Mirage Specialization Updates for the Path of Fire Launch

[OriOri.8724]

Just a quick FYI to everyone in this thread that hasn't read all of the changes coming to the elite specs with PoF launch......

Mirage got, by far, the most updates from the demo weekends. The only other spec that came close to the number of changes was Firebrand, but firebrand also had 15 extra skills via tomes, and 5 of their changes are just applying the same fix to all mantras (well 5.5, the heal mantra got this fix along with other updates).

So, even if you aren't happy with the result, just know that Anet took our feedback and complaints about the class's design seriously. They may not have acted on them, but they definitely gave mirage the most updates out of any gen2 elite spec. Which is heartening.

Also, Robert Gee confirmed that core mesmer (and possibly chrono) is getting changes on launch as well, though it sounds like just bug fixes. most of their time was spent updating the 2nd gen elite specs. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/134725/#Comment_134725

[argyler.2503]

@Miroe.2054 said:Mesmer players, it doesn't matter if you're late for the hype train as long as you're getting on it. I was already excited for Mirage, this is amazing. I don't expect this power boost to last though.

The changes to Mirage cloak, axe ambush, lingering thoughts, false oasis, mirage advance, illusionary ambush and self deception are game changers imo.

The only thing I still wish now for Mirage is to have a unique shatter skill even if it's just having Mirage Mirror applied when using shatter 4 distortion. (EDIT: okay, the replacing trait does exactly this)

EDIT: just figured out, mirage advance is now a clone summoning skill and will have its cd reduced by the illusions trait line.

Same! I don't see what everyone else is complaining about, really... well, I do, but I really think this is great! I am so excited for this! :D

[Parlance.9584]

All of this sounds really nice but its giving me a feeling that chrono is going to get gutted.

[Curunen.8729]

@OriOri.8724 said:Just a quick FYI to everyone in this thread that hasn't read all of the changes coming to the elite specs with PoF launch......

Mirage got, by far, the most updates from the demo weekends. The only other spec that came close to the number of changes was Firebrand, but firebrand also had 15 extra skills via tomes, and 5 of their changes are just applying the same fix to all mantras (well 5.5, the heal mantra got this fix along with other updates).

So, even if you aren't happy with the result, just know that Anet took our feedback and complaints about the class's design seriously. They may not have acted on them, but they definitely gave mirage the most updates out of any gen2 elite spec. Which is heartening.

Also, Robert Gee confirmed that core mesmer (and possibly chrono) is getting changes on launch as well, though it sounds like just bug fixes. most of their time was spent updating the 2nd gen elite specs. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/134725/#Comment_134725

Good to know, thanks. Curious to know what the changes will be to core but at least now somewhat content with the changes mirage has received. :)

[Exciton.8942]

Infinite horizon might actually be the most useless GM trait for mirage. I think it was overhyped due to woodenpotato's video and his inaccurate assessment.

In PvE, dune cloak is more likely the way to go as it directly buffs the condition mesmer who relies on 3 duelists to do damage.IH would require you to keep up 3 clones and their damage is probably not as good as duelists even with the ambush attacks.

In PvP, clones simply die too quickly to make good use of this trait. You also have to use dodge for damage which can be otherwise used for defense.

[Curunen.8729]

@Exciton.8942 said:Infinite horizon might actually be the most useless GM trait for mirage. I think it was overhyped due to woodenpotato's video and his inaccurate assessment.

In PvE, dune cloak is more likely the way to go as it directly buffs the condition mesmer who relies on 3 duelists to do damage.IH would require you to keep up 3 clones and their damage is probably not as good as duelists even with the ambush attacks.

In PvP, clones simply die too quickly to make good use of this trait. You also have to use dodge for damage which can be otherwise used for defense.

Even so it is certainly the most fun trait - both visually and thematically.

[messiah.1908]

it seems to me the push thief to be range class and mesmer to be melee class. so we might see power mesmer come backwhat they will do to chorno or core mesmer shall determine it usefulness

[messiah.1908]

@OriOri.8724 said:Just a quick FYI to everyone in this thread that hasn't read all of the changes coming to the elite specs with PoF launch......

Mirage got, by far, the most updates from the demo weekends. The only other spec that came close to the number of changes was Firebrand, but firebrand also had 15 extra skills via tomes, and 5 of their changes are just applying the same fix to all mantras (well 5.5, the heal mantra got this fix along with other updates).

So, even if you aren't happy with the result, just know that Anet took our feedback and complaints about the class's design seriously. They may not have acted on them, but they definitely gave mirage the most updates out of any gen2 elite spec. Which is heartening.

