WvW restructure will fail if you do not balance defensive power

[Civilis.2547]

@Rampage.7145 said:

If matchamking works properly you will jsut get matched up against a more suitable enemy and you will be able to have your fun, you dont need to face the top dogs to have fun in WvW, unless you activelly work towards becoming a top dog recruit and train people guilds and all that. Score should reflect the overall balance of the match if u dont have the numbers u should get rekt in score so the matchmaking system can work properly

You're still going to get wrecked in score if you're outnumbered, even if you hold the two keeps (EBG and your borderlands garrison). There are 12 keeps and 24 towers in WvW. If a server can hold their side of EBG and the top half of their borderlands, that's 2 keeps and 6 towers. The other two servers should have each around 5 keeps and 9 towers, plus trading SMC. Any viable matchmaking can tell that the 2k 6t server is weaker than the 5k 9t servers, and will reshuffle it appropriately.

Eliminating the ability to effectively defend means outnumbered teams get spawncamped. That's incredibly bad for people that want to see more players in WvW.

[Stand The Wall.6987]

this is why coverage is so important because you can whittle down supply for your servers bigger groups later on

[Israel.7056]

@Baldrick.8967 said:

@Israel.7056 said:

@Baldrick.8967 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:

@"MUDse.7623" said:

all those defensive 'gimmicks' as you name them actually make it more interesting. else you would have one fight and then the losing team will just logg off cause they cant even use the envoirement to even the match and make for more interesting fights.

They don't make the game more interesting for the team that can't do anything to find a fight, they also dont make the game interesting for the team that is fighting 10 ACs 2 shields 2 catapults trying to PVD a door while the whole enemy blob is just sitting inside, i mean defending outnumbered is a thing but this all collapses when this defensive gimmicks are used by a team just as large as the atacking force is, defending should be done by man power honestly. If you dont have the mampower u should lose and u should lose baddy so you get matched up vs lower populated worlds (assuming matchmaking is fixed ofc). It makes no sense that a team that has 20 people online have 3 T3 keeps generating points while a team that has 120 has the same ammount generating the same points, in this case both teams are actually having a bad time here both getting bored. So unless the 20 man team can actually kill that 100 man team on a real fight there should be no reasson for this matchup to exist, low pop team should be loosing bad not scoring near the same points, in order for the matchmaking system to give them a more balanced enemy.

For someone who claims to have so much experience you seem to have, you seem to be completely lacking in tactics or any sort of strategic thinking, other than 'rub face on door with 50 people' then moan when it doesn't work.

If the whole enemy blob is sitting inside one target, attack several targets at once.

Have a small havoc team set up siege to take out the defensive siege in other places while you draw all the enemy away to another tower/keep.

Trebs from afar on a different objective whilst you keep the enemy tied up defending where you are, wiping out all their defences.

Get 2/3 people to set up catapults at different targets- they might get discovered but in the meantime they might do 200-300 supplies of damage to the wall, or wipe several ac, etc.

If they only have 20 people online they aren't going to come out and fight your entire zone blob- that would be just stupid. However, if you engaged your brain you'd quickly realise that the cannot defend everything at once, and that is your real advantage. Your disadvantage is that having trained a zerg of brain dead zombies to follow you and only do what you say (as it leads to most loot bags/easy p6 particiaption) is asking people to then think and split off to go and do something that might get them less rewards might be too much of a challenge- especially as if half the zerg is your guild, you'll probably ask the 'pugs' to go do it as it's beneath your guildies...

Just because you struggle against well organised defence doesn't mean it should be removed from the game so you can press the 'i win' button.

1. If attackers can split up so can defenders and it only takes about 5-10 people to defend pretty much anything if they know what they're doing.
2. No one can be bothered with this because it's boring.
3. No one can be bothered with this because it's boring.
4. No one can be bothered with this because it's boring.
5. If they really only have 20 people online then they should lose all their stuff.
6. Everyone struggles against "well organized defense" aka siege humping and it makes the game slower and less action oriented as a result.

Clearly your very narrow minded in your thinking. For many servers they would love to have 20 people online a lot of the time!

Your answer is basically 'we have more numbers we should auto-win'. You might think actually using some tactics is boring, but without them you are creating your own mess and then complaining about it.

Clearly thinking or adopting tactics to suit the situation is beyond you. It's not boring to have to think of ways to win other than 'we have more players we should always win'.

Cut out defence and you would have literally no one to fight. Put yourself in their shoes. Without defence, why would they bother trying to hold off your zone blob?

If you can't stand not having enough people to fight, then move servers with 5 like minded people and look for easier fights.

First of all yes if one force is drastically outnumbered they should lose everything. The problem is that at present the larger force can then upgrade everything and then log off.

If they removed upgrades and toned down the siege then all it would take is for another group to log in and take everything back. That would be a lot more dynamic and fun.

Right now a skeleton crew can turtle upgraded objectives for hours and stall the game out. The pace of the game has become very slow and as a result it's a much less entertaining game than it used to be.

I believe this is one of the fundamental reasons why the game has lost so many players; it's too slow and you spend too much time dealing with siege rather than fighting players.

The defense is the reason why there are less people to fight. The more defense they add the fewer people there will be to fight.

[Swagger.1459]

@Rampage.7145 said:Ok so i decided to post this since looks like Arenanet is finally going to address that population problems i figured why not telling them what my and many of my friends perspective is about the real WvW problems, as a long time commander and guild driver on NA servers , played WvW since beta, 10k rank 700k+ kills 10k hours in WvW alone, etc, etc 10k+ hours, i believe one of the main and most cancerous problems of WvW right now, apart form the flawed matchmaking system is the siege and defensive power granted to players with all this new gimmicks (tactivators) that do nothing positive for the game but make it boring and slow and action lackcluster.

