OP and UP classes top 10

[Axl.8924]

@Kahyos.1437 said:

@"Axl.8924" said:Gotta love the necro haters out there, asking for nerfed into the ground.

Then again:Its not just the necro haters, but the druid haters, for some reason and then thief haters, which apparently want thieves to do no damage.

Most "necro" haters are just really scourge haters. Everybody thinks every other class is OP, but scourge's bad design is just stupid to play against.

Agreed, but its the way people present solutions which would gut and wreck scourge, necros new elite.Such solutions are bad for the game, and bad for the class, leaving them in a haze of destruction.

Every class has issues, and some are problematic.

[Neil.3825]

@"Kahyos.1437" said:Most "necro" haters are just really scourge haters. Everybody thinks every other class is OP, but sand savant's bad design is just stupid to play against.

Fixed.

[Vagrant.7206]

@mortrialus.3062 said:Responding to your list:

5) Power holosmith - Holosmith is strong but I'm fine with it. All of it's attacks have very clear wind up and tells. I think it's the perfect elite spec. Just compare all the instant cast stuff that Mirage and Scourge have compared to all of Holosmith's skills. I do hate the fact that it's completely subplanted Scrapper. Scrapper is a tanky, bruiser / support hybrid. If it isn't top tier in PvP then it has zero place in the game as a spec. Imagine Spellbreaker before the recent buffs to power damage. There was zero reason to use it outside of PvP and Scrapper doesn't even have that anymore from what I can see.

Part of the reason scrapper has been supplanted by holo is because of the scourge, and because scrapper really doesn't do all that much damage. Scrapper has very little value in PvE, and can't survive in the presence of a force such as the scourge. So right now, it has nowhere where it's particularly useful.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Kovu.7560 said:

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Kovu.7560 said:I want to meet the Druid that's successfully tanking three decent players.Oh, and lol @ Soulbeast. OP, are you sure you play the game?

~ Kovu

Then try to play pvp more often and you will meet one eventually. Oh, and yes, i play guild wars 2, where Soulbeast is OP. Which game do you play?

That whole response is giving me an "I know you are but what am I?" vibe.Best of luck with your "these are the professions that've killed me the most often" list.

~ Kovu

That whole response is giving me an "Whatever feelings over facts" vibe.Best of luck with your denial.

[storm.3120]

@Kovu.7560 said:I want to meet the Druid that's successfully tanking three decent players.Oh, and lol @ Soulbeast. OP, are you sure you play the game?

~ Kovu

This druids can kite 3 people (not sure if there were decent tho :D) , noone can 'facetank' them ...unless its 3 bunkers

[Axl.8924]

@Neil.3825 said:

@"Kahyos.1437" said:Most "necro" haters are just really scourge haters. Everybody thinks every other class is OP, but

sand savant

's bad design is just stupid to play against.

Fixed.

Yeah a bad design, but a very squishy class who relies on those corrupts as cc and barriers to stay alive longer, and to kill.

If you nerf them, then you will have extreme power creep difference between necros and every other class in pvp, making them unable to function correctly, and making them a dead class essencially.There is a good reason why necros and scourge are great in wvw:Large blobs tons of people with boons to corrupt.Its the reason some classes, like thief i heard, are bad at it, because being great roamers and terrible at organized blob zergs.If you take away necros ability to do that, what do they have left? Not much.They are sub par dps in pve compared to every other class, and don't say epi, because epi bouncing is all about having multiple targets who are long lived, which is why it works best in high tier fractals than lower ones, and why necros are so prevalent in tier 4 fractals, and tier 3.You want to know why? because of boon corrupt and condi corrupt and long target lives to use epi.If you got rid of epi and boon corrupt, necros wouldn't be that great anymore in pve.

As much as you want to hate them, Boon corrupt is their thing, not boon stripping or boon steal.Boon stripping and stealing is other classes jobs, not necros.Necros job is to corrupt those boons and corrupt those condis, and have all those massive CCS.

In fact:Raids would probably be 1000 times better if every raid boss had loads and loads of boons and made the condis and burst go down unless you boon corrupt, because then you'd have to strategically use em.Not every boss but some bosses i feel.

Imagine if you had a boss who uses resistance and you need at least one necro for the job:Yeah.

You know those fractals like slime mini boss in tourmanova? well last time i did it, i was wishing i had a reaper or a scourge there to cc, because reapers are great at crippling enemies.

In spvp:Reaper has a really hard time even surviving, so you got nothing to complain about.OF course nobody complains when they are too slow to catch up.

