Do you think Ele should ever get Weapon Swap?

[Illconceived Was Na.9781]

@Cyrin.1035 said:

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" said:Apparently the issue isn't weapon swap. The OP feels that it's too hard for elementalists to swap between range and melee. I don't think that's true as described in the thread: plenty of meta builds for other classes also have no ranged set. Mesmers, for example, can use GS (1200) or Staff (900), but those are huge DPS losses in PvE.

But even if it were true, there are other ways to address the issue other than changing how elementalists work including adjusting the range for scepter, adjusting the range for dagger, adjusting the range for just one of the attunements, changing how summoned weapons work, etc.

I'm not entirely against the idea, but I didn't see anything in the thread that convinces me that it's something ANet should pursue.

No, it's either not possible or ineffective. It doesn't matter if you think it's true.Somehow I don't see that as a compelling argument for ANet to reconsider their plans.

That's how it is. If you go into a fight with a sword Ele and the fight turns into a high-dps long range fight, you are at a severe disadvantage and you will likely lose if your opponent knows how to take advantage of that weakness.Just as the ranged attacker will lose the fight if it turns into a high-DPS short range fight. Your opponent will lose if you know how to take advantage of their weakness. That's not an argument to change mechanics; that's an argument that people need to know how to deal with the weakness of their own builds.

Yes, altering skills is an option, but you need to consider how much you are affecting both the class and other classes with those skill changes. An elite spec designed for using alternate native weapons is far more feasible than the amount of work altering skills would take.You do realize that is the exact argument against making a change to allow elementalists an extra weapon swap. "You need to consider how much you are affecting the class and other classes."

I have not seen anything in this thread that convinces me that it's something Anet should not pursue.The only arguments are that "The wep swap is how it was from the beginning so it should stay the same! :s " or "Guys we have tons of skills with our attunements! Who cares if any of them have effective range dps!" or "We have conjured weps!! Yes conjured weps!! They are completely ineffective for long range but we have them!! YEAHHH!"You are asking for ANet to change the system. The burden is on you to convince others that there's something wrong with the status quo.

Again, I'm not fundamentally against the idea. I just think there needs to be a better argument in favor of changing the status quo besides, "some sword weavers lose fights against ranged attackers."

Regardless, it's not me (or anyone else in the thread) that needs to be convinced; it's ANet. If you think the argument is strong enough for them, well, then don't worry about my critique of the details. If you're willing to consider the possibility that the argument could be improved, then I hope my comments are useful in doing so. And, again, if not, don't worry about it.

[Cyrin.1035]

@"Illconceived Was Na.9781" saidJust as the ranged attacker will lose the fight if it turns into a high-DPS short range fight. Your opponent will lose if you know how to take advantage of their weakness. That's not an argument to change mechanics; that's an argument that people need to know how to deal with the weakness of their own builds.

The ranged attacker shouldn't lose in a high-dps melee either. They would simply swap to their melee weps to adequately compete. This ranged attacker would never even allow the weaver to get into range.

This isn't a weakness you just deal with. Having the option for an effective melee and range ability in-combat for any weapon is a fundamental ability that every other profession has through their weapon skills or utilities. Ele lacks that ability when using a sword. You can either hope that ranged attacker is awful and allows your sword weaver to get within range or you feed their game score. Those are the sword weaver's options.

As I mentioned in previous posts on this thread, it is of course possible to win as a sword weaver against a long range attacker. But it's far more redundant, time-consuming, and dependant on too many factors such as your opponent slipping up.

You do realize that is the exact argument against making a change to allow elementalists an extra weapon swap. "You need to consider how much you are affecting the class and other classes."

Making an elite spec designed around such a change is not the same argument as just giving Ele wep swap. It depends on how that elite spec is designed. Whether it's changing skills already in place that have already been balanced around or giving new abilties that are balanced around the skills already in place.

You are asking for ANet to change the system. The burden is on you to convince others that there's something wrong with the status quo.

Again, I'm not fundamentally against the idea. I just think there needs to be a better argument in favor of changing the status quo besides, "some sword weavers lose fights against ranged attackers."

Regardless, it's not me (or anyone else in the thread) that needs to be convinced; it's ANet. If you think the argument is strong enough for them, well, then don't worry about my critique of the details. If you're willing to consider the possibility that the argument could be improved, then I hope my comments are useful in doing so. And, again, if not, don't worry about it.

Being the only profession that cannot effectively compete in a high-dps ranged fight with one of their weps, when the range of combat alters, is a pretty significant issue on its own IMO. This weakness is more evident on Ele than any other class.