I am going to point out the problem starting from a pugmander's perspective and how this affects the whole WvW dynamic from the biggest of the blobs up to the solo roamers. So i have a big blob enemy has a big blob i decide to push a T3 keep, the defending team will sit inside the whole time building siege repairing walls pulling tactivators with a massive blob this means it would take me 2-3 hours at best to crack that thing open and get a fight at lord's room that will maybe last 15-20 mins. So i spent 3 hours of my day fighting a walla and 1 door to get a15 min fight in the lords room win or lose, this is a terrible desing flaw, no commander will do this for long time it is such a boring thing to do people will just get burned out very fast from it and quit. After pugmanders quit the guilds that used to fight that pugmander out pure fun they will also get bored and quit, the guilds/individuals that defend and upgrade stuff will also quit cuz nobody is trying to take their structures anymore and everything is T3 24/7, the roamers who would gank people trying to take structures or running yaks or running back to the commanders will also quit, cuz there is nobody doing those things anymore, and this in the end is death spiral that kills WvW as a whole.

I remember when u could warrior banner the lord for example or port into lords room every 2 mins, that would keep fights alive for way longer then 15 mins a fight at SMC lords room would take hours, those were the time where u could also break in using omegas in 2 mins, so you would open up a structure very fast and get a massive fights in the lords room for hours, defenders could keep warbannering the lords indefinitelly and people porting inside constantly would keep the fight going for so long, this was a very good thing very action packed, very fun, intense and rewarding for everyone involved. Those were the golden years of pugmanding full of real PvP action. We need to go back to those days WvW needs to be a dynamic enviorment keeps tower need to be papered constantly in order for people have something to do with their playtime other than sitting on a T3 keep and wait for something to happen.

So my suggestions to fix WvW as a whole and make it fun again would be the following:

1. T3 gates need to be reworked for way lower health/armor please remove t3 gates all together.
2. Make upgrades manual (free silver cost) again, this is huge requires a lot of work and it is much more satisfactory for defenders/upgraders to have it this way in order to keep em busy andoing their thing
3. Reduce siege AC damage or make em work like catapults where u have to aim and charge up the shots, Acs sucks nobody wants to fight Acs pls, NOBODY period.
4. Make lords inside keeps/tores insta revivable again and go back to the old waypoint system that will allow defenders to port back every 2 mins. This is huge to keep fights alive and requires strategy form defenders and atackers to deal with also allow solo players to feel more important since a solo guy can sacrifice himself to ress the lord for example and feel he is contributing on a big way to the fight.
5. Encourage fights overall make kills more relevant, KDR is important but i feel PPK affects WvW in a negative way i think, make KDR stats show up, even cool stuff like killstreaks showing on the screen (MOOOONSTER KILL BABY!), squad kills/deaths counters etc, but do not make em impact the score since this makes people turn away from fights sometimes just cuz they don't wanna ¨feed¨ the other server, and that is a terrible thing if anything u should be rewardsd for kills on a personal way like maybe giving u items or extra bags per killstreaks but do not punish the people who die and disencourage them from engaging alltogether.

To finish i just wanna say that this post is probably going to get a lot of hate from those people that want to defend a keep from 30 guys with 5, but lets face it guys there is no reasson whatsoever why u should keep your structures if you are outnumbered like that honestly, and just imagine what happens and how bad it gets when u have 30 guys trying to take a keep/tower and there is 40 people inside using siege, it is just very boring for everyone involved. Currently 5 people can make 30-40 man blob to back off a tower and that is pretty stupid i think defensive power needs to be turned down to 1/2 ratio 1 defender per 2 atackers kinda thing at most. This will definitelly make WvW a more changing enviorment more dynamic and more fun for eveyone that just having everything T3ed 24/7. Going with alliances is a good start but there is just so much more WvW desperatly needs to be fun and enagaging again.

You have all that experience, yet you haven’t pointed to any real issues. All you ideas do is make it easier for attackers to take structures, and that certainly won’t make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

Also, fights happen all the time and individual players are rewarded for winning those fights. “Extra bags” would be inconsequential.

[Israel.7056]

@Swagger.1459 said:All you ideas do is make it easier for attackers to take structures, and that certainly won’t make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

Yes it will.

[Swagger.1459]

@Israel.7056 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:All you ideas do is make it easier for attackers to take structures, and that certainly won’t make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

Yes it will.

Yeah no... That only serves to screw over defenders, it doesn’t address the real issues with this game and game mode.

[Rampage.7145]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:Ok so i decided to post this since looks like Arenanet is finally going to address that population problems i figured why not telling them what my and many of my friends perspective is about the real WvW problems, as a long time commander and guild driver on NA servers , played WvW since beta, 10k rank 700k+ kills 10k hours in WvW alone, etc, etc 10k+ hours, i believe one of the main and most cancerous problems of WvW right now, apart form the flawed matchmaking system is the siege and defensive power granted to players with all this new gimmicks (tactivators) that do nothing positive for the game but make it boring and slow and action lackcluster.

I am going to point out the problem starting from a pugmander's perspective and how this affects the whole WvW dynamic from the biggest of the blobs up to the solo roamers. So i have a big blob enemy has a big blob i decide to push a T3 keep, the defending team will sit inside the whole time building siege repairing walls pulling tactivators with a massive blob this means it would take me 2-3 hours at best to crack that thing open and get a fight at lord's room that will maybe last 15-20 mins. So i spent 3 hours of my day fighting a walla and 1 door to get a15 min fight in the lords room win or lose, this is a terrible desing flaw, no commander will do this for long time it is such a boring thing to do people will just get burned out very fast from it and quit. After pugmanders quit the guilds that used to fight that pugmander out pure fun they will also get bored and quit, the guilds/individuals that defend and upgrade stuff will also quit cuz nobody is trying to take their structures anymore and everything is T3 24/7, the roamers who would gank people trying to take structures or running yaks or running back to the commanders will also quit, cuz there is nobody doing those things anymore, and this in the end is death spiral that kills WvW as a whole.

