Do you think Ele should ever get Weapon Swap?

[wardog.3598]

I am not inherently against a weapon swap ability in an elite spec for ele, but I think if it was ever to happen there must be some kind of exchange like maybe a limitation of the elements you access to.

[vicious.5683]

Why is this even a question? Ofc not!Except in a new spec that removes Attunement mechanic.

[foozlesprite.8051]

I'd really love to get weapon swapping as an ele (in PVE). I love the sword's flavor and playstyle, but I find it pointless while running bounties because if a boss has phase-shifting, I feel next to useless for half the fight. I know it wasn't intended as such, but it kind of seems like a slap in the face to introduce that mechanic at the same time they introduce the sword.

It would be fun to experiment with warhorn as an offhand with it, but allowing dual-specializations would open up a huge can of worms that doesn't need opened.

[Haco.1546]

That's why I always wanted the elemental weapons to be like the engineer kits (and with that the engineer does not have that kind of problem), I can not understand the logic of having recharge in these elemental weapons. Countless and countless times I've already needed to switch from a short-range weapon to a long-range one. "Oh, but the elementalist has the attunement and can exchange between them, after all are like weapons"... Serious? I do not know where that people see the attunement as a weapon exchange because for me they are attunement same, it is pretty much all the same with a different condition, animation and some mechanics. But I know that this will not happen by the scenery I see in the MMORPG: People are accommodated and can not think outside the box and Arenanet is not like that. I imagine that not only they but several others have had great ideas but that were not put into practice for that reason. This is not a criticism for evil but for good though not much to do...

[Jski.6180]

@"Haco.1546" said:That's why I always wanted the elemental weapons to be like the engineer kits (and with that the engineer does not have that kind of problem), I can not understand the logic of having recharge in these elemental weapons. Countless and countless times I've already needed to switch from a short-range weapon to a long-range one. "Oh, but the elementalist has the attunement and can exchange between them, after all are like weapons"... Serious? I do not know where that people see the attunement as a weapon exchange because for me they are attunement same, it is pretty much all the same with a different condition, animation and some mechanics. But I know that this will not happen by the scenery I see in the MMORPG: People are accommodated and can not think outside the box and Arenanet is not like that. I imagine that not only they but several others have had great ideas but that were not put into practice for that reason. This is not a criticism for evil but for good though not much to do...

In most mmorpg they simply make elemental magic very in ranged i do not get why they comply forgot that old rpg logic of different magic elements types have different types of cast range.

[michelada.2947]

pffffff, of course not , you have 20 skills on weapon + 6 dual skills

[Jski.6180]

@michelada.2947 said:pffffff, of course not , you have 20 skills on weapon + 6 dual skills

20 ranged skills and also 6 duel skills or 20 melee skills and also 6 melee dual skills see the problem?

[Haco.1546]

You don't need to have weapon swap, just that the elemental weapons are the same as the engineer kits, as I said before and I won't get tired of saying it. This already causes you to sacrifice your slot that could have another skill, after all are only 3. I'm boring, I know, but that's. (Elementals like those of the necromancer and the ice elemental of the mage of Wow would be asking too much, I know, but that's what I think) <3 :)

[ThiBash.5634]

A staff tempest has both ranged and melee skills.

To be honest, I don't really understand the whole range/melee issue that some players have with the ele. I find that most weapons have enough variety to handle fights from any range. For example, dagger has multiple gap closers and compensates its short range by having 'bigger than melee' range on most of its skills. Scepter can be combined with dagger, focus or warhorn to have a mix of mobility, close and/or long range skills. Staff has 1200 range, but its skills can be used just as effectively at point blank range (there's a youtube video out there with a PvP staff ele showing how to use static field to reliably land an ice spike/lava font combo for example). The only weapon that is limited by range imho is sword, which coïncidentally is why I like it the least of all ele weapons. For all the other weapons, you just gotta be creative.

Other professions have their range defined by their weapons. For ele, the difference is in combat style, not range. But again, that's just my opinion.