Also, Robert Gee confirmed that core mesmer (and possibly chrono) is getting changes on launch as well, though it sounds like just bug fixes. most of their time was spent updating the 2nd gen elite specs. https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/134725/#Comment_134725

just because mesmer has so many abilities with ambush. if you check renegade you will see they try to fix the whole concept with weapon, utilities, the f2-f4. basically all of it. but fail imo. guard as you mention small fixes which most are the same

[pico.6402]

Treat changes, I can't wait for tomorrow

[Skuzz.6580]

Most of the replies to the changes have been positive, but I just can't understand how a lot of you still can't be happy with this.. You guys (mesmers) got basically half an Elite Spec change, covering weapon/skills/traits I mean, you couldn't hope for much more than what they gave you in the time they had to do these changes right?I am still in doubt between Ranger and Mesmer, but seeing these changes actually makes me excited for Mesmer more than Ranger.. (Just go and see the Soulbeast changes and you will see how privileged you guys are by all these changes).

Some people will never be satisfied I guess, I'm excited though

[musu.9205]

@Skuzz.6580 said:Most of the replies to the changes have been positive, but I just can't understand how a lot of you still can't be happy with this.. You guys (mesmers) got basically half an Elite Spec change, covering weapon/skills/traits I mean, you couldn't hope for much more than what they gave you in the time they had to do these changes right?I am still in doubt between Ranger and Mesmer, but seeing these changes actually makes me excited for Mesmer more than Ranger.. (Just go and see the Soulbeast changes and you will see how privileged you guys are by all these changes).

Some people will never be satisfied I guess, I'm excited though

yes most changes are positive but first it did not fix core issue with mirror and clone generation .second it did not change playstyle for pve at all .since clone still does way less dps even with IH .thenhalf of those changes are :100 % dmg buff to a skill that does 80 damage (mirror ). or small power damage buff to condi weapon thats axe .many mes main found out some skill function does not work or does meaningless damage , those thing are not getting fixed soon .while understandable , its still sad to say we will get an unfinished elite spec.

for pve , mirage dmg doesnt look good at all .small dps increase over chaos line for sure . but it will still be lowest tier and useless for many bosses.we still have to worry about chrono spot in raid .

think about this :if those change note list actual skill dmg number for certain power instead of 100% dmg buff .you will surely see more people complain .right now , many people don't know what those buff mean

[musu.9205]

@messiah.1908 said:it seems to me the push thief to be range class and mesmer to be melee class. so we might see power mesmer come backwhat they will do to chorno or core mesmer shall determine it usefulness

dom/illu / mirage power interrupt signet build .or dom/insp / mirage . same concept with more signet proc and more condi removal .it would feel like a shadow shot spawn with less dmg but more sustain . in spvp its role will be more like power rev or scrapper still need portal , not sure about moa tho .

btw i really feel anet is going to fix that dodge stomp thing . its stupidly op .

[GWMO.4785]

Nice! The changes makes me stoked to get my hands on mirage even more. Tho a few things i do not understand. As such i would like to point it out

"Ether Barrage: Removed shadowstep. Lowered damage per strike by 35%. You can now move while activating this skill."Here i can understand that the shadowstep has been removed duo to balancing. But given that Mirage is a condi/hybrid spec. The skill applies confusion and torment. Both not that great in pve. It did not specify that the changes are pvp/wvw only either... so why the damage nerf?

"Jaunt: Increased range from 400 to 450."As mentioned by many. It would be nice if this skill had a 600 range

"Self-Deception: Now creates a clone if you have at least 1 illusion."Do we still need to to use a deception skill to trigger this. or does it auto proc when ever we have an illusion up?

"Distorted Desert: This trait causes all illusions shattered by Distortion to become Mirage Mirrors for 15 seconds. Additionally it allows allows ambush skills to be used whenever you grant yourself Distortion."Overall i like this change. What is less tho is that this only works with our F4 now. It would be nice if our other shatter skills would also grand Mirage Cloak for a shorter duration when we use this trait. Idk.. like 2 or 3 seconds perhaps?

[Ansau.7326]

@Skuzz.6580 said:Most of the replies to the changes have been positive, but I just can't understand how a lot of you still can't be happy with this.. You guys (mesmers) got basically half an Elite Spec change, covering weapon/skills/traits I mean, you couldn't hope for much more than what they gave you in the time they had to do these changes right?I am still in doubt between Ranger and Mesmer, but seeing these changes actually makes me excited for Mesmer more than Ranger.. (Just go and see the Soulbeast changes and you will see how privileged you guys are by all these changes).