I remember when u could warrior banner the lord for example or port into lords room every 2 mins, that would keep fights alive for way longer then 15 mins a fight at SMC lords room would take hours, those were the time where u could also break in using omegas in 2 mins, so you would open up a structure very fast and get a massive fights in the lords room for hours, defenders could keep warbannering the lords indefinitelly and people porting inside constantly would keep the fight going for so long, this was a very good thing very action packed, very fun, intense and rewarding for everyone involved. Those were the golden years of pugmanding full of real PvP action. We need to go back to those days WvW needs to be a dynamic enviorment keeps tower need to be papered constantly in order for people have something to do with their playtime other than sitting on a T3 keep and wait for something to happen.

So my suggestions to fix WvW as a whole and make it fun again would be the following:

1. T3 gates need to be reworked for way lower health/armor please remove t3 gates all together.
2. Make upgrades manual (free silver cost) again, this is huge requires a lot of work and it is much more satisfactory for defenders/upgraders to have it this way in order to keep em busy andoing their thing
3. Reduce siege AC damage or make em work like catapults where u have to aim and charge up the shots, Acs sucks nobody wants to fight Acs pls, NOBODY period.
4. Make lords inside keeps/tores insta revivable again and go back to the old waypoint system that will allow defenders to port back every 2 mins. This is huge to keep fights alive and requires strategy form defenders and atackers to deal with also allow solo players to feel more important since a solo guy can sacrifice himself to ress the lord for example and feel he is contributing on a big way to the fight.
5. Encourage fights overall make kills more relevant, KDR is important but i feel PPK affects WvW in a negative way i think, make KDR stats show up, even cool stuff like killstreaks showing on the screen (MOOOONSTER KILL BABY!), squad kills/deaths counters etc, but do not make em impact the score since this makes people turn away from fights sometimes just cuz they don't wanna ¨feed¨ the other server, and that is a terrible thing if anything u should be rewardsd for kills on a personal way like maybe giving u items or extra bags per killstreaks but do not punish the people who die and disencourage them from engaging alltogether.

To finish i just wanna say that this post is probably going to get a lot of hate from those people that want to defend a keep from 30 guys with 5, but lets face it guys there is no reasson whatsoever why u should keep your structures if you are outnumbered like that honestly, and just imagine what happens and how bad it gets when u have 30 guys trying to take a keep/tower and there is 40 people inside using siege, it is just very boring for everyone involved. Currently 5 people can make 30-40 man blob to back off a tower and that is pretty stupid i think defensive power needs to be turned down to 1/2 ratio 1 defender per 2 atackers kinda thing at most. This will definitelly make WvW a more changing enviorment more dynamic and more fun for eveyone that just having everything T3ed 24/7. Going with alliances is a good start but there is just so much more WvW desperatly needs to be fun and enagaging again.

You have all that experience, yet you haven’t pointed to any real issues. All you ideas do is make it easier for attackers to take structures, and that certainly won’t make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

Also, fights happen all the time and individual players are rewarded for winning those fights. “Extra bags” would be inconsequential.

Oh please point out those issues, cuz as long i remember at least if you read the whole thing i posted some issues (and 5 possible solutions) from a pugmander POV with repercussions on guilds/defenders/roamers, but please join the discussion point out the real issues of WvW

[Israel.7056]

@Swagger.1459 said:Yeah no... That only serves to screw over defenders, it doesn’t address the real issues with this game and game mode.

Yes it does the real issue with this game mode is that it's become incredibly slow and boring and you spend more time having to worry about obnoxious gimmicks, upgraded objectives and siege rather than fighting players.

BTW it only screws over defenders who defend by building endless siege and turtling it wouldn't prevent anyone from actually fighting in order to defend something.

[Swagger.1459]

@Rampage.7145 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:Ok so i decided to post this since looks like Arenanet is finally going to address that population problems i figured why not telling them what my and many of my friends perspective is about the real WvW problems, as a long time commander and guild driver on NA servers , played WvW since beta, 10k rank 700k+ kills 10k hours in WvW alone, etc, etc 10k+ hours, i believe one of the main and most cancerous problems of WvW right now, apart form the flawed matchmaking system is the siege and defensive power granted to players with all this new gimmicks (tactivators) that do nothing positive for the game but make it boring and slow and action lackcluster.

I am going to point out the problem starting from a pugmander's perspective and how this affects the whole WvW dynamic from the biggest of the blobs up to the solo roamers. So i have a big blob enemy has a big blob i decide to push a T3 keep, the defending team will sit inside the whole time building siege repairing walls pulling tactivators with a massive blob this means it would take me 2-3 hours at best to crack that thing open and get a fight at lord's room that will maybe last 15-20 mins. So i spent 3 hours of my day fighting a walla and 1 door to get a15 min fight in the lords room win or lose, this is a terrible desing flaw, no commander will do this for long time it is such a boring thing to do people will just get burned out very fast from it and quit. After pugmanders quit the guilds that used to fight that pugmander out pure fun they will also get bored and quit, the guilds/individuals that defend and upgrade stuff will also quit cuz nobody is trying to take their structures anymore and everything is T3 24/7, the roamers who would gank people trying to take structures or running yaks or running back to the commanders will also quit, cuz there is nobody doing those things anymore, and this in the end is death spiral that kills WvW as a whole.