[michelada.2947]

@Jski.6180 said:

@michelada.2947 said:pffffff, of course not , you have 20 skills on weapon + 6 dual skills

20 ranged skills and also 6 duel skills or 20 melee skills and also 6 melee dual skills see the problem?

what problem? , 26 skills !!!!!! , do you know how to count?, engis only can have 5 and if you want to take 5 more you have to sacrifice one of your utility slots , the skills of the class have nice variety of options to build weaver the way you want, saying that sword lack range options when you have 2 gap closers on weapon, 3 if you go dagger , 4 if you pick lighting flash make no sense at all, also remember that a melee weapon usually is tied to a close combat class, if you want some range go staff or scepter.

[Dadnir.5038]

@michelada.2947 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@michelada.2947 said:pffffff, of course not , you have 20 skills on weapon + 6 dual skills

20 ranged skills and also 6 duel skills or 20 melee skills and also 6 melee dual skills see the problem?

what problem? , 26 skills !!!!!! , do you know how to count?, engis only can have 5 and if you want to take 5 more you have to sacrifice one of your utility slots , the skills of the class have nice variety of options to build weaver the way you want, saying that sword lack range options when you have 2 gap closers on weapon, 3 if you go dagger , 4 if you pick lighting flash make no sense at all, also remember that a melee weapon usually is tied to a close combat class, if you want some range go staff or scepter.

Good luck, I already tried hard to make him understand but it's argument will most likely be that "it's not efficient" and "other professions do better".

[Jski.6180]

@michelada.2947 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@michelada.2947 said:pffffff, of course not , you have 20 skills on weapon + 6 dual skills

20 ranged skills and also 6 duel skills or 20 melee skills and also 6 melee dual skills see the problem?

what problem? , 26 skills !!!!!! , do you know how to count?, engis only can have 5 and if you want to take 5 more you have to sacrifice one of your utility slots , the skills of the class have nice variety of options to build weaver the way you want, saying that sword lack range options when you have 2 gap closers on weapon, 3 if you go dagger , 4 if you pick lighting flash make no sense at all, also remember that a melee weapon usually is tied to a close combat class, if you want some range go staff or scepter.

The problem is not amount its quality and use. Ele has a lot of pointless skills as well as skills that are simply copies of others. Ele is missing a ranged atument and a melee atument so your 26 skills all mean nothing if they are all melee and well you cant go into melee ranged at all or worst yet if all of your skills are projectiles and the game play (wvw) is nothing but projectile hate.

[ThiBash.5634]

@Jski.6180 said:Ele is missing a ranged atument and a melee atument so your 26 skills all mean nothing if they are all melee and well you cant go into melee ranged at all or worst yet if all of your skills are projectiles and the game play (wvw) is nothing but projectile hate.If you combine sword or dagger with focus, you'll have a good mix of ranged and melee skills. If you really feel that you should have a ranged option when you go full melee (sword/dagger or dagger/dagger) then you could still equip Lava Axe or Fiery Greatsword to get access to ranged skills. As for projectile hate, the only projectile skills for staff are the auto attacks (which you generally use the least anyway). Same goes for scepter, except it's just 2 auto attacks there.

Ele has its challenges, but I don't feel that range/melee is one of them. The tools to bypass range issues are there, but you'll have to adjust your build for them. If you go full melee on another profession, you'll run into the same problems as you do when you go full melee on elementalist. If you simply play staff, well, then there are no range issues because staff skills work just as well in melee as they do at range.

[Cyrin.1035]

@ThiBash.5634 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Ele is missing a ranged atument and a melee atument so your 26 skills all mean nothing if they are all melee and well you cant go into melee ranged at all or worst yet if all of your skills are projectiles and the game play (wvw) is nothing but projectile hate.If you combine sword or dagger with focus, you'll have a good mix of ranged and melee skills. If you really feel that you should have a ranged option when you go full melee (sword/dagger or dagger/dagger) then you could still equip Lava Axe or Fiery Greatsword to get access to ranged skills. As for projectile hate, the only projectile skills for staff are the auto attacks (which you generally use the least anyway). Same goes for scepter, except it's just 2 auto attacks there.