Some people will never be satisfied I guess, I'm excited though

If you're just looking at the amount of changes, you're doing it wrong. You have to analyze and compare the initial and later state.

Mirage was, by far, the worst elite ever developed. Such amount of changes should not be welcomed, it was mandatory for anet to do them. Anything less than what we got would mean a disappointment for consumers on how anet delivered content.Now Mirage is in a better spot, but there're still many things to fix and improve. Again, if anet thinks these changes are enough, they are wrong. Further changes are required.

It doesn't matter how many changes are required, if anet needs to spend a month fully dedicated to fix a thing, it's their duty to do so.And our duty is to ask them to keep improving until Mirage is a solid specialization worth to buy the expansion.

Personally, I havent bought PoF expansion yet, solely based on how disappointed I was with Mirage, and I won't buy it until I see Mirage is worth to be played.

[Velektrian.5491]

@GWMO.4785 said:Nice! The changes makes me stoked to get my hands on mirage even more. Tho a few things i do not understand. As such i would like to point it out

"Ether Barrage: Removed shadowstep. Lowered damage per strike by 35%. You can now move while activating this skill."Here i can understand that the shadowstep has been removed duo to balancing. But given that Mirage is a condi/hybrid spec. The skill applies confusion and torment. Both not that great in pve. It did not specify that the changes are pvp/wvw only either... so why the damage nerf?

"Jaunt: Increased range from 400 to 450."As mentioned by many. It would be nice if this skill had a 600 range

"Self-Deception: Now creates a clone if you have at least 1 illusion."Do we still need to to use a deception skill to trigger this. or does it auto proc when ever we have an illusion up?

"Distorted Desert: This trait causes all illusions shattered by Distortion to become Mirage Mirrors for 15 seconds. Additionally it allows allows ambush skills to be used whenever you grant yourself Distortion."Overall i like this change. What is less tho is that this only works with our F4 now. It would be nice if our other shatter skills would also grand Mirage Cloak for a shorter duration when we use this trait. Idk.. like 2 or 3 seconds perhaps?

Confusion and Torment do the same damage as bleed in PvE. Think of it like this, with sharper images and 100% crit chance, easy in raids, every ambush you can dish out effectivelly 35 bleeds with Scepter. You should be able to ambush once every few seconds (at least one every 5 seconds tops, maybe one every 3)

Perhaps that is the reason for the damage Nerf.

[Malferian.7205]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:

• Ambush: Increased window for ambush skill use after gaining mirage cloak to 1.5 seconds. Ambush skills now attempt to interrupt your current action rather than queuing. (Note that certain types of skills, such as healing skills, cannot be interrupted in this way.)

Does this not remove the entire benefit of being able to cast while dodging? (except for healing skills). Or did I read this wrong?

[Menaka.5092]

@Robert Gee.9246 said:Hi everyone, we’ve made a bunch of changes to the Mirage specialization since the demo weekend and we wanted to give you a list of all the changes prior to Path of Fire’s release.

This is pretty much what I was expecting: a few number tweaks, some fixes to the most broken stuff and a few much needed buffs (even if some fall extremely short). The problem is that they don't fix the overall clumsyness of the spec and the absolute lack of any meaningful role for it. We could already roam and 1v1, and this spec doesn't bring anything else to the table.

I regret spending so much money on crafting Astralaria.

[GWMO.4785]

@Velektrian.5491 said:Confusion and Torment do the same damage as bleed in PvE. Think of it like this, with sharper images and 100% crit chance, easy in raids, every ambush you can dish out effectivelly 35 bleeds with Scepter. You should be able to ambush once every few seconds (at least one every 5 seconds tops, maybe one every 3)

Perhaps that is the reason for the damage Nerf.

I remember confusion and torment being buffed in pve to bring it more inline with bleeding. One of the devs explicitly said it this way. But i don't recall it doing the same damage as bleeding. Especially since both condition have an active effect that deals increased damage. As far as i know base damage is still lower then bleeding. And since mobs barely move / don't attack that fast or often, confusion and torment are still not that great in pve. Hence why condi mesmer is only recommended on Mathias.

[Velektrian.5491]

@GWMO.4785 said:

@Velektrian.5491 said:Confusion and Torment do the same damage as bleed in PvE. Think of it like this, with sharper images and 100% crit chance, easy in raids, every ambush you can dish out effectivelly 35 bleeds with Scepter. You should be able to ambush once every few seconds (at least one every 5 seconds tops, maybe one every 3)

Perhaps that is the reason for the damage Nerf.

