Braham

[Urud.4925]

@dannico.8567 said:Braham is needed because someone has to call the PC out on their B.S and their (many) screwups, even as all other NPCs obey without questioning or losing any faith whatsoever, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially for Rytlock. He is a hothead and rushing off to do his own thing without thinking of the consequence, but that is exactly what the PC did - rushing straight into the jungle with the entire force without any reconnoiter thinking it will be a cakewalk, getting the fleet torn down straight away, of which his mother was a part - so from his point of view he is entitled to do the same.

Ehi, I wasn't there in the jungle to guide the mission! They went ahead without me! I was... busy (though I don't remember doing what).I agree that Braham has a specific role though. But I'm not guilty for that accident in the jungle!

[Oglaf.1074]

@Felipe.1807 said:

@"Yasi.9065" said:The amount of pleasure I felt when I FINALLY got to slay Trahearne was really quite indecent.

You know that moment in the lvl60 Personal Story? Where Trahearne "sacrifices" himself and tells you to close the doors? I did a little happydance at my desk because finally he was gone.... just to realize he is BACK in the next chapter.

With Braham I kinda see the same developement :cry::

I can understand the hate that Braham gets...norn is my favorite race and Anet made the main norn NPC into a complete kitten...but whats up with this Traherne hatred? Replayed the personal story a while ago, and i am yet to understand where people take this idea that Traherne try to steal your spotlight or whatever, on contrary, he allways made really clear that everything that is done in the story is thanks to you...i just dont get it....

Because he is Tree Jesus McMary Sue who just shows up and makes the story all about him. Your character gets reduced to a side character who is just there to witness his awesomeness in cleansing Orr.

Doesn’t matter if the writers have him be humble about it. Doesn’t change the fact how the story shifts focus. It is not about Trahearne as a character but rather the writing.

[Underdark.3726]

Well at least Braham have some balls. Not like Rytlock, a Tribune who sudenly calls me Commander and follow any order I gave him like a pup.

[Blockhead Magee.3092]

Braham is annoying and my character wouldn't have anything to do with him. But, at least he's not around as much as that overrated plot device Taimi. My character would have left her on the side of the road years ago. If we have to suffer with her, we might as well suffer with Braham.

[Palador.2170]

@dannico.8567 said:Braham is needed because someone has to call the PC out on their B.S and their (many) screwups, even as all other NPCs obey without questioning or losing any faith whatsoever, which doesn't make a whole lot of sense, especially for Rytlock. He is a hothead and rushing off to do his own thing without thinking of the consequence, but that is exactly what the PC did - rushing straight into the jungle with the entire force without any reconnoiter thinking it will be a cakewalk, getting the fleet torn down straight away, of which his mother was a part - so from his point of view he is entitled to do the same.

You seem to mis-remember that story, so let me refresh your memory.

We were not with the Pact when they decided to launch, we were busy trying to track down Glint's egg. We even told them why we wouldn't be with them (which caused Caithe to follow us and get a chance to steal the egg).

Trahearne was the one that decided to launch at that time, and for three reasons. First was that they wanted to hit Mordremoth before it had a chance to build up too much power. Second was because Mordremoth had launched an attack against the Pact base and been repelled. And the third reason was because he had the morale booster of having (most of) Destiny's Edge with him on the fleet.

Let's consider that third reason for a moment, shall we? Destiny's Edge was well known for fighting the Elder Dragons. They were supposed to know what they were doing, and with Eir leading them how could they not, right? If ANYONE there should have stopped Trahearne from launching, it was Eir. The fact is that she made the same tactical mistake that Trahearne did, and they both paid the price. The PC wasn't consulted, but spent the majority of the HoT storyline helping the survivors to recover from following those two.

And as for losing faith? I would remind you that the PC spent a lot of LS3 alone because the entire team splintered off for their own reasons. None of them follow without question. And Rytlock has made a few big mistakes himself, he's not going to call out the PC when he can't do any better.

[Endrance.1680]

@"Underdark.3726" said:Well at least Braham have some balls. Not like Rytlock, a Tribune who sudenly calls me Commander and follow any order I gave him like a pup.

Braham has no balls. His "balls" are his childish emotions that he has no control over whatsoever. Rytlock is far from a pup. Have you forgotten that he dives into the mists after attempting to cleanse the foe fire, discovers a new profession, and releases Balthazar?

[Leo G.4501]

@"Underdark.3726" said:Well at least Braham have some balls. Not like Rytlock, a Tribune who sudenly calls me Commander and follow any order I gave him like a pup.

Following orders isn't a sign of submission or lack of masculinity. Thinking the only way to show you have balls is to push people around is just a sign of immaturity.