Use common sense and don't be going around hating.Try to play the character.You know when i fought a rev as a thief? i didn't say OMG OP REV NERF NERF!! no i said:Hi rev guys so, how do i beat you? and i read every single message and thought about it.

[BeepBoopBop.5403]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Neil.3825 said:

@"Kahyos.1437" said:Most "necro" haters are just really scourge haters. Everybody thinks every other class is OP, but

sand savant

's bad design is just stupid to play against.

Fixed.

Yeah a bad design, but a very squishy class who relies on those corrupts as cc and barriers to stay alive longer, and to kill.

If you nerf them, then you will have extreme power creep difference between necros and every other class in pvp, making them unable to function correctly, and making them a dead class essencially.There is a good reason why necros and scourge are great in wvw:Large blobs tons of people with boons to corrupt.Its the reason some classes, like thief i heard, are bad at it, because being great roamers and terrible at organized blob zergs.If you take away necros ability to do that, what do they have left? Not much.They are sub par dps in pve compared to every other class, and don't say epi, because epi bouncing is all about having multiple targets who are long lived, which is why it works best in high tier fractals than lower ones, and why necros are so prevalent in tier 4 fractals, and tier 3.You want to know why? because of boon corrupt and condi corrupt and long target lives to use epi.If you got rid of epi and boon corrupt, necros wouldn't be that great anymore in pve.

As much as you want to hate them, Boon corrupt is their thing, not boon stripping or boon steal.Boon stripping and stealing is other classes jobs, not necros.Necros job is to corrupt those boons and corrupt those condis, and have all those massive CCS.

In fact:Raids would probably be 1000 times better if every raid boss had loads and loads of boons and made the condis and burst go down unless you boon corrupt, because then you'd have to strategically use em.Not every boss but some bosses i feel.

Imagine if you had a boss who uses resistance and you need at least one necro for the job:Yeah.

You know those fractals like slime mini boss in tourmanova? well last time i did it, i was wishing i had a reaper or a scourge there to cc, because reapers are great at crippling enemies.

In spvp:Reaper has a really hard time even surviving, so you got nothing to complain about.OF course nobody complains when they are too slow to catch up.

Use common sense and don't be going around hating.Try to play the character.You know when i fought a rev as a thief? i didn't say OMG OP REV NERF NERF!! no i said:Hi rev guys so, how do i beat you? and i read every single message and thought about it.

Not sure if troll or silver

[Axl.8924]

Not sure if troll or silver

Or it might be your a troll or silver who is biased and just mindlessly hates necros, because yeah it makes so much sense to gut a class instead of using a scalpel to make a surgical change instead of using a chainsaw.

Let me tell you a story:

I was pvping one day encountered my first scourge, and someone in my team was spamming boons non stop.I had stuff like protection might and stuff like that easily generated, and i know it wasn't me because i was standing still.I got close to necro and all those boons got corrupted easily.

The fact that boons can be spammed that easily is the reason why boon corrupt is so necessary in the first place, and nerfing it will mean something will have to replace it to deal with the amount of boons.Boon corrupt is so problematic because its very debilitating yes, but Its a counter to Boon spamming bunker builds that are very tanky, like guardians and revs with boons and engis.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Neil.3825 said:

@"Kahyos.1437" said:Most "necro" haters are just really scourge haters. Everybody thinks every other class is OP, but

sand savant

's bad design is just stupid to play against.

Fixed.

Yeah a bad design, but a very squishy class who relies on those corrupts as cc and barriers to stay alive longer, and to kill.

If you nerf them, then you will have extreme power creep difference between necros and every other class in pvp, making them unable to function correctly, and making them a dead class essencially.There is a good reason why necros and scourge are great in wvw:Large blobs tons of people with boons to corrupt.Its the reason some classes, like thief i heard, are bad at it, because being great roamers and terrible at organized blob zergs.If you take away necros ability to do that, what do they have left? Not much.They are sub par dps in pve compared to every other class, and don't say epi, because epi bouncing is all about having multiple targets who are long lived, which is why it works best in high tier fractals than lower ones, and why necros are so prevalent in tier 4 fractals, and tier 3.You want to know why? because of boon corrupt and condi corrupt and long target lives to use epi.If you got rid of epi and boon corrupt, necros wouldn't be that great anymore in pve.

As much as you want to hate them, Boon corrupt is their thing, not boon stripping or boon steal.Boon stripping and stealing is other classes jobs, not necros.Necros job is to corrupt those boons and corrupt those condis, and have all those massive CCS.

