Patch notes!

[Curunen.8729]

Staff 3 is SO AWESOME now. It's gone from being an afterthought to a useful addition in combat. I love the double clone generation (excellent leading into either ambush or shatter), and the beam attack doesn't miss like a projectile. Excellent rework here.

iMage animation is also amazing. I think the attack delay could be a bit shorter otherwise it's difficult to time interrupts with it (kind of like ranger wolf fear), but otherwise much better.

Edit: AAAH no! They fixed the resistance duration on Signet of Inspiration. :( I was enjoying the fairly frequent 4 seconds of resistance even though the tooltip only stated 2s. But now it is only 2s. Oh well, it was a bug so was going to be fixed eventually anyway.

[Alpha.1308]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:

@"atlashugged.7642" said:So I just noticed something: the patch notes say that a phantasm that resummons itself will not create a clone. But you still get a clone from the second phantasm with chronophantasm. I don't know if this is intentional and the patch notes aren't written clearly, or the game is bugged.

Yeah i noticed that, likely "bugged" so will be removed, though i dont think it should be :/

i think they mean on the first phantasm endmeaning, like, one phantasm spell can't equal 2 clonesi think it's working as intended, just meaning on the first phantasm

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Alpha.1308 said:i think they mean on the first phantasm endmeaning, like, one phantasm spell can't equal 2 clonesi think it's working as intended, just meaning on the first phantasm

So its meant to be:

Summon PhantasmPhantasm AttacksPhantasm DiesChronophantasm ProcsPhantasm SummonsPhantasm AttacksPhantasm DiesClone summoned

Rather than:Summon PhantasmPhantasm AttacksPhantasm DiesClone SummonedChronophantasm ProcsPhantasm SummonsPhantasm AttacksPhantasm DiesClone summoned

[Alpha.1308]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So....

that's what i assumed it was how it's supposed to be, anyway

i didn't actually think it meant it was supposed to not spawn a clone at all

but, then again, why would i think they'd give mesmer something useful

time will tell

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Alpha.1308 said:

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So....

that's what i assumed it was how it's supposed to be, anyway

i didn't actually think it meant it was supposed to not spawn a clone at all

but, then again, why would i think they'd give mesmer something useful

time will tell

I would I would have personally preferred if it was:

Summon PhantasmPhantasm AttacksPhantasm DiesClone SUmmonsChronophantasm ProcsPhantasm SummonsPhantasm AttacksPhantasm Dies

It would also fit with the text, as it does say (IIRC) that a resummoned phantasm wont create one, but in its current form, it does? So shouldn't it create the clone and then resummon, do its attack and then die?

[Alpha.1308]

@ArmageddonAsh.6430 said:So shouldn't it create the clone and then resummon, do its attack and then die?

i understand what you mean, i don't know the exact text, but, if we look at it as a phantasm upgrade, it'd be an upgrade to clone generation at the same time at that pointyou're getting a clone at regular speed, AND the extra phantasm

it should delay the clone, to keep in line with it being more toward a phantasm build, i actually think it's perfect as is, the daze is a little dumb, but right now you're getting like 20 phantasms so i think.... that's...... okay.... for now, we'll have to see how this plays out and what people come up with

but i actually do personally like how it's working now, being a slower clone generator in favor for more phantasms, but not entirely removing the clone aspect so you're not clone starved if you need an upcoming distortion/diversion

EDIT:actually, text is spot on in gamefirst time phantasm would become a clone, it instead summons a phantasmso, working as intended, and actually is really perfect for what it's meant for

[ArmageddonAsh.6430]

@Alpha.1308 said:i understand what you mean, i don't know the exact text, but, if we look at it as a phantasm upgrade, it'd be an upgrade to clone generation at the same time at that pointyou're getting a clone at regular speed, AND the extra phantasm

it should delay the clone, to keep in line with it being more toward a phantasm build, i actually think it's perfect as is, the daze is a little dumb, but right now you're getting like 20 phantasms so i think.... that's...... okay.... for now, we'll have to see how this plays out and what people come up with

but i actually do personally like how it's working now, being a slower clone generator in favor for more phantasms, but not entirely removing the clone aspect so you're not clone starved if you need an upcoming distortion/diversion

How is it more Phantasms? They removed the trait that reduced the cool down but either increased the cool down of Phantasms or didnt reduce them, the illusion cool down trait being removed was a HUGE hit :/

So much defense and offense lost with that single change :(

[Zoser.7245]

I still need to test lot of things and weapons I must test too. But... Do you remember when we was complaining about the static phantasmal warden? At the first time reading the changes I really though about a warden throwing axes to all nearly enemies at the same time like an extended area, but how it works now he attack "one" enemy each time with each axe, meh for my taste, although the funniest thing is that now our swordman root itself swinging into the air with his sword after his first attack hitting nothing while your enemy run to you. You not only you can dodge him and laugh later, plus in the worse case , how he runs against you more or less slowly if you can't dodge, block his first hit with calm , do a step aside and laugh equally watching him, as we tested in the arena. For static bosses is another story of course.