I remember confusion and torment being buffed in pve

to bring it more inline with bleeding.

One of the devs explicitly said it this way.

But i don't recall it doing the same damage as bleeding. Especially since both condition have an active effect that deals increased damage. As far as i know base damage is still lower then bleeding. And since mobs barely move / don't attack that fast or often, confusion and torment are still not that great in pve. Hence why condi mesmer is only recommended on Mathias.

Same damage in PvE with extra if they use a skill/move. Check in-game if you don't believe me.

[Skuzz.6580]

@Ansau.7326 said:Mirage was, by far, the worst elite ever developed. Such amount of changes should not be welcomed, it was mandatory for anet to do them. Anything less than what we got would mean a disappointment for consumers on how anet delivered content.Now Mirage is in a better spot, but there're still many things to fix and improve. Again, if anet thinks these changes are enough, they are wrong. Further changes are required.

It doesn't matter how many changes are required, if anet needs to spend a month fully dedicated to fix a thing, it's their duty to do so.And our duty is to ask them to keep improving until Mirage is a solid specialization worth to buy the expansion.

Personally, I havent bought PoF expansion yet, solely based on how disappointed I was with Mirage, and I won't buy it until I see Mirage is worth to be played.

I have to disagree with this.. if you mean that Mesmers were the most vocal about the shortcomings of their Elite Spec then yes, that is correct. But I looked over various Specialisation forums (as I play multiple myself) and there were a lot of debates on all of them. To give a simple example of my other favorite class: Ranger, that forum was loaded with complaints about the Soulbeast interaction with pet swaps, and how a lot of skills just don't work in beastmode, some new skills are bugged, very uninteresting traits all over the new Elite spec, an even more inferior weapon then Mirage's Axe. And this is the same for basically all Elite specs. I think Deadeye, Scourge and Engineers were overall the most 'happy', the rest were just all disappointing.

If you then look at the amount of attention they put on each, you'll notice that Mirage got by far the most attention, while as an Elite spec I think Mirage was still better than others on the list.Just be pleased about the attention you guys got is what i'm trying to say.

[Xyonon.3987]

@FJSAMA.2867 said:You forgot that using axe2 will replace a phantasm. So its more like 2 duelists and a bad clone. Oh well... Seems using this for the whirl finisher is a no no.

Considering the current axe skills, the scepter will be way stronger and still be the main condi weapon for the encounters where cMes is currently used. Both, Matthias and Cairn, are very bad enemies to use an axe.

@Ojimaru.8970 said:Even at baseline, I don't see how Infinite Horizon would benefit PVE Condi DPS. In the current Condi Mesmer build, nearly half the build's damage comes from Bleeds generated by Phantasmal Duelists, and I don't see that changing with the Mirage.

Why would you keep the current cMes build with a completly new mechanic / trait line? You barely gain anything by replacing Chaos with Mirage except for the Ambush. Mirage dps could work with Chaos/Illu/Mirage, axe or scepter with torch and staff. Main damage will then be confusion and torment with a gameplay consisting of ambush/shatter/reproduce, repeat.

@mortrialus.3062 said:Infinite Horizon is a red herring. It is not there to increase your damage, very explicitly. It's there to make you harder to out from your clones, not to make Ambush Attacks do more damage.

... by increasing your ambush damage by up to 300%? No. I don't think so.

[Menaka.5092]

So, even if you aren't happy with the result, just know that Anet took our feedback and complaints about the class's design seriously. They may not have acted on them, but they definitely gave mirage the most updates out of any gen2 elite spec. Which is heartening.

I appreciate they took the time to try to salvage Mirage, but it's simply too little, too late. In my opinion they should have announced the expansion earlier, and they should have had at least another beta event in June to have enough time to work on the elite specs with the feedback from players.

[zealex.9410]

I think reducing the dmg of the scepter ambush is unfair considering how easy it is to dodge it. Also the more it gets nerfed the more likely it is it wont be useful in pve but i dought that since its a free action when you dodge an aoe or something. Still id love high dmg on the amvbush skills, would make the overall feel more impactful.

Also does the cahnge to gs ambush firing all 3 beams now means in 1 target scenarios u will hit him with all beams now?

[FaboBabo.3581]

how does the ambush cast time interacts with blurred Frenzy? Will i get the 1,5 seconds ambush time AFTER distortion ends/ while im in distortion + 1,5 sec after distortion ends, or simply 1,5 sec after i get distortion, therefore not usabale with BF?

[FJSAMA.2867]

Blur its not distortion..Bf gives Blur.Trait doesnt proc....

Pls.. We are in 2017....