In fact:Raids would probably be 1000 times better if every raid boss had loads and loads of boons and made the condis and burst go down unless you boon corrupt, because then you'd have to strategically use em.Not every boss but some bosses i feel.

Imagine if you had a boss who uses resistance and you need at least one necro for the job:Yeah.

You know those fractals like slime mini boss in tourmanova? well last time i did it, i was wishing i had a reaper or a scourge there to cc, because reapers are great at crippling enemies.

In spvp:Reaper has a really hard time even surviving, so you got nothing to complain about.OF course nobody complains when they are too slow to catch up.

Use common sense and don't be going around hating.Try to play the character.You know when i fought a rev as a thief? i didn't say OMG OP REV NERF NERF!! no i said:Hi rev guys so, how do i beat you? and i read every single message and thought about it.

Not sure if troll or silver

If your only counter-argument to any argument is "you must be silver", then you automatically lose the discussion.

[Faux Play.6104]

The fact that soulbeast is # 2 is hilarious. It seems to be very biased against builds with strong opening attacks. Try using retaliation before the soul beast does their opening burst with one wolf pack. That should be in guardian's kit and will be very effective vs their initial burst of lots of attacks in a very short time frame. As far as druid, yeah it is a good tank build that can hold a side node, but the reason that it is forced to side nodes is firebrand is better than it across the board. The fact that the boon spam Mesmer isn't in your list is the final nail in the coffin for your credibility. Having a class that can have perma quickness, resistance, stab, 25 might, agis coupled with AI attacks that deal over 10k damage is beyond broken.

[Axl.8924]

@Faux Play.6104 said:The fact that soulbeast is # 2 is hilarious. It seems to be very biased against builds with strong opening attacks. Try using retaliation before the soul beast does their opening burst with one wolf pack. That should be in guardian's kit and will be very effective vs their initial burst of lots of attacks in a very short time frame. As far as druid, yeah it is a good tank build that can hold a side node, but the reason that it is forced to side nodes is firebrand is better than it across the board. The fact that the boon spam Mesmer isn't in your list is the final nail in the coffin for your credibility. Having a class that can have perma quickness, resistance, stab, 25 might, agis coupled with AI attacks that deal over 10k damage is beyond broken.

I heard soulbeast is strong but not sure.I can't tell if i've met any or not in spvp, or maybe i haven't done enough spvp to have encountered one.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Soulbeast shines most in WvW roaming, but it loses effectiveness in sPvP. Although I do think it is underrated by most, I would not at all put it on the OP list. However I will be interested to see how it performs after this next patch.

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@BeepBoopBop.5403 said:

@Axl.8924 said:

@Neil.3825 said:

@"Kahyos.1437" said:Most "necro" haters are just really scourge haters. Everybody thinks every other class is OP, but

sand savant

's bad design is just stupid to play against.

Fixed.

Yeah a bad design, but a very squishy class who relies on those corrupts as cc and barriers to stay alive longer, and to kill.

If you nerf them, then you will have extreme power creep difference between necros and every other class in pvp, making them unable to function correctly, and making them a dead class essencially.There is a good reason why necros and scourge are great in wvw:Large blobs tons of people with boons to corrupt.Its the reason some classes, like thief i heard, are bad at it, because being great roamers and terrible at organized blob zergs.If you take away necros ability to do that, what do they have left? Not much.They are sub par dps in pve compared to every other class, and don't say epi, because epi bouncing is all about having multiple targets who are long lived, which is why it works best in high tier fractals than lower ones, and why necros are so prevalent in tier 4 fractals, and tier 3.You want to know why? because of boon corrupt and condi corrupt and long target lives to use epi.If you got rid of epi and boon corrupt, necros wouldn't be that great anymore in pve.

As much as you want to hate them, Boon corrupt is their thing, not boon stripping or boon steal.Boon stripping and stealing is other classes jobs, not necros.Necros job is to corrupt those boons and corrupt those condis, and have all those massive CCS.

In fact:Raids would probably be 1000 times better if every raid boss had loads and loads of boons and made the condis and burst go down unless you boon corrupt, because then you'd have to strategically use em.Not every boss but some bosses i feel.

Imagine if you had a boss who uses resistance and you need at least one necro for the job:Yeah.

You know those fractals like slime mini boss in tourmanova? well last time i did it, i was wishing i had a reaper or a scourge there to cc, because reapers are great at crippling enemies.