I'm more interested in the arguments players have for keeping things the way they are now. Based on responses like yours and others, I'll be able to make a better case to the devs.

[ThiBash.5634]

@Dayra.7405 said:My old proposal to this day-1 problem (you cannot switch between long-range and meelee skills while in combat) is:

• you get 2 weapons, but
• you get only the attunements you actually skilled the core-specialization for and you only get conjured weapons (e.g. ice-bow), if you skilled arcane.Of course, after such a change ele needs a new rebalancing.I'm concerned that such a rebalance would be very tricky, because the number of potential combinations would increase exponentially. The idea itself isn't bad though. If it were limited to specific attunements, rather than any combination of choice, it might be more easy to balance.

@Cyrin.1035 said:Being the only profession that cannot effectively compete in a high-dps range fight with one of their weps, when the range of combat alters, is a pretty significant issue on its own IMO. This weakness is more evident on Ele than any other class.

Like Illconceived Was Na.9781 said: elementalist is far from the only one. Mesmer ranged dps is poor, guardian's scepter is easily dodged, engineer's ranged skills get wildly inaccurate at max range, warrior longbow is mostly condition (which an ele can easily cleanse) and the list goes on.

Rangers (and maybe thieves) can be a threat at max range, but that's not so much an ele problem, but a balance thing. Those builds are very effective long range fighters and as a result, lose some other skills like utility or mobility to compensate. Even if you got easy access to staff, the best way to fight those long range builds is still to get into melee range as fast as possible. Take advantage of their range weakness, instead of allowing them to take advantage of yours.

[Cyrin.1035]

Like Illconceived Was Na.9781 said: elementalist is far from the only one. Mesmer ranged dps is poor, guardian's scepter is easily dodged, engineer's ranged skills get wildly inaccurate at max range, warrior longbow is mostly condition (which an ele can easily cleanse) and the list goes on.

Are you seriously saying these other professions are weak at range? Lol! And putting down warrior's bow?!! SMH.

I can tell you love Ele and will defend it to the end. I love Ele as well. But do not deny the sword weaver's greatest current flaw only to justify that flaw with blind love for the Ele.

There is an undeniable issue here with sword weavers. If you want to pretend it doesn't exist or deny whether it needs to be fixed, then please share a clear, objective argument for why this weakness should remain. Favoritism, stubborness, weak alternatives, inexperience, and false solutions are simply not good reasons.

Rangers (and maybe thieves) can be a threat at max range, but that's not so much an ele problem, but a balance thing. Those builds are very effective long range fighters and as a result, lose some other skills like utility or mobility to compensate. Even if you got easy access to staff, the best way to fight those long range builds is still to get into melee range as fast as possible. Take advantage of their range weakness, instead of allowing them to take advantage of yours.

A sword weaver that isn't on the same playing field because of their lack of range is a major problem for that Ele and it's far more than a "balance thing". It's lack of a fundamental ability. (repeating myself... but the point remains true)

How are long range fighters losing utility and mobility? My longbow druid has nearly consistent dodge, stealth, condi cleanse, and swiftness. These "long range fighters" do not have a range issue. Close or far. Ele is phenomenal at range with scepter or staff when they can use them. With staff on Ele you can sufficiently compete long range using an arcane/nuking build. It won't work in every PvP situation, but it will give you a competitive chance vs the chance to catch up to your enemy and hope they are trash.

Every profession can formidably compete with their long range weps. You build to the wep and use them to the effectiveness needed. The issue is that Ele is the only class that can’t use their effective/consistent range weapon when they are in combat with a sword. I'm still waiting for an experienced sword weaver to give a decent argument for why an elite spec wep swap is less efficient and unnecessary compared to limiting the sword weaver to this weakness. Something other than "Because I love Ele and they are perfect as they are."

[Bladestrom.6425]

Re the original point, ele is already swap heavy - we swap stuff a hell of lot. Introducing more swapping is not giving great gameplay, introducing more complex synergies between elements would however be much more interesting and fun, for example fire to earth to water = strong cc called 'tsunami' that knocks enemy back 400 and chills them.

[Cyrin.1035]

@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:Re the original point, ele is already swap heavy - we swap stuff a hell of lot. Introducing more swapping is not giving great gameplay, introducing more complex synergies between elements would however be much more interesting and fun, for example fire to earth to water = strong cc called 'tsunami' that knocks enemy back 400 and chills them.