I remember when u could warrior banner the lord for example or port into lords room every 2 mins, that would keep fights alive for way longer then 15 mins a fight at SMC lords room would take hours, those were the time where u could also break in using omegas in 2 mins, so you would open up a structure very fast and get a massive fights in the lords room for hours, defenders could keep warbannering the lords indefinitelly and people porting inside constantly would keep the fight going for so long, this was a very good thing very action packed, very fun, intense and rewarding for everyone involved. Those were the golden years of pugmanding full of real PvP action. We need to go back to those days WvW needs to be a dynamic enviorment keeps tower need to be papered constantly in order for people have something to do with their playtime other than sitting on a T3 keep and wait for something to happen.

So my suggestions to fix WvW as a whole and make it fun again would be the following:

1. T3 gates need to be reworked for way lower health/armor please remove t3 gates all together.
2. Make upgrades manual (free silver cost) again, this is huge requires a lot of work and it is much more satisfactory for defenders/upgraders to have it this way in order to keep em busy andoing their thing
3. Reduce siege AC damage or make em work like catapults where u have to aim and charge up the shots, Acs sucks nobody wants to fight Acs pls, NOBODY period.
4. Make lords inside keeps/tores insta revivable again and go back to the old waypoint system that will allow defenders to port back every 2 mins. This is huge to keep fights alive and requires strategy form defenders and atackers to deal with also allow solo players to feel more important since a solo guy can sacrifice himself to ress the lord for example and feel he is contributing on a big way to the fight.
5. Encourage fights overall make kills more relevant, KDR is important but i feel PPK affects WvW in a negative way i think, make KDR stats show up, even cool stuff like killstreaks showing on the screen (MOOOONSTER KILL BABY!), squad kills/deaths counters etc, but do not make em impact the score since this makes people turn away from fights sometimes just cuz they don't wanna ¨feed¨ the other server, and that is a terrible thing if anything u should be rewardsd for kills on a personal way like maybe giving u items or extra bags per killstreaks but do not punish the people who die and disencourage them from engaging alltogether.

To finish i just wanna say that this post is probably going to get a lot of hate from those people that want to defend a keep from 30 guys with 5, but lets face it guys there is no reasson whatsoever why u should keep your structures if you are outnumbered like that honestly, and just imagine what happens and how bad it gets when u have 30 guys trying to take a keep/tower and there is 40 people inside using siege, it is just very boring for everyone involved. Currently 5 people can make 30-40 man blob to back off a tower and that is pretty stupid i think defensive power needs to be turned down to 1/2 ratio 1 defender per 2 atackers kinda thing at most. This will definitelly make WvW a more changing enviorment more dynamic and more fun for eveyone that just having everything T3ed 24/7. Going with alliances is a good start but there is just so much more WvW desperatly needs to be fun and enagaging again.

You have all that experience, yet you haven’t pointed to any real issues. All you ideas do is make it easier for attackers to take structures, and that certainly won’t make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

Also, fights happen all the time and individual players are rewarded for winning those fights. “Extra bags” would be inconsequential.

Oh please point out those issues, cuz as long i remember at least if you read the whole thing i posted some issues (and 5 possible solutions) from a pugmander POV with repercussions on guilds/defenders/roamers, but please join the discussion point out the real issues of WvW

Sure... Let’s talk about the real issues instead since your goal is to make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

-GW2 game engine can’t handle mass combat. Lag makes this mode extremely unattractive. By contrast, CU has an engine that, iirc, can handle up to 300v300v300 battling in the same space while still maintaining around 30fps. EO just announced they are putting $3,000,000 in upgrades so mass battles can handle up to 6,000 individual players...

-Professions here are designed, balanced and maintained for PvE first. MO clearly stated that he was looking for “balance wins that don’t screw over pve”. The devs will not devote the resources to improving professions and combat for competitive gameplay. Meanwhile, a game like CU will have 30 unique and highly customizable classes built and designed for RvR gameplay.

-Same stale maps (aside from dbl), objectives and gameplay mechanics that we’ve had since launch... Go ahead and take a look at what CU will offer.

-Purchasable and earnable rewards are still lacking, despite the recent reward updates.

...I’m sure I could think of a few more, but if you think that making it easier for players to take structures, and niggling over earning extra bags, will make wvw “fun and engaging again” then you are not looking deep enough.

[Lobo Dela Noche.5127]

I would love for it to go back to the manual activated upgrades with a supply cost. Having a supply cost meant that it might be a bad move to activate an upgrade as it drains all the supply. So you had to be tactical with it. I actually liked the money cost also as it gave incentive to hold something but I do realize how much that cost added up and the game mode did not support it. Maybe if it was dropped to 50% or 25% of what it used to be.

I do think that a tier 3 structure should be hard to take especially if they took the time to siege it up. A hand full of competent players should be able to hold out against a slightly larger group. A 20 man zerg should have no issues against 5 though.

[Israel.7056]

Also remove Iron Guards and Hardened Siege

[Rampage.7145]

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:Ok so i decided to post this since looks like Arenanet is finally going to address that population problems i figured why not telling them what my and many of my friends perspective is about the real WvW problems, as a long time commander and guild driver on NA servers , played WvW since beta, 10k rank 700k+ kills 10k hours in WvW alone, etc, etc 10k+ hours, i believe one of the main and most cancerous problems of WvW right now, apart form the flawed matchmaking system is the siege and defensive power granted to players with all this new gimmicks (tactivators) that do nothing positive for the game but make it boring and slow and action lackcluster.