In spvp:Reaper has a really hard time even surviving, so you got nothing to complain about.OF course nobody complains when they are too slow to catch up.

Use common sense and don't be going around hating.Try to play the character.You know when i fought a rev as a thief? i didn't say OMG OP REV NERF NERF!! no i said:Hi rev guys so, how do i beat you? and i read every single message and thought about it.

Not sure if troll or silver

If your only counter-argument to any argument is "you must be silver", then you automatically lose the discussion.

And if you can’t prove your argument with facts you automatically prove that you are a silver player.

[Axl.8924]

If your only counter-argument to any argument is "you must be silver", then you automatically lose the discussion.

And if you can’t prove your argument with

facts

you automatically prove that you are a silver player.

The burden of proof is on the accuser, since he made a generalized statement that i must be silver because i made a logical commentary about class balance.

Also:Many people whine about classes and make stupid suggestions that would destroy a class elite and don't care.You have two choices:You can go back to playing or you can learn to make a good suggestion.

Beepboopbop made a troll commentary, and you sound like a troll, and not like someone who really wants to make balanced changes, or even care about necros, so why should we care what you say? its not like your adding anything of relevance.

Necro needs good relevant fixes, and core needs fixed.If you want to actually help, then try to lobby for changes that actually solve problems.Scourge has issues, but it can be owned by people who are ranged.Problem is:you got baddies who run into scourge and get owned because they got a bajillion boons.

[JayAction.9056]

@Axl.8924 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:The fact that soulbeast is # 2 is hilarious. It seems to be very biased against builds with strong opening attacks. Try using retaliation before the soul beast does their opening burst with one wolf pack. That should be in guardian's kit and will be very effective vs their initial burst of lots of attacks in a very short time frame. As far as druid, yeah it is a good tank build that can hold a side node, but the reason that it is forced to side nodes is firebrand is better than it across the board. The fact that the boon spam Mesmer isn't in your list is the final nail in the coffin for your credibility. Having a class that can have perma quickness, resistance, stab, 25 might, agis coupled with AI attacks that deal over 10k damage is beyond broken.

I heard soulbeast is strong but not sure.I can't tell if i've met any or not in spvp, or maybe i haven't done enough spvp to have encountered one.

You have trouble beating no name revs with thief? Somebody that actually knows how to play soul beast will 100 - 0 you repeatedly.

[Axl.8924]

Hey jay i wasn't insinuating they were op or anything, i was refering to hearing about them being strong.I never claimed to be the best

[koharu.5982]

Really i seem to die more against (warrior) Spellbreaker and (thief) daredevil and rangers. i mean deadeye is still a hit miss compared to those...

[KrHome.1920]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:You are stating that Soulbeast - which is one of the most underpowered elite specializations in the game, that has almost no support, mediocre condition cleanse, low sustained damage, low overall sustain, is OP. That shows how skilled you are.Soulbeast has far more than 10 seconds of direct damage immunity while being able to unload tons of damage on his target. On top of that it has a lot of mobility. Played right the spec is extremely strong - as other posters in this thread already said.

I don't know how LB/GS Soubeast performs against conditions (I don't run condi builds). If it's weak - fine we have a counter here. But even if it is weak against conditions, that does not mean it is weak against Scourge because of Longbow, stealth and GS leaps. It might only lose against condi Mesmer then.

If you still don't believe me: ANet is going to fix Stone Signet duration in the next balance patch from 6 to 3 seconds, because it's broken esp. on Soulbeast.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:You are stating that Soulbeast - which is one of the most underpowered elite specializations in the game

Tempest? Berserker? Reaper? Dragonhunter? Scrapper? Herald? Renegate? None of those, right? Yeah, it is the second most OP class which is truly underpowered.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:I would call you a silver player because you think S/D thief is totally fine, which is the most brainless thief build that ever existed.

Where did i said that? Please, quote me on that. Go on, do it, i dare you.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:I would call you a troll because you think Deadeye is more overpowered than Condition Mesmer and Scourge.

Condition Mesmer or Scourge can't one shot people with single-hit ability dealing 25k damage, but Deadeye can. Condition Mesmer or Scourge can't down 3 players in less than 6 sec from 1200 range, but Deadeye can. Do you want to add anything to that?

@Imperadordf.2687 said:But in the end I think you are a Thief main, who calls Soulbeast is OP and S/D Thief (or D/P, whatever) is weaker than Hammer Guardian or Condition Mesmer at the moment. So I will not take you serious anymore, have a great day, Mr. Plznerfeverythingbutmymain.