Ele has its challenges, but I don't feel that range/melee is one of them. The tools to bypass range issues are there, but you'll have to adjust your build for them. If you go full melee on another profession, you'll run into the same problems as you do when you go full melee on elementalist. If you simply play staff, well, then there are no range issues because staff skills work just as well in melee as they do at range.

I admire your support for Ele, ThiBash, unfortunately, everything you have stated here is either incorrect or inexperienced. Please thoroughly test the builds you suggest against a Ranger/Longbow Druid that just showed up in your melee fight, while you had a sword and focus and send me a video of your victory.

[Jski.6180]

@ThiBash.5634 said:

@Jski.6180 said:Ele is missing a ranged atument and a melee atument so your 26 skills all mean nothing if they are all melee and well you cant go into melee ranged at all or worst yet if all of your skills are projectiles and the game play (wvw) is nothing but projectile hate.If you combine sword or dagger with focus, you'll have a good mix of ranged and melee skills. If you really feel that you should have a ranged option when you go full melee (sword/dagger or dagger/dagger) then you could still equip Lava Axe or Fiery Greatsword to get access to ranged skills. As for projectile hate, the only projectile skills for staff are the auto attacks (which you generally use the least anyway). Same goes for scepter, except it's just 2 auto attacks there.

Ele has its challenges, but I don't feel that range/melee is one of them. The tools to bypass range issues are there, but you'll have to adjust your build for them. If you go full melee on another profession, you'll run into the same problems as you do when you go full melee on elementalist. If you simply play staff, well, then there are no range issues because staff skills work just as well in melee as they do at range.

What your suggesting is to use the focse as a real ranged wepon? It dose not work sadly at best its some def vs ranged but not a lot the unblockables are real in the game and its dose not have enofe cc to let you get in and do enofe dmg. As for projectiles for staff most of the dps skills are projectile as well as all of the duel skills are projectiles. You have some burst that not projectile but often its easy to get out of to the point of not doing real dmg.

[ThiBash.5634]

@Cyrin.1035 said:I admire your support for Ele, ThiBash, unfortunately, everything you have stated here is either incorrect or inexperienced. Please thoroughly test the builds you suggest against a Ranger/Longbow Druid that just showed up in your melee fight, while you had a sword and focus and send me a video of your victory.

The discussion was about whether weapon swap would solve the elementalist's range problem. Assuming your premise that everything I wrote before is wrong, switching to any other weapon set would still result in losing the fight. That means that ele does not need weapon swap because it doesn't change anything.

Having said that, the only situations where you cannot close the range gap would be either in WvW zerg/keep assault (and it's debatable if having ranged options would give you a better chance) or sPvP with a ranger rooting you (which is a disadvantagous situation you should avoid anyway).

@Jski.6180 said:What your suggesting is to use the focse as a real ranged wepon? It dose not work sadly at best its some def vs ranged but not a lot the unblockables are real in the game and its dose not have enofe cc to let you get in and do enofe dmg.If you pick any other profession and give them both a range and a melee weapon, half your skills will be ranged, and half of them melee. Adding a focus (ranged) to a sword or dagger (melee) will give you roughly that: 50/50 ranged and melee. Whether that will give you an edge during combat is another matter entirely, but it will solve your range problem.

@Jski.6180 said:As for projectiles for staff most of the dps skills are projectile as well as all of the duel skills are projectiles. You have some burst that not projectile but often its easy to get out of to the point of not doing real dmg.Apples and oranges. Skills being ineffective isn't a good argument for adding weapon swap. It is however a good argument to alter said skills.

EDIT:Basically, what I'm trying to say is that ele's (and engineer) unique 'flair' is that its 'weaponset' mechanic differs from other professions. It is for the player to work with a diffent set of rules, which brings its own advantages and disadvantages. If there are issues with specific weapons or skills, those issues should be adressed. Making eles function the same as any other profession however, is not the correct solution for the issues you point out.