So add more to quantity, not quality? Introducing more of the same is also not giving great gameplay. We just need to be able to have an effective range option when we bring our sword to battle. An elite spec someone earlier in the thread mentioned that has you swap between two attunements and/or weps vs 4 attunements will fix your "swap a lot" problem and your range problem.

That tsunami skill sounds super awesome though.

[Bladestrom.6425]

i was thinking more that combination between 3 or more elements adds interesting synergy and gameplay, and ultimately its gameplay compleixty that makes things intresting. Range choice is the cost we pay for having a large skill range at hand very quickly, its what differentiates ele from other professions - we have to manage range by manipulating the fight to keep in the range we want rather than vice versa. That's not to say ele doesn't have fundamental issues with ranged fighting in pvp, but I think the answer is skills that force the range is the answer, i.e cc and slows and skills that enforce distance, otherwise we end up like every other profession.

[steki.1478]

Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).
If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.
If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Cyrin.1035 said:I can tell you love Ele and will defend it to the end. I love Ele as well. But do not deny the sword weaver's greatest current flaw only to justify that flaw with blind love for the Ele.

Nobody deny that sword weaver isn't the best way to tackle range fighters, however, nobody can deny either that a kalla/shiro renegade isn't the best way to handle condi spec'ed opponents.

The point is that you always have the choice to spec in order to be able to be strong on a few situations but, in order to balance things there will always be area where you will be less efficient.

This thread wave between the secific case of the weaver and an hypothetic e-spec which would have access to weapon swap. The title of the thread is a bit blurr because if we look at it, it concern the core elementalist and not the weaver specifically.

So what is the real goal of the thread?

• Discussing weapon swap on core?
• Discussing weapon swap on weaver?
• Discussing a futur e-spec with weapon swap available?

My opinion on each of these questions would be:

• Weapon swap on core? No! There is no need to add more readily available skills onto the elementalist and it's futur e-specs.
• Weapon swap on weaver? No! It doesn't need it.
• Weapon swap on a futur e-spec? Why not if it's cleverly done.

[Shadowcat.2680]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

• Weapon swap on a futur e-spec? Why not if it's cleverly done.

My fear is that Anet's implementation of such would be clunky as weaver itself is somewhat clunky, particularly as you go toward main-hands other than sword (scepter relies on fresh air for access to off-hand skills and dagger main-hand just feels awkward). Holosmith for engi is essentially a glorified weapon swap with a resource mechanic attached and it's implementation leaves something to be desired as holos lose access to the toolbelt portion of any elite skill just from speccing into holo.

[Dadnir.5038]

@Shadowcat.2680 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

• Weapon swap on a futur e-spec?
  Why not if it's cleverly done.

My fear is that Anet's implementation of such would be clunky as weaver itself is somewhat clunky, particularly as you go toward main-hands other than sword (scepter relies on fresh air for access to off-hand skills and dagger main-hand just feels awkward). Holosmith for engi is essentially a glorified weapon swap with a resource mechanic attached and it's implementation leaves something to be desired as holos lose access to the toolbelt portion of any elite skill just from speccing into holo.

That's why I attach the condition that it must be cleverly done :) . Honnestly I'd prefer to see a shroud like skill like with druid or holosmith instead of a weapon swap. A kind of arcane form.

[Cyrin.1035]

@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:i was thinking more that combination between 3 or more elements adds interesting synergy and gameplay, and ultimately its gameplay compleixty that makes things intresting. Range choice is the cost we pay for having a large skill range at hand very quickly, its what differentiates ele from other professions - we have to manage range by manipulating the fight to keep in the range we want rather than vice versa. That's not to say ele doesn't have fundamental issues with ranged fighting in pvp, but I think the answer is skills that force the range is the answer, i.e cc and slows and skills that enforce distance,

Yes, well, while sword weavers are enjoying their interesting skills and hoping they can somehow "force the range", my ranger will be picking each of you off and upping my score. Thx for the points :p

otherwise we end up like every other profession.

You mean able to survive and compete in any range situation? Oh we can't have that now can we? And versatility is supposed to be a staple of the Ele-type class... I guess they meant number of skills to use, not versatility in the use of skills.

[Cyrin.1035]

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Cyrin.1035 said:I can tell you love Ele and will defend it to the end. I love Ele as well. But do not deny the sword weaver's greatest current flaw only to justify that flaw with blind love for the Ele.

Nobody deny that

sword

weaver isn't the best way to tackle range fighters, however, nobody can deny either that a kalla/shiro renegade isn't the best way to handle condi spec'ed opponents.