And you still can't read any previous comments, can you? I already said that i play Condition Core Guardian. Please, for the love of sky wizard, look few comments back before commenting.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Faux Play.6104 said:The fact that soulbeast is # 2 is hilarious. It seems to be very biased against builds with strong opening attacks. Try using retaliation before the soul beast does their opening burst with one wolf pack. That should be in guardian's kit and will be very effective vs their initial burst of lots of attacks in a very short time frame. As far as druid, yeah it is a good tank build that can hold a side node, but the reason that it is forced to side nodes is firebrand is better than it across the board. The fact that the boon spam Mesmer isn't in your list is the final nail in the coffin for your credibility. Having a class that can have perma quickness, resistance, stab, 25 might, agis coupled with AI attacks that deal over 10k damage is beyond broken.

Soulbeast (with Brown Bear & Jacaranda/ GS+LB):Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

• Brown Bear Defy Pain: 3 sec invul with 40 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul uptime in 60 seconds
• Signet of Stone: 6 seconds invul with 80 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul in 60 seconds
• lesser signet of Stone: 5 sec invul with 70 sec cd -> ~4,2 sec invul in 60 seconds
• GS 4 Counterattack: 3 sec block with 15 seconds cd -> 4 x 3 sec = 12 sec block in 60 seconds
• Longbow 3 Hunters Shoot: 3 sec invis with 10 sec cd (skilled) -> 6 x 3 sec = 18 seconds invis uptime in 60 seconds
• lightning Reflexes: 3/4 sec dodge 32 seconds cd (skilled) -> 2 x 3/4 sec dodge = 1,5 sec dodge uptime in 60 seconds
• normal dodges with normal endurance Regeneration of 5 per second gives 1 new dodge every 10 seconds -> 6 x 3/4 sec dodges = 4,5 seconds dodge uptime in 60 seconds time periodlets ignore vidor and other endurance regenerating effectsthan we can sum up:49, 3 seconds uptime in 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges...thats ~82 % Uptime in a fight where you cannot clear attack him.

Heal of that class in 60 seconds:

• Brown Bear Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Photosynthesize: ~2500 Heal 20 sec cd -> 7500 Heal in 60 sec
• Troll unguent: 8000 Heal 20 sec cd (skilleld) -> 24000 Heal in 60 seconds.to sum up: 43.100 Heal in a Minute + lifepoints pool of Minimum 16000.

to kill a soulbeast you Need to make nearly 60.000 dmg in a 10 second time window in one Minute where you can attack him. On an enemy that can leap 5 times 1000 Range with GS 3 = 5000 Range and knock back you 5 times per Minute for Minimum of 900 range. ignoring the Problem that necros first have to Close the gap to all ranger classes that can attack you on 1500 range...

[Imperadordf.2687]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:You are stating that Soulbeast - which is one of the most underpowered elite specializations in the game

Tempest? Berserker? Reaper? Dragonhunter? Scrapper? Herald? Renegate? None of those, right? Yeah, it is the second most OP class which is truly underpowered.

Tempest, check.Berserker, check.Reaper, check.DH, no.Scrapper, no, not with the recent buffs, its on-par with Soulbeast now.Herald, no, Herald is most likely better than Soulbeast if it got some condition cleanse.Renegade, check.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:I would call you a silver player because you think S/D thief is totally fine, which is the most brainless thief build that ever existed.

Where did i said that? Please, quote me on that. Go on, do it, i dare you.

S/D Thief is absolutely better than Condition Mesmer, Soulbeast, Weaver, Power Guard, Deadeye and Holosmith at the moment, which are on your OP list. So yes, I assumed you thought S/D Thief is fine.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:I would call you a troll because you think Deadeye is more overpowered than Condition Mesmer and Scourge.

Condition Mesmer or Scourge can't one shot people with single-hit ability dealing 25k damage, but Deadeye can. Condition Mesmer or Scourge can't down 3 players in less than 6 sec from 1200 range, but Deadeye can. Do you want to add anything to that?

Condition Mesmer and Scourge can sustain damage and put pressure, Deadeye can’t. You either kill him, or he kills you in 3 seconds.Mesmer and Scourge can deal 2K DPS, but Deadeye needs 15 seconds to do that damage, for

maximum malice.