[Alpha.1308]

@"ArmageddonAsh.6430" said:So much defense and offense lost with that single change

i meanto be fairi never said the entire overhaul was "good"

i'm saying that, for what they were aiming for, Chronophantasma does what they wanted it to do, and they made it do it wellthe balance team has problems, obviously, nobody is denying that

but, they finally made one thing perfectly fine, even if it was only good because of the current iteration of it

[Zoser.7245]

Seriously they should have considered give swordsman a longer jump, like the first one, at his first attack with higher damage and a second jump shorter with lower damage considering that it's a single target skill. Instead of leave the duelist theme with a laughable second action hitting the air often in at least two game modes.We will have to continue testing builds and alternatives. I think the chornomancer has to win in some game modes respect to the Mirage when people thought otherwise. I guess the ***** will happen in the next few days in the forums. So be careful before spending gold changing everything, some adjustments could happen in the next few weeks and regret it.

[Cantatus.4065]

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@Levetty.1279 said:Yeah the lack of CD reductions especially with the trait removed is disappointing.

I definitely agree with that. A lot of the phantasms have really long cooldowns that aren't justified by their effects anymore. Anet definitely needs to take a look at the cds on a lot of phantasms and weapon skills.

I would guess they're reluctant to reduce the cooldown too much since they're now clone generating skills. Though, even in that case, 30 seconds on iMage is way too long.

If that is the case, could be interesting to see a trait that reduces the cooldown on all phantasm skills in exchange for them no longer summoning clones on expiration.

[Zoser.7245]

@Cantatus.4065 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@"Levetty.1279" said:Yeah the lack of CD reductions especially with the trait removed is disappointing.

I definitely agree with that. A lot of the phantasms have really long cooldowns that aren't justified by their effects anymore. Anet definitely needs to take a look at the cds on a lot of phantasms and weapon skills.

I would guess they're reluctant to reduce the cooldown too much since they're now clone generating skills. Though, even in that case, 30 seconds on iMage is way too long.

If that is the case, could be interesting to see a trait that reduces the cooldown on all phantasm skills in exchange for them no longer summoning clones on expiration.

They put us to trade off between "Shatter Storm", the potential of burst with torch if you properly manage their two skills, and "The Pledge". I'm agree that the cooldown is a bit high but ... if you nerf the skills of the torch we lose the surprise burst when properly done, and they are not going to split mechanics between game modes, only numbers.

[OriOri.8724]

@Zoser.7245 said:

@Cantatus.4065 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@"Levetty.1279" said:Yeah the lack of CD reductions especially with the trait removed is disappointing.

I definitely agree with that. A lot of the phantasms have really long cooldowns that aren't justified by their effects anymore. Anet definitely needs to take a look at the cds on a lot of phantasms and weapon skills.

I would guess they're reluctant to reduce the cooldown too much since they're now clone generating skills. Though, even in that case, 30 seconds on iMage is way too long.

If that is the case, could be interesting to see a trait that reduces the cooldown on all phantasm skills in exchange for them no longer summoning clones on expiration.

They put us to trade off between "Shatter Storm", the potential of burst with torch if you properly manage their two skills, and "The Pledge". I'm agree that the cooldown is a bit high but ... if you nerf the skills of the torch we lose the surprise burst when properly done, and they are not going to split mechanics between game modes, only numbers.

? Torch CDs are way too high for the effects that they have. the prestige can be argued its ok, because it grants stealth. But image is not worth a 30sec CD. It should be 24-25 base max

[Zoser.7245]

@OriOri.8724 said:

@Zoser.7245 said:

@Cantatus.4065 said:

@Pyroatheist.9031 said:

@"Levetty.1279" said:Yeah the lack of CD reductions especially with the trait removed is disappointing.

I definitely agree with that. A lot of the phantasms have really long cooldowns that aren't justified by their effects anymore. Anet definitely needs to take a look at the cds on a lot of phantasms and weapon skills.

I would guess they're reluctant to reduce the cooldown too much since they're now clone generating skills. Though, even in that case, 30 seconds on iMage is way too long.