The point is that you always have the

choice

to spec in order to be able to be strong on a few situations but, in order to balance things there will always be area where you will be less efficient.

This thread wave between the secific case of the weaver and an hypothetic e-spec which would have access to weapon swap. The title of the thread is a bit blurr because if we look at it, it concern the core elementalist and not the weaver specifically.

So what is the real goal of the thread?

• Discussing weapon swap on core?
• Discussing weapon swap on weaver?
• Discussing a futur e-spec with weapon swap available?

My opinion on each of these questions would be:

• Weapon swap on core?
  No! There is no need to add more readily available skills onto the elementalist and it's futur e-specs.
• Weapon swap on weaver?
  No! It doesn't
  need
  it.
• Weapon swap on a futur e-spec?
  Why not if it's cleverly done.

That's naturally how discussions evolve. The original question was meant to be broad to expand thinking to the entire class in order to generate both the opinions and solutions that it has. From those who are for or against the idea to those who have come up with a potential solution for making wep swap possible only in an elite spec, in which I also agree with.

The goal is all of those goals you listed and more. I've found my idea for a solution and have tested and reaffirmed my opinion for the class as others have as well, whether for or against wep swap for Ele.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Cyrin.1035 said:

@"vesica tempestas.1563" said:i was thinking more that combination between 3 or more elements adds interesting synergy and gameplay, and ultimately its gameplay compleixty that makes things intresting. Range choice is the cost we pay for having a large skill range at hand very quickly, its what differentiates ele from other professions - we have to manage range by manipulating the fight to keep in the range we want rather than vice versa. That's not to say ele doesn't have fundamental issues with ranged fighting in pvp, but I think the answer is skills that force the range is the answer, i.e cc and slows and skills that enforce distance,

Yes, well, while sword weavers are enjoying their interesting skills and hoping they can somehow "force the range", my ranger will be picking each of you off and upping my score. Thx for the points :p

otherwise we end up like every other profession.

You mean able to survive and compete in any range situation? Oh we can't have that now can we? And versatility is supposed to be a staple of the Ele-type class... I guess they meant number of skills to use, not versatility in the use of skills.

well obviously Weaver is a melee bruiser, so they want skills to reduce distance aka "skills to reduce the range" if you want to wrap stuff in quotes. Ranged like sceptre wants the latter i.e "force the range" and have defenses, cc or better burst.

[Jski.6180]

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Jski.6180 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

sword/dagger is melee, so you need gap closers and sustain. Sceptre/staff is the opposite and need gap maintainers and ranged defenses (like reflect, wall of stuff etc)

[Dadnir.5038]

@Cyrin.1035 said:

@Dadnir.5038 said:

@Cyrin.1035 said:I can tell you love Ele and will defend it to the end. I love Ele as well. But do not deny the sword weaver's greatest current flaw only to justify that flaw with blind love for the Ele.

Nobody deny that

sword

weaver isn't the best way to tackle range fighters, however, nobody can deny either that a kalla/shiro renegade isn't the best way to handle condi spec'ed opponents.

The point is that you always have the

choice

to spec in order to be able to be strong on a few situations but, in order to balance things there will always be area where you will be less efficient.

This thread wave between the secific case of the weaver and an hypothetic e-spec which would have access to weapon swap. The title of the thread is a bit blurr because if we look at it, it concern the core elementalist and not the weaver specifically.

So what is the real goal of the thread?

• Discussing weapon swap on core?
• Discussing weapon swap on weaver?
• Discussing a futur e-spec with weapon swap available?

My opinion on each of these questions would be:

• Weapon swap on core?
  No! There is no need to add more readily available skills onto the elementalist and it's futur e-specs.
• Weapon swap on weaver?
  No! It doesn't
  need
  it.
• Weapon swap on a futur e-spec?
  Why not if it's cleverly done.

That's naturally how discussions evolve. The original question was meant to be broad to expand thinking to the entire class in order to generate both the opinions and solutions that it has. From those who are for or against the idea to those who have come up with a potential solution for making wep swap possible only in an elite spec, in which I also agree with.

The goal is all of those goals you listed and more. I've found my idea for a solution and have tested and reaffirmed my opinion for the class as others have as well, whether for or against wep swap for Ele.

Ok, I wanted to be sure because you tend to insist on sword weaver specifically in your arguments. It's good to let the discussion expand but sometime it's also good to recenter the subject.