I am going to point out the problem starting from a pugmander's perspective and how this affects the whole WvW dynamic from the biggest of the blobs up to the solo roamers. So i have a big blob enemy has a big blob i decide to push a T3 keep, the defending team will sit inside the whole time building siege repairing walls pulling tactivators with a massive blob this means it would take me 2-3 hours at best to crack that thing open and get a fight at lord's room that will maybe last 15-20 mins. So i spent 3 hours of my day fighting a walla and 1 door to get a15 min fight in the lords room win or lose, this is a terrible desing flaw, no commander will do this for long time it is such a boring thing to do people will just get burned out very fast from it and quit. After pugmanders quit the guilds that used to fight that pugmander out pure fun they will also get bored and quit, the guilds/individuals that defend and upgrade stuff will also quit cuz nobody is trying to take their structures anymore and everything is T3 24/7, the roamers who would gank people trying to take structures or running yaks or running back to the commanders will also quit, cuz there is nobody doing those things anymore, and this in the end is death spiral that kills WvW as a whole.

I remember when u could warrior banner the lord for example or port into lords room every 2 mins, that would keep fights alive for way longer then 15 mins a fight at SMC lords room would take hours, those were the time where u could also break in using omegas in 2 mins, so you would open up a structure very fast and get a massive fights in the lords room for hours, defenders could keep warbannering the lords indefinitelly and people porting inside constantly would keep the fight going for so long, this was a very good thing very action packed, very fun, intense and rewarding for everyone involved. Those were the golden years of pugmanding full of real PvP action. We need to go back to those days WvW needs to be a dynamic enviorment keeps tower need to be papered constantly in order for people have something to do with their playtime other than sitting on a T3 keep and wait for something to happen.

So my suggestions to fix WvW as a whole and make it fun again would be the following:

1. T3 gates need to be reworked for way lower health/armor please remove t3 gates all together.
2. Make upgrades manual (free silver cost) again, this is huge requires a lot of work and it is much more satisfactory for defenders/upgraders to have it this way in order to keep em busy andoing their thing
3. Reduce siege AC damage or make em work like catapults where u have to aim and charge up the shots, Acs sucks nobody wants to fight Acs pls, NOBODY period.
4. Make lords inside keeps/tores insta revivable again and go back to the old waypoint system that will allow defenders to port back every 2 mins. This is huge to keep fights alive and requires strategy form defenders and atackers to deal with also allow solo players to feel more important since a solo guy can sacrifice himself to ress the lord for example and feel he is contributing on a big way to the fight.
5. Encourage fights overall make kills more relevant, KDR is important but i feel PPK affects WvW in a negative way i think, make KDR stats show up, even cool stuff like killstreaks showing on the screen (MOOOONSTER KILL BABY!), squad kills/deaths counters etc, but do not make em impact the score since this makes people turn away from fights sometimes just cuz they don't wanna ¨feed¨ the other server, and that is a terrible thing if anything u should be rewardsd for kills on a personal way like maybe giving u items or extra bags per killstreaks but do not punish the people who die and disencourage them from engaging alltogether.

To finish i just wanna say that this post is probably going to get a lot of hate from those people that want to defend a keep from 30 guys with 5, but lets face it guys there is no reasson whatsoever why u should keep your structures if you are outnumbered like that honestly, and just imagine what happens and how bad it gets when u have 30 guys trying to take a keep/tower and there is 40 people inside using siege, it is just very boring for everyone involved. Currently 5 people can make 30-40 man blob to back off a tower and that is pretty stupid i think defensive power needs to be turned down to 1/2 ratio 1 defender per 2 atackers kinda thing at most. This will definitelly make WvW a more changing enviorment more dynamic and more fun for eveyone that just having everything T3ed 24/7. Going with alliances is a good start but there is just so much more WvW desperatly needs to be fun and enagaging again.

You have all that experience, yet you haven’t pointed to any real issues. All you ideas do is make it easier for attackers to take structures, and that certainly won’t make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

Also, fights happen all the time and individual players are rewarded for winning those fights. “Extra bags” would be inconsequential.

Oh please point out those issues, cuz as long i remember at least if you read the whole thing i posted some issues (and 5 possible solutions) from a pugmander POV with repercussions on guilds/defenders/roamers, but please join the discussion point out the real issues of WvW

Sure... Let’s talk about the real issues instead since your goal is to make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

-GW2 game engine can’t handle mass combat. Lag makes this mode extremely unattractive. By contrast, CU has an engine that, iirc, can handle up to 300v300v300 battling in the same space while still maintaining around 30fps. EO just announced they are putting $3,000,000 in upgrades so mass battles can handle up to 6,000 individual players...

Ok lets be realistic this will not change at this point bro, wake up, not happening man, this would require massive work, not thta it really matters people always had fun in this game back in the day at 15 FPS, sure it is no ideal but nobody really cares.

-Professions here are designed, balanced and maintained for PvE first. MO clearly stated that he was looking for “balance wins that don’t screw over pve”. The devs will not devote the resources to improving professions and combat for competitive gameplay. Meanwhile, a game like CU will have 30 unique and highly customizable classes built and designed for RvR gameplay.

this has always been the case yet, it would be nice have our own WvW focused skill balance, it is not really a game breaker for most people/guilds, people will just play the meta in the whatever that means

-Same stale maps (aside from dbl), objectives and gameplay mechanics that we’ve had since launch... Go ahead and take a look at what CU will offer.

I addressed this with my post, stale maps exist because capturing an objective is not rewarding but boring and pointless, in fact my whole post is about shis problem u should actually stop and read before posting next time.

-Purchasable and earable rewards are still lacking, despite the recent reward updates.