If that is the case, could be interesting to see a trait that reduces the cooldown on all phantasm skills in exchange for them no longer summoning clones on expiration.

They put us to trade off between "Shatter Storm", the potential of burst with torch if you properly manage their two skills, and "The Pledge". I'm agree that the cooldown is a bit high but ... if you nerf the skills of the torch we lose the surprise burst when properly done, and they are not going to split mechanics between game modes, only numbers.

? Torch CDs are way too high for the effects that they have. the prestige can be argued its ok, because it grants stealth. But image is not worth a 30sec CD. It should be 24-25 base max

Unfortunately we have too many unskilled players playing in competitive mode. I'm agree with lower the CD. But due to that it's like it is. A split between (PVE/WvW) and PvP will be belcome lowering the CD , in that split grouping... and successive patches with caution until reaching properly balance. Regards.

[Dastion.3106]

I tend to be of the opinion that I'd rather have a solid mechanic and be undertuned than a poorly conceived class mechanic and be overpowered. Setting the numbers aside, I freaking love the new mechanic. For nearly 6 years the Mesmer's core mechanic has been flawed in that it counteracts itself. When you have a profession mechanic that encourages you to auto-attack for fear of overwriting your phantasms it might be effective, but it's still poorly designed. Though they've made strides over the years (i.e. clones not overwriting phantasms) this is the first big design revamp like this that really put the mechanic in to a consistent state and I don't pity people having to learn to use their F-skills.

Mesmers are hella lucky to have Robert Gee in our corner - I just wish he'd been more involved in the original Revenant conception so that it was more than "Oh look, an extra utility bar in exchange for a mere fraction of the build customizability and a shared resource." You'd think someone would have pointed out that Engineers already had that mechanic without the same sacrifice...

[OriOri.8724]

Not to derail this thread too much, but Rev had a solid class design. What Rev didn't get was adequate time to implement and balance it. Remember that originally Rev was going to be the opposite of eles, only having 1 weapon, no kits, no attunements, but he could swap his entire 6-0 at will. It simply needed more dev time, but then again all of HoT was rushed so that's no surprise.

[atlashugged.7642]

@Dastion.3106 said:I tend to be of the opinion that I'd rather have a solid mechanic and be undertuned than a poorly conceived class mechanic and be overpowered. Setting the numbers aside, I freaking love the new mechanic. For nearly 6 years the Mesmer's core mechanic has been flawed in that it counteracts itself. When you have a profession mechanic that encourages you to auto-attack for fear of overwriting your phantasms it might be effective, but it's still poorly designed. Though they've made strides over the years (i.e. clones not overwriting phantasms) this is the first big design revamp like this that really put the mechanic in to a consistent state

I agree the design change is great, but disagree about why is is necessary. The idea of introducing competing choices in a classes play is great. But how it was originally implemented in mesmer is not. Phantasm as dps pets are just fundamentally boring. They don't do any of the things that great pet classes in other games do.

To me the problem wasn't that I had to choose between phantasm or clone. It was that I had to choose boring over interesting in order to be effective at pve. Now that mesmer pve builds are shifting towards more interesting things, I may actually pick up pve as more than an annoying task to do in order to get things.

[DEAN.6290]

Why has Gravity Well become so weak , there is almost no point to using it as a skill anymore , as I can now do more damage with a frenzied attack which has a massively lower cool down period, also the animation for Gravity Well sucks now that it has been changed. I'm not bothered with all the other changes done to the Mesmer class but this one mystifies me. Oh well my only rant, over.

[Levetty.1279]

@DEAN.6290 said:Why has Gravity Well become so weak , there is almost no point to using it as a skill anymore , as I can now do more damage with a frenzied attack which has a massively lower cool down period, also the animation for Gravity Well sucks now that it has been changed. I'm not bothered with all the other changes done to the Mesmer class but this one mystifies me. Oh well my only rant, over.

I'm unaware of any change to Gravity Well.

[Lincolnbeard.1735]

With the confusion nerf I would like to see a new condition (mesmer only and not the alacrity "only" type.) similar to GW1 Wastrel's Worry, that stacks intensity but not duration.If you don't use a skill in x seconds (autoattack excluded) you take y damage.

[funkyphresh.3705]

Anything cool about these changes is totally counterbalanced (in a bad way, as in more than counterbalanced) by losing illusionist's celerity. I was happy that chaotic dampening was brought back so that mainhanding staff was a little bit more viable again until this. T_T

However the phantasm reverting to clone thing could be alright for condi mesmers who tend to have weak phantasms to begin with. It's been awhile since I've played though so I could be wrong.