[Leo Schrodingers Cat.2497]

@Aetatis.5418 said:

@Eddbopkins.2630 said:@Aetatis.5418Thank you.....its an idea i always had when i 1st started to play ele. Mainly because of sigil usage. Is why i came up with it....because we as eles only have 2 weapons while all other classes get 4, we are stuck with only 2 sigils in total while the rest of the games classes can use up to 4.

engineer got the same problem.both professions are stuck with 2 sigils. which is a big drawback imo.i cant combine different sigils. e.g. i dont even think about using stacking sigils on those two professions, because it "blocks" one sigil spot all the time.

so adding a weapon swap and doing 2 attunements per weapon sounds "unique". personally... good enough of an idea (!) for the next e-spec

Really... only warrior and Guardian (I think) uses their sigils regularly.

[ThiBash.5634]

@Cyrin.1035 said:Are you seriously saying these other professions are weak at range? Lol! And putting down warrior's bow?!! SMH.Yes, I am. Have you tried hitting a moving target with grenade kit or mortar at 1200 range? Apart from that, all that engineer has with 1200 range are rifle or elixir gun's weak auto attacks. Mesmer greatsword has 1200, but its auto becomes a lot weaker if you close in. And as for the warrior, its longbow is powerful, but it too becomes more reliable at shorter ranges. Not that I called it weak, I only mentioned that it was condition based and that eles are good at removing conditions.

Most ranged fighters are better off at shorter than longer ranges.

@Cyrin.1035 said:How are long range fighters losing utility and mobility? My longbow druid has nearly consistent dodge, stealth, condi cleanse, and swiftness. These "long range fighters" do not have a range issue. Close or far.The build you describe has very low melee damage. The only skill that can deal significant damage in melee is rapid fire, but all the other skills do virtually nothing. There's also little multi-target damage, no stability except for your elite and very little cc if your immobilizes don't land. Druids have pets of course, but their AI is easily outplayed, lowering your potential damage even further. And where druid has 1 invulnerability skill, elementalist has multiple.

@Cyrin.1035 said:There is an undeniable issue here with sword weavers. If you want to pretend it doesn't exist or deny whether it needs to be fixed, then please share a clear, objective argument for why this weakness should remain.

Like I said before, ele has plenty of ranged stuns, ranged snares, strong gap closers, and projectile defense. They have free utility skills on their weapons: few to no other professions have that. Not to mention a few invulnerabilities that you can use while getting into melee range. Even if you ignore all that ele's utilities can provide and focus primarily on weaver sword, there's Flame Uprising, Riptide (with reverse camera trick), Polaric Leap and Natural Frenzy.

Finally, I'd like to refer to ArenaNet's past statement that not every build is intended to be played in every game mode with 100% effectiveness. It could very well be that sword weaver is limited to being a PvE-only build. It may actually be an intentional design, given the weaver's heavy focus on dps and short-ranged group stacking, that is common in fractals and raids these days.

In my humble opinion, your changes would ruin that which makes the profession unique and fun to play. Your changes would turn it into a boring warrior or ranger clone, with very limited scope and utilities, for a problem that I haven't ever experienced in all my years of playing elementalist. If you'd rather have weaponswap, there are 7 other professions to choose from.

[Jski.6180]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

sword/dagger is melee, so you need gap closers and sustain. Sceptre/staff is the opposite and need gap maintainers and ranged defenses (like reflect, wall of stuff etc)

But ele is not a melee class that the problem its the opposite of a melee class. You could call it a true mages class that you do not see any where else in the game. By making a wepon set melee only for a true mages class your effectually making a dead build unless you give up your ability as a mages and just become another war like class. The thing is with out swap or atument variation of ranged skills as an ele you are less of a mages then a war class who should not be seen as a mages by any means due to hit higher hp / def.

That the thing about GW2 there is no pure ranged wepon all of the ranged attks work in melee just as well at ranged so scepter and staff are both ranged wepon and melee weapons. We find anty projectile effects working on melee attks from both dagger and sword meaning projectiles not a ranged only effect.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

sword/dagger is melee, so you need gap closers and sustain. Sceptre/staff is the opposite and need gap maintainers and ranged defenses (like reflect, wall of stuff etc)

But ele is not a melee class that the problem its the opposite of a melee class. You could call it a true mages class that you do not see any where else in the game. By making a wepon set melee only for a true mages class your effectually making a dead build unless you give up your ability as a mages and just become another war like class. The thing is with out swap or atument variation of ranged skills as an ele you are less of a mages then a war class who should not be seen as a mages by any means due to hit higher hp / def.