Rewards are completely secondary on a MMO, look a LOL, PUBG, DOTA, they are the most played games because they are fun not because the rewards are awesome, u design a game with good addictive and fun gameplay and players will flock to it even if not only isnt rewarded at all, players will flock to a good game even if they have to pay for it, cuz the real reward in gaming is the good times, memories and experiences u have with your friends, not in game items, those are just bits on a system that will be gone sooner or later while your memories will not.

...I’m sure I could think of a few more, but if you think that making it easier for players to take structures, and niggling over earning extra bags, will make wvw “fun and engaging again” then you are not looking deep enough.i am waiting...

[Arimas.3492]

Removing the shield generator would be a big step in the right direction. The amount of time it takes to successfully siege an objective increased a large amount due to the implementation of the shield gen.

[Swagger.1459]

@Rampage.7145 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:Ok so i decided to post this since looks like Arenanet is finally going to address that population problems i figured why not telling them what my and many of my friends perspective is about the real WvW problems, as a long time commander and guild driver on NA servers , played WvW since beta, 10k rank 700k+ kills 10k hours in WvW alone, etc, etc 10k+ hours, i believe one of the main and most cancerous problems of WvW right now, apart form the flawed matchmaking system is the siege and defensive power granted to players with all this new gimmicks (tactivators) that do nothing positive for the game but make it boring and slow and action lackcluster.

I am going to point out the problem starting from a pugmander's perspective and how this affects the whole WvW dynamic from the biggest of the blobs up to the solo roamers. So i have a big blob enemy has a big blob i decide to push a T3 keep, the defending team will sit inside the whole time building siege repairing walls pulling tactivators with a massive blob this means it would take me 2-3 hours at best to crack that thing open and get a fight at lord's room that will maybe last 15-20 mins. So i spent 3 hours of my day fighting a walla and 1 door to get a15 min fight in the lords room win or lose, this is a terrible desing flaw, no commander will do this for long time it is such a boring thing to do people will just get burned out very fast from it and quit. After pugmanders quit the guilds that used to fight that pugmander out pure fun they will also get bored and quit, the guilds/individuals that defend and upgrade stuff will also quit cuz nobody is trying to take their structures anymore and everything is T3 24/7, the roamers who would gank people trying to take structures or running yaks or running back to the commanders will also quit, cuz there is nobody doing those things anymore, and this in the end is death spiral that kills WvW as a whole.

I remember when u could warrior banner the lord for example or port into lords room every 2 mins, that would keep fights alive for way longer then 15 mins a fight at SMC lords room would take hours, those were the time where u could also break in using omegas in 2 mins, so you would open up a structure very fast and get a massive fights in the lords room for hours, defenders could keep warbannering the lords indefinitelly and people porting inside constantly would keep the fight going for so long, this was a very good thing very action packed, very fun, intense and rewarding for everyone involved. Those were the golden years of pugmanding full of real PvP action. We need to go back to those days WvW needs to be a dynamic enviorment keeps tower need to be papered constantly in order for people have something to do with their playtime other than sitting on a T3 keep and wait for something to happen.

So my suggestions to fix WvW as a whole and make it fun again would be the following:

1. T3 gates need to be reworked for way lower health/armor please remove t3 gates all together.
2. Make upgrades manual (free silver cost) again, this is huge requires a lot of work and it is much more satisfactory for defenders/upgraders to have it this way in order to keep em busy andoing their thing
3. Reduce siege AC damage or make em work like catapults where u have to aim and charge up the shots, Acs sucks nobody wants to fight Acs pls, NOBODY period.
4. Make lords inside keeps/tores insta revivable again and go back to the old waypoint system that will allow defenders to port back every 2 mins. This is huge to keep fights alive and requires strategy form defenders and atackers to deal with also allow solo players to feel more important since a solo guy can sacrifice himself to ress the lord for example and feel he is contributing on a big way to the fight.
5. Encourage fights overall make kills more relevant, KDR is important but i feel PPK affects WvW in a negative way i think, make KDR stats show up, even cool stuff like killstreaks showing on the screen (MOOOONSTER KILL BABY!), squad kills/deaths counters etc, but do not make em impact the score since this makes people turn away from fights sometimes just cuz they don't wanna ¨feed¨ the other server, and that is a terrible thing if anything u should be rewardsd for kills on a personal way like maybe giving u items or extra bags per killstreaks but do not punish the people who die and disencourage them from engaging alltogether.

To finish i just wanna say that this post is probably going to get a lot of hate from those people that want to defend a keep from 30 guys with 5, but lets face it guys there is no reasson whatsoever why u should keep your structures if you are outnumbered like that honestly, and just imagine what happens and how bad it gets when u have 30 guys trying to take a keep/tower and there is 40 people inside using siege, it is just very boring for everyone involved. Currently 5 people can make 30-40 man blob to back off a tower and that is pretty stupid i think defensive power needs to be turned down to 1/2 ratio 1 defender per 2 atackers kinda thing at most. This will definitelly make WvW a more changing enviorment more dynamic and more fun for eveyone that just having everything T3ed 24/7. Going with alliances is a good start but there is just so much more WvW desperatly needs to be fun and enagaging again.

You have all that experience, yet you haven’t pointed to any real issues. All you ideas do is make it easier for attackers to take structures, and that certainly won’t make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

Also, fights happen all the time and individual players are rewarded for winning those fights. “Extra bags” would be inconsequential.

Oh please point out those issues, cuz as long i remember at least if you read the whole thing i posted some issues (and 5 possible solutions) from a pugmander POV with repercussions on guilds/defenders/roamers, but please join the discussion point out the real issues of WvW

Sure... Let’s talk about the real issues instead since your goal is to make wvw “fun and engaging again”.