If you're not as competent as someone else at something, it'd be foolish to brush aside that someone's leadership just to keep a hold on your "balls". When you join the military, you will learn that quick.

[Endrance.1680]

@Leo G.4501 said:

@"Underdark.3726" said:Well at least Braham have some balls. Not like Rytlock, a Tribune who sudenly calls me Commander and follow any order I gave him like a pup.

Following orders isn't a sign of submission or lack of masculinity. Thinking the only way to show you have balls is to push people around is just a sign of immaturity.

If you're not as competent as someone else at something, it'd be foolish to brush aside that someone's leadership just to keep a hold on your "balls". When you join the military, you will learn that quick.

As a current member of the US Army, you nailed this. Need a guild invite bro? lol

[Underdark.3726]

Braham is the only character that has some character in him. Bad or good that's for you to decide. All other members have zero character (Canach is OK for now but he needs to move from the "hey I'm sarcastic" role to something else or else he will be as plain as the others). Rox is below zero. Rytlock after he jumped in the mists has become a pup.

[Oglaf.1074]

It is not really about his character being terribly written (it is) but how our character is written to respond to him.

Especially if you’re a Norn yourself and as a result knew Eir very well and know how Norn culture works. My character should’ve punched his lights out when he said I was dishonoring her memory and such.

I really wish your racial choice mattered more outside of the first chapters.

[particlepinata.9865]

He seems to have reversed from more mature to more childish/drama. I liked him in LS 1 and 2. Not so since LS3. Hot was a between phase.

[Goettel.4389]

I'm thinking a lethal accident in a misbegotten duel with Lord Faren. Do it!

[Endless Soul.5178]

I'm sorry, but I really cannot advocate the willful killing of any character just because they're "annoying".

~sneakily sticks out their asura foot, tripping Brahm into a quaggan pit, then walks away whistling innocently and nonchalantly~

[Leo G.4501]

@Endrance.1680 said:

@Leo G.4501 said:

@"Underdark.3726" said:Well at least Braham have some balls. Not like Rytlock, a Tribune who sudenly calls me Commander and follow any order I gave him like a pup.

Following orders isn't a sign of submission or lack of masculinity. Thinking the only way to show you have balls is to push people around is just a sign of immaturity.

If you're not as competent as someone else at something, it'd be foolish to brush aside that someone's leadership just to keep a hold on your "balls". When you join the military, you will learn that quick.

As a current member of the US Army, you nailed this. Need a guild invite bro? lol

I probably wouldn't play enough to satisfy a spot on a guild. I occasionally take breaks, although if messaged, I don't have a problem logging in. I'm planning to give Tera a go again when I get home but plans can change.

[Cuddy.6247]

@arenta.2953 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:My guess is Braham will become an icebrood and we'll get our fight with him then. And then Rox will talk us out of killing him and instead we'll just capture him and he'll be our first attempt at replicating the Forgotten ritual to cleanse corruption. Then when he's cleansed that chip will be off his shoulder because he realised that we had him dead to rights and still chose to save his life because we're allies to the bitter end.

screw that. i'd join the inquest and torture him >=D

In my opinion that's about as childish as Braham's character. I think a stronger character arc for Braham is to go out on his own still, spread his wings. And then when he flies too close to the sun (Jormag, in this case, so the exact opposite of a sun) his wings burn up and he falls back down to earth. I think it's a rather interesting take - if flawed by being poorly written. Why is the PC so special? Why can't there be somebody else taking charge? Braham is a challenge to our authority and constant autonomy. I think that's cool, ANet just suffers from shoving character progression into tiny snippets of story.

Give us a story where we have him dead to rights and choose to be the bigger man.

[arenta.2953]

@Cuddy.6247 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:My guess is Braham will become an icebrood and we'll get our fight with him then. And then Rox will talk us out of killing him and instead we'll just capture him and he'll be our first attempt at replicating the Forgotten ritual to cleanse corruption. Then when he's cleansed that chip will be off his shoulder because he realised that we had him dead to rights and still chose to save his life because we're allies to the bitter end.

screw that. i'd join the inquest and torture him >=D

In my opinion that's about as childish as Braham's character. I think a stronger character arc for Braham is to go out on his own still, spread his wings. And then when he flies too close to the sun (Jormag, in this case, so the exact opposite of a sun) his wings burn up and he falls back down to earth. I think it's a rather interesting take - if flawed by being poorly written. Why is the PC so special? Why can't there be somebody else taking charge? Braham is a challenge to our authority and constant autonomy. I think that's cool, ANet just suffers from shoving character progression into tiny snippets of story.