[Cyrin.1035]

The discussion was about whether weapon swap would solve the elementalist's range problem. Assuming your premise that everything I wrote before is wrong, switching to any other weapon set would still result in losing the fight. That means that ele does not need weapon swap because it doesn't change anything.

The discussion is about wep swap for Ele especially when it’s a sword weaver. Swapping to a range weapon makes all the difference. It means you aren’t wasting time trying to make up for your range deficiency. You can actually compete.

Having said that, the only situations where you cannot close the range gap would be either in WvW zerg/keep assault (and it's debatable if having ranged options would give you a better chance) or sPvP with a ranger rooting you (which is a disadvantagous situation you should avoid anyway).

There are many situations in which you cannot close the gap. Claiming those are the only situations is where the inexperience is evident.

Adding a focus (ranged) to a sword or dagger (melee) will give you roughly that: 50/50 ranged and melee. Whether that will give you an edge during combat is another matter entirely, but it will solve your range problem.

This is incorrect. There is a clear difference between a main-hand and off-hand weapon by design. Your main-hand is your primary weapon and by default does more damage consistently and has faster recharge because it is used primarily. Your off-hand is essentially a support weapon that is used either as utility, burst, or support for your primary to be even more effective. Any player that believes an off-hand is on the same level of use as a primary does not understand how the main-hand/off-hand design functions.

That will NOT solve your range problem and should never be thought of as a consistent range option. They have two different roles and types of effectiveness. Whether that gives you an edge during combat is entirely what this topic is about. Because it does not give you a viable option for consistent range, the sword Ele lacks viable range versatility and will not survive a high-dps range fight as soon as that situation arises.

The ranger you engage in melee will see your obvious weakness, know that there is nothing in your arsenal that can compete, and will swap to their long range weapon to put you down. Your conjured ice bow or flame axe will hit them like a wet noodle... if it even hits them at all. And to even hit them you need to get into range first. Meanwhile, that ranger is wondering what that nub-cake weaver was even thinking.

Apples and oranges. Skills being ineffective isn't a good argument for adding weapon swap. It is however a good argument to alter said skills.

More like day and night. Melee/range versatility in-combat is not a debate. You can either compete in either scenario or you can't. It's a day and night situation. The introduction of the sword weaver has made this apparent.

I think either implementation would require too much work and cause too much imbalance. The best idea would be to make a swap-like mechanic in an elite spec built around it. Making your attunement swap also swap your weapon and limiting to two attunements per weapon. Or by giving melee and ranged options in skills for every two attunements. I would be happy if they altered skills on current weps, but I don't see them doing that anymore than others see them adding a wep swap to the class.

Basically, what I'm trying to say is that ele's (and engineer) unique 'flair' is that its 'weaponset' mechanic differs from other professions. It is for the player to work with a diffent set of rules, which brings its own advantages and disadvantages. If there are issues with specific weapons or skills, those issues should be adressed. Making eles function the same as any other profession however, is not the correct solution for the issues you point out.

I can agree with this. Either giving current weapons consistent and effective range or giving an elite spec that allows melee and range versatility, so you are not stuck in a situation where you brought a sword to an unexpected 1200-1500 range fight.

[Jski.6180]

@ThiBash.5634 said:

@Cyrin.1035 said:I admire your support for Ele, ThiBash, unfortunately, everything you have stated here is either incorrect or inexperienced. Please thoroughly test the builds you suggest against a Ranger/Longbow Druid that just showed up in your melee fight, while you had a sword and focus and send me a video of your victory.

The discussion was about whether weapon swap would solve the elementalist's range problem. Assuming your premise that everything I wrote before is wrong, switching to any other weapon set would still result in losing the fight. That means that ele does not need weapon swap because it doesn't change anything.