-GW2 game engine can’t handle mass combat. Lag makes this mode extremely unattractive. By contrast, CU has an engine that, iirc, can handle up to 300v300v300 battling in the same space while still maintaining around 30fps. EO just announced they are putting $3,000,000 in upgrades so mass battles can handle up to 6,000 individual players...

Ok lets be realistic this will not change at this point bro, wake up, not happening man, this would require massive work, not thta it really matters people always had fun in this game back in the day at 15 FPS, sure it is no ideal but nobody really cares.

-Professions here are designed, balanced and maintained for PvE first. MO clearly stated that he was looking for “balance wins that don’t screw over pve”. The devs will not devote the resources to improving professions and combat for competitive gameplay. Meanwhile, a game like CU will have 30 unique and highly customizable classes built and designed for RvR gameplay.

this has always been the case yet, it would be nice have our own WvW focused skill balance, it is not really a game breaker for most people/guilds, people will just play the meta in the whatever that means

-Same stale maps (aside from dbl), objectives and gameplay mechanics that we’ve had since launch... Go ahead and take a look at what CU will offer.

I addressed this with my post, stale maps exist because capturing an objective is not rewarding but boring and pointless, in fact my whole post is about shis problem u should actually stop and read before posting next time.

-Purchasable and earable rewards are still lacking, despite the recent reward updates.

Rewards are completely secondary on a MMO, look a LOL, PUBG, DOTA, they are the most played games because they are fun not because the rewards are awesome, u design a game with good addictive and fun gameplay and players will flock to it even if not only isnt rewarded at all, players will flock to a good game even if they have to pay for it, cuz the real reward in gaming is the good times, memories and experiences u have with your friends, not in game items, those are just bits on a system that will be gone sooner or later while your memories will not.

...I’m sure I could think of a few more, but if you think that making it easier for players to take structures, and niggling over earning extra bags, will make wvw “fun and engaging again” then you are not looking deep enough.i am waiting...

This rvr mode (and spvp) has had its struggles since the game launched, so perhaps Anet can spend some of that $87,000,000 earned in 2017 on making substantial improvements to the game. Instead of doing meaningless things, like you are suggesting, in preparation for the new alliances launch.

[Swagger.1459]

And here is a tip for anyone struggling to take an objective while still having superior numbers... Work on improving your commanding and tactical skills, don’t rely on the devs to change the rules and code things so it’s easier for you.

[Rampage.7145]

@Swagger.1459 said:And here is a tip for anyone struggling to take an objective while still having superior numbers... Work on improving your commanding and tactical skills, don’t rely on the devs to change the rules and code things so it’s easier for you.

LOL ok buddy, i'll keep that in mind, yet it dosnt change anything since it is not only me, nobody can take anything nowdays. I am guessing all commanders are just bad ok i got it. What is stated tho was more about going back to the old rules, i dont know at least players that played for as long as i did will probably remember how epic the game used to be, and sure part of it has to do with numbers and activity (which is a problem the devs are looking into it right now, hence why of my post), but a big part of it is also the devs making terrible design choices over the years that drove a lot of people away form the game.

[MedievalThings.5417]

Sounds like OP wants to just ktrain around the map for loot. The only thing I could see removing are shield generators, but even then, it's a numbers fight.

[Rampage.7145]

@Ubi.4136Why are ktrains so bad? i mean a Ktrain is usually a nice fight for guilds and commander to have fun trying to kill it, what is exactly wrong about ktrains? i never got that? To me a ktrain is just a juicy group i can fight and get some fun out of it for myself and people following me, why in hell is that bad?

[Brigand.9502]

Honestly this just sounds like you're upset because your PPT train got held up by a t3 keep. Use some strategy to "starve" the keep and whittle it down. It doesn't have to be all at once. Take it down in bite sized chunks while you go and run your ktrain elsewhere then circle back around for another chunk. Get other small groups to treb it for you. There's tons of ways to go about it but turning everything into an "instant gratification" situation is not improving anything.

Also, you must have missed the part in LotR where the orcs blew a giant hole in the side of the keep wall to get inside. Granted, it wasn't a trebuchet, but it might as well have been.

[MedievalThings.5417]

@Rampage.7145 said:@"Ubi.4136"Why are ktrains so bad? i mean a Ktrain is usually a nice fight for guilds and commander to have fun trying to kill it, what is exactly wrong about ktrains? i never got that? To me a ktrain is just a juicy group i can fight and get some fun out of it for myself and people following me, why in hell is that bad?

A ktrain is a 50 man blob, mowing down 10 defenders and towers over and over. Only attacking paper structures, or undefended upgraded ones, and yet everyone keeps saying they "want fights". It's bullshit. I don't care if people ktrain, but call it what it is. People want to pvdoor for free loot with little to no resistance or where their enemy stands almost no chance.

[MedievalThings.5417]

@"Brigand.9502" said:Honestly this just sounds like you're upset because your PPT train got held up by a t3 keep. Use some strategy to "starve" the keep and whittle it down. It doesn't have to be all at once. Take it down in bite sized chunks while you go and run your ktrain elsewhere then circle back around for another chunk. Get other small groups to treb it for you. There's tons of ways to go about it but turning everything into an "instant gratification" situation is not improving anything.

Also, you must have missed the part in LotR where the orcs blew a giant hole in the side of the keep wall to get inside. Granted, it wasn't a trebuchet, but it might as well have been.

This is what I would like to see more of. Actual war progression. People slowly knock down defenses piece by piece until they can finally overcome their enemy (who was on fairly even ground to start). A strategy to win, not just numbers.