Condition Mesmer can close the gap, and Scourge already has 900 Range on shades and 300 Radius(Sand Savant) so yes, Scourge has 1200 range.Yes, I added facts and not exaggerations like

25K SINGLE HIT PLZ NERF I CANT PRESS MY DODGE KEY.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:But in the end I think you are a Thief main, who calls Soulbeast is OP and S/D Thief (or D/P, whatever) is weaker than Hammer Guardian or Condition Mesmer at the moment. So I will not take you serious anymore, have a great day, Mr. Plznerfeverythingbutmymain.

And you still can't read any previous comments, can you? I already said that i play Condition Core Guardian. Please, for the love of sky wizard, look few comments back before commenting.

Then I understand why you complain about Soulbeast :wink: Seems like you lost some 1v1s and came to complain on forums. Smh. At least be original when calling for nerfs.

[Faux Play.6104]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:The fact that soulbeast is # 2 is hilarious. It seems to be very biased against builds with strong opening attacks. Try using retaliation before the soul beast does their opening burst with one wolf pack. That should be in guardian's kit and will be very effective vs their initial burst of lots of attacks in a very short time frame. As far as druid, yeah it is a good tank build that can hold a side node, but the reason that it is forced to side nodes is firebrand is better than it across the board. The fact that the boon spam Mesmer isn't in your list is the final nail in the coffin for your credibility. Having a class that can have perma quickness, resistance, stab, 25 might, agis coupled with AI attacks that deal over 10k damage is beyond broken.

Soulbeast (with Brown Bear & Jacaranda/ GS+LB):Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

• Brown Bear Defy Pain: 3 sec invul with 40 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul uptime in 60 seconds
• Signet of Stone: 6 seconds invul with 80 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul in 60 seconds
• lesser signet of Stone: 5 sec invul with 70 sec cd -> ~4,2 sec invul in 60 seconds
• GS 4 Counterattack: 3 sec block with 15 seconds cd -> 4 x 3 sec = 12 sec block in 60 seconds
• Longbow 3 Hunters Shoot: 3 sec invis with 10 sec cd (skilled) -> 6 x 3 sec = 18 seconds invis uptime in 60 seconds
• lightning Reflexes: 3/4 sec dodge 32 seconds cd (skilled) -> 2 x 3/4 sec dodge = 1,5 sec dodge uptime in 60 seconds
• normal dodges with normal endurance Regeneration of 5 per second gives 1 new dodge every 10 seconds -> 6 x 3/4 sec dodges = 4,5 seconds dodge uptime in 60 seconds time periodlets ignore vidor and other endurance regenerating effectsthan we can sum up:49, 3 seconds uptime in 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges...thats ~82 % Uptime in a fight where you cannot clear attack him.

Heal of that class in 60 seconds:

• Brown Bear Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Photosynthesize: ~2500 Heal 20 sec cd -> 7500 Heal in 60 sec
• Troll unguent: 8000 Heal 20 sec cd (skilleld) -> 24000 Heal in 60 seconds.to sum up: 43.100 Heal in a Minute + lifepoints pool of Minimum 16000.

to kill a soulbeast you Need to make nearly 60.000 dmg in a 10 second time window in one Minute where you can attack him. On an enemy that can leap 5 times 1000 Range with GS 3 = 5000 Range and knock back you 5 times per Minute for Minimum of 900 range. ignoring the Problem that necros first have to Close the gap to all ranger classes that can attack you on 1500 range...

Try doing creative math like that with any Mesmer build. You will probably get a -4 second window out 60 where you can attack them.

Wait for them to dodge and spike them at the end of it. If they are popping signet of stone they are bad. Then need the passive from it. The point of soul beast is to do damage fast. Why would someone take two support pets? I think the reason you don't like it is they have access to unblockable attacks. Try using LOS or dodge more like classes have to.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Faux Play.6104 said:The fact that soulbeast is # 2 is hilarious. It seems to be very biased against builds with strong opening attacks. Try using retaliation before the soul beast does their opening burst with one wolf pack. That should be in guardian's kit and will be very effective vs their initial burst of lots of attacks in a very short time frame. As far as druid, yeah it is a good tank build that can hold a side node, but the reason that it is forced to side nodes is firebrand is better than it across the board. The fact that the boon spam Mesmer isn't in your list is the final nail in the coffin for your credibility. Having a class that can have perma quickness, resistance, stab, 25 might, agis coupled with AI attacks that deal over 10k damage is beyond broken.