Having said that, the only situations where you cannot close the range gap would be either in WvW zerg/keep assault (and it's debatable if having ranged options would give you a better chance) or sPvP with a ranger rooting you (which is a disadvantagous situation you should avoid anyway).

@Jski.6180 said:What your suggesting is to use the focse as a real ranged wepon? It dose not work sadly at best its some def vs ranged but not a lot the unblockables are real in the game and its dose not have enofe cc to let you get in and do enofe dmg.If you pick any other profession and give them both a range and a melee weapon, half your skills will be ranged, and half of them melee. Adding a focus (ranged) to a sword or dagger (melee) will give you roughly that: 50/50 ranged and melee. Whether that will give you an edge during combat is another matter entirely, but it will solve your range problem.

@Jski.6180 said:As for projectiles for staff most of the dps skills are projectile as well as all of the duel skills are projectiles. You have some burst that not projectile but often its easy to get out of to the point of not doing real dmg.Apples and oranges. Skills being ineffective isn't a good argument for adding weapon swap. It is however a good argument to alter said skills.

EDIT:Basically, what I'm trying to say is that ele's (and engineer) unique 'flair' is that its 'weaponset' mechanic differs from other professions. It is for the player to work with a diffent set of rules, which brings its own advantages and disadvantages. If there are issues with specific weapons or skills, those issues should be adressed. Making eles function the same as any other profession however, is not the correct solution for the issues you point out.

Still about the fact that you have a lot of copy skills that tend to do the same thing other then looks different. What the point of having a melee ranged skill that dose power dmg the same as another. Or having skills that are ranged but can only travel on the ground. The issue is atuments dmg effect on weapons look the same as each other in effects yes there variation on the non dmg aimed skills but you have many many simulate skills and this should not be the way ele is made and should be fixed. Its the atuments that should be making skills different more so then the wepon the ele has but that is not the way it works so having a wepon swap would give you more skill types and attk types then your atument swap with the current system and that is NOT how mages should work.

[ThiBash.5634]

@Cyrin.1035 said:The discussion is about wep swap for Ele especially when it’s a sword weaver. Swapping to a range weapon makes all the difference. It means you aren’t wasting time trying to make up for your range deficiency. You can actually compete.You can compete by making up for your range deficiency. That's what sets ele apart from other professions. The difference between in design is what they get in return for what they give up. Where other professions can freely swap between ranged and melee weapons and use their 6-0 skills for utility, the ele has a lot of utility in their weapon by default, but as a tradeoff has to adjust to ranged combat in a different manner.

@Cyrin.1035 said:There are many situations in which you cannot close the gap. Claiming those are the only situations is where the inexperience is evident.Could you accept that instead of being inexperienced, my experiences are just different? I was hinting at some common PvP situations where range can be an issue. I never claimed to supply an exhaustive list. In a lot of other disadvantageous situations, which aren't quite so bad, the ele's toolkit is more than up for the challenge of closing the gap quickly.

@Cyrin.1035 said:This is incorrect. There is a clear difference between a main-hand and off-hand weapon by design. Your off-hand is essentially a support weapon that is used either as utility, burst, or support for your primary to be even more effective.Or make up for the lack of range by adding some 1200 range weapon skills. It's not the whole solution, but it also shows that you can in fact make a melee build with ranged skills should you choose to do so.

@Cyrin.1035 said:That will NOT solve your range problem and should never be thought of as a consistent range option. They have two different roles and types of effectiveness. Whether that gives you an edge during combat is entirely what this topic is about. Because it does not give you a viable option for consistent range, the sword Ele lacks viable range versatility and will not survive a high-dps range fight as soon as that situation arises.