That the thing about GW2 there is no pure ranged weapon all of the ranged attks work in melee just as well at ranged so scepter and staff are both ranged wepon and melee weapons. We find anty projectile effects working on melee attks from both dagger and sword meaning projectiles not a ranged only effect.

Personally i don't think ele should have a melee build either, doesn't fit in with flavour, but that's a different argument for a different discussion, However weaver sword/dagger is in fact designed to be a bruiser build, and furthermore it is the only competitive pvp build, awful though it is. Staff and Sceptre are not in fact designed for close combat, people confuse spamming aoe with impunity because there's a meat shied in front of them with designed strengths and weaknesses. Staff and Scepter are designed for range, dagger and sword are not.

[Jski.6180]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

sword/dagger is melee, so you need gap closers and sustain. Sceptre/staff is the opposite and need gap maintainers and ranged defenses (like reflect, wall of stuff etc)

But ele is not a melee class that the problem its the opposite of a melee class. You could call it a true mages class that you do not see any where else in the game. By making a wepon set melee only for a true mages class your effectually making a dead build unless you give up your ability as a mages and just become another war like class. The thing is with out swap or atument variation of ranged skills as an ele you are less of a mages then a war class who should not be seen as a mages by any means due to hit higher hp / def.

That the thing about GW2 there is no pure ranged weapon all of the ranged attks work in melee just as well at ranged so scepter and staff are both ranged wepon and melee weapons. We find anty projectile effects working on melee attks from both dagger and sword meaning projectiles not a ranged only effect.

Personally i don't think ele should have a melee build either, doesn't fit in with flavour, but that's a different argument for a different discussion, However weaver sword/dagger is in fact designed to be a bruiser build, and furthermore it is the only competitive pvp build, awful though it is. Staff and Sceptre are not in fact designed for close combat, people confuse spamming aoe with impunity because there's a meat shied in front of them with designed strengths and weaknesses. Staff and Scepter are designed for range, dagger and sword are not.

The thing about "bruiser builds" is they come with something say a bruiser reaper comes with boon strip say a bruiser gurd build comes with boon support or lots of hard cc weaver realty dose not have this at best they have to put every thing that "come with the something" is just keeping them self alive. The only uiquet effect that ele has when you run melee dagger of sword is keeping it self alive. At least when you run scpter or staff you have real cc and dmg tools at the same time keeping high staying power.

Weaver is the dmg class line not a bruiser line tempest was the bruiser line that came with support. The fact that weaver got a melee wepon as a class is so miss match and could be seen as the community wanted a sword to it was thrown on the class with out any though of what forcing a mages dmg line into melee.

Ele is designed for ranged and burst dmg not melee and sustane dmg. Dagger is the def wepon and sword is the def wepon +1. The ele class and its elite spec are a complete mess and its all compounded by being locked into a melee or ranged only wepon set.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

sword/dagger is melee, so you need gap closers and sustain. Sceptre/staff is the opposite and need gap maintainers and ranged defenses (like reflect, wall of stuff etc)

But ele is not a melee class that the problem its the opposite of a melee class. You could call it a true mages class that you do not see any where else in the game. By making a wepon set melee only for a true mages class your effectually making a dead build unless you give up your ability as a mages and just become another war like class. The thing is with out swap or atument variation of ranged skills as an ele you are less of a mages then a war class who should not be seen as a mages by any means due to hit higher hp / def.

That the thing about GW2 there is no pure ranged weapon all of the ranged attks work in melee just as well at ranged so scepter and staff are both ranged wepon and melee weapons. We find anty projectile effects working on melee attks from both dagger and sword meaning projectiles not a ranged only effect.

Personally i don't think ele should have a melee build either, doesn't fit in with flavour, but that's a different argument for a different discussion, However weaver sword/dagger is in fact designed to be a bruiser build, and furthermore it is the only competitive pvp build, awful though it is. Staff and Sceptre are not in fact designed for close combat, people confuse spamming aoe with impunity because there's a meat shied in front of them with designed strengths and weaknesses. Staff and Scepter are designed for range, dagger and sword are not.

The thing about "bruiser builds" is they come with something say a bruiser reaper comes with boon strip say a bruiser gurd build comes with boon support or lots of hard cc weaver realty dose not have this at best they have to put every thing that "come with the something" is just keeping them self alive. The only uiquet effect that ele has when you run melee dagger of sword is keeping it self alive. At least when you run scpter or staff you have real cc and dmg tools at the same time keeping high staying power.