Soulbeast (with Brown Bear & Jacaranda/ GS+LB):Uptime in a time period of 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges:

• Brown Bear Defy Pain: 3 sec invul with 40 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul uptime in 60 seconds
• Signet of Stone: 6 seconds invul with 80 sec cd -> 4,5 sec invul in 60 seconds
• lesser signet of Stone: 5 sec invul with 70 sec cd -> ~4,2 sec invul in 60 seconds
• GS 4 Counterattack: 3 sec block with 15 seconds cd -> 4 x 3 sec = 12 sec block in 60 seconds
• Longbow 3 Hunters Shoot: 3 sec invis with 10 sec cd (skilled) -> 6 x 3 sec = 18 seconds invis uptime in 60 seconds
• lightning Reflexes: 3/4 sec dodge 32 seconds cd (skilled) -> 2 x 3/4 sec dodge = 1,5 sec dodge uptime in 60 seconds
• normal dodges with normal endurance Regeneration of 5 per second gives 1 new dodge every 10 seconds -> 6 x 3/4 sec dodges = 4,5 seconds dodge uptime in 60 seconds time periodlets ignore vidor and other endurance regenerating effectsthan we can sum up:49, 3 seconds uptime in 60 seconds for Blocks/Invis/Invul/Dodges...thats ~82 % Uptime in a fight where you cannot clear attack him.

Heal of that class in 60 seconds:

• Brown Bear Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Spritual Reprive: ~4200 Heal 40 sec cd -> 6300 Heal in 60 sec
• Jacaranda Photosynthesize: ~2500 Heal 20 sec cd -> 7500 Heal in 60 sec
• Troll unguent: 8000 Heal 20 sec cd (skilleld) -> 24000 Heal in 60 seconds.to sum up: 43.100 Heal in a Minute + lifepoints pool of Minimum 16000.

to kill a soulbeast you Need to make nearly 60.000 dmg in a 10 second time window in one Minute where you can attack him. On an enemy that can leap 5 times 1000 Range with GS 3 = 5000 Range and knock back you 5 times per Minute for Minimum of 900 range. ignoring the Problem that necros first have to Close the gap to all ranger classes that can attack you on 1500 range...

Spiritual Reprieve has a shared cooldown. However, you could take Black Bear and get more damage immunity from Unflinching Fortitude.GS4 is a 3 second block if you are attacking the ranger from range. However, if you hit him from melee it will lock the ranger into an animation. GS4 has a ton of counterplay, one of the best being shadowshot on d/p thief.Marksmanship is not really the best traitline to run in sPvP. You can immunity cheese it, yes, but MM doesn't offer the versatility that other lines do. When I see a Marksmanship Soulbeast, they are usually the easiest kills.If you are taking a bear and a jacaranda, it means that you aren't taking smokescale, which means you won't be doing as much damage and you won't have as much utility.

Not saying you don't have a point, but you are also describing things in a bubble and with a very specific build that most people don't run. Soulbeast is potent when played well, yes, but I wouldn't really call it OP. To me, Soulbeast is the most balanced spec to come from PoF. I hear a lot of people say Holosmith is the most balanced PoF spec, but to me personally, it oozes powercreep in its current implementation. Could Soulbeast be OP in the next patch? Potentially. I guess time will tell.

[Regon Phoenix.8215]

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Tempest, check.Berserker, check.Reaper, check.DH, no.Scrapper, no, not with the recent buffs, its on-par with Soulbeast now.Herald, no, Herald is most likely better than Soulbeast if it got some condition cleanse.Renegade, check.

So, how often do you see scrapper in pvp? I have seen 3 in last week. And all 3 of them were weak, got killed instantly and didn't get any high scores. It might be a case of newbie players playing a class they haven't played before, but then again where are good scrappers?Also, Herald is better than Soulbeast according to you? You just dropped to paper league.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:S/D Thief is absolutely better than Condition Mesmer, Soulbeast, Weaver, Power Guard, Deadeye and Holosmith at the moment, which are on your OP list. So yes, I assumed you thought S/D Thief is fine.

In what shape, size or form it is better than those? Also, stop assuming.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Condition Mesmer and Scourge can sustain damage and put pressure, Deadeye can’t. You either kill him, or he kills you in 3 seconds.

Three round burst can sustain quite a lot of pressure from 1200 range, Condition Mesmer and Scourge can't.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Mesmer and Scourge can deal 2K DPS, but Deadeye needs 15 seconds to do that damage, for maximum malice.