The ranger you engage in melee will see your obvious weakness, know that there is nothing in your arsenal that can compete, and will swap to their long range weapon to put you down. Your conjured ice bow or flame axe will hit them like a wet noodle... if it even hits them at all. And to even hit them you need to get into range first. Meanwhile, that ranger is wondering what that nub-cake weaver was even thinking.The original statement was that sword weaver doesn't have any range options. I've attempted to show that that simply isn't true. I agree that if the available options aren't sufficient, then they should be improved. But even as they are now, they can be used as filler while you attempt to close the gap. The ele has a lot of snares, teleports, stuns, superspeed and ranged defense available. Even when not taking terrain advantage into account, that is plenty to take down that player fighting you at range. It's not the easy solution of just swapping to long ranged skills, but that's what makes ele different from ranger. You have to work with what you have and there's plenty to work with.

@Cyrin.1035 said:More like day and night. Melee/range versatility in-combat is not a debate. You can either compete in either scenario or you can't. It's a day and night situation. The introduction of the sword weaver has made this apparent.You can compete by using the tools you have to close the range. Before sword weaver, this wasn't generally seen as an issue. Agreed, sword's range is very short, but on the other hand, if that's what you choose to play, you gotta accept the downsides too. You can't get great utility AND melee burst AND range. One of them has to go for balance reasons.

@Cyrin.1035 said:I think either implementation would require too much work and cause too much imbalance. The best idea would be to make a swap-like mechanic in an elite spec built around it. Making your attunement swap also swap your weapon and limiting to two attunements per weapon. Or by giving melee and ranged options in skills for every two attunements. I would be happy if they altered skills on current weps, but I don't see them doing that anymore than others see them adding a wep swap to the class.As a new elite spec, I can see this work. By limiting the ele to specific attunements, access to the utility skills could be limited. No weapons swap is currently balanced by adding a lot of other stuff like healing, condition removal, cc, combo fields/finishers etc. Take that away and the ele would be more balanced for weapon swap. An elite spec would be the perfect way to add that.

@Jski.6180 said:Still about the fact that you have a lot of copy skills that tend to do the same thing other then looks different. What the point of having a melee ranged skill that dose power dmg the same as another.I understand what you're trying to say, but they're often not quite the same. And if they are, they allow you to use the same sort of skill more often than you would if you had just 1 weapon bar. Even in the auto attacks there are often subtle differences that make them more useful in different situations.

Take staff for example: Ice Spike and Eruption are virtually the same right? But having them both allows you to cast them at the same time over a Lava Font to trigger 2 blast finishers. even if you'd cut Ice Spike or Eruption's cooldown in half, you still wouldn't be able to do that if you had just either of them.

[Dayra.7405]

My old proposal to this day-1 problem (you cannot switch between long-range and meelee skills while in combat) is:

• you get 2 weapons, but
• you get only the attunements you actually skilled the core-specialization for and you only get conjured weapons (e.g. ice-bow), if you skilled arcane.

So you can have 2 weapons and depending on you skilling:

• 3 attunements, but no elite and no conjured weapons
• 2 attunements, but either no elite or no conjured weapons
• 1 attunemt and an elite and conjured weapons

Of course, after such a change ele needs a new rebalancing.

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

Apparently the issue isn't weapon swap. The OP feels that it's too hard for elementalists to swap between range and melee. I don't think that's true as described in the thread: plenty of meta builds for other classes also have no ranged set. Mesmers, for example, can use GS (1200) or Staff (900), but those are huge DPS losses in PvE.

But even if it were true, there are other ways to address the issue other than changing how elementalists work including adjusting the range for scepter, adjusting the range for dagger, adjusting the range for just one of the attunements, changing how summoned weapons work, etc.

I'm not entirely against the idea, but I didn't see anything in the thread that convinces me that it's something ANet should pursue.