[Blodeuyn.2751]

@Rampage.7145 said:@Ubi.4136Why are ktrains so bad? i mean a Ktrain is usually a nice fight for guilds and commander to have fun trying to kill it, what is exactly wrong about ktrains? i never got that? To me a ktrain is just a juicy group i can fight and get some fun out of it for myself and people following me, why in hell is that bad?

You can get your ktrain in EoTM. WvW is enjoyable for many of us because there are numerous different ways to play. I prefer having to use strategy and skill because having to think is much more rewarding for me than facerolling my keyboard and trading objectives over and over.

@Baldrick.8967 said:

For someone who claims to have so much experience you seem to have, you seem to be completely lacking in tactics or any sort of strategic thinking, other than 'rub face on door with 50 people' then moan when it doesn't work.

If the whole enemy blob is sitting inside one target, attack several targets at once.

Have a small havoc team set up siege to take out the defensive siege in other places while you draw all the enemy away to another tower/keep.

Trebs from afar on a different objective whilst you keep the enemy tied up defending where you are, wiping out all their defences.

Get 2/3 people to set up catapults at different targets- they might get discovered but in the meantime they might do 200-300 supplies of damage to the wall, or wipe several ac, etc.

If they only have 20 people online they aren't going to come out and fight your entire zone blob- that would be just stupid. However, if you engaged your brain you'd quickly realise that the cannot defend everything at once, and that is your real advantage. Your disadvantage is that having trained a zerg of brain dead zombies to follow you and only do what you say (as it leads to most loot bags/easy p6 particiaption) is asking people to then think and split off to go and do something that might get them less rewards might be too much of a challenge- especially as if half the zerg is your guild, you'll probably ask the 'pugs' to go do it as it's beneath your guildies...

Just because you struggle against well organised defence doesn't mean it should be removed from the game so you can press the 'i win' button.

^ This. You summed up what I was thinking.

[Blodeuyn.2751]

@Rampage.7145 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:And here is a tip for anyone struggling to take an objective while still having superior numbers... Work on improving your commanding and tactical skills, don’t rely on the devs to change the rules and code things so it’s easier for you.

LOL ok buddy, i'll keep that in mind, yet it dosnt change anything since it is not only me, nobody can take anything nowdays. I am guessing all commanders are just bad ok i got it. What is stated tho was more about going back to the old rules, i dont know at least players that played for as long as i did will probably remember how epic the game used to be, and sure part of it has to do with numbers and activity (which is a problem the devs are looking into it right now, hence why of my post), but a big part of it is also the devs making terrible design choices over the years that drove a lot of people away form the game.

Nobody can take anything anymore? What? My three-person group constantly takes things, including T3 keeps. Strategy matters!

[Rampage.7145]

@Blodeuyn.2751 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:@Ubi.4136Why are ktrains so bad? i mean a Ktrain is usually a nice fight for guilds and commander to have fun trying to kill it, what is exactly wrong about ktrains? i never got that? To me a ktrain is just a juicy group i can fight and get some fun out of it for myself and people following me, why in hell is that bad?

You can get your ktrain in EoTM. WvW is enjoyable for many of us because there are numerous different ways to play. I prefer having to use strategy and skill because having to think is much more rewarding for me than facerolling my keyboard and trading objectives over and over.

@Baldrick.8967 said:

For someone who claims to have so much experience you seem to have, you seem to be completely lacking in tactics or any sort of strategic thinking, other than 'rub face on door with 50 people' then moan when it doesn't work.

If the whole enemy blob is sitting inside one target, attack several targets at once.

Have a small havoc team set up siege to take out the defensive siege in other places while you draw all the enemy away to another tower/keep.

Trebs from afar on a different objective whilst you keep the enemy tied up defending where you are, wiping out all their defences.

Get 2/3 people to set up catapults at different targets- they might get discovered but in the meantime they might do 200-300 supplies of damage to the wall, or wipe several ac, etc.

If they only have 20 people online they aren't going to come out and fight your entire zone blob- that would be just stupid. However, if you engaged your brain you'd quickly realise that the cannot defend everything at once, and that is your real advantage. Your disadvantage is that having trained a zerg of brain dead zombies to follow you and only do what you say (as it leads to most loot bags/easy p6 particiaption) is asking people to then think and split off to go and do something that might get them less rewards might be too much of a challenge- especially as if half the zerg is your guild, you'll probably ask the 'pugs' to go do it as it's beneath your guildies...

Just because you struggle against well organised defence doesn't mean it should be removed from the game so you can press the 'i win' button.

I don't really ktrain i do like killing ktrains tho, ktrains means activity, that is what WvW needs right now activity. Wihtout activity is just a boring wasteland where nothing is happening

[Rampage.7145]

@Blodeuyn.2751 said:

@Rampage.7145 said:

@Swagger.1459 said:And here is a tip for anyone struggling to take an objective while still having superior numbers... Work on improving your commanding and tactical skills, don’t rely on the devs to change the rules and code things so it’s easier for you.

LOL ok buddy, i'll keep that in mind, yet it dosnt change anything since it is not only me, nobody can take anything nowdays. I am guessing all commanders are just bad ok i got it. What is stated tho was more about going back to the old rules, i dont know at least players that played for as long as i did will probably remember how epic the game used to be, and sure part of it has to do with numbers and activity (which is a problem the devs are looking into it right now, hence why of my post), but a big part of it is also the devs making terrible design choices over the years that drove a lot of people away form the game.

Nobody can take anything anymore? What? My three-person group constantly takes things, including T3 keeps. Strategy matters!

Sure when the game is dead, how do you do then there is a 50 man blob defending that keep? how do you do when every map is qued for all the servers to take that keep? assuming arenanet do the alliances correctly and every map is full of people 24/7 how do you plan on doing that?