink, which may be something good for Anet, but is not so good for the players).

But see, it's not the infusion itself, it's the slot. I mean really, if you are going to go through the effort to get full ascended, it's like "Well they are serious about that class and about this content'

That's all.

Think of it like a flagging Mechanic, most raids that have a flagging mechanic, require you to flag every character, it's like a deftness of purpose gate.

[Astralporing.1957]

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to say "yes" on the tentative, that it makes it so each character is optimal, that you can's just get account bound and then flood in with "whatever flavor build you want"I can already do that. In fact, i

have

already done that - all my current fractal characters entered fractals already fully equipped and with AR maxed (for the amount that was required at that time). The character that obtained infusions for the first of those characters, incidentally, never got any ar at all.

I'm pretty sure that i'm not unique in that regard and that most fractal players do not in fact obtain infusions for their alts on those alts, but rather farm them on characters that already can do t4's (or, most likely, use the infusions they've already obtained before).

Which makes the whole "character based" limitation nothing more than an annoyance (and a material/gold sink, which may be something good for Anet, but is not so good for the players).

But see, it's not the infusion itself, it's the slot. I mean really, if you are going to go through the effort to get full ascended, it's like "Well they are serious about that class and about this content'Just so you know, i have a fully geared (in ascended) bearbow. That doesn't mean i want to use it for fractals. Or that i treat this build (and character) seriously (because, well, duh... bearbow). I just like to have all my characters in BiS.I doubt i'm the only person who thinks and acts that way.

[Laila Lightness.8742]

I see agony as this a really pointless mechanic the fact you reduce it with ar too point its not mattering is terrible for then whats the point with it just wipe asc and ar and agony away and put infusion slot for stat on exotics with no increase in price

[Henry.5713]

They'd have to come up with a meaningful compensation for anyone who bothered to acquire a set of +9/+5 infusions, multiple unique stat sets or even multiple sets of the same stat type. The major backslash they might receive is most likely the main deterrent that stops them from implementing huge changes.Account wide agony or soulbound consumables wouldn't work for everyone. The first one would make any second set useless while the latter would no longer allow you to move or remove infusions at your leasure. There is nothing more annoying than being punished for investing deeply into min-maxing your characters by having all of that work made meaningless, by a change that happened after others went and complained about the difficulty of said min-maxing no less.

And no, agony resistance is not necessary. The system in place is outdated and more of an artifical barrier than anything else. But it is there and people got used to it, even invested lots of time and effort to work with this system. Any good solution would require a lot of thought unless they were willing to piss of one or even multiple groups of their customers just to please the most casual of players.

[STIHL.2489]

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:

@Astralporing.1957 said:

@STIHL.2489 said:I am going to say "yes" on the tentative, that it makes it so each character is optimal, that you can's just get account bound and then flood in with "whatever flavor build you want"I can already do that. In fact, i

have

already done that - all my current fractal characters entered fractals already fully equipped and with AR maxed (for the amount that was required at that time). The character that obtained infusions for the first of those characters, incidentally, never got any ar at all.

I'm pretty sure that i'm not unique in that regard and that most fractal players do not in fact obtain infusions for their alts on those alts, but rather farm them on characters that already can do t4's (or, most likely, use the infusions they've already obtained before).

Which makes the whole "character based" limitation nothing more than an annoyance (and a material/gold sink, which may be something good for Anet, but is not so good for the players).

But see, it's not the infusion itself, it's the slot. I mean really, if you are going to go through the effort to get full ascended, it's like "Well they are serious about that class and about this content'Just so you know, i have a fully geared (in ascended) bearbow. That doesn't mean i want to use it for fractals. Or that i treat this build (and character) seriously (because, well, duh... bearbow). I just like to have all my characters in BiS.I doubt i'm the only person who thinks and acts that way.

I have a cele ranger in full wup-wup Ascended, with ALL infusions slots (and I mean all, Attuned/Infused, and yes.. I gave them +90 Power, and a grand total of 10 AR, WvW infusions are so much better if you just want stats) I don't do fractals with them either.. and why is that? Well I theorize that maybe because after putting in all that time to gear them, and knowing the build, understanding what we were doing in both fractals and with that character we knew better, our involvement with gearing made that clear to us what we were going to do with them.

If gearing them was a 10 min investment, we may not see the writing on the wall so vividly, but because it needed full ascended, we saw their weakness and their limitations long before we even got to the point of getting serious about infusions. and then needing to make the choice to put in that AR, or maybe just go with a +5 stat instead, or just not bother at all, we made the right choice and went with the +5 stat or no slot, because, we knew that this was never going to be a good fractal running character to start with, even if we love them dearly for other parts of the game.

AR did it's job in that front, it made us make that choice, and by needing to make that choice, we made both (our own and the people we would run with) fractal runs better, because we opted to not waste the resources on a character not suited for that environment.

If AR had been account bound, the temptation to bring that flavor build (or any flavor build for that matter) to a fractal run would be too much for people, maybe we could resist.. maybe not.. but the temptation to test how well they could do, would be there. And while temptation would be Nowhere near strong enough to move us to invest the AR into that single toon, but, if it was account bound.. it would be all too easy.

I would rather not allow people that temptation. Making people make that choice and invest into each character they make, often, not always, stops the really bad choices from happening, and in that front AR does its job as well.