I would be so happy if Anet would reduce the Desert Shroud radius

[anduriell.6280]

That simple detail makes the spec absolutelyT braindead and at the same time so broken.

An scourge just needs to run around with that and nobody can get close to it because almost all skills poop boons. It is kitten.

I say: don't nerf shades anymore, the shade itself the idea is good. It is like a permanent well which you may try to avoid. Which is kinda cool.

However you put those shades plus the Desert Shroud and it's a Joko. I think is ok for that skill to be once time cast and gain the barrier, but right it's impossible to fight against any scourge in no situation. With 1500 range (shade 1200 + radius) even the DeadEye or the ranger have problems to get a hit.It is retarded because you always have swiftness and might on you the amount of corruption + damage conditions any dedicated and empowered condi class can do.

If the Desert Shroud wouldn't have pulses or the radius was in melee range it should fun and fine to play against.

And for the love of God: Delete the Dire and Trailblazzers sets . Anet should have done that from the HoT launch and now it is getting silly.

[SWI.4127]

With Sand Savant and the fact that the shroud also pulses at the necro's location, this spell covers more area than Elementalist's Meteor Shower. Except there is no random element to it...and it pulses 7 times...and it gives a ton of barrier (even without healing power)...and it's a MOVING AOE. It's broken. No other way around it.

[Za Shaloc.3908]

Although I do agree that it's uhealthy in its current implementation, I don't think the Sand Savant trait should be outright removed or have the radius nerfed too harshly. I don't play Scourge in anything but PvE, and I run a healer/support build there. Without Sand Savant I would just straight up stop playing it. One of the special niches of Scourge is to be able to cover large areas with the shades, and that makes it great for mobile content. I think it's healthy enough to have this IF it relates primarily to supporting allies. I will paste what I suggested in the PvP forums, as it still preserves Sand Savant but takes away some of its offensive power in favor of support:

"You can summon only one shade at a time. This greater shade has reduced recharge. You affect more targets and influence a larger area with Shade skills.Additionally, Desert Shroud no longer causes Torment. Instead, it pulses Protection to nearby allies. Barrier you apply to allies gains 20% increased effectiveness."

Something like that. That's just a rough idea. I'm not sure if that alone would really resolve the issues, but I think that Desert Shroud + Sand Savant is what makes it feel so unhealthy. It would still have some offensive power to it, but not as much.

[Ya Ya Yeah.7381]

The Sand Savant is and has been the problem. Its a problem in WvW and its a problem is spvp, its just to big. Now they have nerfed everything else and with the incoming CD increases it still will not stop Scourge. Everyone will just front load the damage against noobs or time it just like they have been doing. I have just come to the conclusion that is what they want. A giant mobile radius condi bomb. It is face roll and the problem now is that they have nerfed just about everything else by means of reducing all the stacks to 1 and now they are increasing the CDs, so that it pretty much is the only optimal way to go. It is very ironic that the one trait that needed attention to reduce the imbalance is the one that is completely being ignored.

[Khailyn.6248]

I dont have an issue with Sand Savant itself, I've a build with it and without it in pve and wvw. My issue is with the Desert Shroud itself and the GM Demonic Lore which is whats causing this toxic condi bomb problem. Either the skill needs less pulses or the trait needs an internal cooldown. It's far too easy to just flood the ground and down people in 2 seconds with no room to dodge anywhere. Sure you COULD nerf Sand Savant but that wont stop them from running into your face to accomplish the same thing. The issue is with the fast and often lethal damage output.

[Warlord.9074]

They should but they won't because they want the game to be bad.

[DeadlySynz.3471]

@"SWI.4127" said:With Sand Savant and the fact that the shroud also pulses at the necro's location, this spell covers more area than Elementalist's Meteor Shower. Except there is no random element to it...and it pulses 7 times...and it gives a ton of barrier (even without healing power)...and it's a MOVING AOE. It's broken. No other way around it.

This is true, but there is a few small details you missed. An elementalist (as you brought this up) has a kitten ton more mobility than a necro has. Not only that, they are far more versatile in healing AND do more dps overall. Forgetting about the last 2 points, just look at the mobility issue alone, yes the necro essentially has 2 pulsing AoE shrouds but they are slower than a slug on valium. You could be crippled or chilled, and still mow them down from a distance before they'd even reach you. What do people exactly expect to become of the class when people like the OP make suggestions like they do?