Weaver is the dmg class line not a bruiser line tempest was the bruiser line that came with support. The fact that weaver got a melee wepon as a class is so miss match and could be seen as the community wanted a sword to it was thrown on the class with out any though of what forcing a mages dmg line into melee.

Ele is designed for ranged and burst dmg not melee and sustane dmg. Dagger is the def wepon and sword is the def wepon +1. The ele class and its elite spec are a complete mess and its all compounded by being locked into a melee or ranged only wepon set.

um sword dagger is a very very effective bruiser, play it a lot myself both in spvp and as a roaming build in wvw. As i say i prefer ele to be pure ranged, but fact is sword/dagger is bruiser (130 yards range for their key attacks is the obvious giveaway)

[Jski.6180]

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

sword/dagger is melee, so you need gap closers and sustain. Sceptre/staff is the opposite and need gap maintainers and ranged defenses (like reflect, wall of stuff etc)

But ele is not a melee class that the problem its the opposite of a melee class. You could call it a true mages class that you do not see any where else in the game. By making a wepon set melee only for a true mages class your effectually making a dead build unless you give up your ability as a mages and just become another war like class. The thing is with out swap or atument variation of ranged skills as an ele you are less of a mages then a war class who should not be seen as a mages by any means due to hit higher hp / def.

That the thing about GW2 there is no pure ranged weapon all of the ranged attks work in melee just as well at ranged so scepter and staff are both ranged wepon and melee weapons. We find anty projectile effects working on melee attks from both dagger and sword meaning projectiles not a ranged only effect.

Personally i don't think ele should have a melee build either, doesn't fit in with flavour, but that's a different argument for a different discussion, However weaver sword/dagger is in fact designed to be a bruiser build, and furthermore it is the only competitive pvp build, awful though it is. Staff and Sceptre are not in fact designed for close combat, people confuse spamming aoe with impunity because there's a meat shied in front of them with designed strengths and weaknesses. Staff and Scepter are designed for range, dagger and sword are not.

The thing about "bruiser builds" is they come with something say a bruiser reaper comes with boon strip say a bruiser gurd build comes with boon support or lots of hard cc weaver realty dose not have this at best they have to put every thing that "come with the something" is just keeping them self alive. The only uiquet effect that ele has when you run melee dagger of sword is keeping it self alive. At least when you run scpter or staff you have real cc and dmg tools at the same time keeping high staying power.

Weaver is the dmg class line not a bruiser line tempest was the bruiser line that came with support. The fact that weaver got a melee wepon as a class is so miss match and could be seen as the community wanted a sword to it was thrown on the class with out any though of what forcing a mages dmg line into melee.

Ele is designed for ranged and burst dmg not melee and sustane dmg. Dagger is the def wepon and sword is the def wepon +1. The ele class and its elite spec are a complete mess and its all compounded by being locked into a melee or ranged only wepon set.

um sword dagger is a very very effective bruiser, play it a lot myself both in spvp and as a roaming build in wvw. As i say i prefer ele to be pure ranged, but fact is sword/dagger is bruiser (130 yards range for their key attacks is the obvious giveaway)

I am not saying sword is a non bruiser wepon nor would i say dagger is not a bruiser wepon too its just weaver is not a bruiser class tempest is and if you put sword on the tempest class it would be significantly better then weaver could ever do. I am saying sword simply is replacing dagger for the def main hand wepon. Being such there is spaces for dagger to be a a bit more of a cc wepon or even fixable ranged melee wepon.

[Bladestrom.6425]

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@vesica tempestas.1563 said:

@Jski.6180 said:

@"steki.1478" said:Leaving pve aside since you can swap weapon depending on encounter (open world) and just stack on boss on any weapon (instanced group content).

Assuming you have 4 attunements and a weapon swap. You're playing sword weaver (most likely water/arcane build) in pvp, suddenly a soulbeast appears and starts shooting from max range. What do you do with weapon swap?

If you had staff, sb will just kill you while you start casting literally any non fire 4 skill (you're definitely not gonna be in full earth).

If you had scepter, you still wouldn't be able to do much since it requires FA to be useful.

If you had dagger, you could use earth 2 deflect, but you're still melee.

The correct solution to this problem would be using focus projectile hate skills or LoS management.

Most ranged builds are focused on quickly sniping targets, having ranged weapon to "counter" that isnt gonna help you, you need a proper defense. Even if you survive that burst, swapping to scepter (since staff cant do literally anything) requires dedicated traits.