[TwilightSoul.9048]

Short Answer: No

Longer Answer: No, because... what? I've been playing mostly Ele for 6 Years (in August) and have never had the feeling that I'm missing anything by not having a Weapon swap. Weapon swap only serves one purpose: To give a class the ability to quickly adapt to one situation or another during combat by switching to a more appropriate weapon. And while Ele could certainly gain an advantage by beeing able to do so, that advantage would be so far out of proportion compared to other classes that you might as well delete all other classes in the process as they'll become irrelevant. Imagine a Staff Ele switching to another Weapon set when all meaningful Staff skills are on Cooldown in order to gain access to even more powerful skills, or in a WvW/PvP environment, an Ele switching between Dagger/Focus - Sword/Dagger or whatever you prefer, how the bloody hell is that build ever going to die?! And even if it'll be a new spec without Weaver's Sword, how do you balance a class that can have access to both Dagger Offhand and Focus offhand without it beeing either useless or immortal?Of course you could add more limitations to Ele's weapon swap than other classes have but then it'll still be broken in PvE context. Ele is already the most powerful class Dmg-wise on dummy bosses.On a different level, what would Weapon Swap add to Ele? We're already one of the most versatile classes, we already play many different roles, we have roaming builds, healer/support builds and most notably dps builds and even gimmicky-one-shot-wonder builds and some sort of brawler in Sword Weaver. What kind of new builds would weapon swap offer to us? Nothing, it'd just make all excisting builds a lot more powerful. Damn if I could swap between Sword/Dagger or focus and Staff in WvW I'd never die again while still getting a million kills/assists...

If we'd be talking about Engineer then I could come up with some good points for weapon swap but on Ele... No.

[ZDragon.3046]

@Jski.6180 said:

@michelada.2947 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@michelada.2947 said:pffffff, of course not , you have 20 skills on weapon + 6 dual skills

20 ranged skills and also 6 duel skills or 20 melee skills and also 6 melee dual skills see the problem?

what problem? , 26 skills !!!!!! , do you know how to count?, engis only can have 5 and if you want to take 5 more you have to sacrifice one of your utility slots , the skills of the class have nice variety of options to build weaver the way you want, saying that sword lack range options when you have 2 gap closers on weapon, 3 if you go dagger , 4 if you pick lighting flash make no sense at all, also remember that a melee weapon usually is tied to a close combat class, if you want some range go staff or scepter.

The problem is not amount its quality and use. Ele has a lot of pointless skills as well as skills that are simply copies of others. Ele is missing a ranged atument and a melee atument so your 26 skills all mean nothing if they are all melee and well you cant go into melee ranged at all or worst yet if all of your skills are projectiles and the game play (wvw) is nothing but projectile hate.

Thats pretty false honestly. Ele has some of the most useful tools in the game in fact if you play weaver you end up using just about all the weapon skills in your rotations so im not sure where you get useless skills from? Ele makes use of all its weapon skills better than most other professions who have at least a weapon or 2 thats just 100% pointless to the profession and is rarely used.

Ele prob has the best well round weapon skills in the game and you are calling them useless? Which skills would you be referring I dont know many ele weapon skills that are useless or have not killed me several times over or stopped me from being able to kill said ele several times over. The fact that you have options for auras, reflects, invuln, and other cc's on your weapon skills is pretty top notch imo.

I dont even play weaver that much and I can see the potential in attunment swaps vs weapon swaps. Ele is no doubt well rounded

The only way i can see them allowing this is by removing up to 2 attunments and making the profession more like rev where you can only swap between the same 2 elements at a time while in combat at that point they could allow weapon swapping on ele. But without some solid weapon to make that play style work most players would likely not like the idea of it.

[Jski.6180]

@ZDragon.3046 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@michelada.2947 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@michelada.2947 said:pffffff, of course not , you have 20 skills on weapon + 6 dual skills

20 ranged skills and also 6 duel skills or 20 melee skills and also 6 melee dual skills see the problem?

what problem? , 26 skills !!!!!! , do you know how to count?, engis only can have 5 and if you want to take 5 more you have to sacrifice one of your utility slots , the skills of the class have nice variety of options to build weaver the way you want, saying that sword lack range options when you have 2 gap closers on weapon, 3 if you go dagger , 4 if you pick lighting flash make no sense at all, also remember that a melee weapon usually is tied to a close combat class, if you want some range go staff or scepter.