It is so easy to kill a scourge, so so so damn easy. They are the easiest class to kill bar none, and I completely suck in 1v1 scenarios but if I come across a scourge on any class I play, it's a free kill, even when I'm playing as a scourge. Why? Because of the mobility issue.

More-so for the OP, you want to know why Dire and Trailblazer sets exist? Because somewhere along the line they screwed up the gear sets where mitigating too much damage while outputting too much damage (aka the soldier set). It made the player nearly indestructible to physical damage (even against zerker classes), while outputting heavy damage to any class not dressed in similar gear. That completely annihilated any type of build diversity, and the end result is we had a boon-stacking melee ball (which an FYI still existed when players started leaving en-mass, the meta sucked). That Dire/Trailblazer gear counter that and counters it nicely. What's the counter to a Dire/Trailblazer class (mainly used by necro), a ranged class, ranged zerker. You know what counters a ranged zerker class? That stupid boon-stacking melee ball class. Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Also keep in mind those "condition bomb problems" are equated to multiple condition classes bombing you at once, not 1 person. That is no difference than being leaped at with several melee classes at once. So if the condition bomb is nerfed, so does melee damage across the board, probably by 50-75% at minimum.

[Warlord.9074]

@DeadlySynz.3471 said:

@"SWI.4127" said:With Sand Savant and the fact that the shroud also pulses at the necro's location, this spell covers more area than Elementalist's Meteor Shower. Except there is no random element to it...and it pulses 7 times...and it gives a ton of barrier (even without healing power)...and it's a MOVING AOE. It's broken. No other way around it.

This is true, but there is a few small details you missed. An elementalist (as you brought this up) has a kitten ton more mobility than a necro has. Not only that, they are far more versatile in healing AND do more dps overall. Forgetting about the last 2 points, just look at the mobility issue alone, yes the necro essentially has 2 pulsing AoE shrouds but they are slower than a slug on valium. You could be crippled or chilled, and still mow them down from a distance before they'd even reach you. What do people exactly expect to become of the class when people like the OP make suggestions like they do?

It is so easy to kill a scourge, so so so kitten easy. They are the easiest class to kill bar none, and I completely suck in 1v1 scenarios but if I come across a scourge on any class I play, it's a free kill, even when I'm playing as a scourge. Why? Because of the mobility issue.

More-so for the OP, you want to know why Dire and Trailblazer sets exist? Because somewhere along the line they screwed up the gear sets where mitigating too much damage while outputting too much damage (aka the soldier set). It made the player nearly indestructible to physical damage (even against zerker classes), while outputting heavy damage to any class not dressed in similar gear. That completely annihilated any type of build diversity, and the end result is we had a boon-stacking melee ball (which an FYI still existed when players started leaving en-mass, the meta sucked). That Dire/Trailblazer gear counter that and counters it nicely. What's the counter to a Dire/Trailblazer class (mainly used by necro), a ranged class, ranged zerker. You know what counters a ranged zerker class? That stupid boon-stacking melee ball class. Rock, Paper, Scissors.

Also keep in mind those "condition bomb problems" are equated to multiple condition classes bombing you at once, not 1 person. That is no difference than being leaped at with several melee classes at once. So if the condition bomb is nerfed, so does melee damage across the board, probably by 50-75% at minimum.

An elementalist also isn't low risk, high reward, low skill floor with basic rotations that a monkey could do with high success. who cares about elementalist it's not a problem because it's a balanced class.

Who cares about killing a scourge in 1v1, this is wvw. 1v1 in this game isn't balanced either. Scourage is extremely broken in zergs and thats all that matters.

Dire and trailblazer exist in PVE and WVW only, Soldier also doesn't exist in PVP. Soldier is very balanced. Power dammage requires 3 stats. Power Ferocity and Precision. Soldier is Power, toughness and VItailty. Condition damage only requires on stat condition damage. Its not even comparable. It's a bad argument.

[ReaverKane.7598]

LolIf you're going that close to a Scourge in WvW... Maybe the problem isn't the scourge?

[Sovereign.1093]

=3 scourge is balanced. is love. is life.

counter to scourge, keep your distance. if they near. bomb as one.they are so not tanky.

coordinate a meteor x phasesmash cor x wells. not.many.can go past that. unless 4:1. and even then, if they not good, you can pull off a win.

pirate ship is the scourge's weakness

[Warlord.9074]

@Sovereign.1093 said:=3 scourge is balanced. is love. is life.

counter to scourge, keep your distance. if they near. bomb as one.they are so not tanky.

coordinate a meteor x phasesmash cor x wells. not.many.can go past that. unless 4:1. and even then, if they not good, you can pull off a win.

pirate ship is the scourge's weakness

Yes because Pirate ship is a good meta.