Now let's assume that you play x/air weaver with scepter and sword (off hand not important). Both weapons with such build in current implementation are playing around 1-shotting target and trying to disengage because you wont survive anything after your combo since they are glass cannon. If you have access to both weapons and FA, you can do your scepter burst, swap to sword and use its air burst which basically guarantees you a kill and lets you blink out.

There's just no reason for ele to have weapon swap. If you have problems with ranged enemies, take reflects, blink and use gap closers to get to them. If they still run away then just dont bother with them since your class is not capable of countering enemy class (let a thief/warr/mesmer/rev handle it). Some builds just have to be countered in certain ways, you cant expect to win every single matchup.

I just want the sword and dagger have some type of viable ranged on them or at least ranged cc that lets you get in to do dmg. I would not mind seeing melee or near melee for scepter and staff as well.

I always though air and water was the ranged atuments types and earth fire are the melee but it dose not have to be that way for all the weapons but that all the atuments are very much the same attk types (ranged/melee) of the wepon type is disappointing from a "magic" point of view.

sword/dagger is melee, so you need gap closers and sustain. Sceptre/staff is the opposite and need gap maintainers and ranged defenses (like reflect, wall of stuff etc)

But ele is not a melee class that the problem its the opposite of a melee class. You could call it a true mages class that you do not see any where else in the game. By making a wepon set melee only for a true mages class your effectually making a dead build unless you give up your ability as a mages and just become another war like class. The thing is with out swap or atument variation of ranged skills as an ele you are less of a mages then a war class who should not be seen as a mages by any means due to hit higher hp / def.

That the thing about GW2 there is no pure ranged weapon all of the ranged attks work in melee just as well at ranged so scepter and staff are both ranged wepon and melee weapons. We find anty projectile effects working on melee attks from both dagger and sword meaning projectiles not a ranged only effect.

Personally i don't think ele should have a melee build either, doesn't fit in with flavour, but that's a different argument for a different discussion, However weaver sword/dagger is in fact designed to be a bruiser build, and furthermore it is the only competitive pvp build, awful though it is. Staff and Sceptre are not in fact designed for close combat, people confuse spamming aoe with impunity because there's a meat shied in front of them with designed strengths and weaknesses. Staff and Scepter are designed for range, dagger and sword are not.

The thing about "bruiser builds" is they come with something say a bruiser reaper comes with boon strip say a bruiser gurd build comes with boon support or lots of hard cc weaver realty dose not have this at best they have to put every thing that "come with the something" is just keeping them self alive. The only uiquet effect that ele has when you run melee dagger of sword is keeping it self alive. At least when you run scpter or staff you have real cc and dmg tools at the same time keeping high staying power.

Weaver is the dmg class line not a bruiser line tempest was the bruiser line that came with support. The fact that weaver got a melee wepon as a class is so miss match and could be seen as the community wanted a sword to it was thrown on the class with out any though of what forcing a mages dmg line into melee.

Ele is designed for ranged and burst dmg not melee and sustane dmg. Dagger is the def wepon and sword is the def wepon +1. The ele class and its elite spec are a complete mess and its all compounded by being locked into a melee or ranged only wepon set.

um sword dagger is a very very effective bruiser, play it a lot myself both in spvp and as a roaming build in wvw. As i say i prefer ele to be pure ranged, but fact is sword/dagger is bruiser (130 yards range for their key attacks is the obvious giveaway)

I am not saying sword is a non bruiser wepon nor would i say dagger is not a bruiser wepon too its just weaver is not a bruiser class tempest is and if you put sword on the tempest class it would be significantly better then weaver could ever do. I am saying sword simply is replacing dagger for the def main hand wepon. Being such there is spaces for dagger to be a a bit more of a cc wepon or even fixable ranged melee wepon.

tempest is not a bruiser class, never has been, its an aoe support class/ potential area control class (and not a very good one at the moment because the way shouts have been devalued) Agree however that sword has somewhat replaced the identify of dagger, which has become lost and irrelevant. Weapon identity is and should be linked to range (that's intuitive), otherwise it just becomes a graphical asset where weapons don't have flavor or identity. For me:

Staff : big range, big aoe, fragile, pve.Sceptre: 900 range, fragile but strong cc and projectile defenseSword: should be 400 range, good sustain and cc/ gap closers to manage rangeDagger: bruiser, super high mobility, 200 (edit) range, high sustain(note dagger and sword are the other way around from a range perspective)

Thats intuitive and offers a genuine range of gameplay options that makes sense (3 of them is ranged in effect)