Wait, do you really think Deadeye does nothing while Malice is building up? And did you just said that Deadeye needs 15 seconds until he can deal 2000 damage per second?You just dropped to dust league.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Condition Mesmer can close the gap, and Scourge already has 900 Range on shades and 300 Radius(Sand Savant) so yes, Scourge has 1200 range.

And Deadeye can teleport away. And Scourge have 1200 only on Staff, which have the lowest damage out of all available weapons. So what is your point? Yeah, Mesmer can teleport to Deadeye and Scourge can start shooting with staff at 1200, but Deadeye can enter stealth, teleport, reposition himself, wait till malice builds up, wait for some allies, then one-shot you with single hit.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Yes, I added facts and not exaggerations like 25K SINGLE HIT PLZ NERF I CANT PRESS MY DODGE KEY.

Well, during last game i got hit in the face with 25k Death's Judgment. So, unless you say the game was lying to me, then you have no facts on your side.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Then I understand why you complain about Soulbeast :wink: Seems like you lost some 1v1s and came to complain on forums. Smh. At least be original when calling for nerfs.

Complain? So ranking top strongest classes is complaining? So, if i started playing Druid more often, then that would negate all problems with other classes? Would then Power Mesmers dealing 16k burst from stealth be fine?

And again, why do you make stuff up? Where did i said that Soulbeast should be nerfed? It is broken, but if other classes get buffed to its level then it is fine by me.

You provided nothing but assumption, and constant complain about s/d thief. And you dare to say that i am the one who is complaining.

[Axl.8924]

@Regon Phoenix.8215 said:

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Tempest, check.Berserker, check.Reaper, check.DH, no.Scrapper, no, not with the recent buffs, its on-par with Soulbeast now.Herald, no, Herald is most likely better than Soulbeast if it got some condition cleanse.Renegade, check.

So, how often do you see scrapper in pvp? I have seen 3 in last week. And all 3 of them were weak, got killed instantly and didn't get any high scores. It might be a case of newbie players playing a class they haven't played before, but then again where are good scrappers?Also, Herald is better than Soulbeast according to you? You just dropped to paper league.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:S/D Thief is absolutely better than Condition Mesmer, Soulbeast, Weaver, Power Guard, Deadeye and Holosmith at the moment, which are on your OP list. So yes, I assumed you thought S/D Thief is fine.

In what shape, size or form it is better than those? Also, stop assuming.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Condition Mesmer and Scourge can sustain damage and put pressure, Deadeye can’t. You either kill him, or he kills you in 3 seconds.

Three round burst can sustain quite a lot of pressure from 1200 range, Condition Mesmer and Scourge can't.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Mesmer and Scourge can deal 2K DPS, but Deadeye needs 15 seconds to do that damage, for

maximum malice.

Wait, do you really think Deadeye does nothing while Malice is building up? And did you just said that Deadeye needs 15 seconds until he can deal 2000 damage per second?You just dropped to dust league.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Condition Mesmer can close the gap, and Scourge already has 900 Range on shades and 300 Radius(Sand Savant) so yes, Scourge has 1200 range.

And Deadeye can teleport away. And Scourge have 1200 only on Staff, which have the lowest damage out of all available weapons. So what is your point? Yeah, Mesmer can teleport to Deadeye and Scourge can start shooting with staff at 1200, but Deadeye can enter stealth, teleport, reposition himself, wait till malice builds up, wait for some allies, then one-shot you with single hit.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Yes, I added facts and not exaggerations like

25K SINGLE HIT PLZ NERF I CANT PRESS MY DODGE KEY.

Well, during last game i got hit in the face with 25k Death's Judgment. So, unless you say the game was lying to me, then you have no facts on your side.

@Imperadordf.2687 said:Then I understand why you complain about Soulbeast :wink: Seems like you lost some 1v1s and came to complain on forums. Smh. At least be original when calling for nerfs.

Complain? So ranking top strongest classes is complaining? So, if i started playing Druid more often, then that would negate all problems with other classes? Would then Power Mesmers dealing 16k burst from stealth be fine?

And again, why do you make stuff up? Where did i said that Soulbeast should be nerfed? It is broken, but if other classes get buffed to its level then it is fine by me.

You provided nothing but assumption, and constant complain about s/d thief. And you dare to say that i am the one who is complaining.

I dunno about spvp heralds, but i know that heralds are underpowered in pve.Being niche for 1 boss and not even appearing on list in snow crows shows.

The class shines in 1 raid boss,its super niche, and only for kiting.That elite spec needs good buffing to actually be taken in raids.I hope they get huge buffs that allow herald to actually be taken.