The problem is not amount its quality and use. Ele has a lot of pointless skills as well as skills that are simply copies of others. Ele is missing a ranged atument and a melee atument so your 26 skills all mean nothing if they are all melee and well you cant go into melee ranged at all or worst yet if all of your skills are projectiles and the game play (wvw) is nothing but projectile hate.

Thats pretty false honestly. Ele has some of the most useful tools in the game in fact if you play weaver you end up using just about all the weapon skills in your rotations so im not sure where you get useless skills from? Ele makes use of all its weapon skills better than most other professions who have at least a weapon or 2 thats just 100% pointless to the profession and is rarely used.

Ele prob has the best well round weapon skills in the game and you are calling them useless? Which skills would you be referring I dont know many ele weapon skills that are useless or have not killed me several times over or stopped me from being able to kill said ele several times over. The fact that you have options for auras, reflects, invuln, and other cc's on your weapon skills is pretty top notch imo.

I dont even play weaver that much and I can see the potential in attunment swaps vs weapon swaps. Ele is no doubt well rounded

The only way i can see them allowing this is by removing up to 2 attunments and making the profession more like rev where you can only swap between the same 2 elements at a time while in combat at that point they could allow weapon swapping on ele. But without some solid weapon to make that play style work most players would likely not like the idea of it.

Well no ele has the fewest ways of dmg types in the game other then say gurd it can also burn and bleed as well as physical dmg but that it on-top of that ele has no means of counter boon effect on there attks very limited unblockable tool as well. All being locked into one type of general ranged of attks due to the lack of real skill diversely.

Ele has phical dmg skills with its phical dmg skills that apply low amounts of soft cc with its "rare" condi dmg that locked behind 2 atuments. This is ok but when you start to add in the lock in of ranged type is when it becomes a real problem. If ele is d/d is it a melee class if its a d/f it is a melee class if you need to deal with ranged classes your simply out of luck if you need to deal with a game play that needs you to ranged at all your out of luck. You can say the same thing for staff to a point with projecital hate.

Ele has a lot of tools when you using one wepon or another but your locked into that set of tools (the talk that going on here and has been going on) you simply cant get all of the foces skills when your runing a staff you cant get all of the dmg tool of off hand dagger when your running a foces. This lock in attk set is one of the main problem with the class.

Every one can tell you dont play weaver because you do not understand the level of problems with its duel skills and sword of 130 ranages.

I am talking about making attunments more mixed where you have a real chose of different skills from attument to attunment and not just have the skill differences from wepon to wepon as it is now.

[Cyrin.1035]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Apparently the issue isn't weapon swap. The OP feels that it's too hard for elementalists to swap between range and melee. I don't think that's true as described in the thread: plenty of meta builds for other classes also have no ranged set. Mesmers, for example, can use GS (1200) or Staff (900), but those are huge DPS losses in PvE.

But even if it were true, there are other ways to address the issue other than changing how elementalists work including adjusting the range for scepter, adjusting the range for dagger, adjusting the range for just one of the attunements, changing how summoned weapons work, etc.

I'm not entirely against the idea, but I didn't see anything in the thread that convinces me that it's something ANet should pursue.

No, it's either not possible or ineffective. It doesn't matter if you think it's true. That's how it is. If you go into a fight with a sword Ele and the fight turns into a high-dps long range fight, you are at a severe disadvantage and you will likely lose if your opponent knows how to take advantage of that weakness.

Yes, altering skills is an option, but you need to consider how much you are affecting both the class and other classes with those skill changes. An elite spec designed for using alternate native weapons is far more feasible than the amount of work altering skills would take.

I have not seen anything in this thread that convinces me that it's something Anet should not pursue. The only arguments are: "The no wep swap mechanic is how it was from the beginning so it should stay the same! :s " or "Guys we have tons of skills with our attunements! Who cares if any of them have effective range dps!" or "We have conjured weps!! Yes conjured weps!! They are completely ineffective for long range but we have them!! YEAHHH!"

If this is the argument of the majority of Sword Weavers, then please keep bringing them to PvP and WvW. I always enjoy easy kills ;)