[Kaiser.9873]

Anyone still complaining about Scourge just refuses to adapt. The problem isn't "Scourge too OP!" The problem is that there are LOTS of Scourges. Still takes longer to die to Scourge than to Power Rev, Power weaver, Mesmer, Deadye, Holosmith, or Soulbeast. Scourge are also staring another significant nerf straight in the face.

Been having a ton of success lately with my GS mesmer, and I haven't played GS mesmer in a long time. My power hammer rev outputs far more damage than my Scourge atm, and can be played at 1200 range, which a Scourge cannot effectively. Pure damage? My burn FB is head and shoulders above my Scourge.

Scourge CAN NOT escape focus. Sand Swell is short range that takes way too long to activate to even be considered a true port. Perhaps this is ANet's way of saying run more ranger/druid/soulbeast/Deadeye. Want to kill a Scourge easily? Pull them.

Do I enjoy pirate ship? No, but I also do not enjoy a pure hammer train meta either. I get killed often enough to realize that while Scourge IS very good, it isn't the demigod you Scourge-haters believe it to be.

[Swagger.1459]

@"anduriell.6280" said:That simple detail makes the spec absolutelyT braindead and at the same time so broken.

An scourge just needs to run around with that and nobody can get close to it because almost all skills poop boons. It is kitten.

I say: don't nerf shades anymore, the shade itself the idea is good. It is like a permanent well which you may try to avoid. Which is kinda cool.

However you put those shades plus the Desert Shroud and it's a Joko. I think is ok for that skill to be once time cast and gain the barrier, but right it's impossible to fight against any scourge in no situation. With 1500 range (shade 1200 + radius) even the DeadEye or the ranger have problems to get a hit.It is kitten because you always have swiftness and might on you the amount of corruption + damage conditions any dedicated and empowered condi class can do.

If the Desert Shroud wouldn't have pulses or the radius was in melee range it should fun and fine to play against.

And for the love of God: Delete the Dire and Trailblazzers sets . Anet should have done that from the HoT launch and now it is getting silly.

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Manifest_Sand_Shade

900 range. 180 radius

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Desert_Shroud

180 radius.

...No, they are not removing gear sets.

[Catchyfx.5768]

lol bigger aoe then meteor ? :D good one ,1200 range? another one :D ppl stop hatin. Take friend scourge ot guild arena and practice. Like a always and with everything.

[Jski.6180]

@"Catchyfx.5768" said:lol bigger aoe then meteor ? :D good one ,1200 range? another one :D ppl stop hatin. Take friend scourge ot guild arena and practice. Like a always and with everything.

How long dose scourge have to be rooted to cast desert shroud 0 sec good one.

The level of how much stronger desert shroud and how much better of a dmg class scourge is over an ele is sickening. The scourge will hit 10 targets and the same 10 with its skills if they use desert shroud right something ele can never do with MS. The desert shroud hits hard has condi on it and can be done at longer ranged then MS if done right (drop the pet move back then cast it 900 ranged is long ranged for bit aoe that are 300 in size).

Back to the point the size drop on scorge effects will not fix the class it may make it stronger much like making some effects like stadice field smaller makes it a better tool to land cc. The problem with scorge is that all of its f1-f5 effects are x2 due to having the effect at the scorge feet and where there "pet" is. There is nothing in the game that can up its number of targets x2 by using one skills like this and feels very out of places for a high burst condi class with high support self and pt (such effect fit pure mages far better).

[SWI.4127]

@Catchyfx.5768 said:lol bigger aoe then meteor ? :D good one ,1200 range? another one :D ppl stop hatin. Take friend scourge ot guild arena and practice. Like a always and with everything.

Do the math, it is a fact that it covers more area than meteor because it is 2 AoEs with 300 radius each. Unless they are casting it on top of themselves.

Scourge: 300 unit radius = roughly 282,743 area. Multiply it by 2 since it also pulses at Necro's location... That's 565,486 units squared of area covered.Meteor Shower: 360 unit radius = 407,150 area covered

See, my statement sounded so ridiculous, you just assumed it was me exaggerating. In actuality it is a fact, and it's not even that close. That should tell you something.

[Sovereign.1093]

got my dh sb thief thirf chrono team yesterday. was good against oposing fb scourge. :/ maybe our friejds dont think synergof skills?