Give us a story where we have him dead to rights and choose to be the bigger man.

the issue is Braham isn't taking charge in a way similar to the PC, where its for the betterment of all.

he's taking charge in a childish way where

1. he's letting grief overcome common sense
2. he's not considering the effect provoking jormag can have on his people, and the world(even ignoring Taimi's warning)
3. he's bullheadedly runing into things in a way that will get people close to him killed (we got lucky Rox was unfrozen)
4. he's letting his ego get ahead of him
5. he's pushing everyone away from him, while dragging those that stick around into hell itself.

sure, we could do an arc where he comes around and matures,but to do so effectively, would involve loss to teach him the consequences of his actions.

Rox...or the Norn city. take your pick. his actions having consequences that he learns from.

both of which i prefer over him.

i'd rather he die the fool, a warning to those who let personal feelings overcome common sense, and leave us with the characters that haven't turned into total arses.

[Demented Sheep.1642]

@Cuddy.6247 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:My guess is Braham will become an icebrood and we'll get our fight with him then. And then Rox will talk us out of killing him and instead we'll just capture him and he'll be our first attempt at replicating the Forgotten ritual to cleanse corruption. Then when he's cleansed that chip will be off his shoulder because he realised that we had him dead to rights and still chose to save his life because we're allies to the bitter end.

screw that. i'd join the inquest and torture him >=D

In my opinion that's about as childish as Braham's character. I think a stronger character arc for Braham is to go out on his own still, spread his wings. And then when he flies too close to the sun (Jormag, in this case, so the exact opposite of a sun) his wings burn up and he falls back down to earth. I think it's a rather interesting take - if flawed by being poorly written. Why is the PC so special? Why can't there be somebody else taking charge? Braham is a challenge to our authority and constant autonomy. I think that's cool, ANet just suffers from shoving character progression into tiny snippets of story.

Give us a story where we have him dead to rights and choose to be the bigger man.

It's not like he is the only character who challenges our "authority" . None of the members of DW really follow our orders and you just as likely to be doing what they are telling you to do. They all run off and do their own thing when they want to. Marjory dose it even when you explicitly tell her not to and they mock you when have to pretend to be Archon Iberu and put your foot down to stay in character.Braham is being childish, overly aggressive and just plain stupid about it which isn't interesting or compelling.

[Cuddy.6247]

@arenta.2953 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:

@arenta.2953 said:

@Cuddy.6247 said:My guess is Braham will become an icebrood and we'll get our fight with him then. And then Rox will talk us out of killing him and instead we'll just capture him and he'll be our first attempt at replicating the Forgotten ritual to cleanse corruption. Then when he's cleansed that chip will be off his shoulder because he realised that we had him dead to rights and still chose to save his life because we're allies to the bitter end.

screw that. i'd join the inquest and torture him >=D

In my opinion that's about as childish as Braham's character. I think a stronger character arc for Braham is to go out on his own still, spread his wings. And then when he flies too close to the sun (Jormag, in this case, so the exact opposite of a sun) his wings burn up and he falls back down to earth. I think it's a rather interesting take - if flawed by being poorly written. Why is the PC so special? Why can't there be somebody else taking charge? Braham is a challenge to our authority and constant autonomy. I think that's cool, ANet just suffers from shoving character progression into tiny snippets of story.

Give us a story where we have him dead to rights and choose to be the bigger man.

the issue is Braham isn't taking charge in a way similar to the PC, where its for the betterment of all.

he's taking charge in a childish way where

1. he's letting grief overcome common sense
2. he's not considering the effect provoking jormag can have on his people, and the world(even ignoring Taimi's warning)
3. he's bullheadedly runing into things in a way that will get people close to him killed (we got lucky Rox was unfrozen)
4. he's letting his ego get ahead of him
5. he's pushing everyone away from him, while dragging those that stick around into hell itself.

sure, we could do an arc where he comes around and matures,but to do so effectively, would involve loss to teach him the consequences of his actions.

Rox...or the Norn city. take your pick. his actions having consequences that he learns from.

both of which i prefer over him.

i'd rather he die the fool, a warning to those who let personal feelings overcome common sense, and leave us with the characters that haven't turned into total arses.

He might be bullheaded, but it's far from being childish. He found a way to crack Jormag's tooth. I don't think they accurately represent the implications that this has for the norn (and I'm rather sad that they let norn NPC's let it slide so easily, barely justified by the personal relationship with Taimi). What if Christians found the ark of the covenant? It'd be huge. He might be leading them down a dangerous path, but it's one that several are willing to follow because of the legendary status of Braham's feat. So in a way, he is taking charge - he's just taking charge in a much more traditional norn manner. If you played GW1 you can see the norn are a rather stubborn and stupid sort - they show up to help you fight the Destroyers with only like three people and you're like: "We needed an army." -- "Oh, well, we didn't want to give you one. We'll be good enough though."